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Plato Aristocles
Plato Aristocles Trading Corporation
0
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Posted - 2015.07.15 19:21:25 -
[1] - Quote
I have compared navy issues and pirate ships but having hard times making the choice. Is it really worth the extra time training a second race battleship skill to fly a pirate ship? |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1232
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Posted - 2015.07.15 19:33:42 -
[2] - Quote
have the following ships in your hangar:
rattlesnake nightmare machariel
bring whatever ship suits the mission best |
Paranoid Loyd
6271
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Posted - 2015.07.15 19:41:02 -
[3] - Quote
Yes
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!!!
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Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3824
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Posted - 2015.07.15 20:01:49 -
[4] - Quote
Only buy all of those ships if you plan on grinding a hell of a lot.
Oh god.
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Amanda Chan
Error 404 Pod Not Found
35
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Posted - 2015.07.15 20:26:22 -
[5] - Quote
Plato Aristocles wrote:I have compared navy issues and pirate ships but having hard times making the choice. Is it really worth the extra time training a second race battleship skill to fly a pirate ship?
It really depends on you. Even though you're in Amarr space you won't always be shooting rats with a weakness to EM/Therm(i.e Angel rats). You could skill into a Marauder if you want to stick with a single Battleship skill or get some variety by skilling into a secondary race's BS skills for Pirate ships.
The biggest difference between a Marauder and a Pirate hulls is that the Marauder can get away with cheaper fittings due to strong tanking bonuses while Pirate hulls do more damage. That said Marauder hulls are without a doubt more expensive then Pirate hulls.
Outside of the Rattlesnake, the Marauders generally use less ammo then Pirate hulls as well.
Final difference is that it's easier to sit in a Pirate hull then a Marauder due to role bonuses. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10793
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Posted - 2015.07.15 21:56:08 -
[6] - Quote
ill further this
**** Yes
=]|[=
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Orlacc
870
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Posted - 2015.07.15 23:10:47 -
[7] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:have the following ships in your hangar:
rattlesnake nightmare machariel
bring whatever ship suits the mission best
This
"Measure Twice, Cut Once."
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Devasha Detrasha
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2015.07.15 23:38:22 -
[8] - Quote
This might be in the wrong section but anyways If you can multibox, then use the NMs. Dual NMs with tachyons+NavyMulti can tank & melt anything in Lev 4's effortlessly (yes including angel rats). |
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11131
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Posted - 2015.07.16 03:17:42 -
[9] - Quote
^^
Especially if you want to get into incursions at some point as a mission runner. I'd recommend x-training into Caldari.
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
335
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Posted - 2015.07.16 10:54:39 -
[10] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Yes Navygeddon
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GordonO
Caldari Provisions
139
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Posted - 2015.07.16 19:42:50 -
[11] - Quote
marauder > pirate > navy > t1.. in that order best to worst
... What next ??
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Arcos Vandymion
White Beast Inc.
97
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Posted - 2015.07.16 20:40:47 -
[12] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:bring whatever ship suits the mission best I can't find my Dominix between all those drones I bought for the price of a Machariel ...
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
748
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:00:22 -
[13] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:have the following ships in your hangar:
rattlesnake nightmare machariel
bring whatever ship suits the mission best
What she said.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
748
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:01:31 -
[14] - Quote
GordonO wrote:marauder > pirate > navy > t1.. in that order best to worst Marauders are only for pilots who cannot fly battleships properly
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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GordonO
Caldari Provisions
139
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:18:54 -
[15] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:GordonO wrote:marauder > pirate > navy > t1.. in that order best to worst Marauders are only for pilots who cannot fly battleships properly
pretty sure 100 years ago someone said using a train is only for those who cannot ride horses.
... What next ??
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1528
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Posted - 2015.07.17 03:49:04 -
[16] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:GordonO wrote:marauder > pirate > navy > t1.. in that order best to worst Marauders are only for pilots who cannot fly battleships properly Dunno, having an off button for NPC ewar, a T2 tank that performs like a size class up and not much need need to move the ship because you can apply damage decently out to 100km (800mm AC vargur falling slightly shorter) and an MJD cooldown reduction for when you do is kinda nice.
Also has more DPS for me due to not needing to fill more slots with tank out of the refusal to faction/deadspace fit. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
749
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Posted - 2015.07.17 07:40:03 -
[17] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:elitatwo wrote:GordonO wrote:marauder > pirate > navy > t1.. in that order best to worst Marauders are only for pilots who cannot fly battleships properly Dunno, having an off button for NPC ewar, a T2 tank that performs like a size class up and not much need need to move the ship because you can apply damage decently out to 100km (800mm AC vargur falling slightly shorter) and an MJD cooldown reduction for when you do is kinda nice. Also has more DPS for me due to not needing to fill more slots with tank out of the refusal to faction/deadspace fit.
Hmm.. While I get that electronic warfare can get frustrating sometimes, I see it as challenge. I have been jammed by Guristas for many years in my Raven - so what?
Then I see people making 546748742875642548675967204706516 whine thread how "unfair" that is because they cannot press F1 for 20 seconds - oh my..
If you fly a turret boat gunzz blazing into Sanshas, which you will know before you undock, you did not choose the right tool for the job at hand and I could not care any less about getting dampened by Serpentis when I sit in a blaster boat.
Pressing F1 every now and then is no challenge. Flying a ship right is.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1528
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Posted - 2015.07.17 09:28:13 -
[18] - Quote
Not sure I follow the logic. Being jammed in the past doesn't seem like any reason to continue to do so, not when now more or less completely avoidable. Personally I don't see any challenge in a chance based mechanic either way, save the choice to fit ECCM or not and deal with how it alters your fit. Otherwise you're just waiting when the roll doesn't fall in your favor.
Other ewar forms fall more consistently in effect, which provides all the more reason for the capabilities that marauders bring. Understandably they may not be to your taste, but they are neither bad ships nor ships for the incompetent because you personally like dealing with NPC ewar. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1293
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Posted - 2015.07.18 08:26:24 -
[19] - Quote
find the burner mission thread and use those ships, and then add a mach, kronos, and/or paladin on top.
personally I like 2 or 3 machs as switching fits is annoying, and machs are super cheap right now. I only have 1 mach in station right now and it annoys me. I like having an arty dps fit (EoM, stop the thief), arty nano fit (die scarlet), ac dps fit (general use), and an AC MJD fit (the missions with the things at 100km). With the saved fit feature swapping is better than it used to be, but I still don't like it. for the most part rigs are all warp speed, although a t2 rof rig on the dps arty fit is kinda nice.
if you are going to do the boring missions only, then probably just go with a mach, or maybe a paladin (or nightmare but less good) if you are in amarr space. and you probably have the skills to at least do some of the burner missions.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1293
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Posted - 2015.07.18 08:31:56 -
[20] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:elitatwo wrote:GordonO wrote:marauder > pirate > navy > t1.. in that order best to worst Marauders are only for pilots who cannot fly battleships properly Dunno, having an off button for NPC ewar, a T2 tank that performs like a size class up and not much need need to move the ship because you can apply damage decently out to 100km (800mm AC vargur falling slightly shorter) and an MJD cooldown reduction for when you do is kinda nice. Also has more DPS for me due to not needing to fill more slots with tank out of the refusal to faction/deadspace fit. Hmm.. While I get that electronic warfare can get frustrating sometimes, I see it as challenge. I have been jammed by Guristas for many years in my Raven - so what? Then I see people making 546748742875642548675967204706516 whine thread how "unfair" that is because they cannot press F1 for 20 seconds - oh my.. If you fly a turret boat gunzz blazing into Sanshas, which you will know before you undock, you did not choose the right tool for the job at hand and I could not care any less about getting dampened by Serpentis when I sit in a blaster boat. Pressing F1 every now and then is no challenge. Flying a ship right is.
getting jammed isn't a challenge, its a waste of 20+ seconds
paladin has the damage type and application for killing sansha. and a blaster boat usually requires wasting a lot of time flying around. the Kronos with a MJD is pretty sweet in some cases though. can't really say about serpentis specifically as I don't fly against them often enough.
most of the time a gun marauder is the right tool for the job, in the times it isn't then the tool is usually a mach.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
526
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Posted - 2015.07.18 20:52:20 -
[21] - Quote
Pirate BS can be extremely effective with the 2 racial BS skills just at lvl 4, as long as you have good skills in the proper weapons and tank. I'm flying my Mach with Gallente and Minmatar BS at 4; it was effective even with T1 guns and now with T2 I shred missions easily. 1080 DPS with hail, not including drones. And that will top 1200 if I ever get around to finishing some of the longer DPS skills remaining. 1080 DPS out to 45k, 950 with whatever damage type faction ammo may be required, 1500 m/s with MWD and maneuverability/warp speed of a cruiser.
If you actually know how to fly a ship and understand what transversal is, the Mach is a monster.
If you'd rather AFK with sentry drones, rattlesnakes are 350M ISK currently. I don't even have the skills for that hull and I picked one up for potential future use.
The only advantage I see with Marauders is ewar immunity and more tank than a pirate BS, two things you will almost never need. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1528
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Posted - 2015.07.18 21:24:38 -
[22] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The only advantage I see with Marauders is ewar immunity and more tank than a pirate BS, two things you will almost never need. All of the marauders also have an apparently often overlooked application bonus their pirate counterparts lack. The paladin will outrange a Nightmare, allowing higher damage crystals to be used farther. The Kronos similarly has a falloff bonus to help decrease the damage loss there at range, potentially meaning less travel in blaster fits. Vargur has tracking over the mach and the Paladin has a TP bonus.
All of the above also can do missions on a 3 slot, undersized tank leaving every other mid/low/rig slot to further push that damage and application. |
Demerius Xenocratus
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
526
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Posted - 2015.07.19 00:25:47 -
[23] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The only advantage I see with Marauders is ewar immunity and more tank than a pirate BS, two things you will almost never need. All of the marauders also have an apparently often overlooked application bonus their pirate counterparts lack. The paladin will outrange a Nightmare, allowing higher damage crystals to be used farther. The Kronos similarly has a falloff bonus to help decrease the damage loss there at range, potentially meaning less travel in blaster fits. Vargur has tracking over the mach and the Paladin has a TP bonus. All of the above also can do missions on a 3 slot, undersized tank leaving every other mid/low/rig slot to further push that damage and application.
You don't need tracking if you know how to manage transversal. Easy to do in a BS that flies like a cruiser + the standard shield mach has 3 TE and 3 faction gyros in the lows. And of course the warp bonus makes getting around so much quicker.
I think Marauders are still like 60 days training out for me; dunno why I'd need one except to make certain missions which have tons of ewar and DPS a bit easier, i.e. the assault and the jamming rats in dread pirate scarlet. Don't get me wrong marauders look neat but the amount of training you need to fly them is insane.
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1528
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Posted - 2015.07.19 06:45:27 -
[24] - Quote
The Machariel is the only pirate BS that warps faster than a marauder and is significantly more agile than a marauder.
The Nestor and Barghest each get one of those advantages, but neither is considered that good for missioning.
If the claim was about the Mach alone, sure, the agility and warp speed negate some need for additional tracking, but not all, and being at range while dealing the same damage, as in the case of the other pirate BS to marauder comparisons, will still yield better results. Considering the tracking is also reduced from stated on targets under 400m sig rad and rarely is anything at 0 angular velocity that tracking bonus adds up damage.
A Vargur can easily have 4 gyros and 3 TCs as well.
The mach singularly is a really good missioning ship, but not as far ahead of the vargur or paladin when the damage type is right as you make it seem. Against the other pirate BS's I'm not so sure the lead over marauders as a whole is as significant where it exists at all.
Also, as far as training AWU 5 is something you would want anyways and BS 5 only makes the mach better as well. Electronic upgrades 5 is more iffy admittedly unless you find yourself needing T2 RCU's regularly. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
358
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Posted - 2015.07.28 00:30:55 -
[25] - Quote
I use a Paladin for level 4 missions fitted with t2 pulse lasers.
In bastion mode (w/o drones) Scorch L = 120 optimal - 895 dps
Conflag = 58 optimal - 1170 dps
Otherwise I also sometimes use my Rattlesnake which has 1560 dps (Drones and cruise missiles combined) |
GordonO
Caldari Provisions
144
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Posted - 2015.07.28 01:33:26 -
[26] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:I use a Paladin for level 4 missions fitted with t2 pulse lasers.
In bastion mode (w/o drones) Scorch L = 120 optimal - 895 dps
Conflag = 58 optimal - 1170 dps
Otherwise I also sometimes use my Rattlesnake which has 1560 dps (Drones and cruise missiles combined)
You better of switching to faction crystals to match range than switching to scorch.
... What next ??
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Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
91
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Posted - 2015.07.28 09:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
More importantly dont do Amarr Navy Missions.
Do Ministry of Internal Order missions.
1. It gives you the standing needed for the epic arc. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/jowen/Amarr_Epic_Arc_guide_by_Jowen_Datloran_v1.0.pdf
2. Penirgman it has 2 Level 3 agents and a Level 4. (Level 3s are easier to blitz for better isk/hr)(Also has In house Storyline Agent) http://eve-agents.com/index.dxd?AgentName=&System=Penirgman&Region=-&Corporation=1000082&Faction=-&Division=24&Level=-&Skill=-&Locator=-&Storyline=-&FWAgent=-&Sort=7&Direction=0
3. Has access to the same LP store.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
56
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Posted - 2015.07.29 12:07:52 -
[28] - Quote
Is it even worth doing missions for Amarr, the LP store just plan sucks compared to SOE? And what are the benefits for doing the Amar epic arc missions?
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Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
92
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Posted - 2015.07.29 12:20:17 -
[29] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Is it even worth doing missions for Amarr, the LP store just plan sucks compared to SOE? And what are the benefits for doing the Amar epic arc missions?
Beyond the 350m payout between bounties and the end implant? every 3 months
Lp store is showing around 1k isk/lp. Its not great but its not terrible either. (Going by Jita Buy Orders) |
GordonO
Caldari Provisions
145
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Posted - 2015.07.29 19:52:33 -
[30] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:elitatwo wrote:GordonO wrote:marauder > pirate > navy > t1.. in that order best to worst Marauders are only for pilots who cannot fly battleships properly Dunno, having an off button for NPC ewar, a T2 tank that performs like a size class up and not much need need to move the ship because you can apply damage decently out to 100km (800mm AC vargur falling slightly shorter) and an MJD cooldown reduction for when you do is kinda nice. Also has more DPS for me due to not needing to fill more slots with tank out of the refusal to faction/deadspace fit. Hmm.. While I get that electronic warfare can get frustrating sometimes, I see it as challenge. I have been jammed by Guristas for many years in my Raven - so what? Then I see people making 546748742875642548675967204706516 whine thread how "unfair" that is because they cannot press F1 for 20 seconds - oh my.. If you fly a turret boat gunzz blazing into Sanshas, which you will know before you undock, you did not choose the right tool for the job at hand and I could not care any less about getting dampened by Serpentis when I sit in a blaster boat. Pressing F1 every now and then is no challenge. Flying a ship right is.
its called being efficient.. may as well run lv4's in a frig if you want to show how well you can fly a ship. Like PVP'ing in pirate and Tac destroyers, why ?? well they better for the job at hand.
... What next ??
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