Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 16:19:00 -
[31]
Originally by: murder one
Originally by: Chris TheNinjaPirate ok so everyone says the blasters are now broken. the tech 2 ammo sucks so bad that you can't kill anyone without running out of cap first.
so who is killing you?
you get into your megathron or your hyperion... you go out and fight on SISI.
according to minmatar, the tempest sucks, the maelstrom sucks
according to the amarr, everything they have sucks
according to the caldari, t2 torp nerf made the raven useless.
so who is winning these fights? someone is winning the fights. if gallente is the loser, who the hell is the winner?
please tell me. maybe this will get people thinking. can you kill a well set up raven with a hyperion? can you kill a well set up maelstrom with a hyperion? NO? YES?
which is it?
people have sadi time and time again that the blasters ships are now useless. but they never say what killed htem. they never say "this is overpowered compared to the hyperion". they ALWAYS JUST say "omgomgomgogomg the hyperion suxxorz".
so which is it? what is beating the hyperion? or is everything just fine and some ppl are sobbing for attention?
I'll answer you (without flaming etc.).
Rokhs with 4x nos and 4x torps. Maelstroms with 4x nos, 4x ACs and a huge T2 shield tank. Abaddons with T2 heavy pulse and 3x plates, 4x nos. Ravens with T2 torp launchers, T1 ammo and heavy nos. Tempests with plates, ACs and nos.
The Abaddon has been changed/fixed. The Maelstrom has been awesome the whole time (26k grid, wtf?). The Rokh is awesome. All the T1 non cap weapon using ships got a huge buff with the cap buff (since how they have 25% more cap to tank with, and their still doing the same DPS).
The Raven with 25% more cap to tank with is just great. The Caldari/Minmatar ships can so a 'sit and wait' attrition strategy even better now due to the unilateral cap increase for all ships. The cap increase still didn't keep up with the cap needs of blaster/laser ships.
The Hyperion hasn't been changed like the Abaddon has. It still needs more cap, faster recharge, or more DPS.
25% more HP doesn't mean 25% longer battles. It means 50-75% longer battles due to the HP buffer allowing more rep cycles and more cap use. The cap buff for the Hype hasn't kept pace with the extended fighting time.
Compounding this problem is a 6.66% damage reduction to T2 ammo. With Void this is a very large raw damage reduction because it's magnified that much more in a DPS dependant setup. Blaster ships always rode a fine line. You either won by a landslide or died horribly. Now that fine balance has been tipped too far and no longer can a blaster pilot depend on his DPS for a clear concise victory, and due to the constant high cap usage of blasters can't use them in a slow fight of attrition.
Personally I think that if everything at this point was just left alone and Void was given it's DPS back, everything would be fine. The HP boost was plenty. The T2 ammo nerf, both long/short range wasn't needed IMO.
Your conclusion is wrong, Blasters aren't the problem. Nos is.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 16:33:00 -
[32]
There seems to be a pretty good case for applying a (standard?) stacking penalty to energy vampires/neutralisers. Does anyone else think that this would solve some of the problems people here are concerned with? ---------- An idea for helping people to appreciate ECCM |
murder one
Gallente CRICE Corporation Lotka Volterra
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 16:52:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Audri Fisher
Your conclusion is wrong, Blasters aren't the problem. Nos is.
If I had my old DPS back and the HP increase wasn't there, they'd be dead before I could be nossed to death now wouldn't they? Nos isn't the biggest problem, DPS is.
Because I said so...
|
Arkios Odymei
Caldar Mercenary Syndicate Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 19:32:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 27/11/2006 19:33:35
Originally by: The Armin Nerfing nos without nerfing the best two ships Amarr has, Pilgrim and Curse, will be quite hard tbh.
Do what they did to ECM. Weaken the module itself, but give an increase in the ships Nos bonus.
Nos specialized ships will still have the sucking power they currently do, but non-Nos specialized ships will only be able to use them as a secondary module, not a main weapon.
The question would then be By how much? 10%? 25%? 50% is too much I believe.
Who knows...
(Edit: BTW, Im a current Blasterthron and Pilgrim/Curse pilot, and have been toying around with the Hype on the test server aswell.)
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 19:38:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Arkios Odymei
(Edit: BTW, Im a current Blasterthron and Pilgrim/Curse pilot, and have been toying around with the Hype on the test server aswell.)
Any positive experiences at all? heh
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Arkios Odymei
Caldar Mercenary Syndicate Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 19:49:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv
Any positive experiences at all? heh
Yea The Hype works great when nobody is shooting at me and I dont have to run my rep(s), heh.
Seriously tho, Its pretty tough trying to break the tank of some of these ships in time. 20 Cap booster charges go by alot faster then I would like, and after that, its over.
Like Murder one's been saying, Blaster ships need either DPS to go up (in order to break enemy tanks), or some way to keep our caps from shutting down while we slowly take down the enemies tank.
Some of these ships are pretty nasty and require a dual rep tank to have any chance against. Dual rep pretty mych kills you cap being that they alone use all the power from your cap boosters.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 19:55:00 -
[37]
Ugh. Guess I'm going Minmatar for gunships then... and I guess maybe I'll see how a domi works and work on my drone skills.
CCP wants me flying my domi: NOS and ubertank! That's what they want, right?
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 20:11:00 -
[38]
The cap/HP increases even out the same balance as before between tank, damage, and NOS. This can be conclusivly proven by breaking down the amount of time each module can run and doing a comparison by percentage. All modules will run 25% longer. This change does not change any of the balance from TQ between NOS/AC/Blasters/Lasers by itself. All it does is make any imbalances easier to spot.
For blasters specifically because the HP increase decreased the percentage of HP reduced by an opposing ship as the blaster ship closes with its target this bonus benefits short range ships over long range ships, of which the blasterboats are the King of.
Murder and I are discussing it in another thread in a bit more depth, and i dont really feel like making the same arguement again. The t2 damage nerf hit all races equally, and the cap/hp increases havent changed balance against short range ships or for or against NOS in anyway.
Disclaimer: Between ships that recieved larger than 25% boost in HP while not recieving an equal boost in capacitor, those ships it will be easier to nos than shoot than it was pre-kali. This basically means cap ships, destroyers, and battlecruisers. Destroyers are so flimsy i doubt it will matter much, I havent a clue about what it will do to cap ships, since i havent had the (dis)pleasure of having to fight against one and havent bothered to examine them and with battlecruisers it might be an issue, but im holding my judgement.
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 20:20:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 27/11/2006 20:23:33 Link? I'll look for it myself, but I'm at work... I'd rather have a link, because I'm supposed to be WORKING at work ^_^
Anyway, if balance is really preserved (and I know this is probably an oversimplified statement and doesn't resemble a true "argument") - but in short - why do blasters rock on Tranq and suck on Sisi?
I mean... you would think that if balance has been preserved, that blasters on Sisi would rock, or blasters on tranq would suck...?
Give me a link to the other thread anyway...
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 20:21:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Goumindong on 27/11/2006 20:22:11 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=432387
Its in the "OMG BLASTERS NEED 7.5% DMG BONUS THREAD"
I wouldnt mind transfering the conversation, but only if the folks replying to me want to come here instead and make it easier to read.
|
|
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 20:24:00 -
[41]
OK cool thx.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 20:35:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Tribunal on 27/11/2006 20:40:41 Right now I am 10 for 10 vs other battleships with my blaster Hyperion. Two of the players I beat were in BoB (one in a Raven and the other in a Rokh), so i don't want to hear the ramble about these 10 people running around test were horrible set-ups.
With this said the blaster bonus on the Hyperion needs to be upped to 7.5% a level. At this moment I'm sure you're stumped why I would say this, but the simple fact is that everyone (90%) of the time starts at point blank range on the test server. If I had to use my MWD to reach the targets for an extended period of time I would have lost quite a few of those fights.
To put it bluntly, a Hyperion will *just* beat another well set-up battleship at close range (6km and less), which is WRONG. A blaster is: hard to fit, takes up a lot of cap, and has a horrible range. It should not be a close battle with blasters at close range, it should be a one-sided slaughter.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Xori Ruscuv
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 20:46:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 27/11/2006 20:47:49
Originally by: Tribunal
Right now I am 10 for 10 vs other battleships with my blaster Hyperion. Two of the players I beat were in BoB (one in a Raven and the other in a Rokh), so i don't want to hear the ramble about these 10 people running around test were horrible set-ups.
To be fair, they may have been testing setups? Also, I imagine that not every single individual pilot in BOB is a great duellist/solo PVPer - I mean, they may be better trained in the group dynamic of combat.
I don't know. I don't mean this as any insult to BOB either, I'm not anti-BOB. I just can't imagine that every single BOB pilot is a minor god :)
Quote: To put it bluntly, a Hyperion will *just* beat another well set-up battleship at close range (6km and less), which is WRONG. A blaster is: hard to fit, takes up a lot of cap, and has a horrible range. It should not be a close battle with blasters at close range, it should be a one-sided slaughter.
Well... if not that, at least it should have some armor left :D I'm afriad that the OP is right, however: if the ships work - even if the *just barely* work - they'll never get fixed.
It's great playing Caldari-online, isn't it?
This IS my main! I just did a portrait swap... |
Tribunal
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 21:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Xori Ruscuv To be fair, they may have been testing setups? Also, I imagine that not every single individual pilot in BOB is a great duellist/solo PVPer - I mean, they may be better trained in the group dynamic of combat.
I don't know. I don't mean this as any insult to BOB either, I'm not anti-BOB. I just can't imagine that every single BOB pilot is a minor god :)
They were viable PvP set-ups because I asked them what they were using at the end of the matches.
Quote: Well... if not that, at least it should have some armor left :D I'm afriad that the OP is right, however: if the ships work - even if the *just barely* work - they'll never get fixed.
The problem is that it will not just barely work in most PvP encounters because the MWD will have to be used. A increase in the dmg mod to 7.5% I think would fix a lot of the problems atm.
"We can't all be heroes, because somebody has to sit on the curb and applaud when they go by." - Will Rogers |
Captain IceEye
Caldari
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 21:38:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Captain IceEye on 27/11/2006 21:42:05
Originally by: murder one Compounding this problem is a 6.66% damage reduction to T2 ammo.
It is the dev(ils) work!!!
elfen > read the forums they will tell u the truth |
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 21:55:00 -
[46]
Guys I cannot believe this complaining about gal ships/weapons. ITs outragous. I LOVE blasters heck I fit them on my abba's great tank great dps. Blasters > lasers imo (and im amarr speced) i have tons of PG left after fitting them, that i can fit AB II's, heavy injectors and ungodly tanks. Blasters are perfect imo. And this complaining that you cannot smash someone in a few seconds like in rmr is nuts... ccp was wanting to make battles last longer.
Don't even start on gal bs's please. for goodness sake the armour rep bonus is crazy. I have been messing around with one on the test and i must admit its godly. I love people complaining about the cap use... injectors anyone? its really easy to keep it all running injectors are key figure it out...
I think everything is ballanced well (well amarr kinda got shafted again but oh well) The gal are awesome, caldari still must be pleasing tux in more way than one and mini's are now shining with the nos cap use... Im amarrian speced BS 5 T2 ships ect ect and I think they are fine-ish. Just learn to play the game without Bit**ing and crap. ITs a game play...
Big, scary, sharp teeth (insert scary, angry bear here)like that. I must be the scarriest carebear ever... |
Arkios Odymei
Caldar Mercenary Syndicate Freelancer Alliance
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 22:21:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Arkios Odymei on 27/11/2006 22:24:37
Originally by: gu o Guys I cannot believe this complaining about gal ships/weapons. ITs outragous. I LOVE blasters heck I fit them on my abba's great tank great dps. Blasters > lasers imo (and im amarr speced) i have tons of PG left after fitting them, that i can fit AB II's, heavy injectors and ungodly tanks. Blasters are perfect imo. And this complaining that you cannot smash someone in a few seconds like in rmr is nuts... ccp was wanting to make battles last longer.
Um... Have you looked at the difference between the PG of an Abadon and a Hyperion? Massive difference. Ofcourse you are gonna have tons more grid. And just so you know, a Hyperion (with 8 turret points) only has about 250 more PG than the Megathron (with 7 turret points), and the megathron was a tight squeese to get everything on. Try fitting an extra turret with only 250 extra grid... its fun, heh. (thank god for pg rigs!)
Also, the complaints have nothing to do with blasterboat pilots wanting insta ganks. We want blasters benifits (High damage) to be worth their problems (Need alot of cap to fire, ultra close range so needs a MWD and hence more cap use and a 25% capicitor nerf, etc)
Originally by: gu o Don't even start on gal bs's please. for goodness sake the armour rep bonus is crazy. I have been messing around with one on the test and i must admit its godly. I love people complaining about the cap use... injectors anyone? its really easy to keep it all running injectors are key figure it out...
Well, I love people who can make a completely unrealistic setup to demonstrate a point. Im sure your tripple rep tank was king and nothing killed you... but did you kill anything with the cruiser sized guns you were forced to fit due to Powergrid issues?
Even running a dual rep tank, you will need atleast 1 heavy cap booster constantly running. I actualy found that in order to get a Dual rep setup to properly run, I needed 1 heavy cap injector and atleast 1 medium cap injector with an 800 charge running aswell. And with those 2 reps eating my powergrid, I was forced to use Electron blasters instead of Ions, or use up all my rig slots for PG rigs.
Flying a real blasterboat Hyperion is a bit harder than you think. Like i said, You can put a crazy tank on it, but thats all its gonna do. Blaster boats need to be able to put out the pain while staying alive in order to come out on top, and right now, thats not really happening.
on a side note, Im interested in the Abadon and would like to play around with it some time, I just need to train up the skills, heh... but this if for a different thread.
|
gu o
|
Posted - 2006.11.27 22:40:00 -
[48]
wow way to flame someone when you have no idea. When did I ever say I was running a tripple rep tank? its a bs not titan. But thanks for the kind reply. And yes I have noted the lesser pg on the gal ships (and every other race's) in comparision to the amarrians. Did you note the insane pg use of lasers? hmm well... ok now take a look at every races cpu... note the amarrians' distinct lack of cpu. Im not trying to sound like im Bit**ing like some other people here im merely saying that every race has its down sides. Don't sit here souting about it and go fly something else that you think is the new "I win Button" and tbh Bit**ing gal flyers should be quiet. you have very impressive ships...
Fit some lasers on your ship and square off against an amarrian boat totin blasters...you will loose every time.
Amarrian ships-Awesome Amarrian ships with lasers-not so awesome Amarrian ships with blasters-godly |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |