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Koniforous
Tauren Transit
261
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Posted - 2015.07.31 13:34:37 -
[31] - Quote
Cista2 wrote:
In a sense it works very much like this thread here. You have posted 15 times, I have posted just 2 times. But I have already embarassed you, due to the fact that my posts - like my price cuts - dig deeper.
I just bought the **** outta this listing.
TAUTX: Private Bank & Lending
TAUTX: Collateral Liquidation / Discount Items
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Droodid
Antec Enterprises
53
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:37:03 -
[32] - Quote
Hate Myself wrote:This has puzzled me for some time but I typically only see things from a 0.01 ISKGÇÖers point of view. Because I don't...Hate Myself!! (Badum-Tisch!). Sorry, couldn't resist.
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0000000000ZERO0000000000
Zero Zentharis
2
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:10:30 -
[33] - Quote
Hate Myself wrote: Nope, I have been at it a few years (and yeah, 5-10b is not a lot).
I'd think that large number of people in this thread make that much in profit each month, and I highly doubt they do so by .01 ISKing.
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Makhpella
Bad Taste.
40
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Posted - 2015.07.31 15:25:11 -
[34] - Quote
Hate Myself wrote: So, yeah, I need educating, why do you NOT 0.01 ISK?
You might lose your sanity. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
220
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Posted - 2015.07.31 17:08:32 -
[35] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Max Deveron wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Max Deveron wrote:I as industrialist (actually building the stuff) pretty much only have the ISK investment of the production costs to worry about.
I have seen 0.01's do that to me on the market when i place things just below or even at their lowest sell order prices. Now what is funny is when i start dropping the price by 500k-5 million....they still keep dropping at .01
I dont place buy orders, i can build 100 destroyers at the cost of just under 100k, or some battlecruisers at the cost of 35 million for a stack of 10 of them and sell at 70-80 each, same with battleships, freighters, orcas, modules, and especially rigs.
And if i have enough stock of something i can destroy the market quite easily because of the nature of .01's Like last November, talos were going for as much as 80-90 mill....when a 0.1 attempted to do his thing i just started dropping prices...i sold my last talos for about 70 mill when i was done. The market however had dipped afterwards to avg 60-64 on buy orders and as low as 66 on avg in sell orders and di not recover till late Feb/early March to its former Nov pricing.
So I must ask, when you see this going on....why do you insist on 0.01ing the stuff when it becomes obvious your 0.01 does not affect me at all, ever?
*on side note* my CEO told me not to do that anymore, because we have the ability like every other serious indy guy to dump several categories. There is no way to build destroyers at 100k each. I build Catalysts quite often and depending on the market they cost 600-850k to build each hull. They are a basket of minerals and are as such sensitive to price fluctuations, mostly caused by fluctuations in supercapital demand. IIRC the Mexallon alone is more than 100k even at the present historic low prices for Mex. But if you can build Catalysts for 100k each, feel free to contract twenty thousand of them to me at 200k each tomorrow, and another quarter million to my alliance. Had this discussion once a long time ago..... whether i do it myself or pay some one to do it....1 hour of mining will net all the low end minerals for 85-90 cats. a few missions and bam enough stuff to melt down takes care of the meg and zyd...... so yeah just paying the production costs....100 destroyers, cats/thrashers/corms are roughly about 40,000 isk per ship to build. You are a Minerals I Mine Are Free person? In that case, my offer to purchase twenty thousand catalysts at 200k each stands. Or any smaller number. I can provide BPCs if you do not own the relevant BPOs.
Hilarious, but no sorry...we dont sell cats, our alts use them. you will have to give us some better pricing, and also maybe guarantees....not limited to your entire Alliances API non-expiry for each account per player, a RL home number, maybe address, and a RL credit report before we do direct business with you. Oh and btw, i just know the numbers from testing them out....otherwise my corp rarely mines itself, we are Indy as in mnaufacturing not a mining corp. |
HeXxploiT
Big Diggers Get Off My Lawn
164
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Posted - 2015.07.31 18:23:52 -
[36] - Quote
virm pasuul wrote:This thread seems like a ego stroke "look how clever I am" post, but it paints the opposite picture to the intended one for me. There is a time and a place for 0.01ing, however that is not all the time and everywhere. Consideration of factors like daily volume, peaks and troughs, adjacent price density at certain points, awareness of market manipulation attempts, even market cost of raw materials versus market cost of finished item, can all make you more ISK for less effort.
That you cannot see something does not mean it does not exist, only that you cannot see it.
To answer the question that is the title of this thread. "To make more ISK."
I think he's speaking what he knows from his limited experience. The reality is more evident to those of us who are more experienced traders. I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment. Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk. Trouble with this philosophy is that it takes you a week to get rid of your position at 100% profit potential when you could have received 75% profit potential in one day and then had that much more free isk to trade with. The bottom line is that if you turn a profit you are succeeding but not all traders are created equal and this is something that takes time and experience to learn. |
Aker Krane
OMEGADYNE LABS Rising Darkness
17
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Posted - 2015.07.31 18:46:24 -
[37] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote: I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment. Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk.
This ^ |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research Create Alliance
633
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Posted - 2015.07.31 18:48:09 -
[38] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote: Hilarious, but no sorry...we dont sell cats, our alts use them. you will have to give us some better pricing, and also maybe guarantees....not limited to your entire Alliances API non-expiry for each account per player, a RL home number, maybe address, and a RL credit report before we do direct business with you. Oh and btw, i just know the numbers from testing them out....otherwise my corp rarely mines itself, we are Indy as in mnaufacturing not a mining corp.
You can have all of my information if you'll sell me destroyers at 400k/unit .
WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs
WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
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Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5208
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Posted - 2015.08.01 00:55:59 -
[39] - Quote
HeXxploiT wrote:
I think he's speaking what he knows from his limited experience. The reality is more evident to those of us who are more experienced traders. I have found that one of the biggest mistakes traders make is always wanting to get the maximum profit from their investment. Many inexperienced traders fail to realize that time=isk. Trouble with this philosophy is that it takes you a week to get rid of your position at 100% profit potential when you could have received 75% profit potential in one day and then had that much more free isk to trade with. The bottom line is that if you turn a profit you are succeeding but not all traders are created equal and this is something that takes time and experience to learn.
Part of it is understanding whether you are capital constrained or RL time constrained.
One of the hardest things to do, IMO, is to incur expenses to gain liquidity fast to seize a short term opportunity. Whether it be overpaying for a loan to get it filled within ten minutes, or selling trade stock below what you paid for it, to jump on something better.
I did this when the CovOps rebalance was announced - immediately looked for a loan and offered more than fair interest to get it filled fast, so I could run multiple lines vomiting out Lachesis hulls. Worked for me - I had to pay 300m for the loan (5b at 6%/month with decent collateral) but easily made more than that back.
I missed the opportunity to do this on Morphite. Once I'd established that it would go from 6.6k to (my projection) 10.5-11k, I should have panic sold *everything* semi-liquid and bought up three or four million units. Instead I only bought half a million with the ISK I had on hand.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Plato Idari
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
25
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Posted - 2015.08.01 03:30:10 -
[40] - Quote
I don't .01 isk because I value my time more than you do. It makes more sense for me to raise the price to the point where you wont/cant .01 isk me than it to stick around every 5 minutes to change my price. If I really care about an order I might check in on it once an hour. |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5211
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Posted - 2015.08.01 06:48:37 -
[41] - Quote
Plato Idari wrote:I don't .01 isk because I value my time more than you do. It makes more sense for me to raise the price to the point where you wont/cant .01 isk me than it to stick around every 5 minutes to change my price. If I really care about an order I might check in on it once an hour.
If I'm ddoing something semi passive like POS bashing oror waiting out a GCC timer I'm happy to check orders each five minutes.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Avi Shekelstien
New Order Logistics CODE.
14
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:48:10 -
[42] - Quote
Why not 0.01? Job, family, social life... |
Thomas Cromwell
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.08.02 16:50:48 -
[43] - Quote
Is it possible to trade in Jita without 0.01isking every 5 minutes? I thought it was only possible if you massively undercut everyone and limit your profits. |
Cista2
Phoibe Enterprises
139
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Posted - 2015.08.02 17:56:55 -
[44] - Quote
Thomas Cromwell wrote:Is it possible to trade in Jita without 0.01isking every 5 minutes? I thought it was only possible if you massively undercut everyone and limit your profits. Prices move up and down in cycles or due to changes in EVE gameplay. If you can predict the direction of movement, your price is golden :)
My channel: "Signatures"
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Recommended: "The Biomass Bar" (for corpse selling)
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Thomas Cromwell
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:00:22 -
[45] - Quote
Cista2 wrote:Thomas Cromwell wrote:Is it possible to trade in Jita without 0.01isking every 5 minutes? I thought it was only possible if you massively undercut everyone and limit your profits. Prices move up and down in cycles or due to changes in EVE gameplay. If you can predict the direction of movement, your price is golden :)
In many ways I think this is how people escape 0.01 isking. Even if you only update your order a few times a day, eventually it will be filled I guess. If it turns out the item has dropped, then just wait till it raises again. I'm only new to trading, so I'm not sure of this will work out, but I would much rather get a slower return from leisurely trading than spending 12 hours a day updating prices every 5 minutes. |
Tomb Ovaert
Freelance Entreprises LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.08.03 11:14:03 -
[46] - Quote
Professionals don't cent ISK, they adjust by a whole ISK. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4039
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Posted - 2015.08.03 21:34:52 -
[47] - Quote
I sell stuff in small markets. I have from zero to 4-5 active competitors on the items I sell.
So:
. If competitors' price is ok for me (decent profits) --> I -0,01 ISK (or a bit more, I just roll the scroll wheel a bit)
. If price is too high --> I list at a high but more reasonable price, in order to not scare off potential buyers
. If it's too low --> I list at a decent (higher) price and wait for the other dude to change his mind or deplete his stock
. If it's close to or lower than my costs --> I buy everything!
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5212
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Posted - 2015.08.03 23:37:40 -
[48] - Quote
Tomb Ovaert wrote:Professionals don't cent ISK, they adjust by a whole ISK.
10.01 or 100.01 is better. A good 10% of the time the first undercutter doesn't realise this and you get 5 more minutes as the best order.
On high value items (battleship hulls, exhumers, etc) 10000.01 is better again. Harder to notice. 10 million and a cent is an option on Maruaders and similarly priced items but I don't trade those often enough to comment.
Incidentally this is why I tend to avoid prices that end in lots of 9s. 9 and 8 look similar enough that it's an easy mistake to make to not notice someone changing a digit to an 8.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1798
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Posted - 2015.08.04 12:13:40 -
[49] - Quote
i tend to undercut by more than 1m / sell order
i usually build the stuff i sell and i make sure that all my jobs have at least 50m in profit.
that way, i can undercut 50 times before actually loosing anything.
deep undercutting tends to (temporarily) scare away people from a market which makes it much easier to turn over my items. and i want my money invested in indu lines, not in stuff sitting in the auction house.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5213
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Posted - 2015.08.04 23:24:06 -
[50] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:i tend to undercut by more than 1m / sell order
i usually build the stuff i sell and i make sure that all my jobs have at least 50m in profit.
that way, i can undercut 50 times before actually loosing anything.
deep undercutting tends to (temporarily) scare away people from a market which makes it much easier to turn over my items. and i want my money invested in indu lines, not in stuff sitting in the auction house.
I do this if and only if my production operations are capital constrained.
For me, this is necessary if I'm building tech 2 cruisers and comparably expensive items. I simply cannot afford to sit on 85 Oneiroses or 65 Ishtars.
Generally though, I find that anything I could produce where I would be capital constrained, I hit a different barrier first: my personal production operations cause a localised flooding of the market and drive down prices.
For what it's worth, I have no hesitation selling something I produced below build cost if my market instincts are telling me that the price is falling and will not recover.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5194
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Posted - 2015.08.04 23:55:41 -
[51] - Quote
I'll only 0.01 ISK if the market competition is very tight.
If the other traders are very aggressive at 0.01 ISK, I'll just say frell-it and move the order to my minimally-acceptable price.
If that is challenged, I'll just wait.
There are some items that I only sell direct to buy orders, because the movement in the sell orders is glacial (unrealistic profit expectations, or aggressive competitors). |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5214
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Posted - 2015.08.05 00:13:43 -
[52] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I'll only 0.01 ISK if the market competition is very tight.
If the other traders are very aggressive at 0.01 ISK, I'll just say frell-it and move the order to my minimally-acceptable price.
If that is challenged, I'll just wait.
There are some items that I only sell direct to buy orders, because the movement in the sell orders is glacial (unrealistic profit expectations, or aggressive competitors).
How do you determine your minimally-acceptable price?
I don't like to have a formula for something like that (103% of what I paid, or similar) as sometimes you want to dump stock fast and are OK with taking a loss, but this isn't something I do lightly.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1798
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Posted - 2015.08.05 14:37:19 -
[53] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Gilbaron wrote:i tend to undercut by more than 1m / sell order
i usually build the stuff i sell and i make sure that all my jobs have at least 50m in profit.
that way, i can undercut 50 times before actually loosing anything.
deep undercutting tends to (temporarily) scare away people from a market which makes it much easier to turn over my items. and i want my money invested in indu lines, not in stuff sitting in the auction house.
I do this if and only if my production operations are capital constrained. For me, this is necessary if I'm building tech 2 cruisers and comparably expensive items. I simply cannot afford to sit on 85 Oneiroses or 65 Ishtars. Generally though, I find that anything I could produce where I would be capital constrained, I hit a different barrier first: my personal production operations cause a localised flooding of the market and drive down prices. For what it's worth, I have no hesitation selling something I produced below build cost if my market instincts are telling me that the price is falling and will not recover.
i always keep an eye on what jita moves per day.
65 ishtars wouldn't be a problem for me to sit on, since jita alone moves close to 200/day. i just don't invest that much in a single product for other reasons.
i wouldn't get nowhere near those 85 oneiros though.
my personal rules for indu jobs are: no more than 1b/item invested. no more than a days worth of sales per item cooking.
that way i can keep risks relatively low. and if one product falls in price, i can easily afford waiting for a week or even a month. |
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