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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1155
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Posted - 2015.07.12 11:35:48 -
[241] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:To the part that giving big carrot for the null is good for the game. Really? Reducing the null WHs, increasing ISK earning possibilities, reducing jump drives range will made a perfect condition to grow safe regions. New sov with elink will be similiar to FW. Regions like Tenal or Omist will be very safe. Should they, Black Pedro? Why null is so great that it must deregulate whole new eden market? Giving sovereign null a slight boost in PvE income isn't going to "deregulate" the whole economy. Altering how exploration sites spawn so there slightly more or less sites isn't going to "deregulate" whole economy. All it will do is make is actually possible for a larger group of players to earn an income in the space that they have claimed instead of forcing them to farm incursions or FW missions on an alt.
If the new design for nullsec proves too safe and farmable or is flooding the economy with something, CCP has many levers they can pull to change things. But a vibrant and active null is extremely important to the long-term health of the game. There are not headlines in international newspapers about how some carebear mined his billionth unit of Veldspar or some explorer got really lucky running sites on the weekend. Players join this game to be part of the battle for this virtual universe and that struggle is most obviously epitomized by the nullsec sovereignty system.
That is why nullsec is "so great" and it is important for the continued health of the game for CCP to get this right. Players should be rewarded for taking and defending sov, or no one is going to put up with the effort of defending that space for very long. I agree it is a tough balancing act to get right such that the income in this space doesn't destabilize the whole economy, but these announced changes are really quite conservative and don't do much to increase overall player income, just make higher player densities more feasible.
Get over yourself. Like carebears everywhere you are fixated on your ISK. The game is changing and you might have to adapt. Arguing against change just because your source of income might be slightly diminished is really poor form. |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1755
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Posted - 2015.07.12 15:11:17 -
[242] - Quote
The only big danger on the horizon is the learning implant removal. That is a highly disruptive event when it comes to the economy. Still very needed and doable just tricky.
Leader of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal.
Creator of Burn Jita
Vile Rat: You're the greatest sociopath that has ever played eve.
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Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
486
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Posted - 2015.07.12 16:05:05 -
[243] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:To the part that giving big carrot for the null is good for the game. Really? Reducing the null WHs, increasing ISK earning possibilities, reducing jump drives range will made a perfect condition to grow safe regions. New sov with elink will be similiar to FW. Regions like Tenal or Omist will be very safe. Should they, Black Pedro? Why null is so great that it must deregulate whole new eden market?
Maybe there are more ISK earning opportunities by virtue of more combat anomalies, but it still doesn't make them good ISK earning opportunities.
Given the amount of set up, organization, maintenance, and defense that is required to have them, the income they afford is not really sufficient. It is still better to just have alts in FW space or doing HS incursions, even though now there is a reason to keep the military index high. I completely understand that more liquid ISK is a terrible idea, but there needs to be something more; they simply aren't competitive with other income sources until you start to multibox.
Income in null may be more accessible and available after these changes, but it still doesn't justify the hassle except for the largest organizations. I'm not sure what size alliance was considered 'right' for the new sov, but as it stands, it seems vastly more attractive for many to set up in lowsec or NPC null and outsource income, and just farm sov aspirants for content.
The available income should support the intended play style. FW and HS incursions/L4s way overcompensate the risks and costs of the HS and LS play styles, whereas the null anomalies really don't compared to risk, set up, and intended conflict scopes null is supposed to harbor.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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Anthar Thebess
1223
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Posted - 2015.07.12 17:53:14 -
[244] - Quote
CCP you are boosting PVE in Sov system by greatly boosting anomaly spawns in all systems.
What is most important , that the biggest boost get currently worsts systems :
In contrast, a fully upgraded -0.1 system would gain the following 15 anomalies in addition to those that already spawn there now:
+3 Havens, +1 Forsaken Hub, +3 Forsaken Rally Points, +2 Forlorn Hubs, +2 Hubs, +2 Forlorn Rally Points, +1 Port, and +1 Hidden Rally Point.
Why this is bad? Because this will directly affect number of escalations and faction spawns. Why this is bad for pirate LP stores? As almost every faction item you can get from LP store is also able to drop from escalation and faction spawn, currently the only item that is faction store specific ( so cannot drop ) is XL ammo. Ammo that is less and less desired ,and after sov changes it will be even less needed.
Currently LP price vary between Pirate LP stores, but for most of them it is getting closer and closer to 1.8k isk per LP ( after next patch this will drop even more) Usual LP payout for lvl 4 pirate mission is from 4 to 15k ( old missions) 20-25k ( burner missions)
Just for example FW mission payout at tier 4 or 5 give you 60-100k lp . What is also important , each of those items have high demand item that can easily give you around 1k is for LP.
Each change to escalation rate lead to lower and lower value of pirate lp stores. They urgently need balancing, by : - increasing LP payout for all non burner missions ( but this is bad direction ) - balancing pirate faction items, and moving more of them to pirate LP stores ( as almost for every lp store you can find something useful )
Without this most of the pirate lp stores will become even much less profitable , when compared to FW , incursions, or simple anomaly ratting.
People that want to live in NPC null regions are totally different people that desire to live in sov space. What is also important , they use this isk to harass people in all regions around them , and this means only one thing. More roaming gangs, more fights ... more content.
This increase of anomaly spawn , just shifted a lot of income from those groups to people inhabiting SOV space.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2580
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Posted - 2015.07.12 19:30:17 -
[245] - Quote
That assumes there is a sudden influx of people into null, rather than a condensing of existing players. If the latter, the increase is marginal. |
Anthar Thebess
1223
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Posted - 2015.07.12 20:04:38 -
[246] - Quote
Number of places you can havens will increase dramatically , and escalation from them. Remember that faction drops are mostly from faction spawns that also show up without escalations.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2580
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Posted - 2015.07.12 20:26:05 -
[247] - Quote
Are havens unique with escalations or drops? |
Vic Jefferson
The Greater Goon Clockwork Pineapple
486
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Posted - 2015.07.12 21:18:10 -
[248] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Are havens unique with escalations or drops?
Everyone wants to be doing Havens/Sanctums to get the 10/10 escalation, whereas the other escalations aren't even worth the time to do them. People were forced to do lower tier anomalies in crowded systems before, but with more total Havens/Sanctums, there will be more total escalations unless the rate is changed again.
Just changing the rate of escalations a few months back caused most dead space loot to lose ~50% of its value. It's really sort of sad because exploration as a profession really took a huge hit from that. Its also sort of sad, as escalations were the only thing that made sov pve at times more lucrative than HS incursions or FW, and yet now they are totally devalued, as is the loot from the reprocessing changes, so....sov pve is really in a bad spot.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X
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MadKing101
Interstellar ORE INC.
0
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Posted - 2015.07.12 21:49:04 -
[249] - Quote
will CCP ever listen? they are just ruining this damn game every day. Nerf wormhole for what cause? saving carebare?
u Nerf capital, then stupid sov macanics and now Wh so u can bring peace in even universe... ??????
u should name the guys responsible for this ..
**** my life |
Anthar Thebess
1223
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Posted - 2015.07.12 22:18:23 -
[250] - Quote
Yes the faction stuff will drop again, the same thing happened to pirate lp stores, but after this change they will be much worst in terms of actual payout than some of the higsec LP stores. There will be just not to many profitable items that you could actually pull and sell.
Not checked , but for pirate faction stores i know , the only unique item you can get is XL ammo, and people will be using it less. What is also important stuff you can get from faction drops is in much bigger variety that you can actually get from LP store, adding all those items to faction store will reduce price of those items but will provide more different stuff that you can trade.
This is not perfect solution, but best one is rework of the lp stores, introducing new items, so a lot of work .
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
719
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Posted - 2015.07.12 23:18:40 -
[251] - Quote
Vic Jefferson wrote:Rowells wrote:Are havens unique with escalations or drops? Everyone wants to be doing Havens/Sanctums to get the 10/10 escalation nah |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
313
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Posted - 2015.07.13 06:28:38 -
[252] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Giving sovereign null a slight boost in PvE income isn't going to "deregulate" the whole economy. Judging from your previous posts in this thread you have no idea how economy works in this game, so that's just your wishfull thinking.
Black Pedro wrote:If the new design for nullsec proves too safe and farmable or is flooding the economy with something, CCP has many levers they can pull to change things. Like they did with data sites? They have problem with only one feature and you think they can handle economy in macro size? Just beacuse we need to buff nullsec? It's not like -5% on some hull.
Black Pedro wrote: Get over yourself. Like carebears everywhere you are fixated on your ISK. The game is changing and you might have to adapt. Arguing against change just because your source of income might be slightly diminished is really poor form.
This is main goal of exploration. Hit the jackpot. If there will be none of it there no point of doing sites, especially when they will be spawned by new nullsec upgrades. Loop, but you don't understand it. No, it's not like ppl don't do them and they will become worth more, data sites are moslty abbadoned and didn't increase in value. I have to adapt to what? For 2 years CCP fail to interest me in content named "pirates data sites".
Black Pedro wrote:There are not headlines in international newspapers about how some carebear mined his billionth unit of Veldspar or some explorer got really lucky running sites on the weekend. Players join this game to be part of the battle for this virtual universe and that struggle is most obviously epitomized by the nullsec sovereignty system.
Big If. I want healthy null, it's obvious. CCP want to lure players there and I hope they succeed by not nerfing other aspects of the game (maybe incursions and FW).
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5066
|
Posted - 2015.07.13 06:59:52 -
[253] - Quote
Another dev blog, and still no mention of the promised and greatly overdue Rorqual overhaul.
May 1st, 2014. Never forget, nor let CCP Fozzie forget. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1160
|
Posted - 2015.07.13 08:18:24 -
[254] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Judging from your previous posts in this thread you have no idea how economy works in this game, so that's just your wishfull thinking. CCP should really hire you. Someone who seems to have complete knowledge of how the most sweeping changes in nullsec in years are going to play out would be a valuable addition to the team.
The economy is a complex beast that will be influenced by many factors, most importantly how many people actually start living in nullsec. That number alone will completely dominate any effects on the economy, certainly compared to a slight change in the spawn location or number of spawns of exploration sites. I don't doubt there will be effects, but CCP has ways to tweak the economy. Certainly not buffing site spawning because it might impact one small portion of the economy is not an option - these changes are needed to make the space livable to large groups.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Like they did with data sites? They have problem with only one feature and you think they can handle economy in macro size? Just beacuse we need to buff nullsec? It's not like -5% on some hull. Again you are fixated on your ISK. This is a player driven economy, if players decide they like doing an activity, the value of the rewards from that activity will go down. CCP can tweak things a bit if they so choose, but ultimately it is the players that will determine the value of the rewards.
Buffing nullsec is needed. The economy will adjust. There will be winners and losers in that adjustment. Time to adapt friend - you can't stand in the way of progress.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:This is main goal of exploration. Hit the jackpot. If there will be none of it there no point of doing sites, especially when they will be spawned by new nullsec upgrades. Loop, but you don't understand it. No, it's not like ppl don't do them and they will become worth more, data sites are moslty abbadoned and didn't increase in value. I have to adapt to what? For 2 years CCP fail to interest me in content named "pirates data sites". I understand it perfectly. Some of those sites will now go to nullsec alliances. CCP is giving some of your candy to other players as reward for living in and defending a nullsec system. And like any small child you are here crying that someone has taken away your candy.
Let me make this clear. CCP knows it is taking some of your candy. They are doing it on purpose and not by mistake, all for a greater game reason. They have also left you plenty of other candy, but yet you are still here crying because you want all the candy. Get over it.
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Big If. I want healthy null, it's obvious. CCP want to lure players there and I hope they succeed by not nerfing other aspects of the game (maybe incursions and FW). They will not. Incursions will have to be changed, reworked, or nerfed - this is already underway (see: Drifter Incursions) and Sugar Kyle was talking about rumblings of a major Faction Warfare rework. Both of these farm-fests need to be toned back a bit to encourage players to participate in activities that actually generate content.
If FozzieSov is going to have a chance players have to see null as the place to make their living rather than relying on their incursion or FW alt. It's going to be a tough juggling act though so I wish them luck.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
313
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Posted - 2015.07.13 08:35:20 -
[255] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Again you are fixated on your ISK. Not on ISK, but on how exploration should look. What they propose is stagnation.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.13 10:06:21 -
[256] - Quote
Cross posting my GD thread here - because I can't be ****** typing it out all over again.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5882960#post5882960
doing what falcon told me to do v0v.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Anthar Thebess
1223
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Posted - 2015.07.13 10:31:38 -
[257] - Quote
I personally hate Burner missions. 1. They lock you from using specific ships - as they become easy and unbalanced at this point, but when you put word "alts" into the equation , they are unbalanced in any possible way. 2. They pretend to teach you PVP under the c0ver of PVE content , but best fit to do it , is utterly worthless for any PVP , most of them don't have any prop mod , or EHP buffer. 3. Because this repetitive PVE content , you can just farm them.
There is no easy way to find the balance. From my perspective , constant inflation and changes enforced by CCP ar ruining game.
We have rich and experienced people from one side and poor new players from the other side. When i started to play eve , we had : - mixed fleets, - battle cruiser fleets
It was hard for me to earn 100mil , but this 100 mil allowed me to lose 5 battle cruisers , thanks to insurance. Now , we have specialized fleets: - 1-2 basic dps hulls ( T2 ahacs , faction battleship, T3 Cruisers) Each lost ship is 150 to 400mil lose - so something that is totally out of range for a new player.
You could think , that anomaly income was boosted, but actually it was not. It was just made more available to bigger group of people in one system, and in one constellation. This is good , but at the same time you need to still spend a lot of time of farming this anomalies to get isk.
New players are happy to get 15mil ticks, so this is around 45mil per hour. So when this new guy need to buy himself a T2 hac, he need to rat for 3 hours , and then lose it in 5min during fleet - as you know , worst skills, less experience....
I told this more than once. We need to : - make T1 battle cruisers and battleships worth to be used in fleets again - reduce the cost of T1 battleships - bring back mixed fleets ( nothing is so demotivating like email stating, "we shift doctrines from caldari to amarr , buy zealots" - when you finished training necessary skills to use caldari doctrine ships 3 days ago , and zealot skill plan states 3 months)
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
313
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Posted - 2015.07.13 11:01:17 -
[258] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:I personally hate Burner missions. When puzzles are figured they may become boring. Null need missions, for solos and groups. Anoms are the most boring part of PvE ever. I tried to do them in null with rattle. After 3 days I've started to wonder what I'm doing with my life. I can't imagine someone could be doing them on daily basis, only mining was more boring, I even felt asleep once.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
581
|
Posted - 2015.07.13 11:37:55 -
[259] - Quote
Well I would conjecture that if losing 400mil ships is expensive for you then perhaps change your doctrine to one that utilises less expensive ships.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Anthar Thebess
1223
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Posted - 2015.07.13 12:42:44 -
[260] - Quote
It is not expensive for me. Some hint even , dps ships have no SRP , so all go from my wallet . I can manage it , but it is hard for new players. Yes they can join some big blob that will even SRP lost ratting ships, but i think whole point of all current changes is to move away from blobs.
CCP stated at some point , that battleship fleet should be rare , but i don't think that by this CCP wanted battleships to be rare because they are much worst than hac/t3 cruiser fleets.
Capital Remote AID Rebalance
Way to solve important nullsec issue. CSM members do your work.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
11750
|
Posted - 2015.07.13 12:54:40 -
[261] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:I personally hate Burner missions. When puzzles are figured they may become boring. Null need missions, for solos and groups. Anoms are the most boring part of PvE ever. I tried to do them in null with rattle. After 3 days I've started to wonder what I'm doing with my life. I can't imagine someone could be doing them on daily basis, only mining was more boring, I even felt asleep once.
I do them on a daily basis, and i love it.
For me, the keys to the fun is not getting caught by neutrals, getting faction spawns and escalations (traveling for the escalations can be harrowing), finding new ways to do them (I'm having fun with Dual FoF missile Ravens right now, Machariel plus fof FoF/Sentry Fleet phoon is what I do when i really want to rake in isk and escalations) and the fact that they are a million times less tedius than missions (which make you dock and undock all the damn time) helps too.
Like mining it isn't for everyone, but as always, "fun" is subjective.
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
945
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Posted - 2015.07.13 14:56:24 -
[262] - Quote
Anom changes: off the cuff it looks like each good system will support twice the ratters and lesser systems a ratter here and there. Call it double the ratters for the sake of argument.
Data/relic and plexes changes: twice as much exploration in nullsec.
WH changes: you say they are:
Quote:intended to ease some of the concerns around WH power projection without negatively impacting wormhole residents or eliminating the ability of Nullsec entities to roam through wormholes.
in a post phoebe world power projection is a joke and far more tedious. Now a nerf to WH power projection. You guys are chaining an anchor to everyone these days... what gives?
So basically you are doubling the amount of ISK that comes out of nullsec and nerfing movement into and out of it via wormholes.
All I can say is I hope this new entosis link capture the flag/whack a mole sov system works out like you are hoping because if its the reason for all these changes and it doesn't play out like you want... the effects of these changes will only solidify the positions of the stagnant nullsec for many years to come.
Not today spaghetti.
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Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
719
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Posted - 2015.07.13 18:56:45 -
[263] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:Quote:intended to ease some of the concerns around WH power projection without negatively impacting wormhole residents or eliminating the ability of Nullsec entities to roam through wormholes. in a post phoebe world power projection is a joke and far more tedious. Now a nerf to WH power projection. You guys are chaining an anchor to everyone these days... what gives? "power projection that i can't do is bad, but power projection i can do should not be nerfed"
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2580
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Posted - 2015.07.13 21:49:27 -
[264] - Quote
This is the only true crime of the devs |
Promiscuous Female
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
720
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Posted - 2015.07.13 22:51:37 -
[265] - Quote
guys we must preserve the battle functionality of the rorqual at the cost of making it unsuitable for every possible task it actually excelled at by castrating its jump range |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
313
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Posted - 2015.07.14 06:25:46 -
[266] - Quote
So CCP what are the stats on Survey Networks and Entrapment Arrays? Nothing here, nothing on patch notes. Is it top secret information?
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Sodamn In-sane
Phorever People
5
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Posted - 2015.07.14 08:09:35 -
[267] - Quote
Rowells wrote:This is the only true crime of the devs
i think they sacked the guys doing the rorqual upgrade and employed someone else that then thought banning isboxer for the miners would solve any future requests on the promised "special" rorqual changes..
back to playing capture the space flag
Fozzie
job change is good but you're still a muppet
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6723
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:04:14 -
[268] - Quote
Promiscuous Female wrote:guys we must preserve the battle functionality of the rorqual at the cost of making it unsuitable for every possible task it actually excelled at by castrating its jump range Mmm, castration...
Helps stimulate the JF indsustry at least
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6723
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:05:54 -
[269] - Quote
Sodamn In-sane wrote:Rowells wrote:This is the only true crime of the devs i think they sacked the guys doing the rorqual upgrade and employed someone else that then thought banning isboxer for the miners would solve any future requests on the promised "special" rorqual changes.. back to playing capture the space flag High stakes sov warfare.
Now with sov lasers instead of Large Energy turrets.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5509
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Posted - 2015.08.03 00:23:55 -
[270] - Quote
I can usually gauge how good a decision CCP makes is by measuring the level of complaint about it from large nullsec alliances.
This one ranks about a 9.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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