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DaReaper
Net 7
2438
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Posted - 2015.07.29 15:58:08 -
[31] - Quote
I really do not understand why people whine about ogb' something that has been in game for a very long time. Unless i have missed whine threads over the years due to not paying attention.
You do know that just because you lose doens;t mean they were boosted, they could of had implants, drugs, or used heat to kick your ass.
And a booster alt can;t boot if he's cloaked, and most of the time they have less offenses if boosted. So you drop probes to make him run. Then go after your target. not that difficult. or go into the the fight thinking they might be boosted and plan accordingly. you know, use your damn brain.
Or get a friend to boost for you to even the playing field.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39417
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Posted - 2015.07.29 16:04:22 -
[32] - Quote
On-grid boosts won't make it easier for the solo pvper, because:
1. Vincent's post above 2. Will favour large groups 3. Affects only lowsec and nullsec without changing anything in highsec 4. grid foo
If/when there are changes, I'd prefer a broader set of options that solo pvpers and fleets can use to counter the effects of links. Things like:
- Deployable boost blocking unit that can be dropped on grid and have an area of effect against all ships - Modules that can be fitted to ships that when used, counter the effects of links (eg. similar to ECM Burst that is a small area, or targetted modules that can be used against a primary)
Links are here to stay for the foreseeable future and if they are changed, more interesting play options for players would be better than just the same thing in a different place.
Just my 0.02c
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
550
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Posted - 2015.07.29 16:43:49 -
[33] - Quote
Niriel Greez wrote:Zsha wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:Ccp has said several times they AGREE OGLs are broken and need fixed They said they cant figure out how to fix the code though Not quite true. They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. (see what happens with 15 people all spam dscan at the same time) What does melting TQ have to do with anything? TQ Isn't even a word. Normal people who hold one account get the shaft. On grid boosting SHOULD be a thing, there would be an increase in Command ship usage since the reason behind their design, to give boosts to fleet members in combat. Fielding a Command ship in an engagement would be a good bring to any fleet AKA LINKS. **** off grid boosting, seriously, it's such a sly way for someone to get the upper hand in an engagement, through solo play/small gang. Really don't get how people enjoy alt-tabbing from combat char/link char, basically using 2 accounts to kill a 1 account holding person. COME ON CCP ALREADY...................................................yaaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnn. Stop posting please. On-grid links means that the bigger entity will be able to defend them, and thus use them, while everyone else will not. This would only benefit the blob further and is a terrible idea. Either completely remove links from the game and refund SP, or leave it as it is.
This is not correct, and is a common red herring thrown out by people in love with their booster alt. A larger entity can easily devote a combat probing/gank team to pinpoint links at safes, gates, or stations and then remove them or force them to dock or jump. Your argument only applies to fleets led by incompetents, and you could just as easily argue that on-grid boosters could be maintained and made tactically useful against incompetent FC's.
It's only the solo players and very small groups which cannot easily counter OGB, aside from bringing their own. Needless to say if the only counter for a booster alt is to buy your own, that's a broken mechanic and clearly pay to win.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
550
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Posted - 2015.07.29 16:50:25 -
[34] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:I really do not understand why people whine about ogb' something that has been in game for a very long time. Unless i have missed whine threads over the years due to not paying attention.
You do know that just because you lose doens;t mean they were boosted, they could of had implants, drugs, or used heat to kick your ass.
And a booster alt can;t boot if he's cloaked, and most of the time they have less offenses if boosted. So you drop probes to make him run. Then go after your target. not that difficult. or go into the the fight thinking they might be boosted and plan accordingly. you know, use your damn brain.
Or get a friend to boost for you to even the playing field.
Have you ever tried to rapidly probe down a strategic cruiser while running a frigate/destroyer 1v1 on your other screen? Let me know how that goes. Boosting is an afk activity; your suggested counter is not. Your second suggested counter is to have a friend who is willing to follow you around all day without actually participating in the game?
And links in lowsec don't sit at safes they sit on gates or stations and dock/jump when aggressed. Use your damn brain and don't comment on things you don't understand.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
550
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Posted - 2015.07.29 16:53:21 -
[35] - Quote
Switch Savage wrote:Just to clarify i have no problem with OGB. When you choose engagements they are just another thing to factor in to the "can i kill him" assessment.
The risk level for that advantage is too low compared to drugs, implants, and faction hulls/mods.
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Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
460
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:00:27 -
[36] - Quote
This game would be so much better if there was some way to limit humans to one character. No throwaway scouts, everyone jumps blind, no solo OGB, no using your alt to remove kill rights etc.... Want a bomber wing? Have friends, Want a scout? Have friends. Want boosts? Have friends...etc...
No company is going to kill their income stream like that though. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1045
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:03:03 -
[37] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ... "Are they on the over view?" "Are they boosting?" Yes + yes = receive boosts. This. The server already figures out which ships share the same grid. You would think applying boosts to just those ships would not be that expensive in sever cycles.
Only if you didn't think particularly hard, and didn't bother watching the Dogma presentation from FF.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5139
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:05:26 -
[38] - Quote
Copy-n-pasta from: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5570839#post5570839
CCP Fozzie wrote:When we have any timelines to report we'll report them, in the meantime all I can say is that it will happen sometime between now and the end of time. Very likely closer to now than to the end of time, but those things are hard to be certain about.
CCP Fozzie wrote:It's a performance optimization problem. We could turn on range-based boosting in Odyssey [released on Tuesday, June 4th, 2013] but it would melt all the servers.
And this isn't being delayed by Odyssey, the team working on the underlying code that will make ongrid boosting possible (along with many other things) isn't releasing anything in Odyssey. It's just that big of a project.
So like I said before, at some point CCP Veritas will make all my ganglink-related dreams come true but I honestly do not know when that point will be. When Veritas describes a programming challenge as "very hard" I tend to believe him. CCP Veritas left CCP and went to Riot Games. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4038
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:05:49 -
[39] - Quote
Many people wonder why CCP hasn't already implemented simple tweaks that would go a long way in re-shuffling the link meta, with zero impact on the server load:
1. Reduce the bonuses: they're extremely OP compared to any other option (implants, shiny mods, etc.)
2. Give at least a weapons timer: boosters sitting on station or gates are easy mode; might as well allow people to boost while docked!
3. Give a sig radius increase while active: same as above, considering links in safespots
4. Show on killmails: a simple asterisk (*) next to a ship on the killmail that received boosts in, say, the last 30 minutes would be good enough (no need to be more accurate, imo)
These combined would solve the only real issue with links: using them or not is currently NOT a meaningful choice, because it's ALWAYS better to have them. Uninteresting gameplay, imho.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Arla Sarain
568
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:07:35 -
[40] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ... "Are they on the over view?" "Are they boosting?" Yes + yes = receive boosts. Never understood why this wouldn't work when all the naysayers keep trolling like they know something. Nobody cares what distance they are at. If it's on grid, it's manageable, or at least less obscure. And what about the watchlist. You don't get health bars if people are off-grid. Doubt it's an expensive operation. Like somebody said, CCP is just milking subs. As with all alts. |
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Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4038
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:16:55 -
[41] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:And what about the watchlist. You don't get health bars if people are off-grid. Doubt it's an expensive operation. Good point!
I think there's a difference, though: watchlist is just information (that the server relays anyway every time you lock somebody), link bonuses would have to be continuously checked and recalculated.
No idea of the details, but currently they need to be recalculated just during session changes (e.g. gate jumps). Or if the boosting ship activates/deactivates its links (but there's a cycle time for that).
Would be interesting if somebody had more technical details on this...
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5139
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:21:23 -
[42] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Many people wonder why CCP hasn't already implemented simple tweaks that would go a long way in re-shuffling the link meta, with zero impact on the server load:
1. Reduce the bonuses: they're extremely OP compared to any other option (implants, shiny mods, etc.) Boosting has already been nerfed. Eliminating it would eliminate an entire facet of gameplay.
Dev Post - [Odyssey 1.1] Warfare Links, Mindlinks, Gang bonuses
Dev Blog - Back to the Balancing Future Command and Conquer
Patch Notes for Odyssey 1.1 Implants Ship Balancing - Command Ships |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1046
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:21:45 -
[43] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ... "Are they on the over view?" "Are they boosting?" Yes + yes = receive boosts. Never understood why this wouldn't work when all the naysayers keep trolling like they know something.
Oh, well, if you can't understand it why it's difficult, then it must actually be quite easy. There's no possible way your inability to understand is actually a personal shortcoming, after all.
Quote:No idea of the details, but currently they need to be recalculated just during session changes (e.g. gate jumps). Or if the boosting ship activates/deactivates its links (but there's a cycle time for that).
Bingo.
Quote:Would be interesting if somebody had more technical details on this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xT6ddbIJRtg
Largely covers it (and some other things).
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
552
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:33:08 -
[44] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:... They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ. Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though. ... "Are they on the over view?" "Are they boosting?" Yes + yes = receive boosts. Never understood why this wouldn't work when all the naysayers keep trolling like they know something. Nobody cares what distance they are at. If it's on grid, it's manageable, or at least less obscure. And what about the watchlist. You don't get health bars if people are off-grid. Doubt it's an expensive operation. Like somebody said, CCP is just milking subs. As with all alts. Lan Wang wrote:
well doubt it will happen so get use to it and buy a booster or some nice shiny implants
Literally half the bullsh*t. Implants give 1 effect. And implants stack with links. You don't counter links by having implants. You counter a linking alt by going through probing gymnastics whilst the other guy comfortably manages his main char. In lowsec its even safer, because you just sit your neutral alts on gates or stations and docks/jumps at any sign of danger. The main avoids fights or disengages. This toxic leniency towards OGB is pretty sickening. Undock more often and start to matter please. Like Demerius said, current OGB links only help small gangs against large groups if the said large group decided to not commit one of their grunts to do some probing. The removal of OGB ruining it for small gangs is bollocks. Small gangs win fights by kiting the crap out of all those brawly ship fans, not through OGB.
The OGB-supported small kite gang is pretty laughable really. They come through Tama all the time. Occasionally they lure someone out and get a kill (usually a frigate, faction at best) or we land on one with a well timed bounce and pop him. The group I fly with has plenty of boosters so generally we just turn those on and run them off. In reality the way the linked kite gang some people seem to think is such a critical element of the game plays out is mostly a lot of burning in and out between 100-200k looking at each other until someone gets bored and leaves. It's not a terribly exciting or content producing playstyle. Most of the time you catch and blob one and the rest run. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
59
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:50:40 -
[45] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Not quite true.
They're looking for a way which won't melt TQ.
Ranged is easy. Just test the range to the boosting ship ever X. That's an expensive operation though.
(see what happens with 15 people all spam dscan at the same time) I've been wondering - was there ever an explanation as to what it was about "On-grid" that was going to melt the server? The idea that knowing what's on grid for purposes of overview is fine, but having that info roll to link propagation is a fire in the server room just seems weird.
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DaReaper
Net 7
2439
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:53:06 -
[46] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:DaReaper wrote:I really do not understand why people whine about ogb' something that has been in game for a very long time. Unless i have missed whine threads over the years due to not paying attention.
You do know that just because you lose doens;t mean they were boosted, they could of had implants, drugs, or used heat to kick your ass.
And a booster alt can;t boot if he's cloaked, and most of the time they have less offenses if boosted. So you drop probes to make him run. Then go after your target. not that difficult. or go into the the fight thinking they might be boosted and plan accordingly. you know, use your damn brain.
Or get a friend to boost for you to even the playing field. Have you ever tried to rapidly probe down a strategic cruiser while running a frigate/destroyer 1v1 on your other screen? Let me know how that goes. Boosting is an afk activity; your suggested counter is not. Your second suggested counter is to have a friend who is willing to follow you around all day without actually participating in the game? And links in lowsec don't sit at safes they sit on gates or stations and dock/jump when aggressed. Use your damn brain and don't comment on things you don't understand.
Bolded important part. if they are afk then scan them down and kill them. "but its hard to scan them' then get better at scanning
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
Yes i am optimistic about eve.. i'm giving it till dec 31st 2016 before i doom n gloom
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ISD Buldath
ISD STAR
37
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Posted - 2015.07.29 17:53:13 -
[47] - Quote
Quote: 23. Post constructively.
Negative feedback can be very useful to further improve EVE Online provided that it is presented in a civil and factual manner. All users are encouraged to honestly express their feelings regarding EVE Online and how it can be improved. Posts that are non-constructive, insulting or in breach of the rules will be deleted regardless of how valid the ideas behind them may be. Users are also reminded that posting with a lack of content also constitutes non-constructive posting.
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