Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Rilati Kansene
Monte Inc
25
|
Posted - 2015.07.15 23:13:22 -
[1] - Quote
Elizabeth made a point on a random thread a couple of days ago about MD being here for *discussion* -> In between the obvious scam attempt posts, the troll posts, the "can't tell if troll or scam or srs" posts there isn't actually a lot of content going through here.
Can we provide some discussion on how to actually go about raising capital/your first bond/"how to ask for ISK and actually have a chance to get it" ?
Bonds are reasonably simple (on the lending side anyhow) - I think rimmer actually has a macro that posts "no collateral + no history = no bond" But ... "How can anyone raise capital without much of either of these when getting started ?"
Commonly stated rationale is "I'm looking for an ISK injection to expand my trading" subtext being - "My liquid ISK is below 5% of my total wealth, I've got X on the market already, but I've still got Y order slots unused - with more, I could make more"
If I were this guy, and I was looking for Z ISK /and/ I had Z Worth of ISK lying around in unused assets - I would just liquidate and move on without asking. (Umm, for clarification I actually was that guy several years ago - I /could/ have made more and faster with an early'ish investment - instead just carried on doing the same and occasionally re-tuning for faster turnover)
Story time -> How you successfully raised your first bond, or some general strategies for building history/collateral... Or something along those lines. (Underlying goal, discussion! + a thread to just link to in the "not sure if scam or just a newbie" posts. )
|
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
251
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 05:21:15 -
[2] - Quote
1. Post with your main. Post with a character that hasn't recently been purchased from the bazaar. Post with a pilot that has forum history, without a recent gap, and who's forum history shows content.
2. The biggest mistake people make is that they know eve is a game, so they think asking for a loan is "just a game" too. They don't take it seriously. Remember that youre asking people to give up hours of their real life they spent earning isk to you as a gamble. Treat the loan request just like you would a real life loan request. Your bank doesn't want to here "I have isk, I make isk, give me isk." They want the nitty gritty details. The more the better.
3. Start small. Always post your limit of debt and be honest if you have any other active debts. Dont take on multiple loan requests. Start under 1 bil. Not 1bil. Like 500mil. And be honest if you intend to increase that amount through "rep grinding MD". Everyone has to start somewhere. 500mil, 800mil, 1bil, back to 800mil, 1.5bil, 1bil, 500mil, 2bil, so on. We want to see realistic numbers. If you need 500mil for a sweet load of discount quafe to sell slowly at double the idk, be honest about it. The more you disclose the better.
4. Disclose just enough. Be detailed, but vague with your post. Be detailed and specific with trusted investors. Remember that lenders are also traders and less than honest lenders will use your API keys and trade secrets. Be willing to give API keys that show your income, wallet balance, and some other necessary fact checking, and be willing to give detailed API keys to trusted lenders. I especially like to see contact list and journal entries because this can show untrustworthy actions like secret mains and isk laundering.
5. Be nice! You wouldn't tell your bank to **** off if they asked for clarification on specific of your loan request. Being mean reveals a character flaw, one that says of things aren't going your way youre willing to lose it all and give up.
6. Listen to critiques, and suggestions. And try your best to incorporate them into your business model or loan request. You are asking the community for their hard earned isk (real life time) and the community gets to determine how you do that.
7. If you are going to default or you have, or something has happened in real life that affects your pkay time, be honest! Give your investors a courteous heads up, and be detailed! If you plan to give the isk back, but you can't at the moment, try to work out a modified scheduled before you default. Your bank loaned you $5000, they'd rather get back half of it than get back nothing.
8. Remember that sometimes things dont work out, the loan isn't approved, the loan defaulted, whatever it is. If you are honest try again, with a different model, and a lower amount.
TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending
TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5183
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 05:50:21 -
[3] - Quote
Spend enough time on your loan proposal and borrow small enough that intentional default is low or at best medium ISK/hour.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|
Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
123
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 06:38:50 -
[4] - Quote
I offered 20% on my first bond and had a good story.
But the best way to get investors is probably to offer EVE Mogul/api access. I had audits when I enlarged my bonds. Also, any bonds smaller than 1 bn are more likely to fill.
My channel: "Signatures"
-
Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
|
Droodid
Antec Enterprises
51
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 09:42:29 -
[5] - Quote
Koniforous wrote:Your bank loaned you $5000, they'd rather get back half of it than get back nothing. Tell that to Germany.
Regards,
Greece
|
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
936
|
Posted - 2015.07.16 15:45:50 -
[6] - Quote
I had been reading and posting in MD for well over a year before I tried to borrow any isk. |
Rykker Bow
The Mjolnir Bloc
159
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 01:04:04 -
[7] - Quote
IGÇÖve done a few bonds in my time and IGÇÖll put in my experiences in the hopes that it will help others. This has been problematic in the past as this looks like a how to scam guide but hopefully it will have the opposite effect showing the time and dedication needed to grow reputation.
Rykker Bow bond #1 - (3 Billion) February 2010 (with audit) Rykker Bow bond #2 - (8 Billion) April 2010 (with audit) Rykker Bow bond #3 - (8 Billion) September 2010 Rykker Bow bond #4 - (15 Billion) October 2010 Rykker Bow bond #5 - (10 Billion) November 2010 Rykker Bow bond #6 - (15 Billion) January 2011 (with performance audit page 2 by VV) Rykker Bow bond #7 - (15 Billion) May 2012 (with performance audit page 3 by VV) Rykker Bow bond #8 - (30 billion) June 2012 Rykker Bow bond #9 - (20 billion) August 2013 Rykker Bow bond #10 - (25 billion) July 2015
Back in 2010 I came across MD forums and was quite intrigued with the meta game of bonds, finance and trust. I started out with the desire to issue a bond mostly based on the challenge of successfully launching a public offering with the secondary goal of raising capital and long term reputation. That sent me on a fact finding mission of previous bonds; of the ones that successfully launched and more importantly of the ones that failed to see what it was that killed them. The information gathered pointed towards a couple of truths of the bond issuer having good social management skills, a public presence and a detailed plan. Lastly was the time that the issuer spends in these areas. The more time invested in putting a prospectus and character reputation together relative to the potential scam is pretty obvious to the refined investor here in MD. A quick scam attempt looks like a scam. A well though out, detailed and prepared heist is much harder to detect.
Having a public presence is almost an absolute necessity. Being known in the MD community, giving insightful and friendly advice and generally getting your face out there will make you more attractive to investors. YouGÇÖll make contacts, youGÇÖll make friends and contacts and friends are much more likely to lend you money. This also seems to count towards the time involved to the isk gained ratio. The longer youGÇÖre in the community, the more time and effort is involved and that alone weeds out most as scammers that like the quick buck.
Social management skills. MD seems to rise and fall over time as to how much risk it wants to take. Being able to figure out the maximum you can get from a first issue is a big plus as the first few bonds are usually smaller than what you actually need. Also being able to handle the questions and trolls that come with an offering in a friendly and concise manner shows the general investing public that you can stay cool under pressure. Keeping your cool shows you can remain stable under duress which is a good tool for investors in calculating risk.
Having a polished offering. Take the time to go through the basics (see my offerings) Start off with an elevator pitch with a quick summary and biography then proceed to the body of the bond. DonGÇÖt forget a tl;dr section for the investor whoGÇÖs not interested in the details. If your offering looks weak it will bring out trolls and if the trolls have a following your as good as sunk.
Follow up after issuing. Set aside a couple hours after issuing. YouGÇÖll get questions and if youGÇÖre able to answer them quickly it will show your commitment. Try to get a feel for how MD is taking your bond and tailor your responses to aid in the launch.
Cheers and gl. - Rykker
The Mjolnir Bloc - Lowsec PvP for the sophisticated
The Mjolnir Bloc Killboards
|
Morton Summers
NIWTHID Corp.
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 06:53:50 -
[8] - Quote
I meet none of the criteria outlined. I showed up in Jita and asked people for money. They, for some reason gave it to me. Then I showed up here. People continue to give me money. Go figure. |
RAW23
898
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 10:29:46 -
[9] - Quote
I'll give my advice from a different direction - what investors should be looking for in an offering. Now, in reality you can make your offer and aim it at the lowest common denominator, the guys who fill bad offers and get scammed a lot. But a really good offer should attract the responsible investors and the following is an outline of how a responsible investor will approach a loan.
1. Get as much basic information as possible to build a risk profile. This in no way provides solid protection as people can certainly act against expectations but it does provide a guide as to when you might expect someone not to bother with scamming. The basic info I always want includes a) current outstanding unsecured debt; b) previous highest unsecured debt; c) earning history and potential, including current NAV; d) degree of activity. With this data you can see that if, for example, someone has held 20bil unsecured for 6 months, cleared that debt and then launched a new bond for 10bil then they are unlikely to be following a masterplan that will involve scamming that 10bil. It is important, however, to get a commitment, where possible, that additional funds won't be raised beyond a certain level or the 10bil could rapidly become part of a 100bil debt that may fit better into a rational masterplan.
Earning history and potential is also useful but by no means definitive. Someone who can earn 10bil a week and has actively engaged with the MD community for months is unlikely to be following a masterplan that culminates in scamming 10bil. Of course they may do so for the laughs but that is a different issue (see below). Degree of activity is worth bearing in mind as it may cast a risk profile based on the previous data into doubt. Whilst someone might not build a masterplan to scam 10bil after already not taking the opportunity to scam 20bil be aware that priorities may change over time. There may also be a desire not to screw certain old investors but to suck in new ones (see, for instance Bad Bobby's decision to refinance a bunch of old debts immediately prior to scamming).
All this data can initially be asked for from the person you are thinking about investing in but you then have to trust them that the data they give you is true. Whenever possible get a third party that you trust to confirm this information via an audit or fact check. This in no way makes the data absolutely certain but improves the chances of not being misled.
2. Be very wary about investing in people that appear to be slightly unstable, erratic or eccentric, no matter how much you like them or respect them. Unstable, flighty and changeable personality types may be lovely people (or *******s) but the additional uncertainty involved will always make an investment more of a gamble.
NEVER invest in people that are contemptuous towards their investors/potential investors or who take pleasure in the suffering, inconvenience or pain of others. If someone values putting other people in positions of distress they may well end up deciding that distressed investors are worth more than on-going business relationships.
3. Make sure you get a decent return for your risk. Acknowledge your own fallibility and ask yourself how often you would expect to be wrong. If you think something like BMBE looks like a pretty good bet, ask yourself whether you would be surprised if analogously good bets failed defaulted or scammed once in a year, two years, three years, etc GǪ So, if it wouldn't surprise you if you took three years off eve and came back to find that at least one person you trust as much as BMBE or Grendell or Chribba or Darkness had scammed then it would probably be a good idea to only invest in such people if you can get an interest rate according to which one successful investment would at least balance out a failure (so roughly 3%). Obviously this is a non-rigorous rule of thumb.
4. Never be afraid to pull an investment if new information or behaviour makes you nervous.
_There are two types of EVE player: _
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
|
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5191
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 11:13:19 -
[10] - Quote
RAW23 wrote:I'll give my advice from a different direction - what investors should be looking for in an offering. Now, in reality you can make your offer and aim it at the lowest common denominator, the guys who fill bad offers and get scammed a lot. But a really good offer should attract the responsible investors and the following is an outline of how a responsible investor will approach a loan.
1. Get as much basic information as possible to build a risk profile. This in no way provides solid protection as people can certainly act against expectations but it does provide a guide as to when you might expect someone not to bother with scamming. The basic info I always want includes a) current outstanding unsecured debt; b) previous highest unsecured debt; c) earning history and potential, including current NAV; d) degree of activity. With this data you can see that if, for example, someone has held 20bil unsecured for 6 months, cleared that debt and then launched a new bond for 10bil then they are unlikely to be following a masterplan that will involve scamming that 10bil. It is important, however, to get a commitment, where possible, that additional funds won't be raised beyond a certain level or the 10bil could rapidly become part of a 100bil debt that may fit better into a rational masterplan.
Earning history and potential is also useful but by no means definitive. Someone who can earn 10bil a week and has actively engaged with the MD community for months is unlikely to be following a masterplan that culminates in scamming 10bil. Of course they may do so for the laughs but that is a different issue (see below). Degree of activity is worth bearing in mind as it may cast a risk profile based on the previous data into doubt. Whilst someone might not build a masterplan to scam 10bil after already not taking the opportunity to scam 20bil be aware that priorities may change over time. There may also be a desire not to screw certain old investors but to suck in new ones (see, for instance Bad Bobby's decision to refinance a bunch of old debts immediately prior to scamming).
All this data can initially be asked for from the person you are thinking about investing in but you then have to trust them that the data they give you is true. Whenever possible get a third party that you trust to confirm this information via an audit or fact check. This in no way makes the data absolutely certain but improves the chances of not being misled.
2. Be very wary about investing in people that appear to be slightly unstable, erratic or eccentric, no matter how much you like them or respect them. Unstable, flighty and changeable personality types may be lovely people (or *******s) but the additional uncertainty involved will always make an investment more of a gamble.
NEVER invest in people that are contemptuous towards their investors/potential investors or who take pleasure in the suffering, inconvenience or pain of others. If someone values putting other people in positions of distress they may well end up deciding that distressed investors are worth more than on-going business relationships.
3. Make sure you get a decent return for your risk. Acknowledge your own fallibility and ask yourself how often you would expect to be wrong. If you think something like BMBE looks like a pretty good bet, ask yourself whether you would be surprised if analogously good bets failed defaulted or scammed once in a year, two years, three years, etc GǪ So, if it wouldn't surprise you if you took three years off eve and came back to find that at least one person you trust as much as BMBE or Grendell or Chribba or Darkness had scammed then it would probably be a good idea to only invest in such people if you can get an interest rate according to which one successful investment would at least balance out a failure (so roughly 3%). Obviously this is a non-rigorous rule of thumb.
4. Never be afraid to pull an investment if new information or behaviour makes you nervous.
Market #opsec - RAW23 gets it.
That's why I wouldn't try to scam him.
I could probably do it, but not for enough to merit the time spent building the requisite amount of trust.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
|
|
okoolos rimmer
Napkin Nation
111
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 12:55:38 -
[11] - Quote
"NEVER invest in people that are contemptuous towards their investors/potential investors or who take pleasure in the suffering, inconvenience or pain of others."
You just described a large portion of the playerbase. And there goes Code bond too lol. |
RAW23
898
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 12:56:44 -
[12] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
Market #opsec - RAW23 gets it.
That's why I wouldn't try to scam him.
I could probably do it, but not for enough to merit the time spent building the requisite amount of trust.
Yeah - scamming me, or anyone, won't be that hard as all you have to do is conform your presentation of yourself and your activities to my requirements. That's why investors have to introduce a set of requirements that will make the profit from the scam disproportionately low in comparison to the effort. Insistence on small steps in the growth of liabilities over time is a critical point for me. If you go from 3bil to 20bil in two months I'm not going to be interested no matter how much I trust you or how good your business is, simply because you haven't paid your dues and put in enough effort for 20bil to not be a worthwhile score. Spend six months or a year being an active MD participant, showing the right face and presenting the right character while running a series of bonds stepping things up gradually and I might be in if all others stars align. But by that point you will have put in enough time and effort that the extra isk at the final stage will not be worth the additional effort over taking 15bil at the stage before, which again would not be worth the extra effort over taking 12bil at the previous stage two months earlier.
_There are two types of EVE player: _
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
|
Careby
222
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 13:32:33 -
[13] - Quote
A red flag for me is when I am unable to understand why the borrower wants the loan. If I see someone saying they have made 10B profit in the last two weeks, and asking to borrow 5B, I immediately want to know why they don't just use this week's profit instead of borrowing.
I understand there are lots of reasons to seek additional capital, and that if 5B more, right now, will generate more than the interest on the loan then it makes sense for the borrower. But it raises a question in my mind, and has stopped me from participating in otherwise attractive offerings.
It could be that I just don't think like a banker. Banks thrive on loaning money to customers who don't "need" it, and by definition there is more risk in loaning to those who do. But I value independence and self-sufficiency, and I would only borrow as a last resort. (That may help explain why I am not very rich.)
Sarcasm is OP
|
okoolos rimmer
Napkin Nation
111
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 14:31:04 -
[14] - Quote
Personally I believe that people are logical. They will pay back the loan if and only if it's in their best interest to do so. And your job as a lender is to make sure it is so by asking for collateral or making sure a default carries some other price (like loss of valuable reputation). A borrower with no collateral and no reputation to speak of has no reason to pay the money back. |
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
162
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 17:30:48 -
[15] - Quote
I I was ever to ask for a loan it would look something like this:
hey guys I want to borrow 20 billion Isk to spend on Gecko speculation. I plan to buy all the geckos I can get my grubby paws on between now and the isk runs out.
I will be selling the Geckos at the end of this year/into january and I plan to repay all my creditors then with 20% interest. Yes Im that confident the Gecko market is going to keep climbing. I understand this is a controversial though and has divided forum opinion. You may well think Gecko prices won't climb at all and its a bubble that will crash. Thats my risk however not yours as I have collateral for the loan.
I plan to deposit 40 plex with Chribba and pay his fee as collateral for the loan. Why not just sell the plex? because I also believe the plex prices are going up and will be over 1 billion by next year. Even if I am wrong though and plexs crash as well as Geckos 40 plexs at 500 million each equals 20 billion and could cover the debt in the event I get screwed by the market gods and the lords of chance.
Tldr: want to borrow 20 billion isk at 20% using 40 plex deposited with Chribba as collateral. Loan to paid at the end of this year.
Its simple easy to understand. You can see exactly what I'm doing and that I've done the best I can to minimise my INVESTERS risk.
Will gank for food
|
Careby
222
|
Posted - 2015.07.18 19:02:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tarojan wrote:Tldr: want to borrow 20 billion isk at 20% using 40 plex deposited with Chribba as collateral. Loan to paid at the end of this year.[/i] I will cover the 20B. Will send funds as soon as Chribba confirms. Thanks!.
Sarcasm is OP
|
I LIKE IT
HIGH RISK INVESTMENT
195
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 07:43:56 -
[17] - Quote
OFFER THEM BACON
EVERYONE LIKES BACON |
Avi Shekelstien
New Order Logistics CODE.
4
|
Posted - 2015.07.19 12:09:16 -
[18] - Quote
I LIKE IT wrote:OFFER THEM BACON
EVERYONE LIKES BACON TAKBIR! |
Axton Kashuken
We make things.... I think We trade things... I think
20
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 01:49:57 -
[19] - Quote
I LIKE IT wrote:OFFER THEM BACON
EVERYONE LIKES BACON
I LIKE IT
On topic: I had a rant typed out but deleted it as it was unconstructive. In my experience of seeking loans, MD has become far less receptive to uncollateralized loans. Even then, filling a collateralized loan without having a great rep greatly depends on luck. That is my $.02. |
Thor Nergal
Impass Shipyards
0
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 03:49:29 -
[20] - Quote
Hi MD,
RAW23 hit the nail on the head, though to continue the discussion I would like peoples thoughts on collateral. Specifically what LVR the collateral should be expected on loans. Most loans appear to require in excess of 100%
I have lent money both uncollateralised and collateralised. I personally required 105% on the latter.
I think you definitely need to be able to talk to investors, otherwise your chances are slim to none.
Thor Nergal |
|
Avi Shekelstien
New Order Logistics CODE.
6
|
Posted - 2015.07.21 21:07:23 -
[21] - Quote
Can I have some Isk to blow on eve bet plox |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5661
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 17:21:13 -
[22] - Quote
Proof that the MD forum indeed holds many gems for those who learn how to dig them.
I loved reading Koniforous, Rykker and RAW23's wise pieces of advice, they are really spot on!
Actually, if you 3 don't mind, I'd love to create an article on my EvE Online Blog based on your suggestions.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
|
Koniforous
Tauren Transit
256
|
Posted - 2015.07.24 19:58:28 -
[23] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Proof that the MD forum indeed holds many gems for those who learn how to dig them. I loved reading Koniforous, Rykker and RAW23's wise pieces of advice, they are really spot on! Actually, if you 3 don't mind, I'd love to create an article on my EvE Online Blog based on your suggestions. Please do! I've been meaning to collect all these gems into one definitive guide and put it on my site and its own thread here on MD, because we really need one. Hopefully it can be stickied up top too.
TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending
TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
|
Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
90
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 07:37:32 -
[24] - Quote
Axton Kashuken wrote:I LIKE IT wrote:OFFER THEM BACON
EVERYONE LIKES BACON I LIKE IT On topic: I had a rant typed out but deleted it as it was unconstructive. In my experience of seeking loans, MD has become far less receptive to uncollateralized loans. Even then, filling a collateralized loan without having a great rep greatly depends on luck. That is my $.02. I don't follow MD much anymore so forgive me, I'm assuming based on your comments that you've tried for loans on MD in the past and not had any luck. What are the three main things that led to you not getting a loan? |
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
166
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 11:05:45 -
[25] - Quote
I'd have thought what stopped him getting uncollat loans was a lack of credibility. If you don't have the reputation then you need a solid business model. Otherwise why would you ever think you were getting your isk back? lets face it MD is where the most isk savy people hang out.
Will gank for food
|
Axton Kashuken
We make things.... I think We trade things... I think
20
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 19:24:49 -
[26] - Quote
Amarr Citizen 155 wrote:Axton Kashuken wrote:I LIKE IT wrote:OFFER THEM BACON
EVERYONE LIKES BACON I LIKE IT On topic: I had a rant typed out but deleted it as it was unconstructive. In my experience of seeking loans, MD has become far less receptive to uncollateralized loans. Even then, filling a collateralized loan without having a great rep greatly depends on luck. That is my $.02. I don't follow MD much anymore so forgive me, I'm assuming based on your comments that you've tried for loans on MD in the past and not had any luck. What are the three main things that led to you not getting a loan?
When I first began I did actually get uncollateralized loans which got me onto my feet in trading. These days, it seems like even besides the blatant uncollateralized scam loans, others are trolled straight out of the forums for not fully thinking through their terms. I currently have a 10B loan out (collateralized) so I am not saying loans do not exist. I do understand that these sentiments may not be 100% correct as while I pay some attention to MD, it is not a priority of mine. |
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 08:13:46 -
[27] - Quote
Rilati Kansene wrote:...
Can we provide some discussion on how to actually go about raising capital/your first bond/"how to ask for ISK and actually have a chance to get it" ?
...But ... "How can anyone raise capital without much of either of these when getting started ?"
Commonly stated rationale is "I'm looking for an ISK injection to expand my trading" subtext being - "My liquid ISK is below 5% of my total wealth, I've got X on the market already, but I've still got Y order slots unused - with more, I could make more"
If I were this guy, and I was looking for Z ISK /and/ I had Z Worth of ISK lying around in unused assets - I would just liquidate and move on without asking. (Umm, for clarification I actually was that guy several years ago - I /could/ have made more and faster with an early'ish investment - instead just carried on doing the same and occasionally re-tuning for faster turnover)
Story time -> How you successfully raised your first bond, or some general strategies for building history/collateral... Or something along those lines. (Underlying goal, discussion! + a thread to just link to in the "not sure if scam or just a newbie" posts. )
Just to confirm, I was not that guy several years ago, or last year, or earlier this year...
However, you are right about the point related to look for Z ISK and having Z Worth of ISK laying (or lying) around in unused assets... I did just liquidate , and moved on , however I did it while after asking.
There are and were a few reasons to my rationale.
1 being : I did have almost 1 billion in asset at the time, or something like 980m + worth of items in hangars in many systems / stations.
The main problem incurred were: - Not enough assets to fill up a 1 billion loan (similar to a bond but with other terms). - The assets required were liquidated before offering to take the loan (2% or 4 % extra). - To allow a viable profit margin, markup price, what have you, or rate of return to be acceptable, I'd have needed additional asset or work to transfer by contract (that is, using the EVE Online ingame private contract tool program).
Additional hardship caused were: - Time needed to verify the contracts (loan offers). - Interest required to cover for loss of time (see above + additional station transfer logistic potential work).
Another 2nd being : It took me quite a while to sell my 980m worth of asset, and I think that , out of that total, I only instantly sold about 60%.
Other notes related are: - The rest of the items probably were worth less than the highest value items for faster ISK asset based capital evaluation value. - I did not in fact move most of the items except for trading some to my trading pod-pilot (even that takes time).
One of the most important point is : - I have limited sale order potential to put items up for sale against the competition. I do not use sale orders in my instant sale scheme. I only rely on instant market value. The competition is more based on instant time and timing. The margin of profit is greatly diminished due to this, however, the time gained is a benefit.
+ The assets were going to be used for collateral. If the loan was not paid back, the lender was willing to keep the items . There is a margin of percentage of the items value to cover for the collateral value and the loan / bond value.
3rd: Potential Benefits were: If I made the collateral contract with a lender, it would have been easier to make other collateral in the future for loans if the lender made profit. That can be used to purchase important ingame offers (yes, even use the ISK capital to invest in Character Bazaar, or sale Orders). |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5139
|
Posted - 2015.07.29 18:17:12 -
[28] - Quote
My current "bond" went something like this:
Me: How much ISK do you have lying around idle? Investor: At least 20 billion. Me: Okay, then send me 20 billion, and I'll give you more back. Investor: Okay.
If people trust you (past experience), or have a reason to trust you (like collateral), in my experience it really isn't that difficult to find investors.
Some suggestions:
* Briefly Introduce yourself. Remember, you can only make a first impression once! * Briefly describe your past success and failures. * Provide proof or references (people, URL links, etc.) for all claims made. * Outline your objectives, and how you plan to achieve them. * Outline any obstacles you can imagine that may prevent repayment. * Outline contingency plans. * Provide known and trusted character references if possible. * Be polite and positive when answering all questions, even trolls. "Be nice!" - James Dalton |
Rilati Kansene
Monte Inc
35
|
Posted - 2015.08.07 11:18:34 -
[29] - Quote
I'm glad this thread has generated such a large amount of really awesome on-topic advice.
Interesting that since it has dropped off the front page of MD that the number of "I'm 30 seconds old, have nothing, please give me ISK and I promise to give it back" posts have increased somewhat again. (Hey, neat, I just bumped it back to the front page - how about that!)
Would be great if someone who is both a little better at keeping posts at a readable number of words, and who is also better known than I could summarise the best bits of this thread into a new one. A VV/ Koniforous blog post(s) and a more prominent MD forum thread can obviously be a useful resource for many.
A couple of random thoughts; Both VV and Koniforous both sometimes very technical in their writing (definitely not a criticism, that we parallel the real financial/economic world so closely is testamount to Eve's economy and hopefully add's a lot of weight to the thinking of those people who turn up with the mindset of its just a game, so you should just give me stuff for free) - so I was thinking some sort of supplemental piece on "These are the terms you really should understand before you start"
I was also thinking a sister piece to a summarised version of this thread, splitting out the "What to look for as a good investment" - i.e two threads/guides/blogs cross referenced "How to go about asking for ISK/Building a successful Bond" and then "How to evaluate a potential bond, how to calculate a risk profile before handing over ISK etc" - plenty of people looking for loans, likely also plenty of people with a lot of dormant ISK who may be hesitant about using it to fill a bond simply due to not understanding how it all works, or how to mitigate risks.
Now, I was /also/ thinking of checking in with CCP just for specifics on whether a "Please give me a loan, in exchange I'll sign you up for Bacon of the Month" style initial bond offering lands in the realm of RMT on the other hand, I'm in Aus - no such luxury of automatically arriving new bacon systems exists in this hemisphere as best as I can tell
|
RAW23
903
|
Posted - 2015.08.07 12:12:51 -
[30] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Proof that the MD forum indeed holds many gems for those who learn how to dig them. I loved reading Koniforous, Rykker and RAW23's wise pieces of advice, they are really spot on! Actually, if you 3 don't mind, I'd love to create an article on my EvE Online Blog based on your suggestions.
Sorry for the slow reply - just back from holidays. Feel free to use anything I have written that is helpful.
Also, good to see your face! It's been a while
_There are two types of EVE player: _
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |