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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2383
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Posted - 2015.07.21 14:28:19 -
[1] - Quote
Hello space friends,
You may remember me from such great initiatives such as Kill-It-Forward, the Order Of The Glowing Dildo, and as a purveyor of such fine narrative works as The Hisec Asshats Handbook.
I have troubling news however.
After careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that hisec should be reduced in size by 75%, have all safeties locked at GREEN, and all ISK generation in areas other than nullsec nerfed into the ground; all as incentive to get more players into the nullsec warfare stories and narrative that have been proven to actually drive new player subscriptions.
This is not a troll.
My friends, EvE has become stagnant, devoid of content and lacklustre; in no small part because of the half-measures CCP took in partially nerfing hisec agression mechanics, while not having a comprehensive plan to get more people into the null storyline.
So it is with regret, I hand in my champion-of-hisec-asshattery card, and no longer call for the preservation of hisec agression mechanics. I instead plead with everyone still there, be ye ganker, wardeccer, merc, asshat, pirate or fetishist of mixed sort, come join me down in nullsec.
Let's make EvE great again, or more accurately -- what those media stories claimed it was, back when we originally joined.
Yes, it will take hard work. CCP must finally put a bullet in the head of TiDi, and fine-tune the positive steps they have taken with jump ranges, fatigue and new SOV mechanics. However, you must choose, as I recently did -- to either watch the hisec we love slowly wither and die to a lack of strategy from CCP; or just leave the entire mess for a land of PVP milk and honey, where there are no more pansies, no more gate guns and more dank ISK than you can shake a stick at.
Nullsec. It's time. It's your time.
Be assured, when you arrive down here, I will greet and embrace you all as brother,
Respectfully,
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen, Grand Inquisitor of HTFU, Retired Dark Lord of Crux, Retired
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
494
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Posted - 2015.07.21 14:29:53 -
[2] - Quote
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Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
2833
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Posted - 2015.07.21 14:42:51 -
[3] - Quote
If this is a suggesRion it should be in the features and ideas subforum.
For it's just some of your typical inane rambling it needs to go wherever locked threads go. |
Mobadder Thworst
Noob Farmers Bad Neighbors.
494
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Posted - 2015.07.21 14:54:01 -
[4] - Quote
I've tried null.
The problem is that there are no emotions in null.(and small team mechanics aren't really a thing there).
Kills there are only greeted with "gf".
I want drama, laughs, and real conflict. I wanted to get to know my targets. I wanted to hunt individuals and have a dialogue.
That's what used to be available in high-sec. That's why we stayed in high sec. It was a lot of fun.
Sadly, it isn't what it used to be.
It's not in null. The question is whether there is another game out yet that can supply it. |
Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
190
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Posted - 2015.07.21 15:12:04 -
[5] - Quote
Why should low sec ISKs be nerfed? |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1133
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Posted - 2015.07.21 15:19:46 -
[6] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:The problem is that there are no emotions in null.(and small team mechanics aren't really a thing there).
i feel you here, the other day we dropped 5 rattlesnakes and a chimera on some test bears only to get blobbed by a fleet of 70 :) it was fun though
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Renegade Heart
Carebear Miners R Us
506
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Posted - 2015.07.21 16:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
So, you are saying that nullsec still sucks despite changes, so we should nerf everything else and see if that works?
I think you'd just end up with even more empty null sec systems if this happened, and the variety of emergent gameplay in the sandbox would be greatly diminished.
I'd probably still play though |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2384
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Posted - 2015.07.21 16:54:38 -
[8] - Quote
Renegade Heart wrote:So, you are saying that nullsec still sucks despite changes, so we should nerf everything else and see if that works? I think you'd just end up with even more empty null sec systems if this happened, and the variety of emergent gameplay in the sandbox would be greatly diminished. I'd probably still play though I have confidence in greed.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6414
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Posted - 2015.07.21 17:03:25 -
[9] - Quote
On your blogpost, the changes down to nerfs to others space I pretty much agree with. I too miss battleships and think they need a serious kick into relevance. As for the nerfs though, I just don't see why. EVE is a sandbox and people can play how they want. Punishing them for not choosing nullsec seems the wrong way to go about it.
Personally I'd go about it slightly differently. Just off the top of my head. each section of space would be viable but amplified in their focus. I'd have: WH: Exploration focused. Loads of undiscovered and unique things, lots of variety. A few more WH station systems like Thera would be needed. Null: Ownership, customised space, fleet battles and guerilla war. Low: Pirate haven, shift faction warfare to work with pirate factions too. Rebuild FW so people actually need to fight. More ranges of PvE as well as PvP missions to assist with FW High: Safe, lower income. More variety and completxity to missions and mining. very much PvE focused.
I'd then make it much tougher to move large ships between the sections of space. So moving a freighter from high to null or high to low or null to low, etc would be more akin to moving them to WH space. Moving smaller ships between these would still be pretty simple. The idea would be to push for more self sufficiency within each type of system. A new player would get a clear option to pick which section of space he wanted to start in along with an idea of what that would entail.
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Renegade Heart
Carebear Miners R Us
508
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Posted - 2015.07.21 19:04:57 -
[10] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:I have confidence in greed.
If the proposals were watered down somewhat, say, keep ganking around, wardecs, crimewatch, but also maybe remove concord from incursion sites and level 4 missions, make high sec a veldspar only zone, with other ores only available for those willing to take a higher risk, along with other such major nerfs to high sec, then I'd be 100% in favour.
I still imagine that this would achieve the desired affect of tempting greedy carebears into less secure spaces. But what you suggest is akin to smashing a drawing pin into a piece of jelly with a wrecking ball. |
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GordonO
Caldari Provisions
140
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Posted - 2015.07.21 21:21:35 -
[11] - Quote
Getting people in to null isn't going to change anything. The best\safest place to carebear is in null.
... What next ??
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
13745
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Posted - 2015.07.21 22:02:04 -
[12] - Quote
I maintain that there is a place for conflict in every part of New Eden, barring the rookie systems.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Yourmoney Mywallet
Jita Institute of Applied Monetary Manipulation
494
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Posted - 2015.07.21 23:35:13 -
[13] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:EVE is a sandbox and people can play how they want. Stop making sense, you. This is See 'n Pee you're posting to. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5193
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Posted - 2015.07.21 23:57:25 -
[14] - Quote
The first thing that makes highsec unique is that you are surrounded by a lot of neutrals. Most are actually neutral, but any one of them could be a threat.
The second factor is that the defender has a non-overwhelming advantage in any conflict.
These combine to create unique and valuable play experiences totally different from null's 'numbers trump almost everything, escape is almost impossible', low's combination of solitude and 'escape is almost always possible before you start fighting' and wormholes with their potential for rapid overwhelming escalations and more meaningful defeats (can't just reship).
So yeah - Feyd, your ideas are bad, but you shouldn't feel bad. Move on to null and take others with you, but we will keep highsec shenanigans alive like you used to.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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pushdogg
Tell Your Mum To Call Me Get Off My Lawn
34
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Posted - 2015.07.22 01:10:44 -
[15] - Quote
You can come to vale....although....you will only get gf's in local:/ |
Konrad Kane
135
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Posted - 2015.07.22 04:51:19 -
[16] - Quote
If we're nerfing low, high and wormhole income can we nerf NPC null as well? |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1143
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Posted - 2015.07.22 07:57:27 -
[17] - Quote
i will join you in null but i dream of supercapitals and im too poor to buy one myself
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Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
1796
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Posted - 2015.07.22 13:29:24 -
[18] - Quote
Another null sec is dead thread lets force people in high sec to play in null even if they don't want to... and at the same time kill the game(possibly - depends how much subs would be canceled after such change)
Akrasjel Lanate
Member of Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Citizen of Solitude
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2386
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Posted - 2015.07.22 13:30:39 -
[19] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote: .. So yeah - Feyd, your ideas are bad, but you shouldn't feel bad. Move on to null and take others with you, but we will keep highsec shenanigans alive like you used to.
I still love shenanigans in general, the problem is that CCP has already nerfed much of it in hisec, without counter-weight increases in draws & pressure to take part in the nullsec narrative that actually drives new player aquisition.
One needs to first acknowledge that premise, that stories of big fights like 6-VDT, BR5 and others in null are what primarily drive new player imaginations and cause spikes in new players joining EvE.
So it is in that context, that while EvE is at its core a pvp-centric spaceships game who's nullsec warfare narrative drives new player subscriptions -- why try to be that great burger joint on the corner that also tries to sell fish-sticks or salads to a niche market, when your burger stales start to go stagnant (or slump)?
I love asshattery, and remember my times doing same in hisec with great fondness, but my eyes have opened since moving to nullsec. I have now come to believe that by CCP trying to be all things to all people with core population density spread across too many zones of play, they miss out on critial-mass (in null) being constantly reached, and constantly generating those new player draw stories.
Its in that holistic context, that having played in all areas of EvE, I now believe in the nullsec thunderdome concept -- that for EvE to *grow* in the future, hard pressure must be brought to bear to get population density into null.
I fully support everyone's right to argue for status quo, because again I enjoyed those other areas of play; I just now firmly believe that for EvE to grow substantially, a bigger rethink is needed on where population density is driven to.
F
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1912
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Posted - 2015.07.22 13:39:06 -
[20] - Quote
I agree completely that hisec income should be lower. EvE is predicated on the notion of risk v reward, and in terms of income relative to the security status of the space you're in, this completely borked. Why should you be able to run the most profitable level IV missions in the middle of hisec in relative safety? I would suggest that all mission agents get re-located such that higher level/quality agents are only available in lower security systems. 1.0 security system? Level I agents, maybe a crappy level II. 0.5 system? Level IIIs, maybe a crappy level IV. For the best level IV agents, you'd need to go to losec just like you do for Level Vs. This makes sense not only from a gameplay balance standpoint but from a lore standpoint: the empires are weakest on their fringes, so this is where they're most likely to need capsuleer assistance.
I can also see the benefit of hisec being smaller, especially if it shrunk in such a way that there were fewer hisec routes between the empires. This would open up more areas of losec for piracy, create more competition for hisec space (and thus potential for conflict), and create more hisec chokepoints.
But a permanently green safety? Sorry, this I can't get behind. I understand the desire to kick the game out of safe mode, but to do this we need to make it more dangerous, not less, and effectively removing all risk from hisec trade hubs makes things far less dangerous.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
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Mobadder Thworst
Noob Farmers Bad Neighbors.
502
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Posted - 2015.07.22 14:00:33 -
[21] - Quote
If we are going to treat high like a noob zone (which we are), then I think the isk nerf should be severe enough to make it a serious undertaking to buy a good noob ship.
That is to say, it should be a substantial endeavor to purchase a cruiser on high sec wages.
In the current situation, you can run high sec incursions without serious risk and have the isk to purchase the largest class of high sec pilot able craft in a couple hours.
This kind of earnings is not commensurate with the noob zone of a game.
If it's a full rights play area with different mechanics, stop trying to make it safe.
If it's a noob zone, nerf the isk making such that it only supports noob endeavors.
The current configuration is out of alignment. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2386
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Posted - 2015.07.22 14:12:19 -
[22] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:If we are going to treat high like a noob zone (which we are), then I think the isk nerf should be severe enough to make it a serious undertaking to buy a good noob ship.
That is to say, it should be a substantial endeavor to purchase a cruiser on high sec wages.
In the current situation, you can run high sec incursions without serious risk and have the isk to purchase the largest class of high sec pilot able craft in a couple hours.
This kind of earnings is not commensurate with the noob zone of a game.
If it's a full rights play area with different mechanics, stop trying to make it safe.
If it's a noob zone, nerf the isk making such that it only supports noob endeavors.
The current configuration is out of alignment. Absolutely. I specifically called incursions out in my article. Even if the complete package of suggested changes don't happen, nerfing of hisec incursion income absolutely must.
F
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Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective
1370
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Posted - 2015.07.22 14:36:54 -
[23] - Quote
Feyd having read practically everything you have written in the last 18 months (huge fan) I gotta say I think you went a little too far with your usual shock tactics on this one . I agree income needs a balance and I can't really speak for what it's like in lowsec as I still need to try it but when I was out in nullsec it's income wasn't so much higher then highsec incursions it justified the risk involved. I think the huge shift of systems is a little extreme though as Nullsec is already so empty making more of it would simply separate people more then they already are. Shrink high a little and make it low for sure but we really do not need to spread out nullsec more then it is. Also the green safeties in highsec is something I can't support. Why make a mechanically safe place to live in eve? That will drive people too highsec not away from it income be damned. You want people out of highsec make it less safe not more
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
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Alana Charen-Teng
Vatlaa Corporation
622
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Posted - 2015.07.22 18:15:25 -
[24] - Quote
The thread is titled "Heresy of the Highest Order", so naturally I clicked on it on the off-chance that you were referring to the only Order that matters... I'm of course referring to the New Order. |
Valkin Mordirc
1273
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Posted - 2015.07.23 06:52:40 -
[25] - Quote
Im sorry I only have time to graze the blog,
But my limiting Highsec down, and still allowing Wardecs to happen. (which if I missed I'm sorry)
It make it impossible for corps to grown as Mercenary Alliances like Marmite and Forsaken, would literally clog up every system. If Highsec became small Wardec would have to be severally limited. I like Highsec the way it is now, Minus the high-income for incursion runners, however this change would destroy either my style of gameplay, or completely destroy any newbro that happens to join a corp.
#DeleteTheWeak
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John E Normus
The Conference Elite CODE.
613
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Posted - 2015.07.23 21:55:26 -
[26] - Quote
Alana Charen-Teng wrote:The thread is titled "Heresy of the Highest Order", so naturally I clicked on it on the off-chance that you were referring to the only Order that matters... I'm of course referring to the New Order.
hahaha, ditto
Between Ignorance and Wisdom
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Mobadder Thworst
Noob Farmers Bad Neighbors.
502
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Posted - 2015.07.23 23:45:57 -
[27] - Quote
I think CCP needs to get over trying to make it the structure they want and deal with what they have.
By the numbers, high sec is the game. Null and low are fringe areas where a minority of the subscription base plays. To change high sec to a noob zone would take an isk nerf that would hit the game like a torpedo.
Also, by the skill structure high sec is about all a 2 week account is going to be able to experience. No matter how cool null is, high sec is where your "pay up" decision will be made.
They need to pack more player made content into the noob space... Because that's the only ace Eve has... Because PVE in Eve is, at best, like playing checkers against an opponent who makes the same moves every time. |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2388
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Posted - 2015.07.24 01:18:21 -
[28] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Feyd having read practically everything you have written in the last 18 months (huge fan) I gotta say I think you went a little too far with your usual shock tactics on this one . I agree income needs a balance and I can't really speak for what it's like in lowsec as I still need to try it but when I was out in nullsec it's income wasn't so much higher then highsec incursions it justified the risk involved. I think the huge shift of systems is a little extreme though as Nullsec is already so empty making more of it would simply separate people more then they already are. Shrink high a little and make it low for sure but we really do not need to spread out nullsec more then it is. Also the green safeties in highsec is something I can't support. Why make a mechanically safe place to live in eve? That will drive people too highsec not away from it income be damned. You want people out of highsec make it less safe not more The only way I support green-safety'ing hisec, is as a total package of all the changes I propose, that's key.
First you nerf ISK generation *hard*, in hisec, losec and WH's. That's the greed driver.
Then physically shrink the size of hisec, to compress new players together into those fewer systems. This for three reasons - get them talking to each other and grouping up (more), reduce the ability to plant POS's etc, and also to make it clear visually on the map that EvE *is* nullsec, hisec is a starting area. That's the real-estate driver.
Then, you increase ship replacement insurance payouts, to further incentivize people to set aside risk-aversion, and lose their fear of shooting others in the face. That's the no-more-risk-aversion driver to remove ship loss fear from newbros.
*Then* you lock safeties at green in hisec, so that those PVP holdouts in hisec, get a final shove to get into the nullsec game; the overall driver for that is acknowledgement that its nullsec battles that drive new player hype and aquisition, more than anything else. That's the pew-pew driver.
What you end up with is people fleeing hisec, not fleeing to it -- because it will now be a no-ISK, no-PVP, no-ownership padded room for newbros; to learn game mechanics, but not *apply it* in a meaningful way -- they have to go to null to do that.
Yes, vets who live in other regions won't like any of this, but I am honestly thinking of the long term *growth* of EvE, which has remained stagnant over 10+ years, all because CCP has tried to be all things to all people, a *lacklustre* result of Fozzie SOV to create content, all while *atrocious* amounts of new players quit the game before actually experiencing what drove many of them to join in the first place..nullsec warfare.
That's nuts. Its bait and switch. No reason so many new players don't stay.
F
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Noragen Neirfallas
Dedicated and Dangerous The Marmite Collective
1387
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Posted - 2015.07.24 01:28:57 -
[29] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: content, all while *atrocious* amounts of new players quit the game before actually experiencing what drove many of them to join in the first place..nullsec warfare.
That's nuts. Its bait and switch. No reason so many new players don't stay.
F
What made you stay your first month? What got you to try eve? Mine are killed under wardec and a random internet friend sold me on the market aspect of the game while we chatted about making gold on wow.
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2388
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Posted - 2015.07.24 01:32:00 -
[30] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: But by limiting Highsec down, and still allowing Wardecs to happen. (which if I missed I'm sorry)
It make it impossible for corps to grown as Mercenary Alliances like Marmite and Forsaken, would literally clog up every system. If Highsec became small Wardec would have to be severally limited. I like Highsec the way it is now, Minus the high-income for incursion runners, however this change would destroy either my style of gameplay, or completely destroy any newbro that happens to join a corp.
Wardecs would be removed also. Will clarify that in the blog.
Quote: Edit1: Also I don't like Null-sec Fleets. Anchor and follow primaries, Is in no way interesting to me, small gang PVP is hard due to the fact that you could be blobbed to death. You would be completely alienated players like me in order to do this.
Edit2: Also you would completely change the value of Nullsec systems. BR5 was huge because it was close to Amarr and Highsec making it easy for HERO to work. With this change entire regions would become useless and the Far reagions would be almost barren. Nullsec is pretty much empty until a Fleet passes though, This would make Nullsec even more barren then it is now.
Not every null fight is a blob. Also, there are multiple roles to play; dictor, links, logi, etc. Also, when you have a Dread alt on standby on your second monitor and you are told to log it in and jump in, you will be glad in that big fight context your main in a Legion *is* being flown by an anchor -- dual boxing is hard yo. But seriously, there is lots of small gang stuff in null, just like blops drops, etc etc.
Secondly, its not just BR-5 the location that drove the fight, just as it wasn't 6-VDT etc.
Quote: Further Editing: If try to force somebody to play the game you think they want to play it isn't going to work. They will quit. I didn't join EVE to be apart of a giant Alliance holding Sov. I never wanted to be like that in this. If you force people by trying to limit their area of play, you will only force them to a different game. You can't make people leave highsec to go to Sov-Space. If this happened, I would try and stay in Highsec, get annoyed, trying Nullsec, Get even further annoyed and then quit. A lot of Highsec players would do that. And if you're trying to save EVE that isn't what you want.
We already lose *atrocious* numbers of new players, per CCP. I assert much of that happens because they see a big null battle on a video or gaming site/magazine, they then join EvE and get mired down in an endless pursuit-of-ISK hamster wheel in hisec, or burn out after endless saving of the damsel.
I propose to change that, while also creating more content in null as critical mass kicks in -- and you don't have *vets* withering on the vine and dying, especially with the lacklustre response of Fozzie SOV in driving content.
EVE (I believe) is at a crossroads, Fozzie SOV was a bold move, but only half-so...CCP needs to go full-****** and get new players funneling into null. I ultimately believe that will generate and save more subs, than those you lose in hisec holdouts quitting in frustration. Sorry, but there it is.
F
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