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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1182
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:48:46 -
[31] - Quote
Shutaq,
For your information, I also signed that petition. That point is an irrelevant red-herring, with all due respect.
Your corporation continuously spends its time lecturing and humiliating its allies for no reason. For once, I intend to stand firm against such bullying, especially when said bullying comes out from heretic mouths. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
947
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:49:17 -
[32] - Quote
Anslo wrote:I'd say she's making more sense and progress than your broken record. You don't even know what she said, do you?
And Farel, please just stop. The only people who can actually call someone a heretic is the Theology Council, and that is what this is about. The Theology Council is the higher court, and we are petitioning it and the throne to make this an issue. It's called activism, and a bit of rabble rousing is included in that. You are right, it's not something we do much in the Empire, but there is a strong enough case here to make, and we are going to make it.
If you really cannot see what is being done here then I'd be glad to explain further in private. |
Anslo
Scope Works
32027
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:54:07 -
[33] - Quote
She points out a fact. You go ad hominem. Not very becoming of an officer and servant of Amarr. What was that rule again about behavior in public?
[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5309
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:55:34 -
[34] - Quote
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:In Light's Name Samira Kernher wrote:For good or ill, my place is as a capsuleer in service of God and Amarr, and it is my duty to represent the principles we are entrusted by God to hold. Amarr was founded to cultivate the spirit of man.
Should the lords to whom I serve instruct me to still my voice, I shall. But I take no lessons on place from the likes of unborn from faithless nations. Woe betide the age where apes wear the robes of bishops and servitude is confused with pride... Amarr was founded to cultivate the spirit of man. Man such as you. In service of God and Amarr the only words that should come out of your mouth when talking to your betters are GÇ£Yes, Sir!GÇ¥ and GÇ£Yes, MaGÇÖam!GÇ¥ My ancestors fought alongside the first emperors of Amarr. Give some respect to the blood of the martyrs that died for your salvation. Show some gratitude that a d'Hanguest humbles herself and speaks to you. Odelya d'Hanguest, Begum etc. pp.
Sorry, aren't you a heretic now or something?
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1185
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Posted - 2015.07.16 22:58:20 -
[35] - Quote
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:Anslo wrote:I'd say she's making more sense and progress than your broken record. You don't even know what she said, do you? And Farel, please just stop. The only people who can actually call someone a heretic is the Theology Council, and that is what this is about. The Theology Council is the higher court, and we are petitioning it and the throne to make this an issue. It's called activism, and a bit of rabble rousing is included in that. You are right, it's not something we do much in the Empire, but there is a strong enough case here to make, and we are going to make it. If you really cannot see what is being done here then I'd be glad to explain further in private.
This confuses me sir... Why are you PIE all continuously issuing statements of heresy for X or Y reasons ? Don't you keep a list, actually, for that matter... ?
That makes absolutely no sense to me. |
Aldrith Shutaq
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
948
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Posted - 2015.07.16 23:04:35 -
[36] - Quote
Because the Theology Council does not bother to pick out every single heretic capsuleer out there and stamp their forehead with the word 'heretic', so we make due. Why do you keep on making issues about Imperial institutions and the way they should be run about PIE and they way it is run?
That makes absolutely no sense to me. |
Alizebeth Amalath
Sanctus Amarria
64
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Posted - 2015.07.16 23:07:20 -
[37] - Quote
Please take this elsewhere. |
Foley Aberas Jones
Huogikku Corporation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
331
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Posted - 2015.07.16 23:26:41 -
[38] - Quote
Yo whats going on in this thr-
Nope
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Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
259
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:04:00 -
[39] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:
Give me the whip, not the chip. Inject me, don't implant me.
As you wish...
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:I am sure the sentiment is in the right place, the wording is a little offputting. A wise holder will find a way to treat and educate his slaves to bring them to the path of righteousness with the least extreme measures possible. Simply because the Theology Council has approved the use of TCMCs or Vitoc does not mean that they are endorsed.
YES IT DOES! That is EXACTLY what it means! Look:
endorse [en-dawrs] verb (used with object), endorsed, endorsing. 1. to approve, support, or sustain:
Lyn Farel wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:
The fact is that the ownership of slaves by anyone other than Holders is illegal in Amarr, as written in Scriptural law. The ownership of slaves by anyone outside of Amarr is illegal by CONCORD law.
Current liberal free trade policies do not make non-Holder ownership legal, they only provide loopholes that are exploited by spiritually-deficient fortune-seekers. Ownership by anyone that is not a Holder is a crime against God, period.
Ms Kernher, CONCORD law does not make slave trading illegal as far as I am aware. It suffice to take a look at what the SCC allows to trade everywhere in New Eden. That business is usually made illegal by the empires themselves, and that includes the Amarr that for now also strictly forbids slave taking outside of Amarr borders, on foreign citizens. I would also urge you to thread more carefully when accusing entities like the Civic Court of crimes against God. If you truly believe that we all are souless capsuleers, then we are even less than slaves, according to your own words. Slaves do not accuse the Civic Court and other imperial institutions related to the TC of crimes against God. Especially if you are to drag our members into the mud you sling all around you. Thank you.
Agreed,
Caldari law makes it illegal in the State. Gallente law, the Federation, Matari law, the Republic. CONCORD and all four governments have no authority in the great expanses outside their borders. And again, laws within Khanid are vastly different than the rest of the Empire. Khanid is a sovereign state that is joined with the Empire, not a s simple House within it like the Tash-Murkons. Khanid law and Amarr law make it legal for non-Holders to own slaves within the Empire, not CONCORD. So if some of you have a problem with Amarr law, maybe you need to re-evaluate your loyalty.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Alizebeth Amalath
Sanctus Amarria
67
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:16:37 -
[40] - Quote
Amarr law does not allow for non-holders to own slaves. |
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Sinjin Mokk
Stillwater Corporation That Escalated Quickly.
262
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:36:01 -
[41] - Quote
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:Amarr law does not allow for non-holders to own slaves.
You keep telling yourself that and I'll keep legally selling them to non-Holders in Amarr.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Goldfinch
House Rkard
145
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Posted - 2015.07.17 03:44:05 -
[42] - Quote
We feel like we have to interject on the typical argumentum ad absurdum regarding what is Theological law and what it means to be a CONCORD signitory. If Amarr Empire is to be a "good" Cluster Citizen, it has to follow some secular rules out of necessity for its survival. This does not mean Theological law is cast out to the wind, or forgotten.
Theological law forbids anyone but Holders from having slaves. This is God's Law, and any Holder who violates it in an ideal system would be stripped of rank and privilege, partially or whole.
Amarr Theology has many other imperatives, such as the Reclaiming.
This does not mean that all of the sudden Amarr Empire is going to spread out and start violating DED rules of engagement and Yulai Convention laws for prisoners of war to satisfy a "Theologically sound" goal of Reclaiming the Cluster. In the same way, a Theological law against slave ownership by commoners does not presently mean that Amarr Empire will suddenly quash the free market because doing so would have grave implications for its CONCORD membership.
There is no hypocrisy here. Mixing secular requirements for CONCORD membership with Theology is a specious argument. Name us one culture which hasn't had to sacrifice some of its core ideals at the Yulai Convention.
We admire for Lt. Kernher's zeal. We support her assertion that Amarr Theology has been compromised too far by Amarr's membership in CONCORD.
veiled and bound
my origin story (on R109)
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
519
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Posted - 2015.07.17 05:24:10 -
[43] - Quote
Since when do Angels give a damn about laws?
I thought their motto is: "Never do legally what can be done illegally"?
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1188
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Posted - 2015.07.17 08:05:27 -
[44] - Quote
Thank you Ms Rkard, it is explained very elegantly.
Aldrith Shutaq wrote:Because the Theology Council does not bother to pick out every single heretic capsuleer out there and stamp their forehead with the word 'heretic', so we make due. Why do you keep on making issues about Imperial institutions and the way they should be run about PIE and they way it is run?
That makes absolutely no sense to me.
So, you are telling me that only the TC can brand someone as such, but none of us except PIE Inc. ? |
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
571
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Posted - 2015.07.17 08:22:02 -
[45] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Since when do Angels give a damn about laws?
I thought their motto is: "Never do legally what can be done illegally"?
You seem to be taking our involvement in discussion regarding CONCORD legislative rather... pejoratively, if I may say so.
We have no respect for CONCORD laws, but if you think we're a disorganized rabble without a legislative of our own... well, keep on thinking that, actually; it humours me greatly. If you think we have public sales booths in Dam Torsad where you can buy slaves legally... well, you'd only be wrong about the 'public' and 'legally' parts, technically.
Also, don't try to teach us about our mottos.
- Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim
Angels are never far...
Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
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Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
656
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Posted - 2015.07.17 08:35:19 -
[46] - Quote
In Light's Name
Goldfinch wrote: We feel like we have to interject on the typical argumentum ad absurdum regarding what is Theological law and what it means to be a CONCORD signitory. If Amarr Empire is to be a "good" Cluster Citizen, it has to follow some secular rules out of necessity for its survival. This does not mean Theological law is cast out to the wind, or forgotten. [...]
Ms Rkard
The notion that there is a GÇ£sacred lawGÇ¥ (or theological law, as you call it) which is distinguishable from a GÇ£profane lawGÇ¥ (or secular rules, as you call them) comes with complications. It mightGÇöfor historical reasosnGÇöbe true for an entity such as the Gallente Federation, but not for Amarr (ideally speaking). But if we were to assume that there are such separable spheres of GÇ£sacred lawsGÇ¥ and GÇ£secular rules,GÇ¥ ideally there would be a hierarchyGÇöin the strictest sense of the wordGÇöwhich places divine law on top of all. A holder who promulgates that a special tax should be given to the orphans and widows, might not do so if it contradicts the GÇ£sacred laws.GÇ¥
Actually, the separation of the two spheres was an invention of the Theology Council to attack His Majesty King Khanid, when they accused him of proclaiming the primacy of manGÇÖs law over GodGÇÖs law. While superficially attacking His Majesty, their argumentation laid the groundwork for furthering the distortion of the Scriptures. And this is one reason why you will find many contradictions in the EmpireGÇösuch as a CONCORD sanctioned reclaiming, slaves on markets although forbidden to be owned by non-holders, an abolitionist on the throne etc.GÇöthat you will not encounter in the Kingdom, where there is no Theology Council and no separation between the laws of man and God, just as it always has been and always will be right and just.
Odelya dGÇÖHanguest, Begum etc. pp. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1926
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 09:04:14 -
[47] - Quote
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:Woe betide the age where apes wear the robes of bishops and servitude is confused with pride... Amarr was founded to cultivate the spirit of man. Man such as you. In service of God and Amarr the only words that should come out of your mouth when talking to your betters are GÇ£Yes, Sir!GÇ¥ and GÇ£Yes, MaGÇÖam!GÇ¥
Those would be my words, if I were speaking to my betters.
Quote:My ancestors fought alongside the first emperors of Amarr. Give some respect to the blood of the martyrs that died for your salvation. Show some gratitude that a d'Hanguest humbles herself and speaks to you.
My ancestors also once served God, as did all people. The line ceases being worthy of respect, however, when they abandon God and Amarr.
Lyn Farel wrote:Ms Kernher,
CONCORD law does not make slave trading illegal as far as I am aware. It suffice to take a look at what the SCC allows to trade everywhere in New Eden. That business is usually made illegal by the empires themselves, and that includes the Amarr that for now also strictly forbids slave taking outside of Amarr borders, on foreign citizens.
CONCORD makes it illegal. It also makes the drug trade illegal, and that also occurs on the SCC. The SCC is an unregulated free market, it allows business in things that are otherwise illegal in the name of "free trade". The fact that the SCC allows the trade of controlled items doesn't mean that those items are not illegal, it just means that the SCC is an atrocious organization that needs to be curtailed.
Sinjin Mokk wrote:Amarr law make it legal for non-Holders to own slaves within the Empire
You know nothing about Amarr law.
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:... that you will not encounter in the Kingdom, where there is no Theology Council and no separation between the laws of man and God, just as it always has been and always will be right and just.
There is no separation in Amarr. Here it is only God's Law.
There is no separation in the Kingdom. There it is only man's law.
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
660
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 10:07:20 -
[48] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:My ancestors also once served God, as did all people. The line ceases being worthy of respect, however, when they abandon God and Amarr. See, you equate the service the servant does to his commander (polishing the commanderGÇÖs boots before battle) with the service the commander does himself (leading into battle).
You serve yourself, not God.
One should address you as a GÇ£honorary Gallente.GÇ¥ You fit into each and every stereotype: a stubborn individualist that has problems with authority, prone to self-entitlement, arrogance and an undeserved feeling of superiority, making fiery speeches about each and everything, yet not possessing a single thought that did not originate somewhere else...
Your opinions are as little expressions of faith, as colour is a representative of sound. Yet, we have to see, it is futile to explain a thought to someone to whom a hint is not enough.
Au revoir, Mademoiselle Kernher!
Odelya dGÇÖHanguest, Begum etc. pp. |
Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1927
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 10:20:47 -
[49] - Quote
Odelya d'Hanguest wrote:You serve yourself, not God.
Kingdomers would know best, wouldn't they?
Quote:One should address you as a GÇ£honorary Gallente.GÇ¥ You fit into each and every stereotype: a stubborn individualist that has problems with authority, prone to self-entitlement, arrogance and an undeserved feeling of superiority, making fiery speeches about each and everything, yet not possessing a single thought that did not originate somewhere else...
People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl".
"Embrace those who would learn, defeat those who would make mockery of God's way. Through the penance of deeds, the sins of forefathers may eventually be washed away."
-- His Royal Highness the Heir Yonis Ardishapur
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
519
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:42:04 -
[50] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl". This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread.
What is the purpose of this thread?
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Odelya d'Hanguest
Order of St. Severian
670
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 13:04:03 -
[51] - Quote
In LightGÇÖs Name
Just because the truth hurts in your case, it does not in mine. Things of which I am not proud of happened to me in the past. I took responsibility for them. When will you take responsibility and stop hiding?
Odelya dGÇÖHanguest, Begum etc. |
Aria Jenneth
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
1164
|
Posted - 2015.07.17 13:06:04 -
[52] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:What is the purpose of this thread? Going by the OP, it's to illuminate the horrors of an unregulated slave market. |
Kalaratiri
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
665
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:08:56 -
[53] - Quote
I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.
Carry on darlings!
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. -á- CCP Falcon
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Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
572
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:21:32 -
[54] - Quote
Kalaratiri wrote:I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.
Carry on darlings!
I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place.
Now let's not derail and escalate this out of proportion, dear.
- Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim
Angels are never far...
Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
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Tiberious Thessalonia
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
2432
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:23:47 -
[55] - Quote
Leopold Caine wrote:Kalaratiri wrote:I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.
Carry on darlings! I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place. Now let's not derail and escalate this out of proportion, dear.
Nice sexism. |
Foley Aberas Jones
Huogikku Corporation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
335
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:24:15 -
[56] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl". This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread. What is the purpose of this thread?
Something about cake i think.... |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
523
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:58:47 -
[57] - Quote
Foley Aberas Jones wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl". This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread. What is the purpose of this thread? Something about cake i think....
What is cake?
Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~ EVERGREEN ~ Evergreen ~ Evergreen ~Evergreen ~ Family
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Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
572
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:12:11 -
[58] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:Foley Aberas Jones wrote:Elmund Egivand wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones, Ms. "Sensitive Girl". This is the last I'll say to you here, Ms. d'Hanguest. You are derailing the purpose of this thread. What is the purpose of this thread? Something about cake i think.... What is cake?
I believe ms. Tenebrae's patisserie enthusiast thread should keep you both entertained.
- Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim
Angels are never far...
Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
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Pieter Tuulinen
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
5319
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Posted - 2015.07.17 15:18:24 -
[59] - Quote
Leopold Caine wrote:Kalaratiri wrote:I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.
Carry on darlings! I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place.
I'd like to remind readers that every time Vincent Pryce hears Leo here describe himself as an angel he pulls just the MOST humourous face, until we remind him that Leo is probably simply describing himself as a flamboyant homosexual.
"Caldari Prime burns, those left behind are choking on the dust and ash that fills the air, and you demand our surrender? Is this a joke? You have only hardened our resolve. Every drop of blood you have taken from us will be repaid -- with interest."
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Kalaratiri
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Multicultural F1 Brigade
670
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Posted - 2015.07.17 15:49:38 -
[60] - Quote
Leopold Caine wrote:Kalaratiri wrote:I would like to take a moment to assure readers that the views of the Stillwater corporation and its members do not represent the views of the wider Angel Cartel.
Carry on darlings! I'd like to take a moment to remind readers that mercenaries collaborating with Nation sycophants should keep their mouth shut and know their place. Now let's not derail and escalate this out of proportion, dear.
But my place is right here darling!
Giving you even greater opportunities to look like an idiot.
So kind of you to take advantage of the service I provide.
She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.
This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums. -á- CCP Falcon
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