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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.07.31 08:25:10 -
[1] - Quote
My alts have grown quite nicely and are finally about ready to undock in Paladins, destination C4 WHs. But even after all the research I did, youtube video watching and EFT warrioring, I still can't shake this uneasy feeling that something is missing with these Marauders. The problem is in their survival ability in the mist of death space. The death threat isn't from the sleepers but rather the Space Piranhas that lurk there in their mist watching for prey. I don't mind losing a Marauder or two once a month, but once a week would force me to purchase an express warp ticket back to high sec. So I began pondering and finally came up with a very simple solution that will greatly increase a Marauders chance to survive a blob attack when someone jumps you in hostile space.
My proposal is for CCP to simply add another tank slot to the Marauders. And while you're at it, please do the same for the CSs. These are T2 ships afterall, takes forever to train, are gank magnets and costs a bundle with practically no insurance coverage so the least you can do is make them worth it by increasing their survival chances a tad. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
908
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Posted - 2015.07.31 08:44:10 -
[2] - Quote
... Naaa....
...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....
No Worries
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.07.31 09:29:38 -
[3] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:... Naaa....
...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....
And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE.
Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP?
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NightmareX
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
662
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Posted - 2015.07.31 09:42:24 -
[4] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:... Naaa....
...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....
And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE. Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP? Have you ever used a Marauder before?
When i single Marauder can take on a 30 man cruiser fleet alone in PVP, don't you think they are OP enough?
Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:
1: Asteroid Madness
2: Clash of the Empires
3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
908
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Posted - 2015.07.31 10:07:51 -
[5] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:... Naaa....
...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....
And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE. Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP?
You cant see it??
An Extra 1000+ dps tank?... you think thats not op? Or virtual Cap immunity?
I dispair sometimes
No Worries
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1305
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Posted - 2015.07.31 10:21:57 -
[6] - Quote
yes please i would like to add another ewar, tank or xlasb shield booster to the mids of my vargur and also would love another damage mod in the lows of my vargur :)
fully support op'ing the fck out of marauders
ps can we up the cpu a bit too so i can fit more stuff on it?
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
908
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Posted - 2015.07.31 10:34:30 -
[7] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:yes please i would like to add another ewar, tank or xlasb shield booster to the mids of my vargur and also would love another damage mod in the lows of my vargur :) fully support op'ing the fck out of marauders ps can we up the cpu a bit too so i can fit more stuff on it?
You could with an extra slot
No Worries
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1305
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Posted - 2015.07.31 10:40:56 -
[8] - Quote
ChromeStriker wrote:Lan Wang wrote:yes please i would like to add another ewar, tank or xlasb shield booster to the mids of my vargur and also would love another damage mod in the lows of my vargur :) fully support op'ing the fck out of marauders ps can we up the cpu a bit too so i can fit more stuff on it? You could with an extra slot
no i want more cpu for more damage and tank stuff, ie i want to remove these faction co-processors so i can get more dps init
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1227
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:29:57 -
[9] - Quote
Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus. |
Janeway84
Def Squadron Pride Before Fall
173
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Posted - 2015.07.31 12:37:07 -
[10] - Quote
Lol i always thought the golem and vargur could use a little more cpu .. slots would be making them even better.. personnaly I would like 25 m3 larger drone bay. |
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1939
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Posted - 2015.07.31 13:21:50 -
[11] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:... Naaa....
...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....
And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE. Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP? Have you ever used a Marauder in PVP before? When i single Marauder can take on a 30 man cruiser fleet alone in PVP, don't you think they are OP enough? You should watch this to see what the Marauders are capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdkThis one to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQKmODSLkE When I grow up, I want to PvP like you.
Mad props.
Also, to the OP...no. Just...no.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
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Posted - 2015.07.31 13:59:22 -
[12] - Quote
NightmareX wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:ChromeStriker wrote:... Naaa....
...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....
And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE. Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP? Have you ever used a Marauder in PVP before? When i single Marauder can take on a 30 man cruiser fleet alone in PVP, don't you think they are OP enough? You should watch this to see what the Marauders are capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdkThis one to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQKmODSLkE
I've seen both of them. The first one didn't have any curses or geddons or else that Golem would've died 3x over. The second, Big Miker is a notorious Marauder PVPer and only hunts particular prey that he knows like the back of his hands.
And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can jumped on by unknown assailants. If you could refit using a Mobile Depot properly, then that wouldn't be a problem. But I hear that all it takes is less than 10 secs for gankers to reinforce a mobile depot, which isn't enough time to properly refit for anti-ganking. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
62
|
Posted - 2015.07.31 14:05:17 -
[13] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus.
CSs like the Sleipnir really could use an extra mid so they can fit a MMJD without sacrificing tank. Also the Astarte has almost identical tank as it's little brother the Deimos, doesn't that seem wrong when it takes an extra 4-5 months to fly an Astarte?
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
1939
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Posted - 2015.07.31 14:41:11 -
[14] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can get jumped on by unknown assailants. Irrelevant. You can't justify a balance change for a specific intended use when the same change would wholly overpower in another intended use. You can't make "PvE-only" changes, you have to consider everything.
Keep in mind, I say this as someone who does PvE content in losec in a Marauder. I'd love nothing more than more fitting options, but at the end of the day, if you get caught in a PvE fit by a competent PvP gang, you're toast with or without an uber-tank.
Daniela Doran wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus. CSs like the Sleipnir really could use an extra mid so they can fit a MMJD without sacrificing tank. Also the Astarte has almost identical tank as it's little brother the Deimos, doesn't that seem wrong when it takes an extra 4-5 months to fly an Astarte? The MJD argument I could get behind if there was some way to ensure that the extra slot could only be used by a MJD. But there isn't, so I can't. Simply adding another mid-slot to all CSs would not only make them all more powerful, it would benefit the shield tankers more than the armor tankers.
And if by "almost identical" you mean twice the EHP, a bigger capacitor (with an admittedly slower recharge rate), and being much more likely to receive the benefits of armor links, then sure, the Astarte has an almost identical tank to a Deimos.
Also, you can't really compare training times between HACs and CSs. Contrary to popular belief, CSs are not simply a step up from HACs. They have different roles (even if they have similar styles) and require different skills to use. CCP made this abundantly clear when they shook up the skill requirements a few years back.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
Inaugural C&P Thunderdome Champion
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8436
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Posted - 2015.07.31 18:35:46 -
[15] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can get jumped on by unknown assailants. The problem is that both things there utilize the same mechanics. What may be fine for one may be overpowered for another and vice versa.
In the case of Marauders; - fit for PVP they can tank FAR more than any PVE fit ship (easily 5k dps, up to 15 to 20k dps with some specialized setups)... but this comes at the cost of endurance (the key is to tank long enough to kill most of the incoming damage). - in PvE... the tanking style is the opposite; fit for endurance first and tanking amount/speed second. This is because NPCs come in waves and deal large amounts of damage over a longer period of time.
Pro-tip: fit your Marauder for PvP at all times in all levels of security space. Even if you plan on just doing PvE. You just have to control the impulse of keeping a repper on at all times and accept that your profit margins may not be as high (because you are no longer min/maxing).
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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ISD FlowingSpice
isd star
8
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Posted - 2015.07.31 20:52:21 -
[16] - Quote
Moved from Ships & Modules to Features & Ideas. |
Grezh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
42
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Posted - 2015.07.31 23:03:34 -
[17] - Quote
I was going to agree with you since I believed that you wanted to give the pally and kronos some much needed mid slots, but after reading your proposal I've gotta agree with the commentators, the marauders currently have very good tank, what they need is to be more rounded, ie: lows for the shield marauders, and mids for the armour marauders. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
66
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 01:25:38 -
[18] - Quote
Grezh wrote:I was going to agree with you since I believed that you wanted to give the pally and kronos some much needed mid slots, but after reading your proposal I've gotta agree with the commentators, the marauders currently have very good tank, what they need is to be more rounded, ie: lows for the shield marauders, and mids for the armour marauders.
It really didn't matter to me, I just wanted them to have an extra mid or low slot wherever.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
66
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Posted - 2015.08.01 01:39:47 -
[19] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can get jumped on by unknown assailants. Irrelevant. You can't justify a balance change for a specific intended use when the same change would wholly overpower in another intended use. You can't make "PvE-only" changes, you have to consider everything. Keep in mind, I say this as someone who does PvE content in losec in a Marauder. I'd love nothing more than more fitting options, but at the end of the day, if you get caught in a PvE fit by a competent PvP gang, you're toast with or without an uber-tank. Daniela Doran wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus. CSs like the Sleipnir really could use an extra mid so they can fit a MMJD without sacrificing tank. Also the Astarte has almost identical tank as it's little brother the Deimos, doesn't that seem wrong when it takes an extra 4-5 months to fly an Astarte? The MJD argument I could get behind if there was some way to ensure that the extra slot could only be used by a MJD. But there isn't, so I can't. Simply adding another mid-slot to all CSs would not only make them all more powerful, it would benefit the shield tankers more than the armor tankers. And if by "almost identical" you mean twice the EHP, a bigger capacitor (with an admittedly slower recharge rate), and being much more likely to receive the benefits of armor links, then sure, the Astarte has an almost identical tank to a Deimos. Also, you can't really compare training times between HACs and CSs. Contrary to popular belief, CSs are not simply a step up from HACs. They have different roles (even if they have similar styles) and require different skills to use. CCP made this abundantly clear when they shook up the skill requirements a few years back.
Yep an oversight on my part not thinking about the PVPers that would use these improved Marauders to wreck unforeseen devastation that would only cause the forums to bleed for their removal from game. The idea that the T2 BS & T2 BCs needed an extra low/mid slot just kept bugging me so I had to put it out there to get it out of my system if it got curtailed.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
335
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Posted - 2015.08.01 08:03:33 -
[20] - Quote
One of the most tank heavy ships in the game needs more tank.....WTF?
Mauraders need not a single adjustment.
Oh, and to the guy that wants more drone space, maurauders are turret / missile platforms not drone boats.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
360
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Posted - 2015.08.01 08:33:12 -
[21] - Quote
ANOTHER tank slot for the Marauders!?! Their tank is already completely impentrible when fitted correctly.
One of the tournament fights featured a lone Marauder against 3-5 cruisers who couldn't do anything to the monsters tank.
Besides, I fly a Paladin myself and I have no problem with its tank. And they most definately do not require an additional mid slot either. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1443
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Posted - 2015.08.01 10:01:18 -
[22] - Quote
Marauders are just fine as they are.
Even if someone did give you a couple of extra slots on your Marauder, it would not keep you alive. Someone would still catch you. They would just have to bring a few more ships to kill you.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 11:54:23 -
[23] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Marauders are just fine as they are.
Even if someone did give you a couple of extra slots on your Marauder, it would not keep you alive. Someone would still catch you. They would just have to bring a few more ships to kill you.
I was planning on using 2 Paladins for C4s then C5s, but they each cost 1.5 bill isk well fitted with almost no insurance pay out. I'm well aware that they will die eventually, but dying too often too quickly would break my wallet and force me to return back to high-sec grinding missions for SOE. I'd like to avoid that since I've already spent way too much time in high-sec as is because the fun factor I have for eve is starting to rapidly diminish.
So in order for me to be able to continue to enjoy this game any further it's time for me to change and do something more risky and more rewarding than the measly 7-8 bill iskies a month a make grinding SOE missions which is why I trained 2 alts to fly Paladins for WHs. But these ships are gank magnets that all it would take is one cloaky scout to spot you before the blob arrives in force. All the videos I've seen on attacks such as these have all ended with the Marauder dying, mostly due to the power of neuts. I don't mind dying if they can break my 3.8k dps perma tanking Paladin, but I cannot accept dying from capacitor drainage ,So I thought if CCP added one more slot to Marauders then I could create a fit that's almost neut proof and force the cheap gankers to break my tank by force or retreat back to their nest.
If this idea is failed, then what other options do I have Diomedes? |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
67
|
Posted - 2015.08.01 11:58:33 -
[24] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:ANOTHER tank slot for the Marauders!?! Their tank is already completely impentrible when fitted correctly.
One of the tournament fights featured a lone Marauder against 3-5 cruisers who couldn't do anything to the monsters tank.
Besides, I fly a Paladin myself and I have no problem with its tank. And they most definately do not require an additional mid slot either.
WRONG? they die like flies in WH-Space, courtesy of the power of neuts. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1444
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Posted - 2015.08.01 12:20:58 -
[25] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Marauders are just fine as they are.
Even if someone did give you a couple of extra slots on your Marauder, it would not keep you alive. Someone would still catch you. They would just have to bring a few more ships to kill you. I was planning on using 2 Paladins for C4s then C5s, but they each cost 1.5 bill isk well fitted with almost no insurance pay out. I'm well aware that they will die eventually, but dying too often too quickly would break my wallet and force me to return back to high-sec grinding missions for SOE. I'd like to avoid that since I've already spent way too much time in high-sec as is because the fun factor I have for eve is starting to rapidly diminish. So in order for me to be able to continue to enjoy this game any further it's time for me to change and do something more risky and more rewarding than the measly 7-8 bill iskies a month a make grinding SOE missions which is why I trained 2 alts to fly Paladins for WHs. But these ships are gank magnets that all it would take is one cloaky scout to spot you before the blob arrives in force. All the videos I've seen on attacks such as these have all ended with the Marauder dying, mostly due to the power of neuts. I don't mind dying if they can break my 3.8k dps perma tanking Paladin, but I cannot accept dying from capacitor drainage ,So I thought if CCP added one more slot to Marauders then I could create a fit that's almost neut proof and force the cheap gankers to break my tank by force or retreat back to their nest. If this idea is failed, then what other options do I have Diomedes?
Learn how to run C4 WH sites without getting caught - or get some friends. Once you get caught, you are pretty much toast, unless you have friends of your own who are willing to come help you. This is true of almost any ship in Eve. As it says in numerous places, "there is no ship like friendship."
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
67
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Posted - 2015.08.01 14:22:02 -
[26] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:FT Diomedes wrote:Marauders are just fine as they are.
Even if someone did give you a couple of extra slots on your Marauder, it would not keep you alive. Someone would still catch you. They would just have to bring a few more ships to kill you. I was planning on using 2 Paladins for C4s then C5s, but they each cost 1.5 bill isk well fitted with almost no insurance pay out. I'm well aware that they will die eventually, but dying too often too quickly would break my wallet and force me to return back to high-sec grinding missions for SOE. I'd like to avoid that since I've already spent way too much time in high-sec as is because the fun factor I have for eve is starting to rapidly diminish. So in order for me to be able to continue to enjoy this game any further it's time for me to change and do something more risky and more rewarding than the measly 7-8 bill iskies a month a make grinding SOE missions which is why I trained 2 alts to fly Paladins for WHs. But these ships are gank magnets that all it would take is one cloaky scout to spot you before the blob arrives in force. All the videos I've seen on attacks such as these have all ended with the Marauder dying, mostly due to the power of neuts. I don't mind dying if they can break my 3.8k dps perma tanking Paladin, but I cannot accept dying from capacitor drainage ,So I thought if CCP added one more slot to Marauders then I could create a fit that's almost neut proof and force the cheap gankers to break my tank by force or retreat back to their nest. If this idea is failed, then what other options do I have Diomedes? Learn how to run C4 WH sites without getting caught - or get some friends. Once you get caught, you are pretty much toast, unless you have friends of your own who are willing to come help you. This is true of almost any ship in Eve. As it says in numerous places, "there is no ship like friendship."
The without getting caught part is the hardest with marauders while stuck in bastion mode, maybe marauders are just no good for soloing in WHs. Time to scale down to something cheap then like Domis. |
Nyalnara
AdAstra. Beach Club
90
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Posted - 2015.08.01 15:53:36 -
[27] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:The without getting caught part is the hardest with marauders while stuck in bastion mode, maybe marauders are just no good for soloing in WHs. Time to scale down to something cheap then like Domis.
Well, just collapse all holes, put a cloaky scout in front of critical static, go farm. You should be absolutely fine. Unless you're not watching the hole closely enough (Protip: custom sound settings on scout, max gate&WH activation sound output.). Also, if your Paladin setup is 1.5B, you're kinda on the cheap side. Been using a 3B setup, allows for really heavy tanking, and is more or like uncatchable.
In case of ponies, keep calm and start running.
French half-noob. Founder of [DEUPP]Dark Evil Undead Ponies Productions.
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
67
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Posted - 2015.08.02 08:24:03 -
[28] - Quote
Nyalnara wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:The without getting caught part is the hardest with marauders while stuck in bastion mode, maybe marauders are just no good for soloing in WHs. Time to scale down to something cheap then like Domis. Well, just collapse all holes, put a cloaky scout in front of critical static, go farm. You should be absolutely fine. Unless you're not watching the hole closely enough (Protip: custom sound settings on scout, max gate&WH activation sound output.). Also, if your Paladin setup is 1.5B, you're kinda on the cheap side. Been using a 3B setup, allows for really heavy tanking, and is more or like uncatchable.
Ty for the good advice, but if you close the hole, wouldn't another hole spawn elsewhere? Also what if the C4 is swiss cheese with multiple holes? |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1460
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:51:27 -
[29] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Nyalnara wrote:Daniela Doran wrote:The without getting caught part is the hardest with marauders while stuck in bastion mode, maybe marauders are just no good for soloing in WHs. Time to scale down to something cheap then like Domis. Well, just collapse all holes, put a cloaky scout in front of critical static, go farm. You should be absolutely fine. Unless you're not watching the hole closely enough (Protip: custom sound settings on scout, max gate&WH activation sound output.). Also, if your Paladin setup is 1.5B, you're kinda on the cheap side. Been using a 3B setup, allows for really heavy tanking, and is more or like uncatchable. Ty for the good advice, but if you close the hole, wouldn't another hole spawn elsewhere? Also what if the C4 is swiss cheese with multiple holes?
Do not collapse the static. Just lower it to critical.
If your WH has multiple static connections, you may want to find a different WH.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Lugburz
SUPER GOOSE SQUAD Sons of Seraphinus
6
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Posted - 2015.08.02 11:18:04 -
[30] - Quote
lol .. NO.
That being said this could form the basis of an extra 4 racial marauder class battleships being brought into the game that work a little differently to the current ones? For example a t2 gallente marauder drone boat/caldari gunboat?
But i certainly wouldnt add any more slots to the current ships, eve players need to stop attempting to change the current ships and try to get more added imo... |
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