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calscan
Homebrew Headquarters
0
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
The new launcher requires re-acceptance of the EULA so I skimmed through it and one particular paragraph caught my eye as it seems to ban fairly common behavior with alts.
Quote:You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale.
This would appear to prohibit any boosting of alts e.g., by giving them money, implants, ships, etc. If you want a cyno alt do you really need to grind through L1s on the alt until she can afford the needed ships and skill books? Can someone clarify whether any of these are now considered bannable offenses?
- A player wants to start a booster alt. The player creates a new account and a new toon (the alt) on that account. The player gives the alt a set of +4 training implants and the relevant skill books. A few months later he buys her a Loki.
- A player wants to create a super-sitter and engages in the same conduct as above.
- Same as #1 except the main issues a loan to the alt and then tips the alt when she flies with the main as a booster. Eventually the alt repays the loan.
- Same as #1 except the alt grinds the money by null-sec mining after being given access to null sec through the main's corp, when such a new character would not ordinarily be allowed in the corp.
- A player keeps a market alt in one of the hubs who acts as a bank and places orders while the main is off doing main-things. The player gives the alt a bankroll to begin trading and assets to hold.
This paragraph is rather perplexing to me. Eve doesn't really have levels or ranks anyway, so it seems almost as if this paragraph was lifted from some other game's EULA (SWOR maybe?) without thinking it through. I'd love some clarification on how this paragraph is supposed to function in practice.
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Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
156
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:04:26 -
[2] - Quote
I'm still pretty new but I know that the answer to all EULA clarification requests is to file a petition.
In your special case I would suggest that it is highly appropriate (and desired by CCP) for an Alt to share the wealth of the main. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
741
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:05:58 -
[3] - Quote
In all honesty, I never read the EULA as usual. Bad, I know. So props for doing so.
That quote makes my head spin. I have no idea what it actually says.
I do find it hard to believe any of the stuff you mentioned violates anything. Stuff like that has been our "normal" gameplay for more than 10 years.
But eh... I don't really know for sure. That quote reads like it has normal words, but their combined meaning in practice eludes me. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1952
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:06:27 -
[4] - Quote
calscan wrote:The new launcher requires re-acceptance of the EULA so I skimmed through it and one particular paragraph caught my eye as it seems to ban fairly common behavior with alts. Quote:You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale. This would appear to prohibit any boosting of alts e.g., by giving them money, implants, ships, etc. If you want a cyno alt do you really need to grind through L1s on the alt until she can afford the needed ships and skill books? Can someone clarify whether any of these are now considered bannable offenses?
- A player wants to start a booster alt. The player creates a new account and a new toon (the alt) on that account. The player gives the alt a set of +4 training implants and the relevant skill books. A few months later he buys her a Loki.
- A player wants to create a super-sitter and engages in the same conduct as above.
- Same as #1 except the main issues a loan to the alt and then tips the alt when she flies with the main as a booster. Eventually the alt repays the loan.
- Same as #1 except the alt grinds the money by null-sec mining after being given access to null sec through the main's corp, when such a new character would not ordinarily be allowed in the corp.
- A player keeps a market alt in one of the hubs who acts as a bank and places orders while the main is off doing main-things. The player gives the alt a bankroll to begin trading and assets to hold.
This paragraph is rather perplexing to me. Eve doesn't really have levels or ranks anyway, so it seems almost as if this paragraph was lifted from some other game's EULA (SWOR maybe?) without thinking it through. I'd love some clarification on how this paragraph is supposed to function in practice.
Are you planning on selling your account? |
SFR SaFeRa
Alliance of Free Stars
15
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:07:10 -
[5] - Quote
I doubt CCP is stupid enough to ban any of what you said (then again.....). That being said, file a petition. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
892
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:09:14 -
[6] - Quote
1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales)
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1952
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:14:14 -
[7] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales)
I'm pretty sure items are only included in character sales if you pass through the official forum. You can more than likely ask for a character transfer without officially selling the character on the forum and then, nothing but a rule like this can pervent you from selling it with items to increase it's value. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
892
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:22:18 -
[8] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales) I'm pretty sure items are only included in character sales if you pass through the official forum. You can more than likely ask for a character transfer without officially selling the character on the forum and then, nothing but a rule like this can pervent you from selling it with items to increase it's value.
ah ok, even a private sale i would still post it on the forum to gain the safety that ccp provides as they will only stop scamming chars if its on the forum?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1952
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:28:20 -
[9] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales) I'm pretty sure items are only included in character sales if you pass through the official forum. You can more than likely ask for a character transfer without officially selling the character on the forum and then, nothing but a rule like this can pervent you from selling it with items to increase it's value. ah ok, even a private sale i would still post it on the forum to gain the safety that ccp provides as they will only stop scamming chars if its on the forum?
If you are selling off the forum, it probably isn't a legit trade anyway so you would NOT post on the forum. There is no reason at all to not post a legit character sale on the forum anyway.
This is likely not targeted at legit character sales since the rules already prevent this from happening (no items of any kind can be packaged with the character being sold. |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3776
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:31:07 -
[10] - Quote
It's a way of preventing RMT through character sales.
Oh god.
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3776
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:32:37 -
[11] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales) I'm pretty sure items are only included in character sales if you pass through the official forum. You can more than likely ask for a character transfer without officially selling the character on the forum and then, nothing but a rule like this can pervent you from selling it with items to increase it's value. I'm pretty sure character sales are only allowed through the forum.
Oh god.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1952
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:42:12 -
[12] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales) I'm pretty sure items are only included in character sales if you pass through the official forum. You can more than likely ask for a character transfer without officially selling the character on the forum and then, nothing but a rule like this can pervent you from selling it with items to increase it's value. I'm pretty sure character sales are only allowed through the forum.
I can transfer character from one account to another by paying the associated PLEX cost. What prevent me from giving them a target account other than mine? Are all account strongly linked enough for CCP to prevent that? |
Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
257
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:47:19 -
[13] - Quote
So those 1 and 2 day olds in Vexor Navy Issues running career agents in protected rookie systems are violating the EULA? Thank god ban them! Ban them NOW! |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
859
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:50:07 -
[14] - Quote
I really think everyone in this thread should just admit they don't have a ******* clue what it says and demand clarification from CCP. |
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1178
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:57:05 -
[15] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales) I'm pretty sure items are only included in character sales if you pass through the official forum. You can more than likely ask for a character transfer without officially selling the character on the forum and then, nothing but a rule like this can pervent you from selling it with items to increase it's value.
You buy a super-alt including his implants/jumpclones (but not apparel), but the nyx to that alt must be transfered seperately? |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
806
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Posted - 2015.07.02 15:59:37 -
[16] - Quote
This ridiculous run-on-lawyer-sentence seems to be only about inflating the value of a character for the purpose of sale. I don't think it applies to giving your noob alt a nightmare to mission in or whatever. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1953
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:05:36 -
[17] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Lan Wang wrote:1. accounts can not be sold, threads get locked for even mentioning "account for sale" so this is silly and breaches its own laws. 2. when selling a char you are not allowed to increase the price of the char or make it more appealing by saying it has a 3bil tengu in jita (items are not included in char sales) I'm pretty sure items are only included in character sales if you pass through the official forum. You can more than likely ask for a character transfer without officially selling the character on the forum and then, nothing but a rule like this can pervent you from selling it with items to increase it's value. You buy a super-alt including his implants/jumpclones (but not apparel), but the nyx to that alt must be transfered seperately?
From the character sale rule thread.
Q. Can I sell my Damnation, Navy Raven, Nyx, etc with my character? A. Nope, but you can sell them in the Sell Order forums.
It's funny that your example was a Nyx... |
Tacct
Redemption Road Affirmative.
20
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:20:18 -
[18] - Quote
The re-acceptance has me curious, did anything actually change? Its still dated as last being updated in 2012.
Also, a quick search of the portion mentioned in the original post shows that companies just copy sections of each other's ToS / EULA word for word. |
Marsha Mallow
2282
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:38:16 -
[19] - Quote
calscan wrote:The new launcher requires re-acceptance of the EULA so I skimmed through it and one particular paragraph caught my eye as it seems to ban fairly common behavior with alts. Quote:You may not engage in any conduct that results in an Account containing items, objects, currency, character attributes, rank, or status that are inappropriate for the level or rank of the character contained in the Account, including without limitation arranging, making or accepting transfers of items to a character without adequate consideration, thereby augmenting or aggregating items in an Account and increasing its value for an Account sale. This paragraph is rather perplexing to me. Eve doesn't really have levels or ranks anyway, so it seems almost as if this paragraph was lifted from some other game's EULA (SWOR maybe?) without thinking it through. I'd love some clarification on how this paragraph is supposed to function in practice.
It reads to me like a prohibition on using macros or power levelling services. Might have been lifted from other MMO EULAs, but it is applicable in EvE so best to have it there. Normally in other MMOs power levellers will boost your character through levels, here they could just log into your account and grind missions until you have access to loads of high level agents or factions.
The second part looks like a ban on those who would create accounts for the express purpose of selling them with massive amounts of isk/assets attached (think 'biro' with a free 1m sp alt with 100b isk - this is how they used to be listed on ebay). Even if the character sale was done legitimately through the forums, there are sneaky ways to leave assets on the account which could be done to systematically RMT.
Frostys Virpio wrote:If you are selling off the forum, it probably isn't a legit trade anyway so you would NOT post on the forum. There is no reason at all to not post a legit character sale on the forum anyway.
This is likely not targeted at legit character sales since the rules already prevent this from happening (no items of any kind can be packaged with the character being sold. Last time I petitioned this and asked whether character sales had to be documented on the forum, the GM replied that it wasn't mandatory but was advised in case of a dispute. You still have to drop the character from corp and clear all assets etc. It's best to petition and ask the GMs in each instance. There are legit reasons why people might prefer to do private sales, but with the impersonation ruling you do have to be very careful and use some common sense. At the least creating a trail of emails confirming the exchange to protect both parties in case anything goes wrong is worthwhile.
Some character trades still go through with assets and ISK. GMs wil reverse ISK balances but not assets from what I've seen. People frequently leave more hilarious (and potentially valuable) items on their characters when they sell them - like bookmarks to every personal/corp/alliance POS/JB & tacticals. Or all of their emails, contacts & notifications.
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote: TO THE PITCHFORKMOBILE!
Benny Ohu wrote: fire up the argument calibrators set phasers to outraged overheat keyboards reinforce the thread
ISD Ezwal wrote: Nope, no one will get banned for 'rubbing'
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
14540
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:49:55 -
[20] - Quote
The way I interpret that is more that you're not allowed to "boost" an alt in order to sell it.
Eg purely train an alt with the intention to sell it, and thus you've increased the value of it on purpose to sell it later.
But yeah would be nice to hear what they had in mind with that section, seeing as starting an alt you 9 out of 10 times will aid it by giving it skillbooks, isk, ships and whatnot rather than grinding it from the start.
In terms of sale of the character and eg supercap - that has never been allowed to sell them both at the sale of the character, and any items on a character is not included in the sale and as such a risk that the buyer will have to face if the super isn't there kinda.
/c
GÿàGÿàGÿà Secure 3rd party service GÿàGÿàGÿà
Visit my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'
Twitter @Chribba
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
609
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:52:06 -
[21] - Quote
I can confirm that private sales are fine, as long as the necessary fee is paid ofc.
You're the cutest thing that I ever did seeeeee
I so much want to shake your treeeee
Lovey dovey, lovey dovey, lovey dovey all the time
Ooh wee baby, I sure show you a good tiiiiime
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
3025
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Posted - 2015.07.02 16:59:09 -
[22] - Quote
You are only allowed to sell a blank char , so no assets of any kind should be involved is how i read it.But hasn't it been like this for a verry long time?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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DaReaper
Net 7
2273
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Posted - 2015.07.02 17:08:47 -
[23] - Quote
This sounds like:
I want to sell Da, he has 130m sp's (he does) can fly a super (he can) his value is 60b (guessing for tis example) i want to make this higher. So i state that if you buy him i will hand over a titan. (he can;t fly one, nor is he in one) in an attempt to boost his sale price. This would make sense with citadels coming and the possibility of a char being able to have a 'docked' super or titan.
So i could say:
For sale, DaReaper, 130m sp's super pilot, with a titan int he hanger, will just take a few days of training.
Now i just 'boosted' his posiblt sale price higher. Because its an asset, and technically i'm not selling the titan with him, he just happens to own it.
edit: yes my wording was poor but you get the idea
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1178
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Posted - 2015.07.02 17:21:14 -
[24] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:From the character sale rule thread.
Q. Can I sell my Damnation, Navy Raven, Nyx, etc with my character? A. Nope, but you can sell them in the Sell Order forums.
It's funny that your example was a Nyx...
Just people around me did buy characters, though only nag/moros and nyx toons. So an acquaintance bought a nyx-alt and a seperate nyx back then, that's how I recalled ;) |
flakeys
Arkham Innovations
3026
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Posted - 2015.07.02 17:21:33 -
[25] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:This sounds like:
I want to sell Da, he has 130m sp's (he does) can fly a super (he can) his value is 60b (guessing for tis example) i want to make this higher. So i state that if you buy him i will hand over a titan. (he can;t fly one, nor is he in one) in an attempt to boost his sale price. This would make sense with citadels coming and the possibility of a char being able to have a 'docked' super or titan.
So i could say:
For sale, DaReaper, 130m sp's super pilot, with a titan int he hanger, will just take a few days of training.
Now i just 'boosted' his posiblt sale price higher. Because its an asset, and technically i'm not selling the titan with him, he just happens to own it.
edit: yes my wording was poor but you get the idea
Yup , that's how i see it too.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
253
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Posted - 2015.07.02 17:36:40 -
[26] - Quote
There is a reason 99.999% of us didnt read the EULA change. If you play with no intention of abusing game mechanics those rules will never be a problem for you, either stop worrying or stop cheating.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1955
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Posted - 2015.07.02 17:38:38 -
[27] - Quote
flakeys wrote:You are only allowed to sell a blank char , so no assets of any kind should be involved is how i read it.But hasn't it been like this for a verry long time?
If you don't go through the character bazaar, do they check if the character you are transferring to your "alt account" is free of assets? |
Circumstantial Evidence
206
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Posted - 2015.07.02 17:41:21 -
[28] - Quote
I agree with interpretations by Unezka Turigahl & Lan Wang.
Everything points at the last words, "account sale". Which should probably be changed to character sale. (I'm not aware of a CCP-approved method of isk-based account sales between players.)
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Mag's
the united
19726
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Posted - 2015.07.02 20:06:57 -
[29] - Quote
I can confirm that common sense, isn't all that common.
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
479
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Posted - 2015.07.02 20:07:15 -
[30] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:There is a reason 99.999% of us didnt read the EULA change. If you play with no intention of abusing game mechanics those rules will never be a problem for you, either stop worrying or stop cheating.
Took the words right out of my mouth. If you do something with intent, then you're wrong for doing it...plain and simple. Hope you get caught, you meanie. If you're playing Eve without intentions to do something you could get in trouble for, I would imagine CCP has ways to figure that out long before you would get in trouble. I'm sure they can see tell what is an honest mistake and an intentional breach of EULA/ToS when it occurs.
If it bothers you, though, no biggie. Who can really blame you, you're trying to do things honestly. Good for you. Petition to get a formal answer and go with that.
"Tomahawks?"
"----in' A, right?"
"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."
"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
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