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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 12 post(s) |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:11:06 -
[1] - Quote
Today I was lurking in the recruitment chat and found a new guy asking around for a noob friendly corp, after some minutes, probably half an hour, he asked if this game hated new players since seemingly no one wanted to recruit him and all the people responding told him went to tell him to "sit it out " and wait a month or two.....even keeping in mind he was trolling is this for real?
Is this the new guy experience we have right now? It is bad enough that new chars start with literally nothing trained, they are given some skill books and even a cerebral booster but lets face it basically they are told, pay up and wait, come back later.
Once upon a time people started out with certain professions learned and a 800k sp head start, what was wrong about that? Now most corps are not even willing to take in the 50k sp noob.
After it triggered my personal interest I made a char myself, and tried it out and oh boy....this game has the very worst new player experience I have ever seen, actually, you are first presented with great graphics and acceptable mechanics and then you realize, especially after having interaction with seasoned players you are considered worthless for at least 1 month or more....pay up, queue up and shut up.....that is what you are told in a nutshell.
Who would resub based on such an experience? Even if EvE players are in for the long haul, talking off new people like that can not be beneficial or does Hilmar plan to close the doors in 3-4 years considers new guys neglectable?
It is not even the attitude of todays recruiters, it is how the game sets out for new people!
In my opinion getting rid of learning skills was good, now professions must be brought back and people must be given a 600-800K trained up basic skills head start on top of the granted cerebral booster and stuff.
This will probably make it more easy to create suicide ganking alts but that is a problem that can be dealt with separately .
If the game wants to strive something must be done! The game itself is amazing, the new guys experience is abysmal though!
I wonder what the current conversion rate of trial accounts to paying accounts is.....it can not be good. |
Jeanne Tivianne
23
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:14:24 -
[2] - Quote
The in-game recruitment channel is the bottom of the barrel of recruitment options.
Instead of ranting here on the forums, why didn't you use this time to help that new pilot find one of the better resources? |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10577
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:17:06 -
[3] - Quote
Ccp rise has a thread over in features and ideas for where you should repost this. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=432569&find=unread
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Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:19:22 -
[4] - Quote
Jeanne Tivianne wrote:The in-game recruitment channel is the bottom of the barrel of recruitment options.
Instead of ranting here on the forums, why didn't you use this time to help that new pilot find one of the better resources?
I used my time to point this glaring issue out to the public, if you had nothing constructive to say why did you even post? |
Steijn
Quay Industries
963
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:20:37 -
[5] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:I wonder what the current conversion rate of trial accounts to paying accounts is.....it can not be good.
If they are CAS trial accounts and get to know about all the help that CAS noobs can get from the various CAS help channels (wh, mining, pvp, incursion etc.) then i would think the conversion rate is high. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:24:27 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Funny enough if I try to follow this sound advice I get a connection closed error. It seems I am not allowed to post in that particular forum section. |
Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1571
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:28:55 -
[7] - Quote
Well there are corporations that recruit brand new players, but you basically need to either come from reddit or just luck out with someone telling you before you quit, or be psychic
- The corp finder tool cuts off results after only 20 results (why?), - When the new player tag is selected it doesn't show either BRAVE, karma fleet, dreddit, or pandemic horde (I did get EVE UNI so, I guess that counts for something) - Also there are corporations and alliance under that tag I know for a FACT will turn 800k sp players away, so basically they are abusing the tag. - You can't find public recruiting channels because there's no channel index for custom channels to add themselves to - Recruitment channel is ebolaids and full of spam and scammers with zero moderation, I'd say it's existence actively causes harm rather than helps - Recruitment forum pushes threads to page 50 after a few days and has no way to sort by tags or interests apart from reading every single post title
Just some total no-brainer things that could be easily improved but for some reason aren't. |
Jeanne Tivianne
26
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:29:53 -
[8] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Jeanne Tivianne wrote:The in-game recruitment channel is the bottom of the barrel of recruitment options.
Instead of ranting here on the forums, why didn't you use this time to help that new pilot find one of the better resources? I used my time to point this glaring issue out to the public, if you had nothing constructive to say why did you even post?
I found my comment to be quite constructive, thank you. The fact that you believe the NPE issues are so unknown that you had to post a rant in GD, instead of in the thread that has already been made for it, shows just how much you actually care for the NPE.
How about you post properly before you tell others to post constructively? |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
900
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:31:23 -
[9] - Quote
i enjoyed my new player experience soo much i bought loads of plex and subbed my account, talked to people in local because i didnt know about the forums or these recruitment channels, i didnt really have much of an issue finding a corp at 900k sp
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
615
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:32:51 -
[10] - Quote
More and more I get to wonder if we shouldn't just point out that there's dozens of thousands of players who did not have the issues so many whine about........ did not need hand holding ........ and made it all by themwelves somehow. Makes you wonder what's different to them compared to those who can't make it, doesn't it?
omg i need to redo my picture!
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Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:33:44 -
[11] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:More and more I get to wonder if we shouldn't just point out that there's dozens of thousands of players who did not have the issues so many whine about........ did not need hand holding ........ and made it all by themwelves somehow. Makes you wonder what's different to them compared to those who can't make it, doesn't it?
So how many countless thousands do you see logged in day in day out? Especially new guys and not 10 years vets?
But hey lets pretend everything is ok and plant our heads in the dirt.... Thousands upon thousands of new people subscribe every day, problem is they do not subscribe to EvE. |
Steijn
Quay Industries
963
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:34:39 -
[12] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:More and more I get to wonder if we shouldn't just point out that there's dozens of thousands of players who did not have the issues so many whine about........ did not need hand holding ........ and made it all by themwelves somehow. Makes you wonder what's different to them compared to those who can't make it, doesn't it? So how many countless thousands do you see logged in day in day out? Especially new guys and not 10 years vets?
the reason for the decline in numbers is nothing to do with the title of this thread imo. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:37:17 -
[13] - Quote
Steijn wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:More and more I get to wonder if we shouldn't just point out that there's dozens of thousands of players who did not have the issues so many whine about........ did not need hand holding ........ and made it all by themwelves somehow. Makes you wonder what's different to them compared to those who can't make it, doesn't it? So how many countless thousands do you see logged in day in day out? Especially new guys and not 10 years vets? the reason for the decline in numbers is nothing to do with the title of this thread imo.
If new player experience was great it would make up for the the exodus of bitter vets and others... but I see fanboys refuse to see the issue.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
963
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:40:38 -
[14] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:If new player experience was great it would make up for the the exodus of bitter vets and others... but I see fanboys refuse to see the issue.
not so sure about that tbh. I know i no longer recommend Eve to anyone and im positive im not the only one that now doesnt. That has nothing to do with the NPE. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
900
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:40:56 -
[15] - Quote
so you're solution to the whole issue is give people 800k sp? dont you just think that this game is not a themepark game and actually requires a bit of thought and concentration which is what alot of people dont want?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Seven Koskanaiken
FinFleet Northern Coalition.
1571
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:43:54 -
[16] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:More and more I get to wonder if we shouldn't just point out that there's dozens of thousands of players who did not have the issues so many whine about........ did not need hand holding ........ and made it all by themwelves somehow. Makes you wonder what's different to them compared to those who can't make it, doesn't it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
83
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:46:56 -
[17] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:so you're solution to the whole issue is give people 800k sp? dont you just think that this game is not a themepark game and actually requires a bit of thought and concentration which is what alot of people dont want?
Are you a moron? By your very own account, it was easy for you to find a corp at 900k sp, the game used to have professions that actually gave you around 800k sp head start....
Jesus Christ even if the urge to troll is that strong at least do not make a fool out of yourself by contradicting withing minutes the very thing you said.
Oh wait you are Tri, mk V or VI is it? Explains everything! Now please ISD lock this since I have to realize that any discussion in EvE is pointless at least in GD and only serves the trolls. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Triumvirate.
900
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:53:31 -
[18] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Lan Wang wrote:so you're solution to the whole issue is give people 800k sp? dont you just think that this game is not a themepark game and actually requires a bit of thought and concentration which is what alot of people dont want? Are you a moron? By your very own account, it was easy for you to find a corp at 900k sp, the game used to have professions that actually gave you around 800k sp head start.... Jesus Christ even if the urge to troll is that strong at least do not make a fool out of yourself by contradicting withing minutes the very thing you said. Oh wait you are Tri, mk V or VI is it? Explains everything! Now please ISD lock this since I have to realize that any discussion in EvE is pointless at least in GD and only serves the trolls.
why are you even getting mad? well plenty of people succeed in this game with the current system so should everything be catered for the random few players who cannot play the game?
and please dont call someone a moron and single out an alliance when you are in an npc corp yourself because it makes you look a coward.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Carrie-Anne Moss
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
259
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:54:40 -
[19] - Quote
Why does everyone has such a hard on for newbros?
The new player experience has been terrible garbage for over 12 YEARS. SOMEHOW THE GAME STILL IS ALIVE.
Blow up the newbros. Scam the newbros. Give them a proper EvE experience, if they stay, this is the game for them. |
Jeanne Tivianne
29
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:55:58 -
[20] - Quote
This thread is going places.
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Steijn
Quay Industries
963
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:56:44 -
[21] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Why does everyone has such a hard on for newbros?
The new player experience has been terrible garbage for over 12 YEARS. SOMEHOW THE GAME STILL IS ALIVE.
Blow up the newbros. Scam the newbros. Give them a proper EvE experience, if they stay, this is the game for them.
or as you're in Brave, fly in Syndicate and let the noobs blow you up. |
Jack 'GUN' Morgan
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2015.07.03 13:59:48 -
[22] - Quote
I'm an actual new player, started 4 weeks'ish ago. I've never played before and I can provide my point of view of the new player experience....
Within 2 hours of being online a GM contacted me via in game chat and made sure I was OK and that if I had any questions to fire them off. He remained with me for about 30 mins. Told me about the recruitment tab/ channels along with the career agents. He was extremely helpful and something I've never seen before in any online game I've played.
Starting off in the middle of space was a OMGWT# do I do moment and if it wasn't for the GM I may not have subbed (which I've now done).
With regards to making ISK it seems good with the level of skills I have with which I can fly and the type of space I'm flying in at the moment, it scales IMO very well. I'm stealing cargo, salvaging wrecks, doing the odd missions along with some scanning.
Being recruited wasn't really an issue either, the GM pointed me in the direction of corps that were noob friendly too and who would accept a starter char.
I fully understand that the big corps dont want new players as they dont have time or the inclination to train and teach me what to do and that's just fine.
I would say one negative thing however about the new player experience is that the starting isk wasn't enough, the tutorial missions gave me ships and a couple of guns with some ammo but this wasn't nearly enough to cut my teeth into anything. The starter amount should be increased as as far as im aware its been the same since the game started and everything since then costs more?
Thanks for reading.
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Jeanne Tivianne
29
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:02:55 -
[23] - Quote
Jack 'GUN' Morgan wrote:I'm an actual new player, started 4 weeks'ish ago. I've never played before and I can provide my point of view of the new player experience....
Within 2 hours of being online a GM contacted me via in game chat and made sure I was OK and that if I had any questions to fire them off. He remained with me for about 30 mins. Told me about the recruitment tab/ channels along with the career agents. He was extremely helpful and something I've never seen before in any online game I've played.
Starting off in the middle of space was a OMGWT# do I do moment and if it wasn't for the GM I may not have subbed (which I've now done).
With regards to making ISK it seems good with the level of skills I have with which I can fly and the type of space I'm flying in at the moment, it scales IMO very well. I'm stealing cargo, salvaging wrecks, doing the odd missions along with some scanning.
Being recruited wasn't really an issue either, the GM pointed me in the direction of corps that were noob friendly too and who would accept a starter char.
I fully understand that the big corps dont want new players as they dont have time or the inclination to train and teach me what to do and that's just fine.
I would say one negative thing however about the new player experience is that the starting isk wasn't enough, the tutorial missions gave me ships and a couple of guns with some ammo but this wasn't nearly enough to cut my teeth into anything. The starter amount should be increased as as far as im aware its been the same since the game started and everything since then costs more?
Thanks for reading.
I agree on the starting ISK. Maybe 50-100k instead of 5, to allow the purchase of some basic skill books?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11667
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:11:42 -
[24] - Quote
"EVE" (it's maker, CCP, as well as ti's community) does want new players, and everyone acknowledges that the "NPE" does and has always sucked. It was so bad that after my 1st day of trying it I didn't play again for a couple weeks till the guy who introduced me to the game brow beat me in to it lol. EVE can and should do better than that.
That being said, "EVE" needs the "RIGHT KINDS" of new player. Players with a sense of adventure, players who aren't looking for some angle to play the 'victim', players who are self starters and self motivators, who have a sense of personal responsibility rather than a sense of false entitlement. And players who are patient and mature rather than the stock immaturity and need for instant gratification of the majority of gamers.
The simple fact is that there are very few gamers that fit the above profile, and CCP isn't very good and finding those that do exist (instead choosing to advertise this game in places where 'normal gamers' ,who aren't compatible with this kind of game, tend to congregate). |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
16313
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:14:30 -
[25] - Quote
You get several million from the starter missions plus free ships.
Back when I started alI got was an ibis, 5000 isk and aura laughed at me when I died and called me a clumsy pilot.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
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Jeanne Tivianne
29
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:21:25 -
[26] - Quote
True and fair.
Maybe connecting Aura's starting bit (where you first spawn in space) to the rest of the tutorials via an actual mission would help? I remember starting, doing that first small task, and then not having any guidance until CAS directed me to the career agents.
I could be mistaken, as I also remember being heavily intoxicated when I started, as well. |
Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
616
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:22:23 -
[27] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Angelica Dreamstar wrote:More and more I get to wonder if we shouldn't just point out that there's dozens of thousands of players who did not have the issues so many whine about........ did not need hand holding ........ and made it all by themwelves somehow. Makes you wonder what's different to them compared to those who can't make it, doesn't it? So how many countless thousands do you see logged in day in day out? Especially new guys and not 10 years vets? But hey lets pretend everything is ok and plant our heads in the dirt.... Thousands upon thousands of new people subscribe every day, problem is they do not subscribe to EvE. I'm sorry but I don't speak nonsense. Stay on topic when you respond and leave your blind and dumb hate outside.
The situation is as follows: Most people who want it easier are proven to be incapable of doing the same things multiple tens of thousands have managed to do in the last decade. What does that tell us about these people who can't make it?
There is obviously an influx of newer players, but these players e incapable of doing what thousands of others did. If that doesn't tell you that it's not necessarily the game that's at fault, I would like to know your sensical, thought out opinion as long as you stick to factual reality.
What does it tell you about these people who can't do what an uncountable amount of people did before them?
omg i need to redo my picture!
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Haruchai Khan
Secretariat General of the Republic Fleet
24
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:32:49 -
[28] - Quote
I'm one of those new players - six weeks in - and my early experience does not quite fit the OP's characterisation.
The very first few days, I followed the Rookie channel quite closely. Whilst there are a lot of clowns, who are remarkably easy to spot, there are also several people who take their role as support very seriously and with just a few minutes of watching the scroll go by, you can judge who is being helpful. On their advice, I started the career agents, which was informative, after trying at first to follow the Opportunities and Aura - which was not remotely helpful. The two 'paths' are confusing, so I'd drop the Opps.
The interface is quite easy to get used to in travel terms. Not so much it's complexity, but that's taken care of by reading and practice.
The other group of astonishingly helpful people are the players in the New Citizens Q&A. I can;t thank them enough for encouragement when I was stuck.
I should also add that within about ten minutes of starting up, a GM from CCP contacted me on local and spent several minutes checking I had a bit of a clue and pointing me at resources. That was a superb customer service intervention, and made me feel very welcome.
After a few days, I saw a corp advert from what turned out to be great bunch of people, very keen to start with new players and enormously helpful. They got me into faction warfare and very early on, got used to the idea of losing my ships. After a while, it wasn't quite for me, but I have connected with a fair number of helpful players through looking at the Show Info on player profiles and just contacting them if they seem interesting.
I come from a long term home in the original sandbox game, Ultima Online (from the start, man and boy!) so I guess I was more used to being left to sort things out for myself. Without being prejudicial (as I've never played it, only read) perhaps players from far more structured games like WoW find the non-linear approach a tad confusing? Though Career Agents are pretty clear and set one up with ISK and ships rather neatly, so it ought to be simple. (interestingly for me, the OP's complaints are almost a mirror of the same 'keeping newbies' in UO - an old, old sandbox game grown so fearsomely complex that the jargon alone is prohibitive).
Skill points are a red herring in my very limited view. Whatever number one may start with, you're still going to be asking endless questions and required to read vast amounts of information before being remotely useful. Only corporations prepared for that level of interaction can properly accept newbies.
I would agree with Seven Kosanaiken in post #7 however: the corporation search tool is frustrating and severely limited results are mightily unhelpful. I am primarily a role-player, and not only do most corp adverts have no idea what RP is (so the filter for RP is basically useless) limiting the number returned means one will never find many new player friendly corporations unless you get the search terms perfect. Realistic TimeZones are also important. I realise that this is much to do with recruiters being lazy or throwing their nets wide to catch one in a hundred, but it is dispiriting for the 99. I've found it much more useful, as above, to click on players in the same space as me, and read about their corp there and then talk to them. Maybe that's by design?
Finally, EVE is a very different game from most. I think there will always be a significant fall out from new players discovering it's not quite what they want. That's probably good, since the winnowing process is harsh and probably needed. And I say that as someone who paid for a six-month sub, and still isn't sure that this is the game for him. I like finding out though. |
Jenshae Chiroptera
1793
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Posted - 2015.07.03 14:40:07 -
[29] - Quote
Seven Koskanaiken wrote:Just some total no-brainer things that could be easily improved. +1 (Like buttons don't appear any longer)
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
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High Sec needs a stepping stone to other spaces, where they can grow
Fozzie SOV is treating a symptom.
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Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
500
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Posted - 2015.07.03 16:02:33 -
[30] - Quote
The point is valid, but in your attempt to be "right" you allowed yourself to be swayed into insults and aggressive posting, which damaged your credibility.
NPE sucks, it's a fact.
Like I said last year, you buy the game, then you wait. |
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