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Will Gauss
TerminalDogma New Eden Research Coalition
31
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Posted - 2015.07.25 21:31:25 -
[1] - Quote
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Today at a speech in public space, Matshi Raish arrived representing the Society of Conscious Thought in a Gnosis vessel. Jamyl Sarum I was present in public space in an Avatar class titan. Mentor Raish engaged in scanning activities on the Empress' Avatar, an action which is completely lawful. Sarum attempted to order Raish to cease the scan, and Raish cited as justification the right to investigate existential threats to the cluster. The implication is that the Society of Conscious Thought, and by extension the Jove Directorate believes either Jamyl Sarum or her Avatar class titan is an existential threat to the cluster. Sarum, following Raish confirming he was done and would be leaving, chose to order Raish murdered anyway. This lawless behavior indicates Sarum is not as she seems.
Given the benevolence shown by the Directorate in the past, New Eden Research coalition aligns its statements with those of SoCT and the Directorate in considering Jamyl Sarum and anyone who takes her orders an existential threat to the cluster. |
Equ1n0x
TerminalDogma New Eden Research Coalition
2
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Posted - 2015.07.25 21:37:55 -
[2] - Quote
Any uncertainty about the claims ought be discarded after the Empress' reckless actions today.
If anything, her onslaught against a peaceful SoCT inquirer only affirms that an investigation under the ninth codicil is not only warranted but necessary to ensure stability. |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
7354
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Posted - 2015.07.25 21:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
With due respect, the Society can only represent itself. We have heard nothing from any representative of the Directorate for some years, and so cannot presume that a non-Jove member of the Society speaks for the Jove.
What's more, at present we do not know if the Elder Mentor Raish was acting independently or on behalf of the Society.
Still, the downing of a Society vessel who had not aggressed the Imperial task force is a cause for serious concern.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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Lucas Raholan
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
187
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Posted - 2015.07.25 22:29:17 -
[4] - Quote
The Actions carried out by the Empress were well within Imperial law, the SOCT committed a prohibited assault on the Empress and was swiftly removed for their transgression, I'm sure if I flew up to President Roden and started trying to mindlink with his ships systems the Black Eagles would promptly blast me out of space as well.
Those who insinuate that The empress is the side of wrong in this as far as I'm concerned is a enemy of the Empire
Shitposts so bad CONCORD gave me a 50 billion ISK bounty
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Auris Black
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
3
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Posted - 2015.07.26 00:57:19 -
[5] - Quote
Lucas Raholan wrote:
Those who insinuate that The empress is the side of wrong in this as far as I'm concerned is a enemy of the Empire
Then bring your ship around loyalist I for one will await the Report from the SoCT. If a threat was found then it is the duty of every member of the cluster to remove it no matter the position or Former importance of that threat. Leaders Can and will be replaced. The Drifters are coming, the wheels of the empires demise are turning, will you be crushed underneath capsuleer? |
Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
7716
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Posted - 2015.07.26 01:10:37 -
[6] - Quote
So, is it hip to call Jamyl a zombie again? Or are we still ignoring that thing about how she's supposed to be dead so we can claim a 'miracle' happened?
Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5448
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Posted - 2015.07.26 01:52:55 -
[7] - Quote
Lucas Raholan wrote:the SOCT committed a prohibited assault on the Empress Scanning is not an assault prohibited by any CONCORD codicil, else any person using a cargo scanner would trigger a DED response. At the time Raish was shot, he had communicated compliance with the holdoff order and was in the process of retreating.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Michael Pawlicki
Aliastra Gallente Federation
26
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Posted - 2015.07.26 01:55:46 -
[8] - Quote
Lucas Raholan wrote:The Actions carried out by the Empress were well within Imperial law, the SOCT committed a prohibited assault on the Empress and was swiftly removed for their transgression, I'm sure if I flew up to President Roden and started trying to mindlink with his ships systems the Black Eagles would promptly blast me out of space as well.
Those who insinuate that The empress is the side of wrong in this as far as I'm concerned is a enemy of the Empire
Even not being of Amarrian heritage I hold a great deal of respect for Her Highness, but if Methias was invoking the Ninth Codicie, I think that we should be VERY wary of the Empress, for all our sakes. I am incredibly conflicted as I write this. Something is afoot, but the last thing I want to do is make yest another Empire my enemy on accusation alone. |
Sinjin Mokk
Royal Khanid Colonial Exploration
316
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Posted - 2015.07.26 02:01:45 -
[9] - Quote
Will Gauss wrote:FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Today at a speech in public space, Matshi Raish arrived representing the Society of Conscious Thought in a Gnosis vessel. Jamyl Sarum I was present in public space in an Avatar class titan. Mentor Raish engaged in scanning activities on the Empress' Avatar, an action which is completely lawful. Sarum attempted to order Raish to cease the scan, and Raish cited as justification the right to investigate existential threats to the cluster. The implication is that the Society of Conscious Thought, and by extension the Jove Directorate believes either Jamyl Sarum or her Avatar class titan is an existential threat to the cluster. Sarum, following Raish confirming he was done and would be leaving, chose to order Raish murdered anyway. This lawless behavior indicates Sarum is not as she seems.
Given the benevolence shown by the Directorate in the past, New Eden Research coalition aligns its statements with those of SoCT and the Directorate in considering Jamyl Sarum and anyone who takes her orders an existential threat to the cluster.
The Empress of Amarr does not owe you an explanation. Take it up with CONCORD.
Dark Amarr: Rumors!
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
559
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Posted - 2015.07.26 02:11:17 -
[10] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:The Empress of Amarr does not owe you an explanation.
Sure she does. She owes me a cup of coffee, too. That's my going rate for getting blown up at public ceremonies: a cup of coffee and an explanation on why some other guy was executed.
I don't have any illusions that I'll get either, but you know, since I do have a standing fee for this sort of thing, I've sent off a copy of my billing invoice to her. |
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Lord Kailethre
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
187
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Posted - 2015.07.26 02:39:16 -
[11] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Sinjin Mokk wrote:The Empress of Amarr does not owe you an explanation. Sure she does. She owes me a cup of coffee, too. That's my going rate for getting blown up at public ceremonies: a cup of coffee and an explanation on why some other guy was executed. I don't have any illusions that I'll get either, but you know, since I do have a standing fee for this sort of thing, I've sent off a copy of my billing invoice to her.
I'd give you the coffee, but it'd probably synthetic. And no one likes synthetic coffee. |
Claudia Osyn
Minmatar Confederate Ushra'Khan
1364
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Posted - 2015.07.26 03:13:36 -
[12] - Quote
As long as this doesn't mean that I have to explain myself every time I shoot someone, I'm all for the inquiry.....
A little trust goes a long way. The less you use, the further you'll go.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
564
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Posted - 2015.07.26 03:19:53 -
[13] - Quote
Claudia Osyn wrote:As long as this doesn't mean that I have to explain myself every time I shoot someone, I'm all for the inquiry.....
I could be negotiated down to just buying me the cuppa. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2031
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Posted - 2015.07.26 09:36:08 -
[14] - Quote
The SoCT may well claim that a single titan is an existential threat to the cluster, but I think that it's far more likely that they simply consider it an existential threat to them.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Rivr Luzade
Exclusion Cartel The Kadeshi
1687
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Posted - 2015.07.26 09:42:59 -
[15] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Scanning is not an assault prohibited by any CONCORD codicil, else any person using a cargo scanner would trigger a DED response. At the time Raish was shot, he had communicated compliance with the holdoff order and was in the process of retreating. He used an Entosis Link on her ship, which, by definition, is a module designed to infiltrate, compromise and sabotage systems to gain control over them or the entire object. This is in absolutely no way comparable to traditional scanning modules such as cargo or ship scanners. Any comparison of the EL to these modules is naive. He had never communicated compliance with the request to cease and desist, nor has he ever shown any sign of moving to the requested distance from the titan. He only stopped linking the ship after he "learned what they wanted to learn". Even after that, he was not retreating, but idling around in relative proximity to the titan and fleet.
Station Tab :: UI Improvement Collective
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1231
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Posted - 2015.07.26 10:08:15 -
[16] - Quote
As far as I know, entosis modules do not hold any effect on capsuleer ships. |
Borascus
637
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Posted - 2015.07.26 13:59:18 -
[17] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:So, is it hip to call Jamyl a zombie again? Or are we still ignoring that thing about how she's supposed to be dead so we can claim a 'miracle' happened?
For me, the issue is simple; the Amarrians have a rite of passage each Emperor has to take part in, the succession trials.
The fact that Jamyl died is not the stumbling block for me, it's Jamyl's lengthy, and unexplained absence from God's domain that unhinges the miraculous return.
We have seen, time and time again, attempts to modify CONCORD Pilot Licences. Arek'Jaalan's Site One : Antiquus was subject to attempts of criminal damage by pilots flying ships they had not been in possession of a pilot's licence long enough to operate.
I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2037
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Posted - 2015.07.26 15:05:17 -
[18] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:As far as I know, entosis modules do not hold any effect on capsuleer ships.
As far as you know...
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2037
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Posted - 2015.07.26 15:06:49 -
[19] - Quote
Borascus wrote: I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will.
God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Borascus
638
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Posted - 2015.07.26 15:20:29 -
[20] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Borascus wrote: I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will.
God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind.
The only reason I put this forward, with the utmost respect to you held within me Rodj Blake, is due to the Amarrian oversight in regards to finding out where The Empress was during those years. 'God: Reloaded' is a hard concept for me to grasp, although your faith is admirable.
Luckily, I have not been left in a state of such uncertainty, allowing me to understand that my time is once only. Should I fail completely in that time it is up to my successors to reform in an effort to stick to the path our forebearers set out for us. I do not have such a weighty burden as leading the Amarr Empire, though.
I wouldn't be expectant of my successors to become God when their choice becomes manifest reality. |
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
584
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Posted - 2015.07.26 15:26:24 -
[21] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind.
A fact far too many hardliners of your religion seem to forget, far too often. |
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2038
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 15:27:17 -
[22] - Quote
Borascus wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:Borascus wrote: I'm also surprised a failure in the succession trials is good enough for the (albeit mighty) Amarr Empire, given their demands for sacred flesh. How can it be that a failure in the succession trials is still considered sacred. Jamyl failed the succession trial. Originally,that was God's will.
God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. The only reason I put this forward, with the utmost respect to you held within me Rodj Blake, is due to the Amarrian oversight in regards to finding out where The Empress was during those years. 'God: Reloaded' is a hard concept for me to grasp, although your faith is admirable. Luckily, I have not been left in a state of such uncertainty, allowing me to understand that my time is once only. Should I fail completely in that time it is up to my successors to reform in an effort to stick to the path our forebearers set out for us. I do not have such a weighty burden as leading the Amarr Empire, though. I wouldn't be expectant of my successors to become God when their choice becomes manifest reality.
There was no such oversight.
Just because you don't know the means by which the Empress returned, it does not automatically follow that the Theology Council and the Privy Council don't know.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Saede Riordan
Alexylva Paradox Low-Class
7722
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Posted - 2015.07.26 15:46:05 -
[23] - Quote
Oh well as long as the Theology Council and Privy Council know, then its clearly a miracle and evidence of God's divine will. There's definity nothing shady about that at all. Break the godflesh doctrine to ensure your chosen heir ended up on the throne? No, no, they definitely wouldn't do anything of the sort.
Fear and Loathing in Internet Spaceships
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
584
|
Posted - 2015.07.26 16:03:10 -
[24] - Quote
Saede Riordan wrote:Oh well as long as the Theology Council and Privy Council know, then its clearly a miracle and evidence of God's divine will. There's definity nothing shady about that at all. Break the godflesh doctrine to ensure your chosen heir ended up on the throne? No, no, they definitely wouldn't do anything of the sort.
C'mon, credit them with some dignity and restraint here... clearly, they'd use a biosculpted double during the combat trials so that whoever killed themselves wasn't really Jamyl Sarum! |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5455
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Posted - 2015.07.26 16:20:25 -
[25] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. And you can't be infallible with it.
Rodj Blake wrote:[There was no such oversight.
Just because you don't know the means by which the Empress returned, it does not automatically follow that the Theology Council and the Privy Council don't know. What if they don't know, Blake? What if she is just a clone? Would you dine on the innumerable words you've spoken in her defence and admit she's a fraud who duped you?
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2049
|
Posted - 2015.07.27 06:17:22 -
[26] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. And you can't be infallible with it.
Actually, it is possible for an omnipotent god to be infallible whilst changing their mind.
Quote:Rodj Blake wrote:[There was no such oversight.
Just because you don't know the means by which the Empress returned, it does not automatically follow that the Theology Council and the Privy Council don't know. What if they don't know, Blake? What if she is just a clone? Would you dine on the innumerable words you've spoken in her defence and admit she's a fraud who duped you?
If they didn't know, they wouldn't have acted as they did. If there was any doubt about at all about the Empress' legitimacy then the Speakers would have been called in by now.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
608
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Posted - 2015.07.27 06:48:08 -
[27] - Quote
Rodj Blake wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote:Rodj Blake wrote:God is omnipotent. You can't be omnipotent without the ability to change your mind. And you can't be infallible with it. Actually, it is possible for an omnipotent god to be infallible whilst changing their mind.
Much as I don't want to, I have to agree with this. An omnipotent being would be able to remain infallible while changing their mind. If you're watching a holo, and halfway through decide you feel like taking a nap instead, you weren't wrong when you were watching the holo, you just decided 'no, I want something else right now'. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
247
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Posted - 2015.07.27 07:18:01 -
[28] - Quote
And yet there's the paradox in that an omniscient and omnipotent creature would already know ahead of time every consequence and outcome of any decision it would have made, including whether or not it would change its mind and why. It makes little sense for such a creature to change its mind down the line, because if it actually is omnipotent and omniscient, it should have the ability to get it right from the get go.
Of course, it's rather academic at any rate. An omniscient and omnipotent being would recognize that the state of the universe is one filled with suffering, horror and quite inventive death. This is, by every dogma in place, by design and not being rectified, so it is clearly an agreeable state of existence for this being, which makes it unequivocally an evil creature.
If this is not the case, it either does not know or it is powerless to change the state of affairs, which would in turn mean it's one of the following three: Impotent, Ignorant or Evil. Whichever one you pick, it's not worth the worship even if you assume its existence as a given.
It is a rather terrifying but inescapable notion that any capsuleer I've ever met is a more morally and ethically upstanding creature than an omniscient and omnipotent creature that'd allow humanity to exist in such a state. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
610
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Posted - 2015.07.27 07:28:55 -
[29] - Quote
Truth. If there is a God, it's a sadist at best, psychotic at worst.
Of course, I have to admit that anything omniscient would be absolutely, completely, barking mad by out standards, so that's not that surprising, I suppose. |
Haruchai Khan
91
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Posted - 2015.07.27 08:29:05 -
[30] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:And yet there's the paradox in that an omniscient and omnipotent creature would already know ahead of time every consequence and outcome of any decision it would have made, including whether or not it would change its mind and why. It makes little sense for such a creature to change its mind down the line, because if it actually is omnipotent and omniscient, it should have the ability to get it right from the get go.
I am not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination, but it is clear to me that the conception of an omniscient, omnipotent god must perforce depend on that deity being outside Time. In other words, trying to conceive of such a god being constrained by linear time, such as simple cause and effect, must be fundamentally flawed. Time for such a being must be like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey ... er... stuff. Well, the metaphor ran away with me, but I'm sure you understand.
There is no paradox, because to such a deity, all things may happen at the same moment or in some conceptual framework beyond our understanding.
I prefer to deal with things I can comprehend, and since the Amarr accept the Empress as their leader, I am comfortable with that choice. To undermine the Empress and her legitimacy merely makes the Empire even more difficult to deal with when trying to hold them to their treaties and attitude to the other legitimate powers of the cluster.
The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong.
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