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zsz empty
Usque Ad Mortem Usurper.
0
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Posted - 2015.07.16 23:55:33 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys, so im reading all these posts on the baddon fits and im just drawing complete blanks... everyone says the cap is terrible - well i am pretty skilled, no implants 3x cap rechargers and i have zero cap problems, i run all lasers with conflag, tracking comp 3 energized adaptive and a t2 large repper constantly - cap stable at 39%... the only sacrifice is no AB/MWD, but if i were to fit one i could pulse it without being absolutely capless.
my problem in the baddon is range - people say that apoc is better for sniping, so i made a tachyon t2 build... 8 guns required a reactor control but i crammed em in there, still cap stable and my range with optimal range script/Aurora is 148+37!!!!!!!! now i read other posts and people are saying you cant snipe - my trouble is i can rarely even get at that extreme a range.
so im looking for the best combination of crystals and guns in order to be able to fire at rats at all basic ranges - i need the best combo of tracking comp/script/crystal/laser to work effectively at 10-50, 50-100 and 100-120 (dont think any more is practical since i can already get more and found it pointless in most missions)
also - just a general question but i see everyone spec hardens, i just go 3x energized adaptive and i can tank most l4s indefinitely unless i agro the whole damn spawn + 2 waves or something ridiculous like that... named char hit me with 200 damage penetrates and its just not a problem to stay at full armor and 50%+ cap... my problem is damage projection, which is wierd since everyone here says that baddon does big damage but cos of cap cant damage and tank.
not posting a build because i dont have one, im still playing around with it and am looking for advice on what to get - im not looking to spend big, so t2 is as expensive as Ill go (no faction please, i know they are awesome but im not spending that much isk on em)
thanks for reading and i hope you guys can help, i been out the game for years and i remember hating this thing for its horrendous cap use - now i come back and its so OP i dont know how to make it work like i want :D :D |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
239
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Posted - 2015.07.17 00:00:53 -
[2] - Quote
What's your actual question? |
zsz empty
Usque Ad Mortem Usurper.
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Posted - 2015.07.17 00:02:10 -
[3] - Quote
"so im looking for the best combination of crystals and guns in order to be able to fire at rats at all basic ranges - i need the best combo of tracking comp/script/crystal/laser to work effectively at 10-50, 50-100 and 100-120 (dont think any more is practical since i can already get more and found it pointless in most missions)" |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
746
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Posted - 2015.07.17 01:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
If it doesn't have to be a the Abbadon, I suggest a Navy Apoc, better fitting, better everything, worst pricetag ever (not joking).
At least in a Navy Apoc you can mjd 100km away for things that are too close, lock at kill them with fire (of beams).
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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zsz empty
Usque Ad Mortem Usurper.
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Posted - 2015.07.17 01:31:56 -
[5] - Quote
you got a point - but im poor atm, what would be the best combo with the mods i already got laying around (t2 lasers of every kind, alot of cap mods etc - normal amarr t2 stuff) please include a summary of ranges and crystals that you guys use... i see some people use t2 crystals... some people go faction...some people use normal L crystals or a mix of the aforementioned - whats the best combo of these at different ranges for maximum damage?
no idea if it matters but im running missions out of lustrevik in minmitar space - mostly angels with some amarr navy/caldari navy rats. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
748
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Posted - 2015.07.17 01:53:32 -
[6] - Quote
zsz empty wrote:you got a point - but im poor atm, what would be the best combo with the mods i already got laying around (t2 lasers of every kind, alot of cap mods etc - normal amarr t2 stuff) please include a summary of ranges and crystals that you guys use... i see some people use t2 crystals... some people go faction...some people use normal L crystals or a mix of the aforementioned - whats the best combo of these at different ranges for maximum damage?
no idea if it matters but im running missions out of lustrevik in minmitar space - mostly angels with some amarr navy/caldari navy rats.
Ouuh
I hate to say this but lasers are not the best solution for Angels. And for shooting NPCs I always use tech1 crystals, which would be Radio L, Standard L, Multifrequency L but you can use Aurora L if you need the range and Gleam L for things that got too close. Use a mjd to jump away from those that came too close to track, positioning is key, not tracking comupters. And if you cant beat them, join or mimic them.
They use painters? Do the same! Snipe from far away and you can sink most of everything small quickly.
When you have the time later, train Caldari and fly the Nightmare - that ships does her name justice (and as far as I have seen, she is cheaper then the Napoc anyway).
Also don't forget, the Napoc (Navy Apoc) has a dronebay, use it for small ships that orbit you at 5km. In case the Navy Apoc is too expensive now, fly the Apoc and fit Mega Beam Lasers instead of Tachyons, that you free up some fitting for you. And don't shy away from a sensor booster with scripts for faster locking smaller stuff. The range on the regular Apoc is good enough. Stay with beams and don't let youself be orbitted by Angels, show them who their master is
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2350
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:16:50 -
[7] - Quote
Ouch indeed on Angels. On the plus side, their ewar is a joke and they tend to have fewer raw hitpoints than other rats. On the minus, their resists are stacked against lasers.
As for which crystals. Let's break down how this logic works.
Laser crystals do some combination of EM and thermal damage. Closer range crystals have a relatively large thermal component while longer range crystals skew towards EM until you hit Radio and get to pure EM. Closer range crystals also do more absolute damage.
Angels (ignoring for a moment Angel Webifiers and Vipers, which are definitely odd) have resists, low to high, of exp/kin/therm/EM. Ergo, you want to maximize the amount of thermal damage your lasers are doing and always want to pick the shortest range crystal you can for the job.
However, Angels also do the most damage up close, so you want to be able to keep some range. The ship that allows you to do that is the Apoc (or NApoc). The Abaddon lacks the range bonus so you end up having to rely on longer range crystals -- which will do more EM damage and thus lower effective damage.
So which crystals? Well, you aren't going to have to shoot out past 100km due to the Apoc's limited lock range. With perfect skills and two range-scripted T2 tracking computers, UV shoots to 94+33 -- so let's call that 100km. That should be your longest range option. Multifrequency is obviously your short range go-to. There are two in-between types: Xray and Gamma. Either is viable and you might as well carry them, especially since they both have much higher thermal components than UV. If you are fitting T2 guns you might as well carry Gleam as well; the 50% thermal damage is really nice to have around though the range is short enough that you need to consider how long you want to stick around at that point. At the very least it will be good for breaking the last few battleships on the field after there's no real remaining threat.
So do you spring for faction crystals? Yes. Yes you do. They don't break that often; just buy them. It's an Apoc; they aren't known for raw damage so pump it up as much as you can. |
GordonO
Caldari Provisions
139
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:30:07 -
[8] - Quote
Best combination is a mobile depot.. also stacking 3 x EANM is a waste
... What next ??
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zsz empty
Usque Ad Mortem Usurper.
0
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Posted - 2015.07.17 02:38:56 -
[9] - Quote
i get its a waste - but it seems to work better for the angels (wierd i know) i tried going active with kin/exp but for some reason they shredded me way quicker than they did when i went EANM II.... maybe just bad luck on a mission or something but the difference is significant... honestly i can sit there and tank whole camps for 4-5mins without actually getting under 50% cap, back in the day we used to fit t2 meds as a constant rep and t2 large as a backup for pulsing - i see this is not done anymore...
at any rate thank you very much to zhillia and elitatwo for the very comprehensive explanations and thats exactly what i needed to know - already got a mobile depot, and im thinking if i find a way to fit a MJD (im yet to use one, did not exist in my day) i can jump out to 100, drop a depot and start shredding with beams and then switch out to pulses once they get under 60 or so... and i will get faction crystals - i just didnt want faction guns as they are too pricy... crystals are acceptable.
thanks again guys - very appreciated! :))
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elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
749
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Posted - 2015.07.17 04:03:13 -
[10] - Quote
zsz empty wrote:i get its a waste - but it seems to work better for the angels (wierd i know) i tried going active with kin/exp but for some reason they shredded me way quicker than they did when i went EANM II....
You're welcome!
Another note, you can use 2x eanm and instead of a thrid use a reactive armor hardener, they don't stack with eanms and shift to whatever damage is hitting the most. You can only fit one per ship but it is a very strong module and worth the train.
Nobody uses faction guns, we always mean faction ammo and whenever possible tech2 guns.
Tired of low and nullsec? Join Eve Minions and experience the beauty of wormholes!
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2015.07.17 04:44:32 -
[11] - Quote
don't waste too much of your time with the baddon, train for the NMs and armor tank it using tachs + navymulti and watch the rats melt with ease in any lev 4 mission (angel included). |
Kosetzu
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
139
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Posted - 2015.07.17 05:35:16 -
[12] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:don't waste too much of your time with the baddon, train for the NMs and armor tank it using tachs + navymulti and watch the rats melt with ease in any lev 4 mission (angel included). Why would you armor tank such a beauty? Shield tank for more damage mods I'd say is better =) |
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
3824
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Posted - 2015.07.17 05:37:11 -
[13] - Quote
This seems okay, it's really slow though and uses Pulse instead of Beams though.
[Abaddon, Eddard Stark] Large Armor Repairer II Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
100MN Afterburner II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Nanobot Accelerator I
Oh god.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
39
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Posted - 2015.07.17 06:13:29 -
[14] - Quote
Kosetzu wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:don't waste too much of your time with the baddon, train for the NMs and armor tank it using tachs + navymulti and watch the rats melt with ease in any lev 4 mission (angel included). Why would you armor tank such a beauty? Shield tank for more damage mods I'd say is better =)
Well either way works, but if you want cap stability without having to rely on cap boosters then it's best to armor tank the NMs.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1236
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Posted - 2015.07.17 07:10:06 -
[15] - Quote
zsz empty wrote: i run all lasers with conflag,
my problem in the baddon is range -
that answered itself
zsz empty wrote:the only sacrifice is no AB/MWD,
Pretty big sacrifice since you also have no range.
zsz empty wrote:people say that apoc is better for sniping, so i made a tachyon t2 build... 8 guns required a reactor control but i crammed em in there, still cap stable and my range with optimal range script/Aurora is 148+37!!!!!!!! now i read other posts and people are saying you cant snipe - my trouble is i can rarely even get at that extreme a range.
Mostly see apocs fitted with pulses, quite a few missions have rats at 80km+
zsz empty wrote:so im looking for the best combination of crystals and guns in order to be able to fire at rats at all basic ranges - i need the best combo of tracking comp/script/crystal/laser to work effectively at 10-50, 50-100 and 100-120 (dont think any more is practical since i can already get more and found it pointless in most missions)
Bring a few of the navy ones, gamma/x-ray and standard should be in your hold.
zsz empty wrote:also - just a general question but i see everyone spec hardens, i just go 3x energized adaptive and i can tank most l4s indefinitely unless i agro the whole damn spawn + 2 waves or something ridiculous like that... named char hit me with 200 damage penetrates and its just not a problem to stay at full armor and 50%+ cap... my problem is damage projection, which is wierd since everyone here says that baddon does big damage but cos of cap cant damage and tank.
2 spec hardeners vs 3 eanms, can you not see the advantage in this?
And no, people do not say "big damage but cant damage and tank cos of cap". if you've read any of my posts thoroughly on the topic you wouldn't have posted this. |
Odithia
Rondass
80
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Posted - 2015.07.17 14:53:18 -
[16] - Quote
Don't bother with laser battleships for PVE unless it's a Paladin/Nightmare. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1293
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Posted - 2015.07.17 19:48:48 -
[17] - Quote
Odithia wrote:Don't bother with laser battleships for PVE unless it's a Paladin/Nightmare.
and nightmares are so cheap these days
In a CNR you can run most missions on the natural cap buffer and recharge of the ship since you are just using cap for pulsing the shield booster where on the abaddon you would go dry just shooting the guns. I'm not sure how well a cap boosted abaddon would do. but on the abaddon you don't need to use your rigs for damage application so it doesn't hurt as much to use them for cap, although using them for range/tracking would be nice. and with the way cap mods stack to get it anywhere near cap stable you have to use a ton of slots, and at that point adding one more makes it completely cap stable.
tl;dr agree completely get a nightmare/paladin
@ChainsawPlankto
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Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
260
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Posted - 2015.07.17 22:58:51 -
[18] - Quote
Odithia wrote:Don't bother with laser battleships for PVE unless it's a Paladin/Nightmare.
This is true for endgame boats however I suspect our dear OP isn't quite at that level.
A Navy Apoc is your best bet until you can fly those top tier killing machines. Its easy on you SP wise and very cap forgiving if fit properly. Fit 3 specific hardeners (2xEM/1xTHRML for example), a faction rapper (Imperial Navy reps are a good balance of price vs performance) and the rest heat sinks (preferably faction). Fit MP II's and have TACHS and a depot in your hull to switch out when needed. I will post you a rightoues fit when I get to pyfa but those are the basics and the rest is pretty easy to figure out either thru some solid google-fu or by applying some good ol fashion common sense.
HTH
Aral
Oderint Dum Metuant
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
10829
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Posted - 2015.07.18 02:04:18 -
[19] - Quote
Odithia wrote:Don't bother with laser battleships for PVE unless it's a Paladin/Nightmare. eeeeehhhh the amarr navy would like a word with you
=]|[=
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2015.07.18 02:55:36 -
[20] - Quote
Odithia wrote:Don't bother with laser battleships for PVE unless it's a Paladin/Nightmare.
This in a nutshell.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2015.07.18 02:58:13 -
[21] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Odithia wrote:Don't bother with laser battleships for PVE unless it's a Paladin/Nightmare. eeeeehhhh the amarr navy would like a word with you Aralieus wrote:
This is true for endgame boats however I suspect our dear OP isn't quite at that level.
A Navy Apoc is your best bet until you can fly those top tier killing machines. Its easy on you SP wise and very cap forgiving if fit properly. Fit 3 specific hardeners (2xEM/1xTHRML for example), a faction rapper (Imperial Navy reps are a good balance of price vs performance) and the rest heat sinks (preferably faction). Fit MP II's and have TACHS and a depot in your hull to switch out when needed. I will post you a rightoues fit when I get to pyfa but those are the basics and the rest is pretty easy to figure out either thru some solid google-fu or by applying some good ol fashion common sense.
HTH
Aral
Ngeddon is a fantastic boat too, very face melty.
The NM is 2x better and cost less or the same.
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Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
261
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Posted - 2015.07.18 07:03:02 -
[22] - Quote
I agree with that...Nightmare is an absolute beast rivaled only by the Paladin but I assumed he wanted to stick with armor. If tanking style doesn't really matter then Nightmare will serve you well.
Oderint Dum Metuant
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zsz empty
Usque Ad Mortem Usurper.
0
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Posted - 2015.07.18 07:48:51 -
[23] - Quote
very good replies and im gonna invest in a nightmare, i like the ngeddon too, but always found the apoc model less phallic-y :D
i got the SP to run em, i was just being cheap and had a baddon laying around, but tbh i earn enough in it to warrant getting a NM in a week or so... back to grinding for that NM ^^
thanks alot - these forums and you guys rock! <3 :3
Fly Safe o7 |
Blackfeathers
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
25
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Posted - 2015.07.18 08:35:52 -
[24] - Quote
Angel rats deal a horrible mix of damage - but mainly explosive / Kinetic. You will need some therm / em tank too though, otherwise some of them will really hit that hole hard.
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/npc_ships.php?supergroup=1&return_to= <- scroll down and look for the npcs you fight the most. |
voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
345
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Posted - 2015.07.19 08:22:38 -
[25] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:This seems okay, it's really slow though and uses Pulse instead of Beams though.
[Abaddon, Eddard Stark] Large Armor Repairer II Armor EM Hardener II Armor EM Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II
100MN Afterburner II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Script
Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L Mega Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Radio L
Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Energy Locus Coordinator II Large Nanobot Accelerator I
I used a fit very similar to this for a long time. In the mids I had a Heavy cap booster (might have been an electrochemical or T2 can't recall) and I played around with rigs a bit. At one point I had several abaddons, the one I Iiked best had 2 x T2 Eleutriation and an Anti-EM pump IIRC. That could hit for full damage with T2 Mega Pulse and Scorch at 54km. The Eleutriation rigs are pretty cheap, used to be about 20 mill a few years ago but are around 10m @ now due to the drop in prices of T2 salvage.
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zsz empty
Usque Ad Mortem Usurper.
0
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Posted - 2015.07.19 20:48:28 -
[26] - Quote
voetius - did solo L4's consist of warping in - killing as much as possible and bugging out or could you tank it cap boosting?... cos sometimes they hurt my tank and im cap stable running a repper and an AB autocycle - but then again not all my armor skills are at 5... some at 3, some at 4 |
Kosetzu
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
141
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Posted - 2015.07.19 21:35:58 -
[27] - Quote
zsz empty wrote:voetius - did solo L4's consist of warping in - killing as much as possible and bugging out or could you tank it cap boosting?... cos sometimes they hurt my tank and im cap stable running a repper and an AB autocycle - but then again not all my armor skills are at 5... some at 3, some at 4 Were you cap stable without a cap booster? That sounds like a suboptimal fit then. In missions you generally don't need all that much cap time for running the repper.
Also your cap skills are a lot more important for how long your cap can run. Controlled Bursts is a very important skill to train with lasers also. 5% reduction in activation cost per level. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1242
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Posted - 2015.07.19 21:48:17 -
[28] - Quote
If you need to be capstable in level 4 missions you're doing something wrong. |
zsz empty
Usque Ad Mortem Usurper.
0
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Posted - 2015.07.20 03:28:19 -
[29] - Quote
i could probably go for higher damage with another sink over a hardner - id need to pay more attention however... ah the dilemmas life throws at you :D
alot of really good info - basically got me up to speed on how to amarr now ^^ |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1307
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Posted - 2015.07.20 08:27:03 -
[30] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:If you need to be capstable in level 4 missions you're doing something wrong. amarr t1 boats go from no cap to cap stable very quickly. I assume if you are flying a t1 bs for lv4s that you don't have very good skills so missions take longer and having some extra cap is a good thing. I'm not sure the ships have enough cap to just run the guns. My old paladin fit had a bit over 5 mins of cap which was plenty for any mission with 4 cap recharge slots. now I just have a CCC rig and the main reason it works is the undersized rep which reps more than the old large rep thanks to bastion. EFT says the cap lasts about 8 mins, and I've noticed it dipping down on the longer missions, so I'd fit a cap recharger instead of the third tracking comp.
1100 dps paladin that never has to swap from IN Multi still takes 15ish mins to clear the blockade. a t1 bs is probably doing about 1/2 the damage between not using tachs and using lower damage longer ranged ammo. hell a nightmare is doing less damage due to using longer range ammo, also I don't really like nightmare fits with a t2 rof rig as it drains their cap a bit fast. a cap boosted t1 bs I imagine many cap boosters. a cap stable fit will turn it into something of a slugfest, can't remember how long that used to take.
half tempted to go try out a few lv4s in a t1 amarr bs, but such a huge step back from the nightmare/paladin where it is easy to say cap stability doesn't matter.
@ChainsawPlankto
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