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Kane Le'trole
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.07.25 06:21:39 -
[1] - Quote
What would you guys recommend?
I was thinking a frigate, but if more expensive stuff is better, it would give me something to aim for. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1066
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Posted - 2015.07.25 06:24:54 -
[2] - Quote
Kane Le'trole wrote:What would you guys recommend?
I was thinking a frigate, but if more expensive stuff is better, it would give me something to aim for. Can you be a bit more specific? Fast, sub-light and/or warp? What do you mean with long-range? Max cargo hold? Do you want to travel in lower sec? What's the profession you want to accomplish with the ship?
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Kane Le'trole
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2015.07.25 06:33:08 -
[3] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Kane Le'trole wrote:What would you guys recommend?
I was thinking a frigate, but if more expensive stuff is better, it would give me something to aim for. Can you be a bit more specific? Fast, sub-light and/or warp? What do you mean with long-range? Max cargo hold? Do you want to travel in lower sec? What's the profession you want to accomplish with the ship? Long-range guns, and I want it to be fast without warp. I want to follow some missions for a while before I get into PVP. I don't care much about cargo hold just yet. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1066
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:06:09 -
[4] - Quote
What missions are you looking for?
The long range weapons are railguns, beam lasers, artillery, missiles and don't forget the drones. The hull you choose determines the optimal weapon system (look for the bonus). For L1 missions I would recommend something with missiles (e.g. Kestrel) or drones (e.g. Tristan). L2 is best with destroyer, L3 requires a battlecruiser, and L4 is done with battleships. For missions, ships with bonus to missiles, drones, and artillery are superior because you can choose the damage type freely and adjust to the rats' weakness.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Ahed Sten
67
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:07:21 -
[5] - Quote
It's still really unclear what you want to do with this ship, and you need to elaborate more.
How "long range" is long enough?
Garmur has the longest range (AFAIK) weapons of any of the frigates in the game. It's also one of the fastest. Any of the Stealth Bombers with Jav torps would be another option, but they're slow.
But neither of these two ships are recommended for missions, except for maybe doing FW missions in a Bomber.
Typically, the "long range" frigates project out to about 20km or so, with a few going further, such as the Slicer.
Again, most of these ships are incapable of anything but the easiest missions.
I suggest you re-evaluate the practicality of your request, and/or give us some better information to work with. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1340
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:18:40 -
[6] - Quote
to get started I'd probably say go for a destroyer. there are a few frigs that can go faster, not sure on the range. Navy slicer is a good choice for long range high speed.
some goals the machariel, can do like 2k/s and get 40+100 with arty. the oracle, goes a similar speed, and hits out to about 70km with pulse, or longer with tachs. but is a bit more of a glass cannon
hard to say more without detail.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11472
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Posted - 2015.07.25 07:55:15 -
[7] - Quote
I assume you want to kite on grid out of tackle range with a Minmatar ship? How do you like the Breacher?
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Deck Cadelanne
175
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Posted - 2015.07.25 09:35:54 -
[8] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:to get started I'd probably say go for a destroyer. there are a few frigs that can go faster, not sure on the range. Navy slicer is a good choice for long range high speed.
some goals the machariel, can do like 2k/s and get 40+100 with arty. the oracle, goes a similar speed, and hits out to about 70km with pulse, or longer with tachs. but is a bit more of a glass cannon
hard to say more without detail.
^^ I think Chainsaw gets it in one here, it sounds like a destroyer is indeed the best fit for your stated intent.
Sounds like you want to build a kiting ship (speed + long range weapons = kite).
There are many that fit the bill. Arty Thrashers, rail Catalysts come to mind straight away.
There are some very good frigate kite fits, some of them can be expensive - rail Daredevils, LML Garmurs. Probably OTT for what you need to do what you want to do at this stage.
When you are ready to "ship up" to a cruiser, an arty fit Stabber can be a good entry level setup for kiting. Then you can skill up into Vagabonds.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
60
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Posted - 2015.07.25 10:42:45 -
[9] - Quote
For something fast and inexpensive with long range that you can reasonably skill into within a month I would look at the Bellicose. Range using heavy missiles is around 40Km with level 3 skills and you can easily get similar range with drones. Speed is around 625m/s with afterburner - should be easy to get cap stable. MWD boost that to 1600m/s but will require careful cap management. You should be able to achieve around 160 dps with 25K ehp. My market ALTS use these to fly the SOE Epic arc to build faction standing and these characters do not have a lot of combat SP.
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Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1247
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Posted - 2015.07.25 10:51:19 -
[10] - Quote
ship is a tool to fit the job.
Figure out what you want to do and the ship will come naturally. |
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
670
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Posted - 2015.07.25 13:37:04 -
[11] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:ship is a tool to fit the job.
Figure out what you want to do and the ship will come naturally.
Just to elaborate:
you don't go and buy a hammer and go "COOL, now what should i do???"
You decide you want to nail something in and THEN buy the hammer What Tsukino says here is pretty much what I wanted to say only worded better than what I was going to post.
I see a lot of new players that come in here and ask questions similar to this and they are all misguided. I don't want to tell you how to play your game but I know enough about this game to know that if I answered the question the way that you asked it I'd not be helping you out at all.
Like others have said a ship is a disposable tool to get a job done. A tool that fits not only the job at hand but your particular play style. If you don't know what you want to do or how you would like to do it that's fine as a matter of fact that's great because you get to play around with all different kinds of stuff to figure that out.
The best thing that I can recommend to you is to try out different things and different ship. Having options open to you is usually better than focusing on one ship. I would say skill up all four races frigate skill to 3 and get the associated weapon skills up to about the same. Then go out and do some missions or maybe some ratting to get a feel for fitting and combat basics. Then maybe try ratting in low sec or just go into low sec looking for a fight. Eventually you'll figure out what you want to do and how you want to do it.
The above being said tech 3 destroyers have different modes so while you can not be both fast and long range at the same time you can switch between speed mode and sniper mode pretty quickly so that might be a medium term goal for you to set. However I want to stress how bad of an idea that I think setting a specific ship as a goal is. You should be focusing on getting well rounded. |
Prastigus
Unbrella
0
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Posted - 2015.07.28 19:44:12 -
[12] - Quote
Cerberus, run a mwd and micro jump |
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
1704
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Posted - 2015.07.29 02:39:38 -
[13] - Quote
Prastigus wrote:Cerberus, run a mwd and micro jump MJD on a HAC?
Who put the goat in there?
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Hasikan Miallok
Republic University Minmatar Republic
1447
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Posted - 2015.08.25 05:58:40 -
[14] - Quote
Ahed Sten wrote:
Garmur has the longest range (AFAIK) weapons of any of the frigates in the game. .
nope .. double speed but half flight time means same range as everything else. Just less wait between launch and hit.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1475
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Posted - 2015.08.25 07:33:50 -
[15] - Quote
Hasikan Miallok wrote:Ahed Sten wrote:
Garmur has the longest range (AFAIK) weapons of any of the frigates in the game. .
nope .. double speed but half flight time means same range as everything else. Just less wait between launch and hit.
200% bonus on top of base speed, so 5625m/s (light missile speed with max skills and no bonus) + 11,250m/s (200% of 5,625) = 16,875m/s
turns out to be a decent range bonus as well. Similar to the range bonus on the kestrel for example.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Bitevni Shalina
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.08.25 08:12:14 -
[16] - Quote
Not long ago it was possible to kite drifter battleship with cerberus at 3.5 km/s. Now drifter shot you even at that range (212 km) but it is still a good illustration of what fast and long range ship can do: solo drifter kill |
Emperor Furiosa
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2015.08.25 21:14:17 -
[17] - Quote
I think OP is looking for Svipul. |
Wombat65Au Egdald
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2015.08.26 08:38:23 -
[18] - Quote
Just a couple of notes. Long range gun type weapons have problems shooting at small fast targets that get close to your ship, so you either need to be able to keep those targets at a distance so your guns can aim properly (kite the target ships), or you need a second weapon system that can deal with targets that get very close to you, eg: carry some scout drones.
If you are going to be doing a lot of missions to earn ISK for bigger ships, some mission "pirates" will web you which will interfere with your ability to kite them, and webbers are short range systems. This may not be a problem in Level 1 missions where you are using small artillery on a frigate or destroyer, fit a webber of your own and web ships that web you to give your artillery a better chance to keep their aim. You can improve things a bit more in this situation by using ammunition that has bonuses for tracking (eg: Titanium Sabot or Depleted Uranium).
On the other hand a cruiser with medium artillery can reach out and touch another ship at 40+km range (without using range bonused ammunition), but even with your own webber to web any ship that webs you, medium artillery can struggle to hit any ship that has gotten close enough to you to be webbed. Some scout drones can save your ship in a situation like this, so save some room in your training queue for some combat drone skills.
An alternative is to use missiles instead of guns. Missiles can hit targets at any range your ship can lock-on to those targets (assuming your missile skills which affect missile flight range are at an appropriate level for the type of ship and the type of missiles you are using). The most obvious down side of missiles compared to guns is that when guns fire, the damage to the target happens immediately (assuming the guns don't miss). With missiles, they need time to fly to the target before any damage happens. Missile DPS can feel much slower compared to gun DPS because of this.
While the Caldari ships are the premier missile ships, Minmatar also has some ships bonused for missiles as well.
I'm not saying missiles are better than artillery if you want to fight at long range and kite, but missiles don't have the same type of problem with targets at close range that artillery has, especially once you're in a cruiser/battlecruiser with medium artillery. An artillery + drones combo certainly works, I have a mission fit battlecruiser set up this way, but you need to train up skills in multiple weapon systems and during each fight you need to manage those different weapon systems side by side to make it work. Missiles can help you avoid that extra layer of complexity. |
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation Holy Arumbian Empire
1966
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Posted - 2015.08.26 20:12:34 -
[19] - Quote
I'm going to ignore the pve section of your post, as speed really isn't a factor when doing missions except to pick up loot.
Pvp what you are looking for is either a nano kiting or sniping ship. These exist at almost every sub-capital size category. Nano kiting ships rely primarily on their own speed to dictate range, often fighting near the edge of or outside of warp disruptor range, and zooming back in to land a point when the opponent attempts to disengage. I'll list some ship options below.
T1 Frigates: Tristan Light Missile Condor.
Faction Frigates (navy and pirate): Hookbill, Slicer (either pulse or beam), Artillery Firetail (usually a scram kiter, but can change ammo for longer range), Light Missile Gamur
T1 Destroyer, in general these are much slower than frigates with a ton more firepower.: Light Missile Corax Light Missile Talwar Artillery Thrasher Algos
T3 Destroyers: All depending on fit
T1 Cruisers - Slower than frigates, faster than destroyers, better firepower and tank, worse damage application. Autocannon Stabber - The falloff bonus means this ship projects to a significant range Beam Omen - Bad tracking Rapid Light Missile Caracal
Navy Faction Cruisers: Omen Navy Issue - Even with pulse lasers, this ship pushes damage to 40km, and can out run some frigates. Rapid Light Missile Scythe Fleet Issue - Faster Caracal Vexor Navy Issue - Slower than most of the other options here, oversize afterburner fits can often escape from brawling situations and move out to kite range after killing off tackle.
Pirate faction cruisers: Autocannon Cynabal - Basically a better stabber. It pilots like a giant frigate with 40km falloff. Rapid Light Missile Orthus - The true king of kite ships, it kills anything that can catch it, and outruns from anything that can kill it.
Attack Battlecruisers: Autocannon Tornado Pulse Oracle
I've completely skipped the t2 lineup for kiters, mainly because they're flown more as doctrine ships and are usually slower and tankier. There are still some excellent T2 kiters. The vagabond comes to mind as a super tanky cynabal. As for sniping ships, they rely less on range and more on high alpha combined with super long ranges to kill their targets. These are most effective in groups, and their overall speed is lower. Frigates: Rail Harpy
Destroyers: Rail Comorant Arty Thrasher Arty Svipul Beam Confessor
Cruisers: Eagle
Attack Battlecruisers Rail Naga Arty Tornado Beam Oracle
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