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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1338
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 15:40:57 -
[61] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:but Sansha incursions only in lowsec and nullsec. When did this change happen? It hasn't been announced but the writing is on the wall for the Sansha incurions in highsec. These Drifter ones are significantly harder and feature guaranteed ship loss so no one will run them if both co-exist. They will either have to pay significantly more than the Sansha incursions, which isn't going to happen as CCP thinks incursions already pay too much, or the Sansha ones will be removed from highsec/have their payouts slashed dramatically.
I think politically it would be easier for CCP to just move the Sansha ones to low and null, and make the Drifters highsec only so the whining from incursions runners can be countered with "but we replaced it with exciting new PvE like you have been asking for!".
It's a good solution. CCP can increase risk on highsec incursion runners with a mechanism they can tune as players figure the Drifters out to keep things challenging and less easy-mode farmable as the Sansha ones have been for many years now.
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Oxide Ammar
211
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Posted - 2015.08.12 16:26:47 -
[62] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:but Sansha incursions only in lowsec and nullsec. When did this change happen? It hasn't been announced but the writing is on the wall for the Sansha incurions in highsec. These Drifter ones are significantly harder and feature guaranteed ship loss so no one will run them if both co-exist. They will either have to pay significantly more than the Sansha incursions, which isn't going to happen as CCP thinks incursions already pay too much, or the Sansha ones will be removed from highsec/have their payouts slashed dramatically. I think politically it would be easier for CCP to just move the Sansha ones to low and null, and make the Drifters highsec only so the whining from incursions runners can be countered with "but we replaced it with exciting new PvE like you have been asking for!". It's a good solution. CCP can increase risk on highsec incursion runners with a mechanism they can tune as players figure the Drifters out to keep things challenging and less easy-mode farmable as the Sansha ones have been for many years now.
Did you read the **** you just posted ?
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1338
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Posted - 2015.08.12 16:35:38 -
[63] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:Anthar Thebess wrote:but Sansha incursions only in lowsec and nullsec. When did this change happen? It hasn't been announced but the writing is on the wall for the Sansha incurions in highsec. These Drifter ones are significantly harder and feature guaranteed ship loss so no one will run them if both co-exist. They will either have to pay significantly more than the Sansha incursions, which isn't going to happen as CCP thinks incursions already pay too much, or the Sansha ones will be removed from highsec/have their payouts slashed dramatically. I think politically it would be easier for CCP to just move the Sansha ones to low and null, and make the Drifters highsec only so the whining from incursions runners can be countered with "but we replaced it with exciting new PvE like you have been asking for!". It's a good solution. CCP can increase risk on highsec incursion runners with a mechanism they can tune as players figure the Drifters out to keep things challenging and less easy-mode farmable as the Sansha ones have been for many years now. Did you read the **** you just posted ? Of course, I wrote it. What is your point? |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
6955
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 18:21:11 -
[64] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:So how do Drifter Incursions work then? Teams wait for the token player to show up who will unwittingly take the DD? "Looks like we're going to need another Timmy..."
I wonder if they'll call it the "Kenny".
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2370
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Posted - 2015.08.13 00:09:06 -
[65] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Bunch of drivel
You know a Null Incursion is over 200% more profitable than a high-sec incursion now right? And that's assuming that a 50% larger fleet can't run the incursion sites even faster than a High Incursion fleet. There is no writing on the wall for incursions in High Sec, not unless CCP wants to make it obvious that this is no longer a sandbox, and that Null Sec is the new theme park end game space. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1343
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Posted - 2015.08.13 06:30:44 -
[66] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Bunch of drivel
You know a Null Incursion is over 200% more profitable than a high-sec incursion now right? And that's assuming that a 50% larger fleet can't run the incursion sites even faster than a High Incursion fleet. There is no writing on the wall for incursions in High Sec, not unless CCP wants to make it obvious that this is no longer a sandbox, and that Null Sec is the new theme park end game space. Why do incursion runners get so defensive over the topic of how much they make? Deep down, they must know that something about the risk vs. reward is out of whack.
Look, CCP has already said they think incursion income is too high (2014 CSM Minutes, pg. 125). Therefore, they are very unlikely to raise incursion income significantly overall. Yet, how will the get players to run this new, more dangerous content that has not been min/maxed and features guaranteed ship loss via this Doomsday?
There only option is to re-balance the incursion rewards so that the new content pays much more than the old content. Therefore, CCP will rebalance the payouts so the Drifter incursions provide income similar (or perhaps a little higher to cover ship losses) to the current incursions, and the current Sansha ones will either take a massive hit in income or be removed completely from highsec.
There really is no other option if they want players to run the new content. And since they just spent significant development hours making this content, they will want players to run the new content.
It will be fine though. CCP is not taking your Golden Goose away. The are just replacing it with one that will bite you occasionally. There will be a period of adjustment while players figure out the content, and they will have to factor in loosing a ship from time-to-time in their profit calculations, but highsec end-game PvE content will live on.
Incursions won't be nearly as farmable, especially if CCP keep changing the Drifters to adapt to player tactics as they have so far, but they will again be the moderately challenging PvE group content they were designed to be, instead of the simple, watch-Netflix-while-I-farm-for-a-PLEX content they have been for the last few years. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2371
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 06:51:50 -
[67] - Quote
If you think HQ fleets are simple, go into an incursion, recruit 40 people from the public incursion channel, run HQ sites. Start your timer at the second you start trying to form a fleet. Stop it at the end of the last site. Also include the time to fly from whereever you are right now to the incursion system. Then calculate your actual income at the end of a week.
The fact the Incursion communities make it look easy is because they have spent literally years putting together a well oiled machine and training people in all aspects of incursions, and what to do when ganks occur, how to avoid gankers while moving, and how to be an efficient fleet member.
TLDR: Incursions are not easy, Incursion communities are just good. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2015.08.13 07:12:29 -
[68] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:If you think HQ fleets are simple, go into an incursion, recruit 40 people from the public incursion channel, run HQ sites. Start your timer at the second you start trying to form a fleet. Stop it at the end of the last site. Also include the time to fly from whereever you are right now to the incursion system. Then calculate your actual income at the end of a week.
The fact the Incursion communities make it look easy is because they have spent literally years putting together a well oiled machine and training people in all aspects of incursions, and what to do when ganks occur, how to avoid gankers while moving, and how to be an efficient fleet member.
TLDR: Incursions are not easy, Incursion communities are just good. Oh man you should of seen the stupid things we tried in the early days LOL. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1344
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 07:20:31 -
[69] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:TLDR: Incursions are not easy, Incursion communities are just good. Hey man, tell yourself whatever narrative you need to keep logging in.
Perhaps the incursion community can tell themselves that they are so good, that they forced CCP to make the content harder? It's true in a sense. Whatever you need to protect your egos is fine with me.
Once the Sansha incursions have been replaced by the Drifter ones you will get your chance to show who's really good and actually enjoys running the content, and who is just there to farm using strategies pioneered by others. I would think you would be happy to hear the news that CCP is revamping your main content and giving you a new challenge. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1369
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 07:23:05 -
[70] - Quote
if thats the aim of drifter incursions it sounds good and i can see the use of 5bil machs switched for t2/meta optimised fits
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1344
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Posted - 2015.08.13 07:29:53 -
[71] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:if thats the aim of drifter incursions it sounds good and i can see the use of 5bil machs switched for t2/meta optimised fits Yup. They will be optimized and people will make ISK doing them but at least ships will be destroyed. Since there will actually be risk that your ship will blow up, the fact that you can't use a max-pimp boat because of the doomsday will mean the ISK/h will be kept a little more under control.
And if CCP decides the incursion runners are getting "too good", they can dial up the Drifters like they have been doing since they were introduced.
It's a much better system than the static, and farmable Sansha we have had for too long. I'm glad CCP has finally gotten around to cranking the risk up a bit in highsec after doing it everywhere else. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 07:32:30 -
[72] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:TLDR: Incursions are not easy, Incursion communities are just good. Hey man, tell yourself whatever narrative you need to keep logging in. Perhaps the incursion community can tell themselves that they are so good, that they forced CCP to make the content harder? It's true in a sense. Whatever you need to protect your egos is fine with me. Once the Sansha incursions have been replaced by the Drifter ones you will get your chance to show who's really good and actually enjoys running the content, and who is just there to farm using strategies pioneered by others. I would think you would be happy to hear the news that CCP is revamping your main content and giving you a new challenge. It won't show anything as by the end of the first day people will have it figured out and be farming it.
Even if CCP changed the setup on a near daily basis it'll be figured out very quickly and well farmed before the day is over. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
1022
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Posted - 2015.08.13 08:04:14 -
[73] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:You know a Null Incursion is over 200% more profitable than a high-sec incursion now right?
Kinete Jenius wrote:What really cracks me up is Black Pedro though. People already farm sleeper sites and such while watching netflix.
That is because you guys don't get into your ships to do it less profitable for them and require them to pay attention to what's going on, I suppose. I mean, you are doing things with ISK you make anyway, right?
Kinete Jenius wrote:It won't show anything as by the end of the first day people will have it figured out and be farming it.
Even if CCP changed the setup on a near daily basis it'll be figured out very quickly and well farmed before the day is over.
If it's not farmable than few people will run it and CCP will invest time/effort/money on new content that no one runs.
I'm not sure why you have such a problem with incursions being farmed but not a variety of other sites/locations being farmed. I don't think farmability is the problem. Point is not that CCP should make it impossible to farm but that they will be able to adjust sites as they see fit every time they think it's due without upsetting community too much since the latter are already conditioned to take looses and adapt by very nature of sites. That said, basic mech should remain consistent IMO otherwise players will feel like being cheated and from my experience it's absolutely not fun to play with video game equivalent of "rocks fall, everybody dies" game master.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1344
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Posted - 2015.08.13 08:10:46 -
[74] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Even if CCP changed the setup on a near daily basis it'll be figured out very quickly and well farmed before the day is over.
I'm not sure why you have such a problem with incursions being farmed but not a variety of other sites/locations being farmed. Incursions pay way too much for the little amount for risk and effort they currently requires. That was not always the case, but they have been beaten through optimization. Most, but not all people, run them to simply to make ISK and they are far too easy at that now. Yes, that is because the Incursion community has been good at min/maxing the system, but still they were never intended to be farmed at no risk but rather were suppose to be somewhat challenging group PvE content.
Incursions are especially insidious as a farmable income source as they are risk-free. There is no practical player-driven counter and they provide no additional content to the sandbox. At least someone farming wormhole escalations or ratting in nullsec is risking ships that can serve as targets for other players. Further that risk-free nature attracts players from other spaces who are just looking to farm something for an income depleting the population there.
The new Drifter incursions will be more difficult, and the DD builds some real risk into them. We'll see how CCP tunes them, but I can tell you that the rational for removing the Sansha incursions and replacing them with Drifters is to increase the risk on highsec players (primarily through the new AI and the Doomsday). That does not mean that incursions will not be lucrative. It will just mean that players will lose more ships (stimulating the economy) and will have to pay more attention to these adaptable NPCs.
Fine by me. I have no problem with a group PvE activity in highsec. I just have a problem with one that has little risk and difficulty for the top-tier income like the current ones.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1370
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 08:29:07 -
[75] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:Black Pedro wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:TLDR: Incursions are not easy, Incursion communities are just good. Hey man, tell yourself whatever narrative you need to keep logging in. Perhaps the incursion community can tell themselves that they are so good, that they forced CCP to make the content harder? It's true in a sense. Whatever you need to protect your egos is fine with me. Once the Sansha incursions have been replaced by the Drifter ones you will get your chance to show who's really good and actually enjoys running the content, and who is just there to farm using strategies pioneered by others. I would think you would be happy to hear the news that CCP is revamping your main content and giving you a new challenge. It won't show anything as by the end of the first day people will have it figured out and be farming it. Even if CCP changed the setup on a near daily basis it'll be figured out very quickly and well farmed before the day is over. If it's not farmable than few people will run it and CCP will invest time/effort/money on new content that no one runs. I'm not sure why you have such a problem with incursions being farmed but not a variety of other sites/locations being farmed.
but its more interesting content right? thats what all highsec wants and keep complaining about? interesting and harder pve, farming something isnt hard, but at the end of the day if you dont run them then thats your issue, ccp provided you with what you asked for but you choose not to run them because they are too hard.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1345
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Posted - 2015.08.13 08:42:50 -
[76] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote: It won't show anything as by the end of the first day people will have it figured out and be farming it.
Even if CCP changed the setup on a near daily basis it'll be figured out very quickly and well farmed before the day is over.
If it's not farmable than few people will run it and CCP will invest time/effort/money on new content that no one runs.
I'm not sure why you have such a problem with incursions being farmed but not a variety of other sites/locations being farmed.
but its more interesting content right? thats what all highsec wants and keep complaining about? interesting and harder pve, farming something isnt hard, but at the end of the day if you dont run them then thats your issue, ccp provided you with what you asked for but you choose not to run them because they are too hard. Indeed. Even if people are "farming" by the end of the day at least someone actually had to play the game to figure out the best strategy.
That is in contrast to the current situation where you read a guide once that someone else wrote years ago and repeat for months on end at no risk and with no challenge.
Highsec incursions are about about to get more interesting, dynamic and harder. If players choose not to run them because they are not farmable, it kinda says something about the content in the first place. If you want to farm, at least go to a space where you have to put something on the line.
Time to adapt incursion runners and actually play the game. All those previous optimizations are about to be thrown out the window. |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
59
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 09:00:38 -
[77] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Kinete Jenius wrote:Even if CCP changed the setup on a near daily basis it'll be figured out very quickly and well farmed before the day is over.
I'm not sure why you have such a problem with incursions being farmed but not a variety of other sites/locations being farmed. Incursions pay way too much for the little amount for risk and effort they currently requires. That was not always the case, but they have been beaten through optimization. Most, but not all people, run them to simply to make ISK and they are far too easy at that now. Yes, that is because the Incursion community has been good at min/maxing the system, but still they were never intended to be farmed at no risk but rather were suppose to be somewhat challenging group PvE content. Incursions are especially insidious as a farmable income source as they are risk-free. There is no practical player-driven counter and they provide no additional content to the sandbox. At least someone farming wormhole escalations or ratting in nullsec is risking ships that can serve as targets for other players. Further that risk-free nature attracts players from other spaces who are just looking to farm something for an income depleting the population there. The new Drifter incursions will be more difficult, and the DD builds some real risk into them. We'll see how CCP tunes them, but I can tell you that the rational for removing the Sansha incursions and replacing them with Drifters is to increase the risk on highsec players (primarily through the new AI and the Doomsday). That does not mean that incursions will not be lucrative. It will just mean that players will lose more ships (stimulating the economy) and will have to pay more attention to these adaptable NPCs. Fine by me. I have no problem with a group PvE activity in highsec. I just have a problem with one that has little risk and difficulty for the top-tier income like the current ones. I can make more isk per account per hour doing other activities. I just do incursions because they amuse me currently.
You can at any point provide risk for incursion runners. You refuse to HTFU and take on that burden instead demanding that CCP does the work for you.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1372
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Posted - 2015.08.13 09:15:08 -
[78] - Quote
here we go again...everyone knows fighting 5bil battleship fleets with ample logi isnt really going to happen when concord are watching your back, hense why you dont do them in null and lowsec because you would get smashed and you know it.
what other activities in highsec can you make more isk per account with same risks again?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1345
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Posted - 2015.08.13 09:18:45 -
[79] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:I can make more isk per account per hour doing other activities. I just do incursions because they amuse me currently.
You can at any point provide risk for incursion runners. You refuse to HTFU and take on that burden instead demanding that CCP does the work for you. I cannot. It is not possible for one or a couple players to gank an active incursion group because of the attentive logi. The free protection of highsec scales quite well with numbers so incursion runners are pretty much invincible. I would need several times more players than the incursion group to do it and I do not have the resources.
I had hoped that one day I would be proven wrong and someone would stop the farmers (even the Goons tried but failed), but I won't get the chance as it seems now CCP has killed the incursion farms for us. Can't say I am going to complain though.
I don't see why you are so defensive. If you enjoy the current incursions, I am sure the challenge of the new ones will "amuse" you as well. And if they prove too hard for you, you can just go back to your "other activities" that make you more ISK.
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Oxide Ammar
212
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Posted - 2015.08.13 10:05:53 -
[80] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:here we go again...everyone knows fighting 5bil battleship fleets with ample logi isnt really going to happen when concord are watching your back, hense why you dont do them in null and lowsec because you would get smashed and you know it.
what other activities in highsec can you make more isk per account with same risks again?
Provide me with kill report happened recently of low sec/null sec fleet got totally wiped because of another fleet managed to kill them.
The 5 bill incursion pirate BS is about efficiency not ******* show off, you can work your math to figure out the difference between scrub T1 BS with T2 fit vs Vindi with blue fit. If you can't comprehend what I'm say then keep babbling about risk vs reward stereo typing. Please tell us more about the risk vs. reward in nullsec for the carrier ratters who are aligned to POS somewhere and waiting for neut to enter system and warp away.
Lady Areola Fappington: -áSolo PVP isn't dead!-á You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1373
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Posted - 2015.08.13 10:24:30 -
[81] - Quote
Oxide Ammar wrote:Lan Wang wrote:here we go again...everyone knows fighting 5bil battleship fleets with ample logi isnt really going to happen when concord are watching your back, hense why you dont do them in null and lowsec because you would get smashed and you know it.
what other activities in highsec can you make more isk per account with same risks again? Provide me with kill report happened recently of low sec/null sec fleet got totally wiped because of another fleet managed to kill them. The 5 bill incursion pirate BS is about efficiency not ******* show off, you can work your math to figure out the difference between scrub T1 BS with T2 fit vs Vindi with blue fit. If you can't comprehend what I'm say then keep babbling about risk vs reward stereo typing. Please tell us more about the risk vs. reward in nullsec for the carrier ratters who are aligned to POS somewhere and waiting for neut to enter system and warp away.
well if its such a great thing why dont you do them in lowsec and null, enlighten me why you are so caught up with remaining in highsec to do incursions? oh yeah carriers and ratting supers die all the time in nullsec and lowsec so what you talking about?
you are a hypocrite, if your incursion fleets are so great go do the incursions in low and null, but you wont because you know highsec is safer and you dont need to risk your ships to do them when the payout is not worth the risk. yes risk vs reward is the reason you stay in highsec
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2374
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Posted - 2015.08.13 10:30:43 -
[82] - Quote
Or possibly that most of the incursion community live in high sec. And thus don't do them in low and null because it's hostile space belonging to other corps and alliances.... But that doesn't fit so nicely with your story. Nor does the fact that the communities have built themselves around being inclusive while low and null by their very nature require more closed trusted Corp groups. Or the fact that some of those corps and alliances who live out there actually do do low sec and null incursions. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1375
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Posted - 2015.08.13 10:37:02 -
[83] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Or possibly that most of the incursion community live in high sec. And thus don't do them in low and null because it's hostile space belonging to other corps and alliances.... But that doesn't fit so nicely with your story. Nor does the fact that the communities have built themselves around being inclusive while low and null by their very nature require more closed trusted Corp groups. Or the fact that some of those corps and alliances who live out there actually do do low sec and null incursions.
most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
2374
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Posted - 2015.08.13 10:40:32 -
[84] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote: most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances
Citation required.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1375
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Posted - 2015.08.13 10:45:21 -
[85] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Lan Wang wrote: most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances
Citation required.
you know its true you're just refusing to accept it
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2015.08.14 03:36:12 -
[86] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:I cannot. It is not possible for one or a couple players to gank an active incursion group because of the attentive logi. The free protection of highsec scales quite well with numbers so incursion runners are pretty much invincible. I would need several times more players than the incursion group to do it and I do not have the resources. I had hoped that one day I would be proven wrong and someone would stop the farmers (even the Goons tried but failed), but I won't get the chance as it seems now CCP has killed the incursion farms for us. Can't say I am going to complain though. I don't see why you are so defensive. If you enjoy the current incursions, I am sure the challenge of the new ones will "amuse" you as well. And if they prove too hard for you, you can just go back to your "other activities" that make you more ISK. It is quite possible to gank incursion runners and your lack of imagination or inexperience is working against you.
They "failed" with the pipebomb because they panicked during the lag and turned on then off their smart bombs. if they had just hit the hotkeys once and let things roll it would of went far better. Regardless they still managed to get kills.
Lan Wang wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Lan Wang wrote: most of the incursion community are npc alts from null alliances
Citation required. you know its true you're just refusing to accept it That's a lie.
My citation is the tax rate on NPC corps. Spend 20 minutes and look for yourself at an incursion. One man corps galore. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1554
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 04:01:23 -
[87] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:It hasn't been announced but the writing is on the wall for the Sansha incurions in highsec. These Drifter ones are significantly harder and feature guaranteed ship loss so no one will run them if both co-exist. They will either have to pay significantly more than the Sansha incursions, which isn't going to happen as CCP thinks incursions already pay too much, or the Sansha ones will be removed from highsec/have their payouts slashed dramatically.
I think politically it would be easier for CCP to just move the Sansha ones to low and null, and make the Drifters highsec only so the whining from incursions runners can be countered with "but we replaced it with exciting new PvE like you have been asking for!".
It's a good solution. CCP can increase risk on highsec incursion runners with a mechanism they can tune as players figure the Drifters out to keep things challenging and less easy-mode farmable as the Sansha ones have been for many years now.
The writing is on the wall for a drifter incursion in Amarr space, but as it has existed on sisi the scope doesn't suggest a global highsec swap. Rather just the next phase of this storyline for now.
The feature is actually named "Defense of the Throne worlds" after all.
And from what has been said, no, it's not going to be any politically easier to swap the drifter incursions in. Not if player feedback is any part of that equation.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1358
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Posted - 2015.08.14 06:09:24 -
[88] - Quote
Kinete Jenius wrote:It is quite possible to gank incursion runners and your lack of imagination or inexperience is working against you. It is not. You can mess with them from the inside, or gank them when they move between incursions, But an active incursion with 4B tanked ships covered by attentive logi are invincible, at least to anyone without a hundred players and ten of billions of ISK to throw at the problem (which could still fail anyway due to server limitations). I don't have that.
Anything else are just stories you incursion runners tell yourselves around the campfire to scare each other. Like the boogeyman, they don't exist. You are 100% safe from gankers and the lack of ganks on the killboards proves that statistic.
Tyberius Franklin wrote:]The writing is on the wall for a drifter incursion in Amarr space, but as it has existed on sisi the scope doesn't suggest a global highsec swap. Rather just the next phase of this storyline for now.
The feature is actually named "Defense of the Throne worlds" after all.
And from what has been said, no, it's not going to be any politically easier to swap the drifter incursions in. Not if player feedback is any part of that equation.
Players will not have a choice - they are going to rage anout the loss of their easy ISK no matter what. There is a clear pattern in that almost all changes since CCP Seagull has been in charge have been to increase risk for players (to stimulate loss and the economy) so it makes sense that that train is about to arrive in highsec.
Unless this incursion turns out to be just a one-off that goes for a few weeks, they will replace Sansha in all of highsec. Players will just move out of Domain and ignore them otherwise. I expect though that CCP will want to make sure they are working, so probably both will co-exist for a bit (maybe they'll be in the Throne Worlds for a few weeks/months, and when they spread to all of highsec is when Sansha leaves), but I also wouldn't be surprised if the day this goes on Tranquility is the day after the last Sansha incursion took place in highsec. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1554
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 07:22:22 -
[89] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Players will not have a choice - they are going to rage anout the loss of their easy ISK no matter what. There is a clear pattern in that almost all changes since CCP Seagull has been in charge have been to increase risk for players (to stimulate loss and the economy) so it makes sense that that train is about to arrive in highsec. IF that comes to pass sure, but that doesn't justify the claim of it being politically better. Fundamentally no one has a real choice in CCP's decisions, this is no different. I just responded to the statement you made suggesting drifter incursions would somehow make such a change more widely accepted. (That or misunderstood what "politically better" meant)
Black Pedro wrote:Unless this incursion turns out to be just a one-off that goes for a few weeks, they will replace Sansha in all of highsec. Players will just move out of Domain and ignore them otherwise. I expect though that CCP will want to make sure they are working, so probably both will co-exist for a bit (maybe they'll be in the Throne Worlds for a few weeks/months, and when they spread to all of highsec is when Sansha leaves), but I also wouldn't be surprised if the day this goes on Tranquility is the day after the last Sansha incursion took place in highsec. The first line here seems rather presumptuous. There isn't much reason to believe the events here couldn't be used elsewhere for further story developments or even coexist long term with some for of unique reward. As they are now they are tied to one empire and we really have no idea how things will play out. As it stands this prophecy itself isn't very convincing for any evidence presented in it's favor (of which there is none more than any other theory including single run event).
I'd love to know where the faith comes from for this theory. If it's just the stance you believe they have on incursions it should be noted the most recent thing they did to them was giving a buff.
As far as people moving out of Domain, there was no mandate to stay in any incursion constellation ever, why would that change now? |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1360
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 07:55:56 -
[90] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:IF that comes to pass sure, but that doesn't justify the claim of it being politically better. Fundamentally no one has a real choice in CCP's decisions, this is no different. I just responded to the statement you made suggesting drifter incursions would somehow make such a change more widely accepted. (That or misunderstood what "politically better" meant) I meant that there would be less of an uproar if they just remove the old ones, rather than nerf the payout to the levels that would be necessary to make players choose the Drifter ones over the Sansha ones. It would be politically easier for CCP to claim they are replacing the old, tired incursions with exciting new ones. Then CCP isn't "nerfing" anything, just making them better.
In any case though people are going to whine and complain. It happened when they increased risk in wormholes with the spawning changes, and the change to warpable anomalies. Anytime CCP messes with people's comfortable income source there will be complaints.
Tyberius Franklin wrote: The first line here seems rather presumptuous. There isn't much reason to believe the events here couldn't be used elsewhere for further story developments or even coexist long term with some for of unique reward. As they are now they are tied to one empire and we really have no idea how things will play out. As it stands this prophecy itself isn't very convincing for any evidence presented in it's favor (of which there is none more than any other theory including single run event).
I'd love to know where the faith comes from for this theory. If it's just the stance you believe they have on incursions it should be noted the most recent thing they did to them was giving a buff. It is just simple logic. There is no way an "easy" incursion can live next to a "hard" incursion. If they pay the same, 95% of the people will run the "easy" one. They cannot buff the "hard" payout significantly as incursions already pay a lot (see the CSM minutes I linked above) so the only choice is to reduce the payout for the "old" or remove the "old" completely.
Now it could a one-off event for lore, or provide some unique reward, or CCP could do something completely unexpected with them. I have no inside information. But really, incursions (and all NPC PvE really) are due for a revamp so I doubt CCP would spend the time developing this unless they intended to make them a permanent part of the game. If so, there is no real way for them to keep both incursions, at least if they want these new ones to be run at all.
We'll all find out in time I guess. |
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