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Thor Auriga
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2015.07.16 13:02:06 -
[1] - Quote
Have you ever logged out of your alt, logged back in to switch over to your main, and clicked on the wrong portrait, ending up logging in with your alt again?
Yes you have. Stupid you!
Well not really. It's the interface that's stupid, not you. It shuffles the character portraits, thus setting you a trap. Where you click is based on your memory, not the (now changed) user interface.
I understand that CCP's idea behind the shuffling is to present the characters in the order they were last accessed. This however is not how our brains work. Our brains want things to stay put, or alternatively, control their location themselves (as in much of the rest of the Eve interface).
Instead of shuffling the portraits, please present the characters in the order they were originally created, or alternatively, in the order of time spent logged online. Or even let the players shuffle the order themselves. Either is vastly better than the error-prone current situation. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
368
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Posted - 2015.07.16 13:08:28 -
[2] - Quote
How about no it is stupid you, as in look where you click the character shuffle on the login has been with us for a long time.
I counter you ith I prefer it the way it is, it gives me a positive indicator of which character was the last one logged in and I prefer it that way.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1319
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Posted - 2015.07.16 13:31:50 -
[3] - Quote
"Stupid is as stupid does."
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
844
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Posted - 2015.07.16 13:46:42 -
[4] - Quote
It's not like they're shuffling around at random and you have a dozen pictures to look at. They're always in order of last login time.
Agony Unleashed is Recruiting - Small Gang PvP in Null Sec
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Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
307
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Posted - 2015.07.16 13:59:04 -
[5] - Quote
I wouldn't mind being able to order them as I want......
For posting an idea into F&I:
come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it.....
If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
106
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Posted - 2015.07.16 15:39:56 -
[6] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:Have you ever logged out of your alt, logged back in to switch over to your main, and clicked on the wrong portrait, ending up logging in with your alt again?
No. No I haven't. There are only three. It's not that hard. |
Iain Cariaba
1648
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Posted - 2015.07.16 15:43:30 -
[7] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:Have you ever logged out of your alt, logged back in to switch over to your main, and clicked on the wrong portrait, ending up logging in with your alt again? Only when I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Will troll for a t-shirt.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10802
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Posted - 2015.07.16 15:59:27 -
[8] - Quote
Elenahina wrote:It's not like they're shuffling around at random and you have a dozen pictures to look at. They're always in order of last login time.
Exactly this, how the op isn't used to it by now escapes me.
=]|[=
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Thor Auriga
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2015.07.16 18:03:43 -
[9] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:How about no it is stupid you
TF Diomedes wrote:"Stupid is as stupid does."
Cidanel Afuran wrote:It's not that hard.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:how the op isn't used to it by now escapes me.
This is exactly the kind of thinking bad user interfaces are founded on. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1214
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Posted - 2015.07.16 19:24:37 -
[10] - Quote
This is a great feature idea. 3 nights ago I logged out my alt and tried to log in my main. I got halfway through the scroll when it happened.... you guessed it.... hand cramp. All because of the stupid portrait swapping. I started rubbing my hand (with my other hand, not the cramped one) and as I was rubbing it my non cramped hand, well not my hand, but further up my arm - the bendy part between your wrist and your clavical - anyway that part knockd my fresh hot cup of coffee off my desk and onto my lap.
The pain was excruciating. As I jumped up from the hot steamy crotch pain my hand (the crampy one) cramped even more and I hit my thigh on the underside of my desk. The thigh pain caused me to spasm forward and I hit my forehead solidly on the shelf part of my computer desk. I was bleeding a good bit, but I ignored that. Focussing on my steaming shorts I started to pull them off.
I'm not sure if it was the hand cramp, the thigh knot, the bleeding head wound, the burning crotch or some combination of them, but I started to feel woozy. You know when you start to get woozy sometimes your brain sort of latches on to that last thought and just keeps going with it? Well mine was 'burning shorts - must take off' so as I was blacking out I was still struggling with getting my shorts off. I went down at that point.
What seemed like an instant was actually 5 minutes, but I came back into focus. There's my wife standing over me. I was lying by my computer desk my shorts around my ankles all soaked and coffee stained. My one leg pinned to my chest in pain. Blood sliding off my forehead (some had pooled in my eye socket while I was out so my left eye was soaked and everything was blurry (I though it odd that blood covering the lens of your eye doesn't burn or really give you much of a sensation at all).
She asked "Is your hand OK?"
That's when I noticed it was locked in a tight ball, an odd almost white color and shaking at a good pace.
"Not really, it's cramped pretty bad." I said.
So she said "Don't forget you said you were going to mow the lawn. Dinner will be ready in about an hour and a half, so you might want to get started on it soon"
Then she went back in the other room and watched a CSI episode she'd already seen 4 or 5 times. (How can that women watch the same episode so many times??)
So, that being said, I will give the fixed portrait locations a +1 and a big thumbs u.... my hand is still pretty cramped, so never mind. |
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
106
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Posted - 2015.07.16 19:47:38 -
[11] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:This is exactly the kind of thinking bad user interfaces are founded on.
Wasting developer time because you can't bother to look at one of THREE massive portraits when logging in?
That's exactly the kind of thinking that wasted development time (that could be spent on more content for the game) is founded on
They show in the order you logged in. If you just logged off an alt, just don't click the first character, assuming it's a challenge for you to pay attention when logging in... |
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2015.07.16 21:19:35 -
[12] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote: 3 nights ago.... my fresh hot cup of coffee
(I though it odd that blood covering the lens of your eye doesn't burn.
Then she went back in the other room and watched a CSI episode she'd already seen 4 or 5 times. (How can that women watch the same episode so many times??)
1: fake story, nobody would have a still scalding cup of coffee while they are logging off from a gaming session long enough to cramp your hand. You would have drank the coffee long before that or you wouldn't even be starting your session yet, hence no cramp. Mutually exclusive situations. Pick a better story mudblood.
2: blood evolved for more purposes than just circulating oxygen and nutrients around the body, it also delivers white blood cells to clean infections and stem cells to replace damaged tissue, hence the plasma it's based off of does not cause any adverse negative reactions to the body. That would defeat the purpose.
3: some people find catharsis in the tranquility of the familiar, and the repetition of the everyday routine. If they already know what's going to happen there is no stress. Much like mission running.
Also +1 to the idea that ccp could just let one dude spend 20 minutes a week working on it until it's done. Won't take that long. Won't hurt other projects. Might be nice to just drag and pin their locations. Meh. |
Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
107
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Posted - 2015.07.16 21:40:56 -
[13] - Quote
Kasia en Tilavine wrote: Also +1 to the idea that ccp could just let one dude spend 20 minutes a week working on it until it's done. Won't take that long. Won't hurt other projects. Might be nice to just drag and pin their locations. Meh.
It would hurt other projects by 20 minutes/week of lost time, assuming they do what you just said. |
Spectre 666
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2015.07.17 00:16:31 -
[14] - Quote
would also prefer the remain positionally stable.
+1 |
Thor Auriga
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2015.07.17 05:11:49 -
[15] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:I counter you ith I prefer it the way it is, it gives me a positive indicator of which character was the last one logged in and I prefer it that way.
I can respect that.
Can you give me an example of a situation in which this positive indicator is useful though? In all honesty I can't think of one. I would think that for instance when you do your PI you'll want to log in on everyone of your characters, in which case knowing when they were last accessed is useful information. But even then it would be better to keep the portraits put and show that information as text. |
Valkin Mordirc
1247
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Posted - 2015.07.17 05:28:50 -
[16] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:Donnachadh wrote:How about no it is stupid you TF Diomedes wrote:"Stupid is as stupid does." Cidanel Afuran wrote:It's not that hard. Ralph King-Griffin wrote:how the op isn't used to it by now escapes me. This is exactly the kind of thinking bad user interfaces are founded on.
Quit the bullshit
People don't like your idea.
Don't be a prick about it
#DeleteTheWeak
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Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
89
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Posted - 2015.07.17 05:34:19 -
[17] - Quote
Seeing as MANY of the CCP groups sort of do their own side projects - many of which if players knew about, we would consider a waste of time (like all this ship skins that I love so much, other people hate them.)
Seeing as the OPs statement is both bad and horrible (calling people stupid, someone should pod him), I can see where you mere mortals would make such a mistake, thanks to the lack of an option to lock characters to their spot.
+1 from me for the option to lock characters positions. -1 to the grumpy people who think CCP doesn't already waste time on side projects, or those who don't like an idea and consider it a waste of time. Almost wish they would stop breathing, means more oxygen for those of us, who might not like something, but are not so stuck in our ways that we refuse any change to how something works.
As a side note - the OP might have been like me and only had one character per-account until this last Christmas, so the whole character shuffle isn't something they are used to.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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Thor Auriga
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2015.07.17 06:30:14 -
[18] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:Seeing as MANY of the CCP groups sort of do their own side projects - many of which if players knew about, we would consider a waste of time (like all this ship skins that I love so much, other people hate them.)
Seeing as the OPs statement is both bad and horrible (calling people stupid, someone should pod him), I can see where you mere mortals would make such a mistake, thanks to the lack of an option to lock characters to their spot.
+1 from me for the option to lock characters positions. -1 to the grumpy people who think CCP doesn't already waste time on side projects, or those who don't like an idea and consider it a waste of time.
Let me be clear. My intention was not to call anyone stupid, except the user interface. On the contrary I fail to see how calling people stupid would positively contribute to the common effort of making Eve better. I invite you to pod me for the misunderstanding and failed rhetoric.
Also thank you for being a voice of reason in this conversation in which participants seem to tend to think to be at some sort of command as to how CCP developers use their time and effort. |
Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
89
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Posted - 2015.07.17 09:13:52 -
[19] - Quote
No problem Thor -
I can see where a lot of people come from. Even a number of my ideas get shot down hard core. Most of the time I try to keep cool and only think about stomping their faces in with my boothill (boot to the head, na na). Sometimes I rant back at them -fracken Trolls.
As long as your term "stupid" was for the UI and not the people - I won't have to invite you to my home system to shoot you.
xoxo
Amarisen Gream
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Angelica Dreamstar
Miner's House of ill repute
1003
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Posted - 2015.07.17 11:41:48 -
[20] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:Have you ever logged out of your alt, logged back in to switch over to your main, and clicked on the wrong portrait, ending up logging in with your alt again?
Yes you have. Stupid you!
Well not really. It's the interface that's stupid, not you. It shuffles the character portraits, thus setting you a trap. Where you click is based on your memory, not the (now changed) user interface.
I understand that CCP's idea behind the shuffling is to present the characters in the order they were last accessed. This however is not how our brains work. Our brains want things to stay put, or alternatively, control their location themselves (as in much of the rest of the Eve interface).
Instead of shuffling the portraits, please present the characters in the order they were originally created, or alternatively, in the order of time spent logged online. Or even let the players shuffle the order themselves. Either is vastly better than the error-prone current situation. No, it's you (and me) who are stupid. Because we can see where we should click. But automatic behaviour makes us click somewhere else. Don't blame the game, blame yourself. It's easily provable that it's our fault, because we simply aren't looking and blindly assuming it's where it always is. And that's just nuts.
No, sorry, it's us who are stupid and you hqve to accept that you could do much better, even if it's hard for you to understand. Stop blaming the world for your mistakes and pay attention to what you do instead.
That being said, not having them change position would still be nice, because there's no real reason why they should swap around. Your reasoning behind that, though, is not even silly.
"Even if I am the best battleship pilot ever to have played eve and funded by the richest alliance how long will it take before I can fly one from 0sp? Months? Years?" - Eleygen I'cey, instant gratification addict and proud of not making any sense.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
369
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Posted - 2015.07.17 13:46:30 -
[21] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:Donnachadh wrote:I counter you ith I prefer it the way it is, it gives me a positive indicator of which character was the last one logged in and I prefer it that way. I can respect that. Can you give me an example of a situation in which this positive indicator is useful though? In all honesty I can't think of one. I would think that for instance when you do your PI you'll want to log in on everyone of your characters, in which case knowing when they were last accessed is useful information. But even then it would be better to keep the portraits put and show that information as text. A valid question from someone that is incapable of thinking outside of his/her own personal experiences so let me give you more than ONE valid reason.
Some of us have lives that we live, lives full of something other than EvE.
Some of us have jobs that routinely take us to places where we cannot log in due to many factors beyond our control.
Some of us simply forget things we do no do every day because we are older(60 plus) and the usual old age curse of our memories not being what they used to be dogs us day and night.
All of these and hundreds of others that I could list can and often do take us away from the game for a week or more at a time. When you combine these all together it is better for us to have the last character we logged in clearly identified. I hope this helps to break you out of your extremely narrowly focused view of who and what EvE players are, and I hope it helps you understand my logic on wanting to keep the launcher and how it handles portraits the same as it is now.
Fixed position portraits would not be optimal under any circumstances for us but if there was some form of positive identification made in the launcher of the last character that was logged in it would be workable. Maybe making that character's portrait twice the size of the others, or perhaps a bright bold border around the portrait of the last character logged in.
A setting that allowed each player to choose the behavior of the launcher as others have mentioned would likely be the best option.
If it has to be one way or the other than I still say NO to your OP, leave it the way it is.
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Thor Auriga
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:02:41 -
[22] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:A valid question from someone that is incapable of thinking outside of his/her own personal experiences so let me give you more than ONE valid reason.
Some of us have lives that we live, lives full of something other than EvE.
Some of us have jobs that routinely take us to places where we cannot log in due to many factors beyond our control.
Some of us simply forget things we do no do every day because we are older(60 plus) and the usual old age curse of our memories not being what they used to be dogs us day and night. I am glad if your venting made you feel better. Still I fail to see how any of this answers my question so let me rephrase: Give me an example of an in-game situation in which knowing, at login, the order in which your characters were last logged in, matters, and how that knowledge affects your decision making?
Donnachadh wrote:Fixed position portraits would not be optimal under any circumstances for us but if there was some form of positive identification made in the launcher of the last character that was logged in it would be workable. [...] perhaps a bright bold border around the portrait of the last character logged in. This is actually a good idea.
Donnachadh wrote:A setting that allowed each player to choose the behavior of the launcher as others have mentioned would likely be the best option. And this is not. The idea is to make the user interface simpler, not more complex. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10819
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:39:35 -
[23] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:Donnachadh wrote:I counter you ith I prefer it the way it is, it gives me a positive indicator of which character was the last one logged in and I prefer it that way. I can respect that. Can you give me an example of a situation in which this positive indicator is useful though? In all honesty I can't think of one. I would think that for instance when you do your PI you'll want to log in on everyone of your characters, in which case knowing when they were last accessed is useful information. But even then it would be better to keep the portraits put and show that information as text. scout alts - which one is the current active one
logoff traps - facilitates quickly re-logging
no offence meant earlier but i also like the current method and think disabling the shuffle would infact remove some (admittedly trivial ) utility.
you are using your biased subjective opinion on the ui to say its objectively bad so no -1 overall , just because you don't like it doesn't mean its a bad ui feature.
=]|[=
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Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
58
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Posted - 2015.07.17 15:21:32 -
[24] - Quote
Angelica Dreamstar wrote: No, it's you (and me) who are stupid. Because we can see where we should click. But automatic behaviour makes us click somewhere else. Don't blame the game, blame yourself. It's easily provable that it's our fault, because we simply aren't looking and blindly assuming it's where it always is. And that's just nuts.
No, sorry, it's us who are stupid and you hqve to accept that you could do much better, even if it's hard for you to understand. Stop blaming the world for your mistakes and pay attention to what you do instead.
That being said, not having them change position would still be nice, because there's no real reason why they should swap around. Your reasoning behind that, though, is not even silly.
A userinterface that dont account for the user part IS stupid :P We could ofc use command code to interface with the game, i mean if the UI is not suppoed to make it easier for normal humans anyway. |
Thorr VonAsgard
Never Surrender. Drama Sutra
66
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Posted - 2015.07.17 15:31:01 -
[25] - Quote
I support this IDEA !
You miss blink ? Come and play with us at EVE-Lotteries.com !
Envie de fraicheur ? Frugu, le forum fruité est fait pour toi !
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Valkin Mordirc
1249
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Posted - 2015.07.17 16:00:08 -
[26] - Quote
Thorr VonAsgard wrote:I support this IDEA !
You must be pretty full of yourself to think no one would recognize your alt.
Or pretty stupid.
Might explain why you are so adamant about this.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Thor Auriga
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2015.07.17 16:19:14 -
[27] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:You must be pretty full of yourself to think no one would recognize your alt.
Or pretty stupid.
Might explain why you are so adamant about this. Wow. A second valuable contribution to the discussion, huh? The Internet never ceases to amaze me.
I don't even speak French well enough to understand his sig. |
Thor Auriga
Drastic Measures. Solyaris Chtonium
0
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Posted - 2015.07.17 16:39:04 -
[28] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:scout alts - which one is the current active one
logoff traps - facilitates quickly re-logging Thank you. Hadn't thought of scout alts.
Do you think Donnachadh's idea of an active border could work with that as well though?
I'm not sure logoff traps deserve to be specifically facilitated however...
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:you are using your biased subjective opinion on the ui to say its objectively bad so no -1 overall , just because you don't like it doesn't mean its a bad ui feature. I fully agree with you in that someone liking or not liking a UI feature is not a good basis for making UI decisions. Not liking the user interface is not my point here, either; I'm reporting a consistent and tendency to error that does not contribute to gameplay. I hope we can agree that that's objective.
The same thinking goes the other way around, too, mind you: The fact that something objectively works for one person doesn't make it a great feature for everyone. I admit to assuming that I am not the only one to repeatedly fall into the shuffle trap. The quality of this particular user interface feature depends on how many people experience the same issue. |
Iain Cariaba
1654
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Posted - 2015.07.17 16:53:13 -
[29] - Quote
Thor Auriga wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:scout alts - which one is the current active one
logoff traps - facilitates quickly re-logging Thank you. Hadn't thought of scout alts. Do you think Donnachadh's idea of an active border could work with that as well though? I'm not sure logoff traps deserve to be specifically facilitated however... Ralph King-Griffin wrote:you are using your biased subjective opinion on the ui to say its objectively bad so no -1 overall , just because you don't like it doesn't mean its a bad ui feature. I fully agree with you in that someone liking or not liking a UI feature is not a good basis for making UI decisions. Not liking the user interface is not my point here, either; I'm reporting a consistent and tendency to error that does not contribute to gameplay. I hope we can agree that that's objective. The same thinking goes the other way around, too, mind you: The fact that something objectively works for one person doesn't make it a great feature for everyone. I admit to assuming that I am not the only one to repeatedly fall into the shuffle trap. The quality of this particular user interface feature depends on how many people experience the same issue. Every single game I've played in the last few years has had the character order shift based on the last one played, even single player ones. While I'm not normally a supporter of the "but other games have it, so should EvE" concept, the shuffling character selection screen is not anything new, and has been around since before EvE.
Unfortunately, any words I could use to describe those who are unable to figure out which character they want to log in out of three massive options would be snipped by ISD.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Will troll for a t-shirt.
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Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
108
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Posted - 2015.07.17 17:35:47 -
[30] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote: Unfortunately, any words I could use to describe those who are unable to figure out which character they want to log in out of three massive options would be snipped by ISD.
not empty quoting |
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