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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
820
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:38:26 -
[1] - Quote
The skill system of EvE and its passive training used to be one of its major selling points back when other MMO(RPG)s had a very slow character progression with lots of grinding. Most of these games have improved a lot in that regard and offer a far better progression pace than EvE now. At the same time it doesnt actually add any depth to the game, just artificial locks. 90% of player progression in EvE happens on a social and financial level. The skill system also locks new players for a considerable amount of time into training skills which dont actually unlock any new content in terms of ships/modules and puts them at a serious disadvantage compared to older players, no matter actual player skill. Gifting new players more SP in the beginning wont solve this problem either. What I suggest is a perk system which is tied to the new player experience. After going through the tutorials a player would end up with a fully unlocked character which has access to all modules and ships in game. Players would be able to chose a few perks from a large variety to customize their playstyle. If you would want to do exploration for example you would chose bonuses to probe strength and hacking strength. With time there could be more creative perks added than just raw stat bonuses.
I know it would be a lot of coding effort but EvE needs a fundamental change in this regard as the gap between old and new players grow larger every day and the whole system is just dated from a game design perspective.
Tell me what you think~~
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Wynta
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
24
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:42:30 -
[2] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:The skill system of EvE and its passive training used to be one of its major selling points back when other MMO(RPG)s had a very slow character progression with lots of grinding. Most of these games have improved a lot in that regard and offer a far better progression pace than EvE now. At the same time it doesnt actually add any depth to the game, just artificial locks. 90% of player progression in EvE happens on a social and financial level. The skill system also locks new players for a considerable amount of time into training skills which dont actually unlock any new content in terms of ships,modules and performance and put them at a serious disadvantage compared to older players, no matter actual player skill. Gifting new players more SP in the beginning wont solve this problem either. What I suggest is a perk system which is tied to the new player experience. After going through the tutorials a player would end up with a fully unlocked character which has access to all modules and ships in game. Players would be able to chose a few perks from a large variety to customize their playstyle. If you would want to do exploration for example you would chose bonuses to probe strength and hacking strength. With time there could be more creative perks added than just raw stat bonuses.
I know it would be a lot of coding effort but EvE needs a fundamental change in this regard as the gap between old and new players grow larger every day and the whole system is just dated from a game design perspective.
It is too late to remove it without completely ******* over vets who invested alot of time into the current system. The main problem with the skill system is that it takes too long to get into T2 frigates because they are weighed down by ******/bad prereqs. Simply changing the prereqs from 5 to 4 for all T2 frigates would make it so much quicker to get into specialized boats. Also add a T2 Logi fig/destroyer that can give newbros a better understanding of what T2 Cruiser Logistic would feel like. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1155
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:42:40 -
[3] - Quote
this idea has come up b4 and been shot down
there is also a sticky about skills/sp gain on the main page
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2563
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:43:46 -
[4] - Quote
IB4 death by fire E: too late
But that aside, I don't know about the perks thing, but I have more recently started to sway opinion toward having skill system changed in that manner. I believe there is room for a hybridization, where you can fly it, but you are not proficient at it. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
1155
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:47:28 -
[5] - Quote
Wynta wrote:
It is too late to remove it without completely ******* over vets who invested alot of time into the current system. The main problem with the skill system is that it takes too long to get into T2 frigates because they are weighed down by ******/bad prereqs. Simply changing the prereqs from 5 to 4 for all T2 frigates would make it so much quicker to get into specialized boats. Also add a T2 Logi fig/destroyer that can give newbros a better understanding of what T2 Cruiser Logistic would feel like.
I don't agree other than two of the ewar frigs and cepters none of the t2 frigs do anything that isn't out done by other ships (or done almost as well by a t1 frig)
the progression in eve is great and it makes sure you are not rushing ahead to more expensive ships b4 you know how to use them. Like when they lowered the SP to get into BBs and now newbros train right into them and lose them on the first few missions they take them in on.
as for the T2 logi frig there is no need the T1 does the job excellently and will get you more than familiar with RR mechanics then you can move up to T1 cruiser to understand chaining b4 finally using T2 logi
Fuel block colors? Missiles for Caldari T3? Corp Stasis
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1155
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rowells wrote:IB4 death by fire E: too late
But that aside, I don't know about the perks thing, but I have more recently started to sway opinion toward having skill system changed in that manner. I believe there is room for a hybridization, where you can fly it, but you are not proficient at it.
this is already the case
i can train into and fly a carrier in just over 120 days however it will take me over a year to be proficient
i can fly a BB in under a weak but it will take me months to be proficient with it
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Iain Cariaba
1575
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:52:41 -
[7] - Quote
There is already a sticky thread discussing SP, this belongs there.
The passive character progression is still a major draw for gamers who have actual lives away from their computers. With the exact same remap/implants, as long as I pay my subscriptions/MCTs, I don't even have to log on for my characters to advance at the exact same rate as the guy able to play 16 hours a day. This is pretty much the main reason I've continued to play here for the last ten years.
If you want a game to grind your way to the top, then go play any of the hundred other MMOs. The only thing I should actually have tomwork for in a game is whatever the game currency. Having to work for simple character advancement is boring, tedious, and not something I'm willing to pay a subscription fee for.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Will troll for a t-shirt.
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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
820
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:52:52 -
[8] - Quote
Proficiency shouldnt come from arbitrary stats in some spreadsheet but from how good you actually are as a player.
Old players are quitting the game anyway and nothing would be taken away from them, new players is what the game needs.
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3771
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:53:12 -
[9] - Quote
It takes about a month to train into T2 frigs. I don't think that is too long.
Oh god.
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Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
820
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:55:19 -
[10] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:There is already a sticky thread discussing SP, this belongs there.
The passive character progression is still a major draw for gamers who have actual lives away from their computers. With the exact same remap/implants, as long as I pay my subscriptions/MCTs, I don't even have to log on for my characters to advance at the exact same rate as the guy able to play 16 hours a day. This is pretty much the main reason I've continued to play here for the last ten years.
If you want a game to grind your way to the top, then go play any of the hundred other MMOs. The only thing I should actually have tomwork for in a game is whatever the game currency. Having to work for simple character advancement is boring, tedious, and not something I'm willing to pay a subscription fee for.
I understand this and thats why I also want to keep the unlocking process as short as possible. Eve isnt a game abou grinding quests but about social interaction and creating your own story.
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3771
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Posted - 2015.07.01 21:57:49 -
[11] - Quote
Honestly, it's a bad idea for a number of reasons, most of them are financial.
Oh god.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2563
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Posted - 2015.07.01 22:00:01 -
[12] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Rowells wrote:IB4 death by fire E: too late
But that aside, I don't know about the perks thing, but I have more recently started to sway opinion toward having skill system changed in that manner. I believe there is room for a hybridization, where you can fly it, but you are not proficient at it. this is already the case i can train into and fly a carrier in just over 120 days however it will take me over a year to be proficient i can fly a BB in under a weak but it will take me months to be proficient with it Yes, proficiency is already the case, but I think that should be the more important factor. The difference being between, actually being able to use it at its most basic form (I can sit in it and use its modules) vs being proficient (I can use all of its benefits at their highest value).
Currently you have to train for the basics AND then work on proficiency.
If anything, it would be a rework of skills so that proficiency takes about the same amount of time as it does now, but simple use is ready from day 1. A greater expanse between the two would be in order as well.
I think a system as such would be beneficial, not directly through less wait time, but using different tools to overcome deficiencies, which holds potential for greater interaction and cooperation to try and do it. |
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
820
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Posted - 2015.07.01 22:00:59 -
[13] - Quote
Its better than the current system which doesnt have any meaningful gameplay attached to it whatsoever.
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Iain Cariaba
1575
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Posted - 2015.07.01 22:04:38 -
[14] - Quote
Baali Tekitsu wrote:Its better than the current system which doesnt have any meaningful gameplay attached to it whatsoever. Nope, you're wrong.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Will troll for a t-shirt.
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6028
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Posted - 2015.07.01 22:05:38 -
[15] - Quote
Hello! We have a sticky for just this sort of idea; you can find it here. I'm gonna close this for redundancy now. Thanks!
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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