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Gandalf theGrey
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.07.12 15:45:13 -
[1] - Quote
Hello fellow capsuleers,
I've been wanting to run low sec (and maybe even null sec) complexes for a while now and I recently started training skills for the Ishtar. I found some fits but most of them are shield fits which aren't the same after the changes to the ship (-1 mid, +1 low slot). I don't know which pirate faction's sites I should run but I guess that Guristas/Serpentis would be my best bet because of the Ishtar's high base resists, but since Gurista low sec is so crowded I suppose that Serpentis is my only real option.
Making a fit that works without even knowing how much tank and DPS I need is pretty hard for me, but I tried making 2 fits - one is shield tanked and the other is armor tanked.
[Ishtar, Ishtar shield serpentis]
Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II Capacitor Flux Coil II
Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Improved Cloaking Device II Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Drone Link Augmentor I [Empty High slot]
Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II
Federation Navy Garde x5 Federation Navy Ogre x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5 Federation Navy Hammerhead x5
Tanks 851 Serpentis DPS Deals 606 DPS at my skills, will be slightly higher when I finish Gallente Cruiser V Costs around 325 million ISK
[Ishtar, Ishtar armor serpentis]
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Drone Damage Amplifier II Centus B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Drone Damage Amplifier II Centus B-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Drone Navigation Computer II Cap Recharger II Omnidirectional Tracking Link II, Tracking Speed Script
Drone Link Augmentor II Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Improved Cloaking Device II [Empty High slot]
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Anti-Thermic Pump II
Federation Navy Ogre x5 Federation Navy Garde x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Federation Navy Hammerhead x5 Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5 Optimal Range Script x1
Tanks 723,6 Serpentis DPS - sacrificed a big chunk of my tank to fit the third drone damage amplifier Deals 573 DPS at my skills - will be a bit higher after Gallente Cruiser V Costs around 446 million ISK - might want a bit less bling
I'll most likely use faction heavy drones because of their superior DPS compared to sentries - will later upgrade heavies to T2. The shield fit has good DPS but no omnidirectional tracking links / drone navigation computers which benefit heavy drones and the armor fit has those but lacks DPS, especially if I want to tank it a bit more. Drone interfacing V and Heavy drones V will be my main goals after training for the ship itself.
So, here are the main questions that come to my mind:
1. Which pirate faction's sites are the best to run - easy to tank for and still deal damage while being in quiet space? 2. How much DPS tank and damage should I really have to be able to comfortably run the sites in low sec? 3. Are sentry drones worth it despite the major DPS drop and being unable to move? 4. Does anyone have a fit updated after the changes or ideas on how to make my fits better? 5. Is running sites in null sec a better idea?
I am stuck right now and I hope that you will help me with your knowledge. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1214
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Posted - 2015.07.12 18:16:15 -
[2] - Quote
i guess you're going for 3/10 and 4/10s
Ishtar is massive overkill for that kind of complex so you'll be fine whatever you do.
The shield ishtar: you know there's low slot versions of omnidirectionals?
Also just get a gila. |
Gandalf theGrey
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.07.12 18:59:14 -
[3] - Quote
I don't know why you thought that I would be running 3-4/10s in low sec, I was thinking more about 6/10s and such, maybe higher, don't know what the ishtar can handle. Didn't know about low slot omnidirectionals but the lack of drone nav comps would still be problematic. I do run 3-4/10s in my high sec gila but if I wanted to keep running these sites I wouldn't have created this thread. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2344
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Posted - 2015.07.12 19:47:22 -
[4] - Quote
Those fits should handle Serpentis 5/10s without much issue. The Serpentis 6/10 requires a specialized fit and will brutally murder either posted Ishtar. I'm frankly unsure what I'm going to do with that site at this point but a fully passive Ishtar used to do the trick. |
GordonO
Wide Open Throttle
134
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Posted - 2015.07.12 19:58:29 -
[5] - Quote
Get a gila, its way better as you can t2 active shield tank it and have a slot or 2 spare in the mids and still have a huge tank with 4 x dda's in the lows, if of course you specifically want to use sentries, ignore this :) This btw will also do great in null anoms.
I have a t2 fit passive tanked gila which I use for wh diving which has 2 dda's 2 x SPR, 50w neut and a warp disruptor which works like a charm in c2 wh's, just not sure it will do well in 6/10's as I would normally go with an active tank for them. But of course there is the test server you can try it on :)
... What next ??
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Gandalf theGrey
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.07.13 04:31:56 -
[6] - Quote
I've created a fit that could tank 1200 dps and by swapping out a drone damage amplifier that would go up to 1350 dps tank, but I abandoned the fit because of less drone damage. I could swap out the last DDA for 1600 mm plates for crazy EHP or another hardener. Would dropping down a mobile depot, orbiting it with the afterburner on and refitting for drone damage/tank crack the 6/10 and maybe higher?
I can't post the fit just yet because I'm typing on my phone |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2344
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Posted - 2015.07.13 05:10:38 -
[7] - Quote
You need a passive tank for the 6/10.
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sennen's_Tip
Edit: your fit will actually do the 7/10 just fine. It's much, much easier. Possibly the 8/10. Serpentis 6/10 is one of the harder complexes out there. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1216
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Posted - 2015.07.13 08:54:21 -
[8] - Quote
i just assumed 3/4 because of the fit. 5/10 could get hairy but is manageable but anything higher: no chance. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1289
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Posted - 2015.07.13 09:29:49 -
[9] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:You need a passive tank for the 6/10. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sennen's_Tip Edit: your fit will actually do the 7/10 just fine. It's much, much easier. Possibly the 8/10. Serpentis 6/10 is one of the harder complexes out there.
Confirming that the Serpentis 6/10 is no joke. Now, the Guristas 6/10 is one of the easiest complexes out there.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Gandalf theGrey
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.07.13 16:21:24 -
[10] - Quote
This is the flexible armor fit:
[Ishtar, Ishtar serpentis flexible]
Corpum C-Type Medium Armor Repairer Centus B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Drone Damage Amplifier II Centus B-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Centus B-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Drone Damage Amplifier II
Federation Navy 10MN Afterburner Cap Recharger II Drone Navigation Computer II Cap Recharger II
Drone Link Augmentor II Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Improved Cloaking Device II [Empty High slot]
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II
Federation Navy Ogre x5 Federation Navy Garde x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Federation Navy Hammerhead x5 Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5 Drone Damage Amplifier II x1 Centus B-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener x1 1600mm Steel Plates II x1 Omnidirectional Tracking Link II x1 Optimal Range Script x1 Tracking Speed Script x1 Centus B-Type Armor Thermic Hardener x1
At this setup the ship has 1113,6 DPS tank and 513 drone DPS at my current skills By switching out one drone damage amplifier for a kinetic deadspace hardener I get 1455,9 DPS tank and 435 drone DPS If I switch out the last drone damage amplifier for a thermic deadspace hardener I get 1914 DPS tank and 361 drone DPS Or if I switch out the last DDA for 1600 mm steel plates II I can get 164K EHP with same tank as second setup and DPS of third - would that buy me enough time for harder rooms or is it better to stick with one of the above setups?
All of the fits so far are cap stable but if I really need passive tank for the 6/10 I made a fit for that too:
[Ishtar, Ishtar serpentis 6/10]
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Pith C-Type Thermic Dissipation Field
Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Improved Cloaking Device II Drone Link Augmentor I [Empty High slot]
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Federation Navy Ogre x5 Federation Navy Garde x5 Federation Navy Hammerhead x5 Federation Navy Hobgoblin x5 Vespa EC-600 x5 Drone Damage Amplifier II x2
Tanks 1373,3 DPS, deals 361 DPS, or if I want to make if fully passive (no active hardeners) I get 1048 DPS tank.
Is it really worth using a specialized fit for 6/10 or could one of my armor tank setups do the trick? Even if my armor fit would get neuted out and die horribly is it worth changing my entire fit and destroying rigs or is it better to just avoid the site and run easier ones (ironically higher ded rated sites)? Also, what sites would I actually be able to run (maybe including unrateds) with which setups? |
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Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.07.13 17:00:09 -
[11] - Quote
No need to tank that much.
The following fit is tested for Serpentis 5/10, SErpentis 7/10, 8/10, 10/10 Gurista 6/10 (dont like them) Blood raider 5/10, 6,10
High: Improved Cloaking Device II Core Probe Launcher I, Sisters Core Scanner Probe Drone Link Augmentor I
Middle: 50mn MWD II 2* Cap recharger 2 (last place for anything you wish)
Low 3* DDA2 1600mm Steel plate 2 1 t2-hardener of your choice
Corpum C-Type medium armor repairer or Corpum B-Type medium armor repairer
Rigs: 1* medium capacitor control circuit 2 1* medium auxillary nano pump
Drones: 5* navy curator (you NEED them for blood raider 6/10 in room 3, the BS) 2 Geckos (if you are lazy like me and have enough money) some heavy/middle/small drones dont forget: 5* Vespa EC-600
In cargo: Mobile depot, some t2 hardeners (like 3 t2 EM-Hardener for the last room in blood raider 5/10) |
Gandalf theGrey
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.07.13 18:54:19 -
[12] - Quote
Thanks for the fit, I'll load it into pyfa and check out the possibilities. Also, what was the highest dps and tank you needed to complete the sites? The fact that you've done the null sec serpentis ded sites will probably make me go into null sec after training my drone skills for better dps, especially since I know some truly quiet places out there. |
Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.07.13 19:57:30 -
[13] - Quote
Gandalf theGrey wrote:Thanks for the fit, I'll load it into pyfa and check out the possibilities. Also, what was the highest dps and tank you needed to complete the sites? The fact that you've done the null sec serpentis ded sites will probably make me go into null sec after training my drone skills for better dps, especially since I know some truly quiet places out there.
you need some good engineering skills for this fit. (or 3% hardwiring upgrades, they aren't expensive) The highest dps is in the last room of the blood raider 5/10 site. Fortunately you only need to kill the boss, bookmark it's wreck and warp off. Wait 3 mins for the site to despawn and warp directly to the wreck (don't forget to salvage the wreck!)
For all other sites it's the same procedure. Read about the site and fully tank your ship. When you know the site you can take away your tank. The 1600mm plate gives you enough time to either warp off or flee from the incomming dps. As you can't tank the damage in most sites with 3 dda's in your lows. You don't need to! Use your plate(=time)+MWD to get some range and then either drop sentries (for frigates) or heavies/geckos.
and: -with ok scanning skills you can probe everything except the 10/10 site. You would need excellent skills for this. Which means you need another ship(like an imicus) or a scanning alt for it. It's worth it though. The serpentis 10/10 site is very easy ( use 60km range from the station in the last room + sentries!) and can give good loot. -the 8/10 serpentis site is doable BUT really really annoying. Just not worth the time. -the 7/10 site is easy it just takes some time to kill all those battleships.
I prefer the serpentis 5/10 or blood raider 5/10 and 6/10 sites. |
Sinnish Saken
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2015.07.13 23:03:38 -
[14] - Quote
For a change of scenery I'm switching from Gurista space over to Serpentis for a short while. Are neuts more common with Serpentis or is this fairly specific to this 6/10 site?
Guristas only use ECM, besides web/scram of course. Thought Serpentis only used sensor damps. Apparently I'm wrong? (very possibly) |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 02:32:25 -
[15] - Quote
Gandalf theGrey wrote:Is it really worth using a specialized fit for 6/10 or could one of my armor tank setups do the trick? Even if my armor fit would get neuted out and die horribly is it worth changing my entire fit and destroying rigs or is it better to just avoid the site and run easier ones (ironically higher ded rated sites)?
Personally? I'd just run the ones I can run. The Serp 6/10 is brutal and doesn't really pay any better than any other 6/10 -- and it's worse than Guristas, which is a cakewalk.
But at the end of the day, no, if you have active modules on your ship and are solo, you are pretty much dead in that site. Skip it. Or just keep a passive fit around to grab if you need it. I'd personally aim for over 1000 Serpentis-specific fully passive tank for the second site.
Sinnish Saken wrote:For a change of scenery I'm switching from Gurista space over to Serpentis for a short while. Are neuts more common with Serpentis or is this fairly specific to this 6/10 site?
Guristas only use ECM, besides web/scram of course. Thought Serpentis only used sensor damps. Apparently I'm wrong? (very possibly)
It's really just this one site. BR play cap warfare games, not Serps. Serps, as you note, damp (which they also do in the 6/10, making it even more annoying to take down the neut towers and/or lock tackle frigs in a timely manner). |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 03:04:25 -
[16] - Quote
Just noticed one more thing: Serpentis, despite popular opinion to the contrary, are weakest to kinetic damage. Enough so that you should scrap all but one set of thermal drones and swap them out for wasps/vespas/hornets. Math in spreadsheet form is here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dqzDomle5sFKkEYlxTfoPf6rmUb_8i9Luo9UWNxInr0/edit?usp=sharing
The reason you want one flight of (probably medium) thermal drones is this guy and his completely out of whack resists (compared to the rest of his Serpentis brethren). Contrast that with the 5/10 overseer, 6/10 overseer, or 7/10 overseer. All of them: weak to kinetic, enough to overcome the damage advantage of thermal drones. Just not the Phi Operation Protector. |
Gandalf theGrey
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 04:48:39 -
[17] - Quote
Now that's really good to know, I'll switch to kinetic. Also, do 7/10s spawn in low sec? Having a bunch of sites I'm able to run would be really nice. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 05:30:48 -
[18] - Quote
Gandalf theGrey wrote:Now that's really good to know, I'll switch to kinetic. Also, do 7/10s spawn in low sec? Having a bunch of sites I'm able to run would be really nice.
Ports and Hubs escalate to 7/10s, which may well spawn in low. But natively? No, null only. Low spawns 1-6/10 these days and you will be able to run 3-5 in an Ishtar (3-6 in other areas of space without killer 6/10s). Serpentis Annex is a bit buggy last I checked but it should be quite viable. Serpentis Minor Annex is a trip but also doable if you keep range in the second room. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
918
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Posted - 2015.07.14 12:57:27 -
[19] - Quote
Aplysia Vejun wrote:5* navy curator (you NEED them for blood raider 6/10 in room 3, the BS) Is the choice of more tanky faction drones over T2 deliberate or is it merely an option for no SDI V characters? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2346
|
Posted - 2015.07.14 16:28:02 -
[20] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Aplysia Vejun wrote:5* navy curator (you NEED them for blood raider 6/10 in room 3, the BS) Is the choice of more tanky faction drones over T2 deliberate or is it merely an option for no SDI V characters?
Curator IIs are fine. Actually, Garde IIs were still fine last I checked, though getting the right balance of range and tracking is easier with Curator IIs. |
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Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
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Posted - 2015.07.14 16:58:14 -
[21] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:Aplysia Vejun wrote:5* navy curator (you NEED them for blood raider 6/10 in room 3, the BS) Is the choice of more tanky faction drones over T2 deliberate or is it merely an option for no SDI V characters? Why navy sentries: -Much more tank. Very nice for some sites - especially the blood raider 6/10 site where T2 sentries tend to get killed in 3-4 seconds and also where normal drones can't be used (aggroswitch after 10sec). -less dps than T2 sentries, but much less training time needed. Sentries aren't really usefull anymore in pve.
why curators: - best against station shields where you have too shoot from 60+km distance.(like serpentis 10/10). And a tip: you don't HAVE to kill the station in the blood 6/10 site.
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Gandalf theGrey
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.07.14 19:10:30 -
[22] - Quote
How about the other 2 unrateds: provisional serpentis outpost and serpentis outpost? Are they even easier? Also, what is the loot like in low sec unrateds - does most of it come from the escalations? If so, is it worth going after them or is it better to stick to the ded complexes? |
Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
30
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 18:44:04 -
[23] - Quote
Gandalf theGrey wrote:How about the other 2 unrateds: provisional serpentis outpost and serpentis outpost? Are they even easier? Also, what is the loot like in low sec unrateds - does most of it come from the escalations? If so, is it worth going after them or is it better to stick to the ded complexes? Those sites are VERY easy. Just don't Forget: the trigger for the escalation isn't a ship.
The escalations are usually not worth it. Always 9 Jumps from one site to the next and mostly no loot at all. BUT they are fun once in a while. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
512
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 19:14:03 -
[24] - Quote
The Serpentis Logistical Outpost (6/10) is a horrible place that makes spaceships cry. I ran the first part and the first room of the second part in a mostly passive Ishtar with an MWD to pull range. For the final room I had to refit to a full passive propless Ishtar with 3 LSE's, 3 shield power relays and a thermal resist amplifier. Part 2 alone (Part 1 always escalates) has at least 30 battleships, with 5-6 neuting towers and 8 turrets in the first room and a high HP neuting starbase with 8 more turrets in the second. Part 2 took me almost two hours because I had to go refit and for my trouble I received an OPE drop and nothing else.
Not worth it. Highsec missions are far better ISK/hr and I don't have to dscan for combat probes every 5 seconds. The difficulty and risk of that site is prohibitive unless you have alot of blues around to ward off hostiles and perhaps even to help you run the site. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2349
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 05:29:25 -
[25] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The Serpentis Logistical Outpost (6/10) is a horrible place that makes spaceships cry. I ran the first part and the first room of the second part in a mostly passive Ishtar with an MWD to pull range. For the final room I had to refit to a full passive propless Ishtar with 3 LSE's, 3 shield power relays and a thermal resist amplifier. Part 2 alone (Part 1 always escalates) has at least 30 battleships, with 5-6 neuting towers and 8 turrets in the first room and a high HP neuting starbase with 8 more turrets in the second. Part 2 took me almost two hours because I had to go refit and for my trouble I received an OPE drop and nothing else.
Not worth it. Highsec missions are far better ISK/hr and I don't have to dscan for combat probes every 5 seconds. The difficulty and risk of that site is prohibitive unless you have alot of blues around to ward off hostiles and perhaps even to help you run the site.
I've only run it a half dozen times. Lost a Tengu and two Ishtars. I'm in the black from the site though; drops have been good to me.
It's definitely a challenge. Right up there with Minor Blood Annex (though that one is just... awful).
Oh, and it often escalates to null for the second site. Not sure that's been pointed out yet. One of my Ishtar losses wasn't in site per se, it was traveling back after running it. |
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