Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.05 13:56:27 -
[1] - Quote
I Offer Transport of Items in Covert Blockade Runners, including Payloads delivery and Refueling.
We can increase the Fleets Sizes if Necessary for Additional Fees.
We have Black Ops Ships and Covert Cynos Ships available to safely Move the BRs back and Forth.
(We also have other Covert Ships available to Support this feat, including and not limited to Covert Ops Ships. Sisters of EVE Ships and Special Edition Ships are not inluded in the limit yet.)
(Sorry, we do not offer non-Covert Jump Freighter Size Cargo at this time.)
I expect the Competition to give me some feedback on this (rewards are offered if the informations are worthwhile). |
Lan Wang
V I R I I
919
|
Posted - 2015.07.06 19:17:12 -
[2] - Quote
is the service 1bil or is that the size of the collateral?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5157
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 11:09:01 -
[3] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:is the service 1bil or is that the size of the collateral?
I assume this service is 1b.
I've seen people offer services like this for collateralized moves of items like researched Titan BPOs or T2 ship BPOs, with collaterals in the low 12 figures and fees in the low ten figures.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|
GankYou
Redshield Holding Company
740
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 11:22:58 -
[4] - Quote
Twenty five BRs are needed to match one JF - can you compete with that?
Well, at least it's covert! Could be useful for some ninja POS refueling. Or maybe not.
...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤
[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Freighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
|
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 18:17:42 -
[5] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:is the service 1bil or is that the size of the collateral? No, it was 1 billion cost minimum. No Collateral at this time. No Insurance at this time.
Maybe, some investors are willing to offer insurance, depending. They may want to track loses and success records to adjust their rates accordingly.
The Collateral mechanic of the game allows for some security but I would not pay collateral to offer this service.
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I
921
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 18:40:34 -
[6] - Quote
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote:Lan Wang wrote:is the service 1bil or is that the size of the collateral? No, it was 1 billion cost minimum. No Collateral at this time. No Insurance at this time. Maybe, some investors are willing to offer insurance, depending. They may want to track loses and success records to adjust their rates accordingly. The Collateral mechanic of the game allows for some security but I would not pay collateral to offer this service.
hmmm sounds like a scam, why should we use this service over red,black,green,blue, whatever frog?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research Create Alliance
612
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:26:36 -
[7] - Quote
Why would anyone choose you over Black Frog? They offer up to 20b collateral while prices start around 100m for a single cyno JF contract.
WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs
WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
|
Almiel
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
24
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 19:42:44 -
[8] - Quote
So to quickly summarize....
Give you all my stuff to haul no collateral AND give you 1 billion ISK
Pontryvel, if anyone falls for this can you please please PLEASE post the follow-up mails from the person wanting their stuff back? I need some good reading material for the summer. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5169
|
Posted - 2015.07.07 23:19:33 -
[9] - Quote
Almiel wrote:So to quickly summarize....
Give you all my stuff to haul no collateral AND give you 1 billion ISK
Pontryvel, if anyone falls for this can you please please PLEASE post the follow-up mails from the person wanting their stuff back? I need some good reading material for the summer.
/signed.
1b isn't a bad price if the collateral is around 100b (small parcel, interceptor friendly) or 20b (full JF load).
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
85
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 15:54:11 -
[10] - Quote
Without collateral, why on earth would I give anything to a service I have never heard from before and has no testimonials?
Scam smells like a scam |
|
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 16:27:56 -
[11] - Quote
Do you mean that Black Frog or other services are offering to pay Collateral to move Items?
I do not offer to pay collateral. I will simply refuse to fall to gank squads mechanics. I will not take responsiblity for the risk of getting destroyed with your cargo. Either you insure your items / cargo or you don't.
I already run the risk to lose ovr 1b ISK to 10b ISK accepting to move items, and the time it takes, plus risk calculation to derive costs.
I do not work for Black Frog, and if I did, I'd be under NDA for again, the same security risk.
I am not scamming, and I would not steal item or sell info on them. Simply not, if you have a service that can move your items covertly and pay collateral, then use them, not me.
I will be developing an insurance system and I'm willing to invest with investors to do it yes, but this will not be limited to collateral loss without private MD insurance.
(Please excuse the lenght of the last sentence above, I can break it down into 2 or 3 smaller ones if need be.)
Also, my schedule is extremely busy, and I may not be able to offer the same speedy delivery as Black Frog or other. so it will take me a few months to sort this up.
bb tomorrow... |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6341
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 16:45:27 -
[12] - Quote
The point people are making is that you offer no guarantee (beyond your word) that items will be delivered. Nothing stops you accepting to move a contract then just taking the items, neither does it mean you hold any liability should you fall asleep while travelling, and the price you charge is much higher. With PushX I can get a full JF from NPC delve to Jita with 10b isk collateral delivered within a week for 415m, Black frog can offer 20b collateral across the same distance for 740m. What possible benefit can you offer over other freight services to make yours worth the risk and price?
Quite honestly this whole thread comes across as a troll rather than a legitimate attempt at a service.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 16:59:59 -
[13] - Quote
Troll or this guy has never even looked at how to set up a courier contract and how collateral works with them. |
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 17:01:26 -
[14] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:The point people are making is that you offer no guarantee (beyond your word) that items will be delivered. Nothing stops you accepting to move a contract then just taking the items, neither does it mean you hold any liability should you fall asleep while travelling, and the price you charge is much higher. With PushX I can get a full JF from NPC delve to Jita with 10b isk collateral delivered within a week for 415m, Black frog can offer 20b collateral across the same distance for 740m. What possible benefit can you offer over other freight services to make yours worth the risk and price?
Quite honestly this whole thread comes across as a troll rather than a legitimate attempt at a service. SOrry for the Quote of your post but 1. I do not offer JF service because I don't have one. 2. I give you my word that if I am asked to move items for my enemies into a trap that they have the right to do business elsewhere. 3. I have never taken an item after accepting a contract, let alone review a contract, besides your open ended clauses above. 4. I have never fallen asleep and I can also video record my trip for security audit reiew. 5. Why should I be liable for other's traps? Nice try but no. I can ask Black Frog how they get their collat back..? 6. I heard of PushX too but I forgot their offer and again, I do not offer JF for the reason mentionned above. 7. If it's worth it to get a JF then I'd do it, until then, it's just not worth it for me yet. 8. I offered Black Ops, Covert Jump services, and that can include 2 trips or more if the conditions warrants it. (Simple Arithmetic : 415m x 3 = 1.235b ISK + 740m x 2 = 1.480 b ISK.) 9. I do not offer benefit over freight services since I offer delivery in war zone with Covert Cyno (yes, I Pontryvel won't fly this mission, I'm just a forum / com officer). 10. The reason the clause in case of war, doesn't apply in the same way is because Blockade Runners are equipped to run in war fronts. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research Create Alliance
612
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 17:36:42 -
[15] - Quote
These are your characters right?
https://forums.eveonline.com/profile/Veine%20Miromme https://forums.eveonline.com/profile/Dosi%20Kusoni https://forums.eveonline.com/profile/Vis%20Aldent https://forums.eveonline.com/profile/Oiras%20Isimazu https://forums.eveonline.com/profile/Buzz%20Orti
WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs
WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
|
Almiel
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
25
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 17:42:07 -
[16] - Quote
You are free to create any business you like using whatever business model you choose. What people here are saying about your model is, well it stinks. Nobody should use your services because this is Eve and you offer no guarantee other than your word. Again, this is Eve and without a background reputation your word is of quite a low value.
You want to create a startup? Then make the sacrifices and take the risks yourself rather than trying to offload them on your clientele till you gain public trust. |
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 17:54:02 -
[17] - Quote
Almiel wrote:You are free to create any business you like using whatever business model you choose. What people here are saying about your model is, well it stinks. Nobody should use your services because this is Eve and you offer no guarantee other than your word. Again, this is Eve and without a background reputation your word is of quite a low value.
You want to create a startup? Then make the sacrifices and take the risks yourself rather than trying to offload them on your clientele till you gain public trust. What guarantee would I get from you that once I develop a model which you request it would be better than your wprd? What about a numerical value to compare on a scale of -1 to 6?
2. I didn't create a model. 3. I think I prefer you don't get my work to stink. 4. Nobody should use my services if all they they want is to fight me, because I would implement ways to keep their items as compensation for damage .
5. For instance, I organize a background reputation to be implemented from my work and present it. Then, it's again attacked, and proof of justification to discredit the service in spite of unfair competition erupts. Who will clean up the lava damage, or do you plan to offer PI raw material?
I will not offer a public trust service for covert actitivy, those 2 principle would conflict internally against the less moral nature of the dirty service. Thanks but, due to increased risks, the model needs to be more simple. Otherwise, the clients would not be able to benefit and clutter would administer the competition to run me into the ground.
6. By the way, it costed me more than a Titan's worth already, and I did invest it myself yes, not by trying to make others look bad. I understand that eternal conflict can require covert activity. |
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy Caldari State
54
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 18:04:06 -
[18] - Quote
Do you understand how collateral works with courier contracts? |
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 18:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alexi Stokov wrote:Do you understand how collateral works with courier contracts? yes, I understand, you refer to the ingame contract sub-program, including the public contracts.
However, Time is of the essence and trolls love to attack when there's no time. It fuels their chance at hostile takeover.
Draft Cargo Insurance Public Offering Structural Setup.
|
Lan Wang
V I R I I
924
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 19:16:45 -
[20] - Quote
what exactly is the advantage of using a covert ship over a jump freighter? i dont get what this whole covert business is all about.
this isnt trolling this is simply questioning your business model and why we should risk you over other services, if you consider legitimate questions trolling then i wouldnt expect very much business
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
|
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
85
|
Posted - 2015.07.08 20:58:34 -
[21] - Quote
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote: SOrry for the Quote of your post but 1. I do not offer JF service because I don't have one. 2. I give you my word that if I am asked to move items for my enemies into a trap that they have the right to do business elsewhere. 3. I have never taken an item after accepting a contract, let alone review a contract, besides your open ended clauses above. 4. I have never fallen asleep and I can also video record my trip for security audit review. 5. Why should I be liable for other's traps? Nice try but no. I can ask Black Frog how they get their collat back..? 6. I heard of PushX too but I forgot their offer and again, I do not offer JF for the reason mentionned above. 7. If it's worth it to get a JF then I'd do it, until then, it's just not worth it for me yet. 8. I offered Black Ops, Covert Jump services, and that can include 2 trips or more if the conditions warrants it. (Simple Arithmetic : 415m x 3 = 1.235b ISK + 740m x 2 = 1.480 b ISK.) 9. I do not offer benefit over freight services since I offer delivery in war zone with Covert Cyno (yes, I Pontryvel won't fly this mission, I'm just a forum / com officer). 10. The reason the clause in case of war, doesn't apply in the same way is because Blockade Runners are equipped to run in war fronts.
If you are confidant in your business model and in game ability, why not offer collateral to prove someone can trust you? You won't get any customers whatsoever if you don't build a reputation, and you will never build a reputation for a service like this without offering some sort of guarantee that people like me won't lose everything by trusting you. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6346
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 07:07:37 -
[22] - Quote
Reading this thread is like witnessing an acid trip.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.09 16:22:31 -
[23] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:what exactly is the advantage of using a covert ship over a jump freighter? i dont get what this whole covert business is all about.
this isnt trolling this is simply questioning your business model and why we should risk you over other services, if you consider legitimate questions trolling then i wouldnt expect very much business
Cidanel Afuran wrote:If you are confidant in your business model and in game ability, why not offer collateral to prove someone can trust you? You won't get any customers whatsoever if you don't build a reputation, and you will never build a reputation for a service like this without offering some sort of guarantee that people like me won't lose everything by trusting you. I'm preparing replies but since it got so complicated , it'll require more time from me to be able to simplify it.
I'll add this for now: The insurance is a channel or a medium meant to convey a sense of trust or confidence as collateral do. Please be aware that collateral themselves offer less freedom in the prevention of damage. It is too easy for covert business to use collateral to attack cargo. In fact, the insurance scheme is meant to prevent backstabbing from clients.
It doesn't mean that I will trust risking 10b or 20b because I have concluded 10b or 20b business with a potential client. I will most likely not, since it would be too easy to steal and try to steal my work, income (and assets).
Also, the reputation part is more related to the insurance, as the client's reputation is expected to change the outcome as well.
As for Covert Advantage over Jump Freighter, this thread is not meant to go over that. I can start another thread to discuss differences between the 2 services but I do not see competition between the 2 since they are different service. Of course there are related competition in the sense of cargo freight delivery but my offer is also not related to this.
This competition is in fact more attuned to what a Jump Freighter service would be a part of , systematically speaking.
3. The general differences lie in that covert transports and movement are harder to detect by D-scan. It offers more freedom for movement , undetected movement, and it is still traceable, and can be tracked.
I could go into more detail but I will leave that for another thread since it may shed too much light on security vulnerability. Enemies can exploit those and try to counter-attack the gained safety of the systematic transport method.
4. The offer is meant to be contracted and accomplished.
No collateral are offered since I do not seek to build customer relation based on collateral.
If they do not want to use my service, I am not willing to offer to risk my assets to provide them.
I already incurred enough risk as it is to get the covert fleet that I do not see or have any benefit in that.
The insurance will offer me the leeway necessary to make this possible without locking me in a predicament. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6351
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 06:47:12 -
[24] - Quote
Well then nobody is going to use your service, it;'s that simple. Nobody is going to trust you with their stuff with no collateral, paying a higher amount for a delivery just because you choose to use a cheap ship to do it. Your competitors move more for cheaper and guarantee it's delivery. Your service has no conceivable benefits, it's really that simple.
Good luck!
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 18:37:05 -
[25] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Well then nobody is going to use your service, it;'s that simple. Nobody is going to trust you with their stuff with no collateral, paying a higher amount for a delivery just because you choose to use a cheap ship to do it. Your competitors move more for cheaper and guarantee it's delivery. Your service has no conceivable benefits, it's really that simple.
Good luck! No time to reply until after 6 AM tomorrow.
But I will add this: I simply didn't published the offer to compete against or for other services including JF or Blockade Runner Covert Jump ability. I invited the competition to post in this thread and it sure seems they did although replies seemed more like, clients will prefer the competition, rather than state, we are competitors and so on... (I forgot how I presented the invitation at this time and will try to verify tomorrow, on schedule.)
As for the items being moved without collateral and trust, I have seen this done in specific condition and it is perfectly sane and viable. Of course there are factors related to security, and I believe my cargo insurance offer will cover that even though it won't be necessary since I may offer other forms of security. =ƒÆ¦ |
solarius lunarian
BHE holdings Heimatar Alliance Treaty Organization
10
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 18:40:14 -
[26] - Quote
Speaking as someone who does both jump freight and blockade running in NPC nullsec and
You don't really have a business model, you are asking your client to take on an unreasonable amount of risk for the service you provide. You are looking at this deal completely from your own perspective and not the people who would use your service
Part of the skill of being a trader or courier is to be able to easily identify likely scams or bait contracts and not take them, if you do accept it, then find a way to complete it while still avoiding the ganks, don't accept contracts with false collateral. Your insurance scheme doesn't make sense, why would a client accept less than full collateral??
You are misunderstanding your role as a courier, you are being payed to take the risk of hauling the goods from the client from point A to point B, if you don't offer collateral there is no reason for a client to pay you this fee because you haven't taken on any risk at all.
the problem with this equation is that you don't ever take any real risks, you want your clients to insure their own goods WHEN THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE PAYING YOU FOR.
if you don't trust your own ability to avoid ganks, recognize scams/setups and safely get good where they need to go WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOUR CLIENTS TRUST YOU |
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 18:49:42 -
[27] - Quote
solarius lunarian wrote:Speaking as someone who does both jump freight and blockade running in NPC nullsec and
You don't really have a business model, you are asking your client to take on an unreasonable amount of risk for the service you provide. You are looking at this deal completely from your own perspective and not the people who would use your service
Part of the skill of being a trader or courier is to be able to easily identify likely scams or bait contracts and not take them, if you do accept it, then find a way to complete it while still avoiding the ganks, don't accept contracts with false collateral. Your insurance scheme doesn't make sense, why would a client accept less than full collateral??
You are misunderstanding your role as a courier, you are being payed to take the risk of hauling the goods from the client from point A to point B, if you don't offer collateral there is no reason for a client to pay you this fee because you haven't taken on any risk at all.
the problem with this equation is that you don't ever take any real risks, you want your clients to insure their own goods WHEN THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE PAYING YOU FOR.
if you don't trust your own ability to avoid ganks, recognize scams/setups and safely get good where they need to go WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOUR CLIENTS TRUST YOU again , you reply when I have to go to work and cause delays + get me late no time until after 6 am for this |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research Create Alliance
615
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 19:11:06 -
[28] - Quote
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote:solarius lunarian wrote:Speaking as someone who does both jump freight and blockade running in NPC nullsec and
You don't really have a business model, you are asking your client to take on an unreasonable amount of risk for the service you provide. You are looking at this deal completely from your own perspective and not the people who would use your service
Part of the skill of being a trader or courier is to be able to easily identify likely scams or bait contracts and not take them, if you do accept it, then find a way to complete it while still avoiding the ganks, don't accept contracts with false collateral. Your insurance scheme doesn't make sense, why would a client accept less than full collateral??
You are misunderstanding your role as a courier, you are being payed to take the risk of hauling the goods from the client from point A to point B, if you don't offer collateral there is no reason for a client to pay you this fee because you haven't taken on any risk at all.
the problem with this equation is that you don't ever take any real risks, you want your clients to insure their own goods WHEN THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE PAYING YOU FOR.
if you don't trust your own ability to avoid ganks, recognize scams/setups and safely get good where they need to go WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOUR CLIENTS TRUST YOU again , you reply when I have to go to work and cause delays + get me late no time until after 6 am for this
It's pretty funny that you want your clients to take all the risk while paying you several times the going rate and you expect people to wait until you're ready before they post a reply then blame them for your inability to walk away.
WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs
WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
|
General Ivanvitch
Viziam Amarr Empire
5
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 19:16:17 -
[29] - Quote
You are aware there are different time zones of people that are allowed to post ..... Plus these wonderful inventions called cellphones that let you post from work? |
Lan Wang
V I R I I
964
|
Posted - 2015.07.10 19:22:06 -
[30] - Quote
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Well then nobody is going to use your service, it;'s that simple. Nobody is going to trust you with their stuff with no collateral, paying a higher amount for a delivery just because you choose to use a cheap ship to do it. Your competitors move more for cheaper and guarantee it's delivery. Your service has no conceivable benefits, it's really that simple.
Good luck! No time to reply until after 6 AM tomorrow. But I will add this: I simply didn't published the offer to compete against or for other services including JF or Blockade Runner Covert Jump ability. I invited the competition to post in this thread and it sure seems they did although replies seemed more like, clients will prefer the competition, rather than state, we are competitors and so on... (I forgot how I presented the invitation at this time and will try to verify tomorrow, on schedule.) As for the items being moved without collateral and trust, I have seen this done in specific condition and it is perfectly sane and viable. Of course there are factors related to security, and I believe my cargo insurance offer will cover that even though it won't be necessary since I may offer other forms of security. =ƒÆ¦
the only way this is acceptable is within alliance logistics programs (if thats a thing) if i wanted something expensive moved i would use redfrog etc because they offer collateral and a guarantee that if i lose it then i get something back, i wouldnt use a service to move something expensive at a crazy price with no collateral. ps i have no alts so i rely on logistics services i trust or offer collateral.
sorry i dont see any benefit to your service, unless you offer collateral you will get very little business when the competition is so tight. the competition wont post because...why do they need to?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |