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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 07:38:14 -
[1] - Quote
Like really there kinda invulnerable to all EW, cap warfare etc due to them shooting even after being Jammed / sensor disrupted and aggressive drones automatically firing and being able to assign your drones to someone else, the only way to deal with them is the dumb way of destroying the ships. Now you can obviously still turn off the micro's / AB's and other modules with cap warfare and scrams but eh.
Like seriously within the past 2 days there has been 2 times were if something hadn't have been a drone boat I could have killed them all 1 where we had a Falcon, Rapier, Arazu and 2 damage ships against 6 drone boats with Sentries and we just couldn't engage because range control ships and ECM would have done us no good, and it was early in the morning so we couldn't call anyone else out
Then there was another one where there was a Gila running sites in a WH and we only had 2 pilots on-line because it was really late and again if it was a turret/missle ship we could have easily taken it out with a Arazu and a heavy DPS ship with a light tank. But no the only way of fighting them would have been to bring more tanky and higher DPS ships.
Now all the other weapon systems have there up's and downs Lasers don't require you to fill up your cargo hold with Ammo but require a fair bit of cap to shoot, Autocannon don't require cap but the Ammo is quite large, Hybrids require less cap than lasers but the ammo is of a reasonable size, missiles don't require cap and are not effected by tracking disruption but have flight times and can be counters by firewalls and are quite large usually.
Meanwhile drones are not effected by Cap warfare and are effectively invulrable to EW, tracking disruptors, ECM and webs because if you have enough ships to apply there effects to all there drones you might as well have just brought DPS ships and shot them to high hell. I know you have the risk of someone shooting your drones but a lot of these drone boats have increases the amount of HP on drones to the point to where it is much more effective to just shoot the ship.
Now I'm not saying they should be vulnerable to webs / tracking disruption, but at the very least think your drone control range should be effected by damps, and also really I think drones should not be able to auto engage capsuleers because if a falcon for example gets auto engaged by the drones its bye bye Falcon, bye bye and if its a few sets of sentries you can basically kiss any recon goodbye. And also I would like to completely remove assisting drones tbh but the last one would get people really mad. |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4178
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Posted - 2015.07.24 08:01:37 -
[2] - Quote
Have you tried shooting the drones?
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 08:04:54 -
[3] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:Have you tried shooting the drones?
Already tackled that as on most these drone boats there is a bonus to drone hitpoints which makes it more efficient to just destroy the ship and some will be able to hold more drones than they can deploy. Especially when it comes to sentries which have quite a bit of hit-points. |
Adrian Maifeld
Low-Sec Survival Ltd. Boys without pants
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 08:06:40 -
[4] - Quote
As you already pointed out, the major drawback of drones is that you can kill them. And you should! If you focus on the boat, the pilot has more chances to kill you/escape/do something else.
But if you have killed all his drones, he's standing there naked just with his d1ke in his hand.
So good tracking has higher priority than dps, I think. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1320
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Posted - 2015.07.24 08:07:03 -
[5] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:we had a Falcon, Rapier, Arazu
from this post my only recommendation is to buff drone boats
@ChainsawPlankto
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 08:11:23 -
[6] - Quote
Adrian Maifeld wrote:As you already pointed out, the major drawback of drones is that you can kill them. And you should! If you focus on the boat, the pilot has more chances to kill you/escape/do something else.
But if you have killed all his drones, he's standing there naked just with his d1ke in his hand.
So good tracking has higher priority than dps, I think.
To be honest you could just apply what I said to sentries, I don't think you understand how much EHP a sentries drone has after skills / hull bonuses. |
Brutus Utama
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Phoenix Company Alliance
52
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:02:21 -
[7] - Quote
You Can ECM the drones.... or destroy them drone boats without drones are pretty useless.. |
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:05:47 -
[8] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Roxanne Dallas wrote:we had a Falcon, Rapier, Arazu from this post my only recommendation is to buff drone boats
And 2 damage ships I can't remember which once but they would have put out about 700 dps each, anyway I have no idea what you mean except that maybe you don't like EW, then I take from that that you like blob warfare where you overpower any kind of tactics with raw power... And as I said any turret/missle based ships would have lost badly as the Falcon could have almost perma jammed 3 of them the Arazu could have damped 3 of them down to 50km~ lock range and we stay outside 50k while the Arazu point 2 of them and maybe the other 4 warp away but we would have won. |
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:07:52 -
[9] - Quote
Brutus Utama wrote:You Can ECM the drones.... or destroy them drone boats without drones are pretty useless.. Yes you can ECM drones but you would have to spread your ECM out over 5 drones per person which makes it not worth doing and again a Gila has a 500% bonus to drone hitpoint you are talking about taking out 4 mid tanked cruisers rather than 1 heavily tanked cruiser... That is what I would call stupidity.
and all the other decent drone boats have a 20% bonus to drone hitpoints per level and multiple flights of drones so that also makes it stupid to attack the drones, basically the only time it makes sense is when your in a frigate/destroyer and a battleship is sending out light drones. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2198
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:09:22 -
[10] - Quote
The fact the Gila can only run two medium drones at once makes it in some ways much more manageable than other drone boats. If you TD or jam those drones you should be able to severely gimp their damage output. There's still the near BS level tank it has, but that's a whole different can of worms.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Niriel Greez
Specimen 794 Project.Mayhem.
9
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:10:56 -
[11] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote: Then there was another one where there was a Gila running sites in a WH and we only had 2 pilots on-line because it was really late and again if it was a turret/missle ship we could have easily taken it out with a Arazu and a heavy DPS ship with a light tank. But no the only way of fighting them would have been to bring more tanky and higher DPS ships.
You are what is wrong with this game. Unwilling to engage a target that isn't neuted, jammed and scrammed and some logi just in case while also outnumbering the target.
Oh and for what it's worth, recons are significantly more 'OP' than drones. |
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:16:24 -
[12] - Quote
Niriel Greez wrote:Roxanne Dallas wrote: Then there was another one where there was a Gila running sites in a WH and we only had 2 pilots on-line because it was really late and again if it was a turret/missle ship we could have easily taken it out with a Arazu and a heavy DPS ship with a light tank. But no the only way of fighting them would have been to bring more tanky and higher DPS ships.
You are what is wrong with this game. Unwilling to engage a target that isn't neuted, jammed and scrammed and some logi just in case while also outnumbering the target. Oh and for what it's worth, recons are significantly more 'OP' than drones.
Lulz as I said we could have just brought heavy DPS ships, and I was only going to use Damps and long range warp disruption, I don't know where you get the idea that they were goiung to be Jammed nueted scramed and have logi.
If we had more poeple I would have just went in with light and fast stuff and popped him them ran away no need for logi or nuets or anything else. EW is just a force multiplier we could have won just by brining 2 Gila's or 2 basically anything with a decent tank and high DPS but we were in a WH so limited ship choice. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2198
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:19:59 -
[13] - Quote
A Gila outnumbered you? Sooo confused.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:25:23 -
[14] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:A Gila outnumbered you? Sooo confused.
Sorry I thought you were talking about my frist example but I don't know where you get off saying I had to have them scramed neuted jammed with logi when I said we only had 2 pilots on and if we had even 3+ pilots I would have just went in with vaga's so your just wrong and if you outnumber someone so badly that you can scram nuet etc everything on the field you could just more easily take them out with raw damage so no EW is not OP. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1175
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:31:25 -
[15] - Quote
yes kill the drones unless you fighting a rattlesnake....
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:34:18 -
[16] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:yes kill the drones unless you fighting a rattlesnake....
Or Gila or a Pilgim or Curse or Ishkur etc |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2198
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:36:33 -
[17] - Quote
Roxanne Dallas wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:A Gila outnumbered you? Sooo confused. Sorry I thought you were talking about my frist example but I don't know where you get off saying I had to have them scramed neuted jammed with logi when I said we only had 2 pilots on and if we had even 3+ pilots I would have just went in with vaga's so your just wrong and if you outnumber someone so badly that you can scram nuet etc everything on the field you could just more easily take them out with raw damage so no EW is not OP its just that when your outnumbered it is a force multiplier. When a fleet Wambljam's something with logi as backup its just because thats the fleet they had and was meant to be for taking out a larger fleet than them, but they had the opportunity to take out something else... Are you asking fleets who run across a single pilots/ smaller gang not to gank them?
I said no such thing. Thinking there's some conversational crossover going on here.
Different drone boats pose different problems for dealing with. Sentry Ishtars scare me more than Gilas do to be honest. On a fleet level the drone swarm is a daunting thing, no doubt. On a smaller scale they're still challenging, but not unbeatable.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1175
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:36:43 -
[18] - Quote
think there should be an ewar module for drones, not just ecming each drone but a module which targets the ship to affect the drones
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:think there should be an ewar module for drones, not just ecming each drone but a module which targets the ship to affect the drones
Then why not just roll that into existing modules... |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
720
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:39:50 -
[20] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:think there should be an ewar module for drones, not just ecming each drone but a module which targets the ship to affect the drones
It's called ecm*.
*Only works when drones are not in space already.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:40:53 -
[21] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Roxanne Dallas wrote:Omar Alharazaad wrote:A Gila outnumbered you? Sooo confused. Sorry I thought you were talking about my frist example but I don't know where you get off saying I had to have them scramed neuted jammed with logi when I said we only had 2 pilots on and if we had even 3+ pilots I would have just went in with vaga's so your just wrong and if you outnumber someone so badly that you can scram nuet etc everything on the field you could just more easily take them out with raw damage so no EW is not OP its just that when your outnumbered it is a force multiplier. When a fleet Wambljam's something with logi as backup its just because thats the fleet they had and was meant to be for taking out a larger fleet than them, but they had the opportunity to take out something else... Are you asking fleets who run across a single pilots/ smaller gang not to gank them? I said no such thing. Thinking there's some conversational crossover going on here. Different drone boats pose different problems for dealing with. Sentry Ishtars scare me more than Gilas do to be honest. On a fleet level the drone swarm is a daunting thing, no doubt. On a smaller scale they're still challenging, but not unbeatable.
I wasn't saying there unbeatable with even 1 person but to take on a passively tanked Gila you would need to up ship it significantly in a turret based ship. |
Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1175
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:43:37 -
[22] - Quote
to be fair i lost my gila in a thunderdome match against a phantasm, it seemed like such an easy kill for him
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
37
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:49:57 -
[23] - Quote
I couldn't kill a drone boat because I didn't bring the right tools for the job and I couldn't come up with any tactics to beat it.
CCP should change it so I can turn up with my friends and kill every ship in the game, even if I picked the wrong ship/ship fit. But they have to make me the only one that can do it because everyone will be doing it, and then I would have to come to the forum and complain that there was someone I couldn't beat. |
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:51:46 -
[24] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:to be fair i lost my gila in a thunderdome match against a phantasm, it seemed like such an easy kill for him
Sorry when I say passively tanked I mean passive recharge, not buffer or booster fit because all you need to take down a booster fit is a little neuting power or if its buffer you can just dps it in a roughly equal ship. |
Boudacca Sangrere
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
62
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:52:19 -
[25] - Quote
I think the MAIN problem of the OP is the cardinal sin of EvE - Failure to Adapt. Your Arazu, etc. work great against turreted or missile ship, but not so much against a drone boat (and I think poor tactics may be to blame here too), well ADAPT!!! Fly more heavy dps, rather than a falcon... Gilas melt just like other ships. Fly (gasp) a drone boat yourself. Don't be frigging lazy and complain that the round hole is overpowered if you are trying to fit a square peg into it. But yes, it is sooo much easier to whine than to figure out how to deal with it.
B. |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2198
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:52:20 -
[26] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:to be fair i lost my gila in a thunderdome match against a phantasm, it seemed like such an easy kill for him
I was hoping Tengu would bring a Gila for our match. I derped and learned the hard way how mean the Ashimmu could be. It's too bad, I really liked that Curse.
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1176
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:56:40 -
[27] - Quote
Omar Alharazaad wrote:Lan Wang wrote:to be fair i lost my gila in a thunderdome match against a phantasm, it seemed like such an easy kill for him I was hoping Tengu would bring a Gila for our match. I derped and learned the hard way how mean the Ashimmu could be. It's too bad, I really liked that Curse.
yeah i thought im gonna bring a gila because they op and ill win everything, yeah that didnt work out too well against a super speed kiting phantasm, problem with the gila is the amount of drones, they are slow and can only launch 2 so you can kill them easy enough, ishtars on the other hand have a massive amount of drones. i guess what im saying here is, its not what you fly its how you fly it.
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 09:57:19 -
[28] - Quote
Yossarian Toralen wrote:I couldn't kill a drone boat because I didn't bring the right tools for the job and I couldn't come up with any tactics to beat it.
CCP should change it so I can turn up with my friends and kill every ship in the game, even if I picked the wrong ship/ship fit. But they have to make me the only one that can do it because everyone will be doing it, and then I would have to come to the forum and complain that there was someone I couldn't beat.
No I'm saying that drone boats being resistant to all E-WAR is ridiculous because unlike every other type of ship "excluding capitals" there is no effective E-war / non shooting counter, which is silly.
f*** it if they made a specialized ship for it I would have added it at the beginning. |
Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
953
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Posted - 2015.07.24 10:03:04 -
[29] - Quote
Boudacca Sangrere wrote:I think the MAIN problem of the OP is the cardinal sin of EvE - Failure to Adapt. Your Arazu, etc. work great against turreted or missile ship, but not so much against a drone boat (and I think poor tactics may be to blame here too), well ADAPT!!! Fly more heavy dps, rather than a falcon... Gilas melt just like other ships. Fly (gasp) a drone boat yourself. Don't be frigging lazy and complain that the round hole is overpowered if you are trying to fit a square peg into it. But yes, it is sooo much easier to whine than to figure out how to deal with it.
B. "It's not OP, you can fly one yourself!"
I mean, I know that wasn't the gist of your post, but you had to say it anyway.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2015.07.24 10:05:42 -
[30] - Quote
Boudacca Sangrere wrote:I think the MAIN problem of the OP is the cardinal sin of EvE - Failure to Adapt. Your Arazu, etc. work great against turreted or missile ship, but not so much against a drone boat (and I think poor tactics may be to blame here too), well ADAPT!!! Fly more heavy dps, rather than a falcon... Gilas melt just like other ships. Fly (gasp) a drone boat yourself. Don't be frigging lazy and complain that the round hole is overpowered if you are trying to fit a square peg into it. But yes, it is sooo much easier to whine than to figure out how to deal with it.
B.
You know drones originally never designed to be a main weapon system, and this is one of the results of that thats basically why there are no non pew pew counters etc. So yeah they need to change the system to reflect that yes drones are now a main weapon system which needs a counter. |
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