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Chris TheNinjaPirate
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:36:00 -
[1]
ok so everyone says the blasters are now broken. the tech 2 ammo sucks so bad that you can't kill anyone without running out of cap first.
so who is killing you?
you get into your megathron or your hyperion... you go out and fight on SISI.
according to minmatar, the tempest sucks, the maelstrom sucks
according to the amarr, everything they have sucks
according to the caldari, t2 torp nerf made the raven useless.
so who is winning these fights? someone is winning the fights. if gallente is the loser, who the hell is the winner?
please tell me. maybe this will get people thinking. can you kill a well set up raven with a hyperion? can you kill a well set up maelstrom with a hyperion? NO? YES?
which is it?
people have sadi time and time again that the blasters ships are now useless. but they never say what killed htem. they never say "this is overpowered compared to the hyperion". they ALWAYS JUST say "omgomgomgogomg the hyperion suxxorz".
so which is it? what is beating the hyperion? or is everything just fine and some ppl are sobbing for attention?
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:41:00 -
[2]
I'll go with the last sentence in you post.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
Pinky Denmark
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:46:00 -
[3]
T2 torp nerf won't obsolete the raven because T2 cruise has been nerfed too I think all ships have their pro's and con's And regarding Blasters they cannot be as bad as they have been...
There's just a lot of guys whining and since Kali was balanced a lot a few days ago most things have to be tested again... I actually like the new balance though I cannot really tell if minmatar and amarr tier 3 BS and tier BC is good or not.
I do not belive Gallente or Caldari have much to complain about, and I seen lots of amarr and minmatar ships being used well... All races have some bad stuff!!
Pinky
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Chris TheNinjaPirate
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 08:51:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Chris TheNinjaPirate on 27/11/2006 08:55:51 i didnt mean this thread to be a flamefest at the people who are angry about blasters. i kind of want them to come forward and say what EXACTLY is wrong with blasters, like what is beating them and why it shouldn't beat them..
sort of analyze the situations they should win and the situations where they should not win.
also i would like to add: it looks like minmatar tech 2 ammo got nerfed pretty badly too. perhaps ccp wants us to go back to using tech 1 ammo as general purpose engagements. therefore saying "gallente now have to use antimatter" is misleading. on the same token, minmatar have to use emp and fusion. maybe we are all in the same boat, and it will take some time to figure out what is going on. tech 2 ammo will be used for specialized operations now.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:26:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate ok so everyone says the blasters are now broken. the tech 2 ammo sucks so bad that you can't kill anyone without running out of cap first.
so who is killing you?
you get into your megathron or your hyperion... you go out and fight on SISI.
according to minmatar, the tempest sucks, the maelstrom sucks
according to the amarr, everything they have sucks
according to the caldari, t2 torp nerf made the raven useless.
so who is winning these fights? someone is winning the fights. if gallente is the loser, who the hell is the winner?
please tell me. maybe this will get people thinking. can you kill a well set up raven with a hyperion? can you kill a well set up maelstrom with a hyperion? NO? YES?
which is it?
people have sadi time and time again that the blasters ships are now useless. but they never say what killed htem. they never say "this is overpowered compared to the hyperion". they ALWAYS JUST say "omgomgomgogomg the hyperion suxxorz".
so which is it? what is beating the hyperion? or is everything just fine and some ppl are sobbing for attention?
I'll answer you (without flaming etc.).
Rokhs with 4x nos and 4x torps. Maelstroms with 4x nos, 4x ACs and a huge T2 shield tank. Abaddons with T2 heavy pulse and 3x plates, 4x nos. Ravens with T2 torp launchers, T1 ammo and heavy nos. Tempests with plates, ACs and nos.
The Abaddon has been changed/fixed. The Maelstrom has been awesome the whole time (26k grid, wtf?). The Rokh is awesome. All the T1 non cap weapon using ships got a huge buff with the cap buff (since how they have 25% more cap to tank with, and their still doing the same DPS).
The Raven with 25% more cap to tank with is just great. The Caldari/Minmatar ships can so a 'sit and wait' attrition strategy even better now due to the unilateral cap increase for all ships. The cap increase still didn't keep up with the cap needs of blaster/laser ships.
The Hyperion hasn't been changed like the Abaddon has. It still needs more cap, faster recharge, or more DPS.
25% more HP doesn't mean 25% longer battles. It means 50-75% longer battles due to the HP buffer allowing more rep cycles and more cap use. The cap buff for the Hype hasn't kept pace with the extended fighting time.
Compounding this problem is a 6.66% damage reduction to T2 ammo. With Void this is a very large raw damage reduction because it's magnified that much more in a DPS dependant setup. Blaster ships always rode a fine line. You either won by a landslide or died horribly. Now that fine balance has been tipped too far and no longer can a blaster pilot depend on his DPS for a clear concise victory, and due to the constant high cap usage of blasters can't use them in a slow fight of attrition.
Personally I think that if everything at this point was just left alone and Void was given it's DPS back, everything would be fine. The HP boost was plenty. The T2 ammo nerf, both long/short range wasn't needed IMO.
Because I said so...
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Chris TheNinjaPirate
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:34:00 -
[6]
Originally by: murder one
I'll answer you (without flaming etc.).
tyvm!! your discussion was exactly what i was looking for.
Quote: Rokhs with 4x nos and 4x torps. Maelstroms with 4x nos, 4x ACs and a huge T2 shield tank. Abaddons with T2 heavy pulse and 3x plates, 4x nos. Ravens with T2 torp launchers, T1 ammo and heavy nos. Tempests with plates, ACs and nos.
nosferatu is the enemy here, then. nos is overpowered. in order to rebalance blaster ships, nos is required - or is nos now a requirement on blaster ships? do you have to fit 3 nos on your blaster ship now?
i can see where this is buggered up though. i saw one post where a player simply put "that isnt how gallent blaster ships are supposed to fight". that seems to be true to me. nos+tank is not how blaster ships are supposed to fight.
but what else can you do???
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:35:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate Edited by: Chris TheNinjaPirate on 27/11/2006 08:55:51 i didnt mean this thread to be a flamefest at the people who are angry about blasters. i kind of want them to come forward and say what EXACTLY is wrong with blasters, like what is beating them and why it shouldn't beat them..
sort of analyze the situations they should win and the situations where they should not win.
also i would like to add: it looks like minmatar tech 2 ammo got nerfed pretty badly too. perhaps ccp wants us to go back to using tech 1 ammo as general purpose engagements. therefore saying "gallente now have to use antimatter" is misleading. on the same token, minmatar have to use emp and fusion. maybe we are all in the same boat, and it will take some time to figure out what is going on. tech 2 ammo will be used for specialized operations now.
One point I'd like to make very specific: If I'm within 5-10km of you with my Hyperion and I'm in a 1v1 situation with another BS, I expect to kill that BS 95% of the time, given a straight up fight, just because I can break their tank well before they break mine, or I run out of cap. Fighting another Hyperion excluded of course, because then since it's literally an even match, it could be anyone's guess.
Now when you factor in ECM etc. it gets a little more fuzzy etc., but the point still stands: the Hype is supposed to be the end all in blaster ships, and what blaster ships do is kill quickly at close range. Now it can't do that. Frankly we (blaster ship users) don't want anything unreasonable or overpowered. What we want are our ships back. After Kali everyone else will still have their ships and they will work how they always worked. Blasterthron/Hype pilots will not.
Everyone else replies "oh boohoo, adapt blah blah blah." The Drake got nerfed and holy sh#t look out, the forums exploded with Caldari whiners until it got a launcher back. I like that it got it's launcher back. I don't like to see mediocre ships of any sort. I hope the Hurricane gets it's 7th turret back. But the watering down of all blaster/laser ships in the game is just total crap.
We don't want out ships to be *better* than they were in RMR, we want them back at the same level as before. That's it.
Because I said so...
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Chris TheNinjaPirate
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:44:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Chris TheNinjaPirate on 27/11/2006 09:47:18
Originally by: murder one One point I'd like to make very specific: If I'm within 5-10km of you with my Hyperion and I'm in a 1v1 situation with another BS, I expect to kill that BS 95% of the time, given a straight up fight, just because I can break their tank well before they break mine, or I run out of cap.
so that is what you expect - but you are finding that it NOT the case... so as the game is now when you get within 5-10km of the enemy BS, you end up losing most/half of the time?
thank you for discussing, not flaming - that is what this community needs. discussion, so the devs take us seriously. not crying, so that the devs put us to bed.
Quote: And again, fitting nos myself isn't the answer, and nor should it be. Nos should be something that is an added bonus to your ship fitting, not a god**** requirement for every ship fit like it is now.
STRONGLY AGREE.
how are dominixes in this new patch? i honestly have not heard anyone talk about them. are they overpowered now? are they balanced about where they should be? do they suck badly?
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 09:44:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate
Originally by: murder one
I'll answer you (without flaming etc.).
tyvm!! your discussion was exactly what i was looking for.
Quote: Rokhs with 4x nos and 4x torps. Maelstroms with 4x nos, 4x ACs and a huge T2 shield tank. Abaddons with T2 heavy pulse and 3x plates, 4x nos. Ravens with T2 torp launchers, T1 ammo and heavy nos. Tempests with plates, ACs and nos.
nosferatu is the enemy here, then. nos is overpowered. in order to rebalance blaster ships, nos is required - or is nos now a requirement on blaster ships? do you have to fit 3 nos on your blaster ship now?
i can see where this is buggered up though. i saw one post where a player simply put "that isnt how gallent blaster ships are supposed to fight". that seems to be true to me. nos+tank is not how blaster ships are supposed to fight.
but what else can you do???
Nos doesn't fix things. The key point here is DPS/cap/tank efficiency. If I fit 4x nos on my ship, and my guns still use a lot of cap (which they do) and the other guy fits a ***massive*** tank on his ship (Rokh for instance, even with a full PVP tackling setup in the mids you can still get a stupid good tank with the Rokh) he fits 4x nos and 4x torp launchers that use zero cap.
Now we're tied for nos, tied for tank (pretty much), but his torps still don't use cap. I still die. Just takes a bit longer. Same thing for a Maelstrom: 4x nos, 4x guns that use no cap, big tank, vs. my 4x nos, 4x guns that require a ton of cap, and relatively good tank (I say ok-good tank on the Hype compared to the Mael because the ACs on the Mael take very little grid and it has 26K+ grid base, so you have TONS of grid/cpu to play with for your tank).
Again I still end up dead. The more people that come to the fight the worse it gets because then I have 8 or 12 or 16 nos on me. That's insta cap death, my guns go offline, my active tank goes offline, and I'm dead in literally seconds.
I want enough DPS with 8 guns and 3x damage mods that I can break a tank of another BS before I can be nossed dry. Increase the DPS, reduce nos or think of something else to fix this. I just offered two perfectly viable ways to help the situation.
And again, fitting nos myself isn't the answer, and nor should it be. Nos should be something that is an added bonus to your ship fitting, not a god**** requirement for every ship fit like it is now.
But nos isn't the main issue here. Lack of DPS is.
Because I said so...
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Chris TheNinjaPirate
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:03:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Chris TheNinjaPirate on 27/11/2006 10:09:55 here is another thing to think about:
are the gallente blaster ships so broken now that it is not worth (EDIT) flying??
i am afraid that if they are not broken enough to not fly, they will never get fixed. to the devs, it will become like the typhoon: it is good enough to fly for certain things. same with the tempest. it is a good enough ship, and so it never gets the fixes it deserves.
where do the hyperion and megathron stand now? are they so broken that it isn't worth it? or is it good enough, and will suffice for certain uses... and when you want to solo PVP, you will just undock your dominix?
if gallente people want their ships fixed because they are so bad, they will have to be unified. NO flying of the megathron or hyperion because they suck so bad. NONE whatsoever. griping won't help as much as unified effort to demonstrate a problematic paradigm.
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Pattern Clarc
The Priory
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:11:00 -
[11]
mutlispecs still jamm
nos is more powerfull than ever
and active tanks are king.
through in a cyrstal implant and even two gank blaster hyperions can't tank out a tank rokh, without both running out of cap.
this is a disgrace. Sig removed lacks EVE content, email [email protected] if you have any questions - Xorus |
infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.27 10:16:00 -
[12]
Well I can answer your question about the Hyperion. I'll leave explanations of why the other ships suck to more qualified pilots of their respective races.
The problem with the Hyperion is that like all blaster ships in Kali, it can be tanked for long enough so that is starts to have serious cap issues. Then the oppsing ship just plays the attrition game. Ships that have capless weapons and ESPECIALLY those packing 2 or 3 nos are extreeeeeeemely good at doing this. There is just no way to counter this, except trying to beat them at their own game. Sorry, but I don't want eve combat to turn into whoever can suck more cap wins. I don't want gunnery and missile skillpoints to become meaningless to something cheap like nos. Sadly, Kali plays out to this scenario. Tanking is king, and the only viable way to beat someone in a 1v1 that is running a tank/nos setup is to fit the same setup yourself and hope your tanking skills or the small amount of dps you put out is greater than the enemy. Using a full rack of guns and making use of all your gunnery sp's is just futile.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate Edited by: Chris TheNinjaPirate on 27/11/2006 10:09:55 here is another thing to think about:
are the gallente blaster ships so broken now that it is not worth (EDIT) flying??
i am afraid that if they are not broken enough to not fly, they will never get fixed. to the devs, it will become like the typhoon: it is good enough to fly for certain things. same with the tempest. it is a good enough ship, and so it never gets the fixes it deserves.
where do the hyperion and megathron stand now? are they so broken that it isn't worth it? or is it good enough, and will suffice for certain uses... and when you want to solo PVP, you will just undock your dominix?
if gallente people want their ships fixed because they are so bad, they will have to be unified. NO flying of the megathron or hyperion because they suck so bad. NONE whatsoever. griping won't help as much as unified effort to demonstrate a problematic paradigm.
I can fly Minmatar and Gallente BS with my main. I can undock in any of 6 battleships now. I'm not going to be flying the Hype or the Mega due to the blaster issues. Won't be flying the Domi after Kali because of the drone HP issues, and with ECM nerfed a bit it won't be anywhere near as powerful as it once was.
I hate the looks of the Tempest and Typhoon, but I will probably fly a nanophoon with ECM burst. Annoying and cheap, but it's nearly unbeatable. The Maelstrom is also a great choice, so I'll probably fly an uber tanked AC Mael for most PVP, with lots of nos.
But frankly I don't see myself flying BSs that much after Kali. Warp to 0km will pretty much erase non consensual combat for the most part- no more killing at gates, no more sniping, no more belt killing due to insta docking etc. So I'm left with training up Recons and making sure I'm within scram range so I can lock down my target. Only problem are the Caldari guys with FoF missiles, since they completely ignore ECM/Damps. Overpowered? I think so...
Because I said so...
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Isyel
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:05:00 -
[14]
What this teaches us is...
NOS is an I-win button (i refuse to mount it, i hate it) ECM is still an I-win button (i fit it since i actually want to survive now and then, yet i still hate it)
That's it. Beware the Nos n missile rokh people, beware. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Might As well Train Another Race
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C0yote
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:41:00 -
[15]
Edited by: C0yote on 27/11/2006 11:42:30 The problem with blasters is that they bring you into NOS range.
I always seem to fit rails rather than blasters on all my ships just to be able to stay outside NOS range as much as possible.
And like others here I really hate having to fit NOS just to be able to break even.
I like the tanking changes and HP changes its just either NOS needs to be changed - a anti NOS module needs to be brought out (other than cap booster's) or blasters need to have there base range increased.
I used to fly a tranis with blaster's when they first came out but quickly switched to 125's simply to be able to keep out of NOS range and be able to fight effectivly vs longer ranged opponents.
In fact I cant think of a ship I have flown on this or my main in 3 years I have fitted blaster's to.
To me the ECM/NOS ships take away to much from small scale combat.
Never used the ECM/NOS Domi even though I have good drone skills for that reason - seems a sad way to setup a ship to me.
Edit - flown all the ships new and old on test and to be honest a lot of the complaints are not at least to me justified. Some are justified but it seems to many people dont want balance they want a ship that is a I win button.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: C0yote Edited by: C0yote on 27/11/2006 11:42:30 The problem with blasters is that they bring you into NOS range.
I always seem to fit rails rather than blasters on all my ships just to be able to stay outside NOS range as much as possible.
And like others here I really hate having to fit NOS just to be able to break even.
I like the tanking changes and HP changes its just either NOS needs to be changed - a anti NOS module needs to be brought out (other than cap booster's) or blasters need to have there base range increased.
I used to fly a tranis with blaster's when they first came out but quickly switched to 125's simply to be able to keep out of NOS range and be able to fight effectivly vs longer ranged opponents.
In fact I cant think of a ship I have flown on this or my main in 3 years I have fitted blaster's to.
To me the ECM/NOS ships take away to much from small scale combat.
Never used the ECM/NOS Domi even though I have good drone skills for that reason - seems a sad way to setup a ship to me.
Edit - flown all the ships new and old on test and to be honest a lot of the complaints are not at least to me justified. Some are justified but it seems to many people dont want balance they want a ship that is a I win button.
Please don't imply that fitting rails to make 'long short range' setups will fix the problem. And we most certianly do NOT need an anti-nos module. Where the hell am I going to put another module on my Mega when I can't even fit an ECM or ECCM module on it? I have every slot filled as it is...
Because I said so...
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.27 11:56:00 -
[17]
I say it too often, I risk looking like Murder One's "lapdog" ... but I'm going to say it again anyway: He's right.
We have to fight imbalance by balancing existing modules, not by adding more modules to counter imbalances. Otherwise, you end up with a billion counters for a billion different things. That isn't any good. That erases all versatility, because YOU MUST fit something to avoid something that MIGHT happen to you - or, it might not - and that's where the problem is. See, if you end up fitting something out of FEAR that something might happen, then you are just nerfing limitless other viable setups.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Zyrla Bladestorm
Minmatar Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:10:00 -
[18]
Quote: The Maelstrom has been awesome the whole time (26k grid, wtf?).
Just replying to this one small part, to say that after fitting the 8x1400mm II it is supposed to fit for the "fleet battleship" role it keeps being touted as filling, it has something like 50 PG free - thats with AWUP 5 and engineering 5.
Allows for easy fitting with AC's I will agree, but its only barely enough for artillery still. . ----- It's great being Minmatar, ain't it? Apologies for any rambling that may have just occurred.
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Crazybone
Caldari Eye of Nemesis
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:21:00 -
[19]
The Maelstrom will win all fights... i skilled gallente bs and large blasters and armor tanking to tec2 max and my mate in his maelstrom got tec1 shield tanking and tec 2 ac's so we started to test. and i had really no chance with hyperion or megathron on blaster fitting with void without moving on 2km to break the maelstroms tank before my ships exploded. now i am really scared what will happen when the maelstrom of my mate gets the tec2 or faction shield tanking modules. even not with a 8 neutron II gank hyperion i wasnt able to even get his shields to half and he just had 3 invu tec1 and a xlarge booster 1 running so hell the maelstrom is the new pvp monster but it needs a tackler cuz it cannot scramble ppl but it tanks insane ammounts of dmg even with tec1 so looking forward to see my mate with faction shieldtank and a crystal set
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:45:00 -
[20]
Oh my, a shield tanked ship that can fit a great tank, keep it p great but cannot tackle and not enough lows to fit a decent armor tank to get in the ew? Hmm, I wonder what ship I've heard that about before, except that ship always hit with its weapon systems.
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Jimmycs83
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2006.11.27 12:48:00 -
[21]
Originally by: murder one Blaster ships always rode a fine line. You either won by a landslide or died horribly. Now that fine balance has been tipped too far and no longer can a blaster pilot depend on his DPS for a clear concise victory, and due to the constant high cap usage of blasters can't use them in a slow fight of attrition.
this is exactly right. Blasterships have so many effective counters (NOs, ECM, range, tracking disruptors etc etc) and really are completely useless in large gang fights that they do NEED to be good at what they do which is get close is small gang combat situations and dish out alot of damage. The way eve is going with extended fights just makes things alot more difficult for blaster pilots to either win before their cap dies or to win before backup arrives which is a huge problem for ships that rely on fighting in web/scram range.
Personally tho i think that the astarte will be the king blastership in Revelations as it can do the neccesary gank while fitting a decent enough tank to survuve most engagements and also now has the speed/agility that you really need for a blasterboat while its med guns will actually be able to track a BS with a small amount of transversal which the hype currently cant do.
Jimmycs83
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Necronus
Amarr Monks of War
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:09:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Necronus on 27/11/2006 13:15:29 How about giving nos a penalty?
Fitting more then one? two(seems more reasonable)? reduces its efficiency.
But it still should not affect nos-specialized ships (Bhaal,Pili/Curse,ashimmu)that would definately ruin em.
Anyway,i don't see why gallente are whining so much. :) The only ship that benefits from current situation is a gallente one (oh yeah that ebil cheap drone carrier :D ) Amarrian ships use even more cap than you're blasters and they get even in more complicated situation cause if you cut the numbers of guns for nos you'll get so pathethic damage,that it wont even brake a cruisers tank (in current kali state). (:
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Chris TheNinjaPirate
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:10:00 -
[23]
Originally by: murder one I can fly Minmatar and Gallente BS with my main. I can undock in any of 6 battleships now. I'm not going to be flying the Hype or the Mega due to the blaster issues. Won't be flying the Domi after Kali because of the drone HP issues, and with ECM nerfed a bit it won't be anywhere near as powerful as it once was.
is murder one not your main? i would never claim that one's time in game determined their understanding of the game. however i have to marvel at your level of expertice with only 8 months on your character. you can fly minmatar and gallente battleships, and fly all of them well enough to compare.
that is a heavy accomplishment. some people have been playing for over a year and have spent all their time specialize in just the blasters!!!
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:32:00 -
[24]
Kali is bumming me out.
I am Gallente speccd. I have scellent drone skills, good bllaster skills, and moderate rail skills. I can only fly Gallente ships. In RMR, my favourite ship is the Domi, for use of my high drone skills (minimal Nos, you'll be thankful to hear), and I enjoy blaster Megas occasionally. I love my Vexs, and I also enjoy blasteraxs.
In Kali, it seems blasters are no good anymore- I can't hope to break a tank before my cap (aided by enemy Nos) runs flat. My cap is under strain from both the cap-guzzling blasters, and the Gallente active tank bonuses (found on Brutix and Myrm, for example). I can't help to stay out of Nos range due to the inherent close range of blasters.
In Kali, drones are equally buggered- without a HP boost, there s little hope that any drone ship bar the Domi will last out a fight (and the Domi will only if I discard it's trademark multi-drone flexibility and go for an all heavy setup). I've never tried an ECM Domi before (although I'm told they're very good) but the ECM nerf has certainly weekened that. Add to all this the drone bugs that are *still* in there from nearly 4 years ago still havn't been fixed. Herding cats was hard enough when they had some advantages...........
So..........guess I'll be training Rails up then. I mean they still suck compared to some of the other range-choices, but atleast I can keep out of Nos range.
In all honesty, Amarr are probably hit harder by all of this, having exactly the same problems only magnified. But that doesn't really make me happier about it -----------------------------------------------
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Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:46:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Patch86 Kali is bumming me out. <and more>
I'm in the same spot (except I'm reversed... decent drone skills and more specialized for gunnery). I guess I might start training Minmatar... that will put some of my existing skills to use, anyway :|
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:47:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate
Originally by: murder one I can fly Minmatar and Gallente BS with my main. I can undock in any of 6 battleships now. I'm not going to be flying the Hype or the Mega due to the blaster issues. Won't be flying the Domi after Kali because of the drone HP issues, and with ECM nerfed a bit it won't be anywhere near as powerful as it once was.
is murder one not your main? i would never claim that one's time in game determined their understanding of the game. however i have to marvel at your level of expertice with only 8 months on your character. you can fly minmatar and gallente battleships, and fly all of them well enough to compare.
that is a heavy accomplishment. some people have been playing for over a year and have spent all their time specialize in just the blasters!!!
No, murder one isn't my main. And even though he's not my main, and has only about 7.6m SP atm, I have well over 1000 kills with just this character alone. My main is very tightly focused for BS piloting, with particular emphasis on all related skills to fly a Vindicator, hence good Minmatar BS skills. Large Projectiles was a no brainer as well since I already had all the other gunnery support skills maxed.
Murder One will be my recon/hac pilot, again Gallente. Just starting Cruiser 5 today as a matter of fact. 43 days and I have Recons.
I've been playing the game a little over a year. PvP is all I'm interested in, and it's all I do. I don't mission run, I don't mine, I don't do research, I don't run a POS, I don't haul. I kill stuff. I make my isk by killing stuff. That's it.
And I agree, you could spend 3 years specializing in blasters and still barely be done with all the skills. I still have a loooong way to go.
Because I said so...
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infraX
Caldari Finite Horizon The Red Skull
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:53:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Patch86 Kali is bumming me out.
I am Gallente speccd. I have scellent drone skills, good bllaster skills, and moderate rail skills. I can only fly Gallente ships. In RMR, my favourite ship is the Domi, for use of my high drone skills (minimal Nos, you'll be thankful to hear), and I enjoy blaster Megas occasionally. I love my Vexs, and I also enjoy blasteraxs.
In Kali, it seems blasters are no good anymore- I can't hope to break a tank before my cap (aided by enemy Nos) runs flat. My cap is under strain from both the cap-guzzling blasters, and the Gallente active tank bonuses (found on Brutix and Myrm, for example). I can't help to stay out of Nos range due to the inherent close range of blasters.
In Kali, drones are equally buggered- without a HP boost, there s little hope that any drone ship bar the Domi will last out a fight (and the Domi will only if I discard it's trademark multi-drone flexibility and go for an all heavy setup). I've never tried an ECM Domi before (although I'm told they're very good) but the ECM nerf has certainly weekened that. Add to all this the drone bugs that are *still* in there from nearly 4 years ago still havn't been fixed. Herding cats was hard enough when they had some advantages...........
So..........guess I'll be training Rails up then. I mean they still suck compared to some of the other range-choices, but atleast I can keep out of Nos range.
In all honesty, Amarr are probably hit harder by all of this, having exactly the same problems only magnified. But that doesn't really make me happier about it
Seems like a pretty informed analysis to me. Amarr are in a bit of a state too which puts another of my chars out the window fow now - but I shall still stay focussed on Gallente and Amarr with those character because the time shall come when Amarr are un-nerfed and Gallente reign supreme at point blank range once again! I think I'll be in my minmatar ships for a bit because this patch really favours capless weapons and I don't really like missiles as a primary weapon system that much.
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murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.11.27 13:55:00 -
[28]
Originally by: infraX
Originally by: Patch86 Kali is bumming me out.
I am Gallente speccd. I have scellent drone skills, good bllaster skills, and moderate rail skills. I can only fly Gallente ships. In RMR, my favourite ship is the Domi, for use of my high drone skills (minimal Nos, you'll be thankful to hear), and I enjoy blaster Megas occasionally. I love my Vexs, and I also enjoy blasteraxs.
In Kali, it seems blasters are no good anymore- I can't hope to break a tank before my cap (aided by enemy Nos) runs flat. My cap is under strain from both the cap-guzzling blasters, and the Gallente active tank bonuses (found on Brutix and Myrm, for example). I can't help to stay out of Nos range due to the inherent close range of blasters.
In Kali, drones are equally buggered- without a HP boost, there s little hope that any drone ship bar the Domi will last out a fight (and the Domi will only if I discard it's trademark multi-drone flexibility and go for an all heavy setup). I've never tried an ECM Domi before (although I'm told they're very good) but the ECM nerf has certainly weekened that. Add to all this the drone bugs that are *still* in there from nearly 4 years ago still havn't been fixed. Herding cats was hard enough when they had some advantages...........
So..........guess I'll be training Rails up then. I mean they still suck compared to some of the other range-choices, but atleast I can keep out of Nos range.
In all honesty, Amarr are probably hit harder by all of this, having exactly the same problems only magnified. But that doesn't really make me happier about it
Seems like a pretty informed analysis to me. Amarr are in a bit of a state too which puts another of my chars out the window fow now - but I shall still stay focussed on Gallente and Amarr with those character because the time shall come when Amarr are un-nerfed and Gallente reign supreme at point blank range once again! I think I'll be in my minmatar ships for a bit because this patch really favours capless weapons and I don't really like missiles as a primary weapon system that much.
I thought you told me you were fitting all Miner IIs and stabs? What happened to that plan?
Because I said so...
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Kagura Nikon
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Posted - 2006.11.27 14:27:00 -
[29]
all quite easy to solve.. CCP just need to reduce NOS cap drain in 25% (the average amount of HP increase). And done.. all back to status quo..
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The Armin
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2006.11.27 14:57:00 -
[30]
Nerfing nos without nerfing the best two ships Amarr has, Pilgrim and Curse, will be quite hard tbh.
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