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Gogela
Freeport Exploration Loosely Affiliated Pirates Alliance
3321
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Posted - 2015.07.29 06:57:20 -
[31] - Quote
yay! Just set a free clone |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2015.07.29 07:11:14 -
[32] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones.
Just why exactly?
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39369
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Posted - 2015.07.29 07:42:52 -
[33] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones.
Just why exactly? Because of the sentence before the one you quoted.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
24
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Posted - 2015.07.29 07:46:38 -
[34] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones.
Just why exactly? Because of the sentence before the one you quoted.
Just noticed this straight after I posted my edited version. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39370
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Posted - 2015.07.29 08:43:09 -
[35] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones.
Just why exactly? Because of the sentence before the one you quoted. Just noticed this straight after I posted my edited version. The answer is still the same. Standings are a part of the game. They add depth to the play and if someone builds good standings, they should gain benefit from that in comparison to someone like me that couldn't care any less about standings.
So if I with my very many negative standings; and another character with good standings go to a relevant Corp's station to install a jump clone, the guy who's actually liked by that Corp deserves some benefit from his good relationship while I don't deserve anything. Cost is a way to achieve that now that standings have been removed.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2015.07.29 09:00:29 -
[36] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Avvy wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones.
Just why exactly? Because of the sentence before the one you quoted. Just noticed this straight after I posted my edited version. The answer is still the same. Standings are a part of the game. They add depth to the play and if someone builds good standings, they should gain benefit from that in comparison to someone like me that couldn't care any less about standings. So if I with my very many negative standings; and another character with good standings go to a relevant Corp's station to install a jump clone, the guy who's actually liked by that Corp deserves some benefit from his good relationship while I don't deserve anything. Cost is a way to achieve that now that standings have been removed.
Ok. so you were talking about isk.
I did consider that myself after reading about a sliding scale from an earlier post of yours.
But the conclusion I came up with, is I don't actually see the point in adding another barrier albeit not much of a barrier.
1) You only need to buy clones once and you never need to replace them unless you yourself destroy them.
2) With PLEX it's not going to be a barrier to anyone that can afford PLEX.
3) It's only going to be a barrier to those that don't have much isk, which typically will be new players that don't buy PLEX.
So I really don't see the point in having jump clones with an isk sliding scale attached to standing.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39378
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Posted - 2015.07.29 09:06:29 -
[37] - Quote
Avvy wrote:
So I really don't see the point in having jump clones with an isk sliding scale attached to standing.
Yeah sure. The great thing about the community is there are very many different opinions on things, none of which are necessarily wrong (some are definitely wrong, but for a lot of issues, there's no wrong opinion).
The only one that is right when it comes to setting mechanics is CCPs.
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Oxide Ammar
208
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Posted - 2015.07.29 09:14:06 -
[38] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Caldari 5 wrote:... what's next? Mission Agents no longer require standings? CCP Seagull has said before (FanFest 2014 I think, but it might have been since), that she would like this to be the case. She doesn't want to restrict content from people and would like to allow even a 1 day old character to access level 4 missions, leaving their ability to complete them up to their ability to work with other players, etc. I actually like the idea myself, but appreciate that some won't. I think there should be some benefit to good standings, similar to the way standings affect sales tax and fees, etc. Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones.
Marauders are content, you want everyone to fly one in day one in EVE ?
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Line Stampen
Noble House
0
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Posted - 2015.07.29 09:44:43 -
[39] - Quote
What's next? Standings for Plex? This is so lame to watch how they dumb down everything in this game.
Buying a new jumpclone for ppl in nulsec is not a problem, and ppl in highsec can do exactly the same thing. Buy the clone at a nulsec station. No standings needed. All you gotta do is fly to that station and dock, buy the clone and head back to where you came from.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2015.07.29 09:54:31 -
[40] - Quote
Line Stampen wrote:What's next? Standings for Plex? This is so lame to watch how they dumb down everything in this game.
Buying a new jumpclone for ppl in nulsec is not a problem, and ppl in highsec can do exactly the same thing. Buy the clone at a nulsec station. No standings needed. All you gotta do is fly to that station and dock, buy the clone and head back to where you came from.
I don't think what's happened to jump clones is dumbing down the game.
Being a sandbox style game, and in the case of jump clones they should never have been attached to standing anyway.
The point of a sandbox is that you can do whatever you like, you can choose which toys to play with in the sandbox.
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon That Escalated Quickly.
1616
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Posted - 2015.07.29 10:54:16 -
[41] - Quote
While it makes life easier its a further dumbing down of the game. I did not ask for easier.
Next on the menu: Faction warfare should be accessable with negative faction standing...go do it...do it NOW.
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:26:46 -
[42] - Quote
Eugene Kerner wrote:While it makes life easier its a further dumbing down of the game. I did not ask for easier.
Next on the menu: Faction warfare should be accessable with negative faction standing...go do it...do it NOW.
Too much fuss about jump clones, at least everyone has access now and you're not forced to do content (missions) to get them. Definitely more sandbox.
Of course there's more fuss about jump clones than there should be because people worry what's next. Like you demonstrated with your FW comment. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39383
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:29:01 -
[43] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Caldari 5 wrote:... what's next? Mission Agents no longer require standings? CCP Seagull has said before (FanFest 2014 I think, but it might have been since), that she would like this to be the case. She doesn't want to restrict content from people and would like to allow even a 1 day old character to access level 4 missions, leaving their ability to complete them up to their ability to work with other players, etc. I actually like the idea myself, but appreciate that some won't. I think there should be some benefit to good standings, similar to the way standings affect sales tax and fees, etc. Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones. Marauders are content, you want everyone to fly one in day one in EVE ? I don't really care what people fly, nor see the relevance of that comment to the discussion.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Oxide Ammar
208
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:45:04 -
[44] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Oxide Ammar wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Caldari 5 wrote:... what's next? Mission Agents no longer require standings? CCP Seagull has said before (FanFest 2014 I think, but it might have been since), that she would like this to be the case. She doesn't want to restrict content from people and would like to allow even a 1 day old character to access level 4 missions, leaving their ability to complete them up to their ability to work with other players, etc. I actually like the idea myself, but appreciate that some won't. I think there should be some benefit to good standings, similar to the way standings affect sales tax and fees, etc. Would be good if there was a sliding cost to jump clones. Marauders are content, you want everyone to fly one in day one in EVE ? I don't really care what people fly, nor see the relevance of that comment to the discussion.
Both takes time to achieve and simply it got negated in single bug ( new feature?). Restrictions (requirements) are a big part of any MMO design it gives longevity to the game, it doesn't have to be grinding painful process like we have but it doesn't have to dump the whole process to achieve jump clones and give it free to everybody there.
Also learn Comprehension skill to level 5...
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39395
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Posted - 2015.07.29 11:58:27 -
[45] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Also learn Comprehension skill to level 5... Yeah sure. I regularly fail at reading comprehension, though perhaps my edit explains a bit more completely why I didn't see the relevance of asking me whether I want everyone to be flying a Marauder.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
265
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Posted - 2015.07.29 12:46:39 -
[46] - Quote
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: WHATS NEXT?!
LOCATOR AGENTS WONT REQUIRE STANDIMGS.
Omg please stop requiring lvl 4 anf lvl 3 location agents to require standing to use locator services
This please. I did the grind, I have access to all locators except for pirate factions and thukker, I would not wish that grind on anyone else and wouldn't mind in the slightest if any new character can do what I can do thanks to a standing plan that took nearly two years. |
Panthe3 Black
The Branded Few Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:20:24 -
[47] - Quote
Ccp is awesome +1 |
Utremi Fasolasi
La Dolce Vita
464
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:33:06 -
[48] - Quote
Posted yesterday by CCP:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/clarification-regarding-jump-clones-standings/ |
Karle Tabot
State War Academy Caldari State
52
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:34:22 -
[49] - Quote
When I read about this "bug", and that there would not be consequences for taking advantage of it, my top priority in game became to train alts for jump clones and get them in a rush. Now I will be able to be more intelligent about it, and plan a bit better.
I certainly understand that some feel this undermines their having built up rep with NPCs. But, they got compensation while building that rep up, they get many other benefits from such rep, and there are really, at least in my opinion, too many benefits for veterans as it is. You want veterans to have benefits, but this game takes it further than the other games I have personal experience with.
And it was not like you could not use one of the corporations providing those benefits, or simply join a corporation, get the jump clones, and then leave.
The big impact of this seems good for the game in my own opinion. It makes life a little easier for new players, it encourages PvP by making jump clones more easily available, and it opens up a lot of game play for many.
No doubt some hate it, and they are entitled to that point of view. But I give CCP a big plus on this, even if, like penicillin, it was completely by accident. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5139
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:35:25 -
[50] - Quote
I don't consider the removal of standing for jump clones a dumbing-down of EVE.
It was a silly barrier that forced PvP-ers to grind NPC missions. |
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Gaellia Bonaventure
EVE University Ivy League
4419
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Posted - 2015.07.29 21:48:11 -
[51] - Quote
I like this decision to have no standings for jump clones... which is why I hate that CCP decided to keep it.
Bring your possibles.
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Zappity
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
2405
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Posted - 2015.07.29 22:29:21 -
[52] - Quote
Good stuff. I hope that the recent dilution of NPC standings requirements are an indication that CCP is reaching the inevitable conclusion that these are an outdated concept which needs to die entirely.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
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Caldari 5
D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F. S.A.S Affirmative.
423
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Posted - 2015.07.30 01:12:09 -
[53] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I don't consider the removal of standing for jump clones a dumbing-down of EVE.
It was a silly barrier that forced PvP-ers to grind NPC missions. It wasn't much of barrier, there were 3 ways to get Jump Clones Previously each required a Form of Standings
From NPCs required standings with the station owner From Player Stations/Outposts required standings/docking rights with the station/outpost owner From another player with a Rorq/Titan fit with a clone vat bay, willing to be in space for you to create and jump to it.
The only one that was effected was the first one, frankly I'd like to see NPCs that set docking rights in the same way that Players preventing low standing Players from docking |
Athryn Bellee
Concordiat Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
52
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Posted - 2015.07.30 02:40:40 -
[54] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote: WHATS NEXT?!
LOCATOR AGENTS WONT REQUIRE STANDIMGS.
Omg please stop requiring lvl 4 anf lvl 3 location agents to require standing to use locator services
This please. I did the grind, I have access to all locators except for pirate factions and thukker, I would not wish that grind on anyone else and wouldn't mind in the slightest if any new character can do what I can do thanks to a standing plan that took nearly two years.
Why would they have any different levels of locator agents then? There are lower level agents that nearly anyone can use just with decent social skills and positive faction standing. Not requiring standing for locator agents would be a serious balance issue. |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
265
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Posted - 2015.07.30 03:15:24 -
[55] - Quote
Athryn Bellee wrote:Why would they have any different levels of locator agents then? There are lower level agents that nearly anyone can use just with decent social skills and positive faction standing. Not requiring standing for locator agents would be a serious balance issue.
I don't see it as a serious issue, locators for everyone! Up the ISK fee, it's comical, I run L4 locators as quickly as I can dock with them and never think about the price. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2015.07.30 05:15:10 -
[56] - Quote
Masao Kurata wrote:Athryn Bellee wrote:Why would they have any different levels of locator agents then? There are lower level agents that nearly anyone can use just with decent social skills and positive faction standing. Not requiring standing for locator agents would be a serious balance issue. I don't see it as a serious issue, locators for everyone! Up the ISK fee, it's comical, I run L4 locators as quickly as I can dock with them and never think about the price.
Think it would be better without locator agents, too easy knowing exactly where your target will be.
Edit:
If people think there is mileage still left in talking about locator agents, maybe a new thread would be advisable. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1357
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Posted - 2015.07.30 05:49:31 -
[57] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I don't consider the removal of standing for jump clones a dumbing-down of EVE.
It was a silly barrier that forced PvP-ers to grind NPC missions.
I like that I don't have to look for specific stations now. My standings are pretty good with a good selection of corps so I had pretty good choice for JCs. but just going to any station with a clone facility that part is nice.
For mission runners having access to JCs is important too, different implant sets, or have clones in different regions to have multiple agents available.
given the number of work arounds to standings (and past a certain point 8.0 standings is an annoyance more than anything else), or making JCs at a player facility. I can only agree that it is a silly barrier.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
25
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Posted - 2015.07.30 06:11:17 -
[58] - Quote
Caldari 5 wrote:The only one that was effected was the first one, frankly I'd like to see NPCs that set docking rights in the same way that Players preventing low standing Players from docking
That would never work, I'd never be able to dock.
Not to mention it would go against the idea of the sandbox. |
joehillbilly
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.07.30 07:31:06 -
[59] - Quote
Eve is a sandbox; except...... I guess no one remembers when everyone went to jita and blew up everything in protest over the implications of aurum.
Standings is a component of interacting with the lore of the game. The rules of lore is that it applies to all equally. By removing this facet of the game, Lore loses it's continuity and therefore it's validity. Might as well remove all faction tie ins in the game. Get rid of faction warfare. Stop the incursions, sleepers, and drifters. Then it will only be the coalitions, alliances and corps. Get rid of hi sec and lo sec (both are tied into lore) and both were changes to the game.
Many decisions that players made were directed by the rules of standings. I chose sisters as it damaged my standings the least against the different major factions. Allowing me to continue to operate throughout eve unhindered by npc navy or pirate pursuit. In retrospect with the new rules, I should have not interacted with the lore of the game, but gone straight to nul. Joined a major alliance. Then I would train to be a fleet pvp cap pilot and f1 my way through everyday. Salvage wrecks for income. Alliance SRP would replace my ships. No risk, no pain and all gain.
I disagree with the removal of standings requirements, as much as i didn't agree with the idea that aurum could be used to acquire skills that took "too long to train".
The common thread to eve was that we all knew that we all had to operate within a system that had a strong history that would facilitate a present and create a future with continuity for all of the players.
Allowing access to this "big step" without any sense of earning it creates an entitlement atmosphere. Bitter Vets are created via this process. Many Bitter vets leave, and discourage those they interact with fo not come to the game because of the perceived and or valid inequities.
To keep the game "real", those changes designed specifically to give low sp/new players many more opportunities than the older player would ever dream of is simply short sighted. The success of eve seems to have been tied to the arduous player learning process and it's related challenges. This struggle reinforces the social aspect of the game. The other great draw to eve.
I do and have supported programs like the magic school bus. It allows old players to facilitate newer players and grow the game as it is.
Changing standings related opportunities will move eve away from the short, middle and long term game; to the today and tomorrow game.
This isn't dumbing down eve, this process of rule changes is simplifying eve so much that it may become boring. Basically, a first person shooter. |
Borascus
646
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Posted - 2015.07.30 07:52:55 -
[60] - Quote
Instant access jump clones will have a profound impact on the consumption of implants, now there will be no risk when chosing your pvp.
In the old system the risk in PvP (excitement) was lowered if you put the time in to run the career agents in all systems (3 sets per faction, with a 2 faction mix), the cosmos missions and some l4's. This would help you obtain a jump clone in hi-sec for the null-sec roam that would only end when you got blown up or ran out of ammo - which is the main obstacle to infiltrating null-sec systems
In the new system you fit +3's and whatever you need for the ship you fly in the potential warzone of hi-sec (r.i.p.) and buy a jump clone for the night you have enough people willing to go out and fight a blob, or when you want to solo roam / skirmish sov systems.
I would expect the new system to remove the risk of implant loss (20hr jump clones meaning a 4 hour roam from the start of your login interval does not affect the following day, provided you log in at the same time on those days) affecting the implant market in the short term until the saved cost of implants raises confidence sufficient to fit the implants on the pvp roam jump clone as you'd already saved the isk flying empty ones.
Get ready to buy up all the implants :)
tl;dr - It was a profound change. |
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