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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6746
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Posted - 2015.08.06 14:53:50 -
[361] - Quote
Captain Awkward wrote:Its called INTERCEPTOR and not EVADER. It got bubble immunity to get more pvp not less pvp by using its imunity to troll and evade capturing. The trollceptor is emergent, you can say that for sure
edit: well maybe they intended for people to poke sov with these interdiction nullified ships that can also just mwd away at mad speed to nearly trivialize the no-warp entosis effect but you know that's a bit much
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
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Salvos Rhoska
1211
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Posted - 2015.08.06 14:58:24 -
[362] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Further derailing of this thread to discuss whether or not you feel my method of communicating with the CSM is correct will be reported.
Report threats in return for an amicable and encouraging suggestion to type up your expert and informed views and address them here to CCP and for public scrutiny, as opposed to attacking, threatening and shouting down people with different opinions.
Ok.
I dont have suggestions. I am not intimately involved or informed on the problem as you are. If I was, I would post them here to CCP and for public review.
But I do know shouting people down and attacking their opinions without offering something better is a losing path. Put your cards on the table. Its easy to be a critic when you have no chips in the game.
Specific wording of OP is: "What I'm looking for is your experienced with fozziesov so far --ánot your opinions or feelings-á- but actual stories about what you've done with fozziesov to date. Good experiences, bad experiences, funny anecdotes.... please share them all.-á"
How about you do that rather than shouting at other players that theirs are wrong. Just a suggestion, you know.
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Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2399
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Posted - 2015.08.06 15:04:37 -
[363] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote: Just dropping links to one battle and then saying "rekt" doesn't actually refute any of the points I made..
Yeah...it kinda did.
p.s. This is the map (and relative ISK/content factors) EvE needs. Not neccessarily wants, like with push-back on jump ranges and jump fatigue -- but what EvE needs, if it is ever to grow past its wall of 10+ years of total-player-count stagnation (and decline?).
It's important to read all the proposed details, including a better ship-replacement insurance scheme (ala Elite:Dangerous), as balm to newbie risk-aversion psychosis, as we make this transition to EvE 2.0...
F
Would you like to know more?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6501
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:09:50 -
[364] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:How about you do that rather than shouting at other players that theirs are wrong. Irony right here.
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Icycle
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
86
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Posted - 2015.08.06 15:12:54 -
[365] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Andreus Ixiris wrote: Just dropping links to one battle and then saying "rekt" doesn't actually refute any of the points I made..
Yeah...it kinda did. p.s. This is the map (and relative ISK/content factors) EvE needs. Not neccessarily wants, like with push-back on jump ranges and jump fatigue -- but what EvE needs, if it is ever to grow past its wall of 10+ years of total-player-count stagnation (and decline?). It's important to read all the proposed details, including a better ship-replacement insurance scheme (ala Elite:Dangerous), as balm to newbie risk-aversion psychosis, as we make this transition to EvE 2.0... F
They kinda did this before but not exactly. What they did was the offered even higher profits that we have now. Nullsec was really full of renters and such. .All of a sudden high sec was empty and you had all the high sec entities complaining the could not war dec or kill anything in high sec. I remember this perfectly. Then CCP nerfed everything down to half or more. People complained nad went back to high sec or unsubbed alts so it does not solves it. |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5550
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:25:48 -
[366] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Yeah...it kinda did. How? You haven't addressed the fact that CCP straight out isn't going to implement the changes you propose, and that even someone as naively delusional as yourself must be aware of that fact. This:
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:p.s. This is the map (and relative ISK/content factors) EvE needs. Is not going to happen. They're not going to strip vast amounts of content from one area of space to bolster another that is demonstrably less popular by average player count. They're not going to destroy hi-sec, they're not going to destroy low-sec and they're most certainly not going to destroy wormhole space. Null-sec is not the be-all and end-all of EVE Online. I cannot believe that I - a genuine, certified autist - am having to kindly remind someone else that human beings other than themselves exist.
You haven't even remotely demonstrated that current nullsec gameplay is integral to EVE's survivability. In fact, if anything, you're demonstrating why the mindset that obsession with nullsec creates is exceptionally dangerous.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Not neccessarily wants, like with push-back on jump ranges and jump fatigue -- but what EvE needs, if it is ever to grow past its wall of 10+ years of total-player-count stagnation (and decline?). It was at this point that I realised Feyd doesn't understand how numbers work. There's a definite downtrend in recent months, but calling the previous ten years of total playercount "stagnant" demonstrates that you are either a remarkably blatant troll or extremely bad at maths. It also completely contradicts your previous point about how battles like B-R5RB cause massive player influxes.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:It's important to read all the proposed details, including a better ship-replacement insurance scheme (ala Elite:Dangerous), as balm to newbie risk-aversion psychosis, as we make this transition to EvE 2.0... F It was at this point that I realised that I barely even need to refute points that Feyd made because he was clearly insane, proposing a scheme that displayed a complete lack of understanding regarding the way in which EVE Online's economy works.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Salvos Rhoska
1212
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Posted - 2015.08.06 15:30:08 -
[367] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:How about you do that rather than shouting at other players that theirs are wrong. Irony right here.
Not as complete an irony as someone who threatens reporting if you dont agree with their shouting down other clients. Its not your message I disagree with. I disagree with your method of shouting other clients down, and attacking their views and experiences without laying your own out.
I do not doubt you have anecdotes, experience and informed views on this system, as requested by OP. I just dont see them presented anywhere.
All I see is attacking other posters for theirs, and now, threatening.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12069
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:35:28 -
[368] - Quote
It was here that I realized that i was aguring on the same side as Lucas Kell. Anyone have a spare samurai sword I could borrow for 5 minutes???
j/jk |
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Origin. Black Legion.
2399
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:39:17 -
[369] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote: ... It was at this point that I realised that I barely even need to refute points that Feyd made...
It was at this point my quivering finger invoked my three-specious-shiptoasts-and-your-out clause.
F
Would you like to know more?
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Salvos Rhoska
1212
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Posted - 2015.08.06 15:42:35 -
[370] - Quote
Youve done good. I for one found your position inform/ed/ative, sincere and critical in ways that matter.
Can we have some more, please? Let it all hang out.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12069
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:44:04 -
[371] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Youve done good. I for one found your position inform/ed/ative, sincere and critical in ways that matter. Can we have some more, please? Let it all hang out.
Can you have some more? yes you can. Lucas is right and you are wrong.
I hope that was enough |
Salvos Rhoska
1212
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:48:05 -
[372] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Salvos Rhoska wrote:Youve done good. I for one found your position inform/ed/ative, sincere and critical in ways that matter. Can we have some more, please? Let it all hang out. Can you have some more? yes you can. Lucas is right and you are wrong. I hope that was enough
Alrighty then
Still want that samurai sword?
j/jk
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Andreus Ixiris
Duty.
5550
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:48:47 -
[373] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote: "I have no actual counterarguments to offer so I'm just going to block you."
How's the weather in Siberia, since you seem to be posting from a salt mine?
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Kit Bradovich
Dicistro Viridae
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 15:59:53 -
[374] - Quote
This thread is interesting Lol
I believe the new game mechanics (fozzie) Lol has created some content and pvp for smaller alliances/corps to take systems on the outskirts of sov holders, but has created the turtle affect in a way.
Meaning that alliances have gotten use to the large scale blob fights to defend a system., mostly because it would take a large fleet to take a system from these alliances. I'm seing in the thread and multiple threads that a single ship can disrupt and or take a system witch sounds unreasonable.
I say from what I'm reading people just don't feel like flying across a region just to attempt to catch a single ship, so now they sit in a home system and wait to see if someone decides to come their way to take a station system. (Turtling) because obviously you don't care to much about the systems that force you to chase or try and catch a enemy.
If it's not a staged fight its kinda boring to some. I'm talking about the fights where both parties know a rough estimate of what each other has and then the fight happens someone comes out the so called winner then they repeat again Lol. (Turtling) until the next staged fight.
Yes some are lazy and only like to hit f1 and call it a day but then again like mentioned earlier.
A ceptor can fly around ringing the doorbell and fleeing when someone answers.
Yes the ceptor is a pvp ship for tackling but mostly in fleets. If your a solo guy I'm throwing this % out there and saying I assume probably 80% of solo ceptors are fit for fast travel and escape (not) pvp fit. So yes its a pvp ship but its mostly used now for travel purposes and with a entosis it can create an annoyance if the purpose of the pilot is just to be funny and have no intention to claim or hold a system.
Anyhow I enjoyed reading this and look forward to reading more lol |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
389
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Posted - 2015.08.06 16:19:45 -
[375] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:ooh its going to be exciting, just think of all the big fights you'll get into, has you salivating, am i right! I take it your definition of big fight is 40 dudes poking at each other in shitfit T1 hulls, as that's about all you get when you actually invade anyone who isn't The Imperium, unfortunately. I assure you, our sigs have tried, and the shows of resistance are sad at best, and outright pathetic at worst. "Something something muh killboard efficiency. Stop feeding them kills guys. Srs, dock up and they'll go away in a couple of days." And they're right, we will, because seriously, **** node lasering. then take their sov push them out then move onto the next fight. someone is going to care about their holdings, yet again another lame pretend excuse for not undocking your big guns and getting into a real fight.
Your problem is the same one most of sov holders have, you care more about your bank account than fighting, you want stare at all your titans all day instead of using them, there is nothing between you and a big fight except that you dont really want one.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Snowmann
Arrow Industries
11
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Posted - 2015.08.06 16:34:16 -
[376] - Quote
Kit Bradovich wrote:This thread is interesting Lol
I believe the new game mechanics (fozzie) Lol has created some content and pvp for smaller alliances/corps to take systems on the outskirts of sov holders, but has created the turtle affect in a way.
Meaning that alliances have gotten use to the large scale blob fights to defend a system., mostly because it would take a large fleet to take a system from these alliances. I'm seing in the thread and multiple threads that a single ship can disrupt and or take a system witch sounds unreasonable.
I say from what I'm reading people just don't feel like flying across a region just to attempt to catch a single ship, so now they sit in a home system and wait to see if someone decides to come their way to take a station system. (Turtling) because obviously you don't care to much about the systems that force you to chase or try and catch a enemy.
If it's not a staged fight its kinda boring to some. I'm talking about the fights where both parties know a rough estimate of what each other has and then the fight happens someone comes out the so called winner then they repeat again Lol. (Turtling) until the next staged fight.
Yes some are lazy and only like to hit f1 and call it a day but then again like mentioned earlier.
A ceptor can fly around ringing the doorbell and fleeing when someone answers.
Yes the ceptor is a pvp ship for tackling but mostly in fleets. If your a solo guy I'm throwing this % out there and saying I assume probably 80% of solo ceptors are fit for fast travel and escape (not) pvp fit. So yes its a pvp ship but its mostly used now for travel purposes and with a entosis it can create an annoyance if the purpose of the pilot is just to be funny and have no intention to claim or hold a system.
Anyhow I enjoyed reading this and look forward to reading more lol
Very nice write up.
I agree that this new form of Sov introduced a new form a Sov warfare that the Super Cap heavy organizations are having issues countering. They want to force direct actions that they can escalate and return it to a form of warfare they have mastered during Dominion Sov.
Its kind of like the US in Vietnam saying to the VC that they can't fight like that... Come to a fight and stick around, until we can get our big assets in...
Well, what you are seeing now is the Forum Meta in full form trying to get the Devs to back down from this change, so thing can get back to normal for them, so they can force the type of warfare they are strongest in.
It don't matter that a bunch of players are enjoying harassing the great powers, its not fun for them, so they want it stomped out before they truly become threaten, since their own "hold" card of Super Escalation doesn't carry the weight it once did.
The attacker doesn't need to grind HP that would allow the defender to respond.
This actually allows attacker to act like guerrillas in Sov warfare and the major Sov holders can't react in time in many cases because they actually hold more Sov than they should.
If their systems were truly occupied in this new occupancy based Sov, there wouldn't be any issues.
So what it boils down to is the major Sov holders basically have a new threat the can't counter and are unwilling to adapt, so they come to the forums and pull the "Stops Fights" game design card in an attempt to gain Dev support in rolling back theses changes.
What makes this so much more interesting is that at a very high level this is so similar to many of the Null Sec inhabitants actions against many HI Sec inhabitants.
Its a form of guerrilla warfare that forces them to scramble about waiting for that attack out of no-where they can't really counter. If they were to take their own medicine, they would realize they are not supposed to be safe anywhere in Eve Online.
Just like anyone is vulnerable to any of the smallest ships in Eve High Sec.
The Major Sov holders are now vulnerable to anyone who can Entosis their stuff.
And they don't like it.
Well this is Eve Online! |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 16:41:01 -
[377] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:ooh its going to be exciting, just think of all the big fights you'll get into, has you salivating, am i right! I take it your definition of big fight is 40 dudes poking at each other in shitfit T1 hulls, as that's about all you get when you actually invade anyone who isn't The Imperium, unfortunately. I assure you, our sigs have tried, and the shows of resistance are sad at best, and outright pathetic at worst. "Something something muh killboard efficiency. Stop feeding them kills guys. Srs, dock up and they'll go away in a couple of days." And they're right, we will, because seriously, **** node lasering. A non sov holding corp could dock up and do nothing but sov holders if they want their sov cannot. You choose to fight corps that can dock and wait because you dont really want a fight. You know sov holders cannot dock up and wait you so go find a sov holder and get your big fight. Oh yeah i forgot you have a non-agression pacts with most of the blue doughnut. So the problem again isnt you CANT find a big fight it is you CHOOSE not to. You missed my point. Sov holders absolutely can dock up and do nothing when we come poking for a fight. Why? Because node lasering is cancer, and a lot of us are not about to repeatedly subject ourselves to that garbage, fights be damned. About the only thing actually worth poking for a fight anymore is money moons. Even those are questionable, when you know the aggressors have no real intention of trying to hold the moons, due to location.
Let them do whatever and **** off in a couple of days, then patch everything back up. If Fozziesov had've been a thing when PL curb stomped BNI out of their own space for refusing to fight, Brave would likely still be in Catch. That assumes they had enough people willing to put up with node mining. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6504
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 16:43:59 -
[378] - Quote
Snowmann wrote:I agree that this new form of Sov introduced a new form a Sov warfare that the Super Cap heavy organizations are having issues countering. They want to force direct actions that they can escalate and return it to a form of warfare they have mastered during Dominion Sov. That's not it at all. We're perfectly happy for sov to be easier to take and even for unused sov to be basically free for the taking, but the way this has been set out is too far in the other direction. One guy is enough of a threat to sov to require a response. For a mechanic that is supposed to be alliance level that's just too far.
We're certainly not having issues countering. There's fits listed in this thread for ships that put an end to an interceptor's attempts at sov trolling pretty quickly and the only people we're losing sov to is ourselves. It's not difficult to counter, it's just boring to do so.
The problem with it being so easy is that it's not encouraging people to take sov, it's just encouraging people to contest it and evade, hence the term "whack-a mole sov". We certainly don't want to go back to the days of requiring a fleet of battleships a freighter and several days to take sov, but the commitment from the attacker should be at a level that most attacks on sov are serious attempts to take it. That would create real conflict which is what nullsec needs most.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
325
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 16:49:20 -
[379] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Eli Stan wrote:By my count, a sixth alliance has made a claim to a system in the Yrton constellation.
SpaceMonkey's Alliance Quantum Collective (Technically, IIRC, SMA gave the systems to these guys just before Aegis Sov hit.) Notoriously Incompetent. V.e.G.A. Mercenary Coalition Boys without pants
Now up to TCUs from seven different alliances since Aegis implementation. OSS, the alliance of Black Omega Security, has put down a TCU. Small alliance Boys without pants (SLIP) had a run-in with BL, I see, and lost a few Mallers and Augorors.
The back-and-forth continues in Yrton. VEGA is back to just a single sov system after having as many as five. MC is up to three, while BOS and SLIP each retain their single system.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
389
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Posted - 2015.08.06 16:55:20 -
[380] - Quote
Falin Whalen wrote:Icycle wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I love PvP, I just don't consider chasing a cheap ship designed for evasion to be PvP. It's boring, and if you do catch him there no real loss. For me, combat needs to be about commitment. Fozziesov lacks that.
lol since when ceptors are evasion of pvp? Are you mad? What does the class name says. INTERCEPTOR. Its for interception and tackling which all is pvp. It does not say Rookie ship or Transport ship. I was in a entosis ship the other day. What you call a "troll ceptor". I had an entosis link and I was tackling. If you dont concider that pvp, I dont know what is. Just cos you got some kind of mis concepted notion of what pvp is, you cant blast this non sence. Being quick enough to catch other ships and tackle them, also makes them quick enough to run away. I propose we call them FLEE-TORS as it suits what you are doing now with the hull. All you are doing is the equivalent of going up to someones door and ringing the bell, and running away when you hear them get up to answer the door. To you it's hilarious, and since you are quick you can do that to everybody in the neighborhood, to the people having to constantly get up and reset the door bell it's annoying. If you were ringing the bell for a bit if fisticuffs you would stay, but you aren't and it's annoying.
Goal of fozziesov: little used space will be tough (annoying) to hold, this is your problem you are fighting fozziesov rather than adapting to its tenants.
You know where other sov holders are that have a lot of ISK at stake in their sov holdings, you know that if you went to war with them you could be in a big fight in days. The problem is that all the big boys have non agression pacts hence you have CHOSEN not to fight and you come here claiming you cannot find big battles, you cannot find big battles only because you wont not because any game mechanic stops you.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6504
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Posted - 2015.08.06 16:59:00 -
[381] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Goal of fozziesov: little used space will be tough (annoying) to hold, this is your problem you are fighting fozziesov rather than adapting to its tenants. Except of course that the vast majority of us are talking about space we live in, not "little used space". Even if I'm sitting in a system in a PvP capable ship and a trollceptor comes in to mine a structure, it's still dull to have to go chase off someone who has no interest in taking the space
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1036
|
Posted - 2015.08.06 17:13:02 -
[382] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Falin Whalen wrote:Icycle wrote:Lucas Kell wrote: I love PvP, I just don't consider chasing a cheap ship designed for evasion to be PvP. It's boring, and if you do catch him there no real loss. For me, combat needs to be about commitment. Fozziesov lacks that.
lol since when ceptors are evasion of pvp? Are you mad? What does the class name says. INTERCEPTOR. Its for interception and tackling which all is pvp. It does not say Rookie ship or Transport ship. I was in a entosis ship the other day. What you call a "troll ceptor". I had an entosis link and I was tackling. If you dont concider that pvp, I dont know what is. Just cos you got some kind of mis concepted notion of what pvp is, you cant blast this non sence. Being quick enough to catch other ships and tackle them, also makes them quick enough to run away. I propose we call them FLEE-TORS as it suits what you are doing now with the hull. All you are doing is the equivalent of going up to someones door and ringing the bell, and running away when you hear them get up to answer the door. To you it's hilarious, and since you are quick you can do that to everybody in the neighborhood, to the people having to constantly get up and reset the door bell it's annoying. If you were ringing the bell for a bit if fisticuffs you would stay, but you aren't and it's annoying. Goal of fozziesov: little used space will be tough (annoying) to hold, this is your problem you are fighting fozziesov rather than adapting to its tenants. You know where other sov holders are that have a lot of ISK at stake in their sov holdings, you know that if you went to war with them you could be in a big fight in days. The problem is that all the big boys have non agression pacts hence you have CHOSEN not to fight and you come here claiming you cannot find big battles, you cannot find big battles only because you wont not because any game mechanic stops you. The fact that you seem to think that we should reset everyone and poke fights because ~reasons~ proves that Fozziesov isn't doing what it was intended to do. If anything, it's given us more reason to stay exactly the way we are. Until someone with a bad attitude and bigger spacewang pops up, the new mechanics will continue to change the same amount of things it's changed so far: nothing, except to allow randoms to be annoying for a few minutes.
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Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
391
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Posted - 2015.08.06 17:32:47 -
[383] - Quote
Damien Power wrote:I hate the Fossisov stuff.. I left nullsec because 1) the vulnerable times. Nothing really happens until the timer that was set begins but like mentioned before you get mostly trolls just being annoying and not really creating content.
Hardly anyone is active except a couple guys who are ratting/mining just to increase the timer.
And when I say active I'm talking about people who actually undock! Not have 30 to 80 online sitting in station because they logged in and went to work just to appear online and active.
You harldy have any big opps or even small opps in this case. Yea I can fly around hoping to find someone trolling your area But that's boring!
I trained all my accounts to fly cap ships and now they don't even get used now! Mostly because you see a system being entosed I guess you can say that Lol you fly to check the system And like mentioned before they run away! It's hard to get people to want to roam in small fleets because the chances are high that all you will find is a ceptor or a tech1 destroyer and occasionally a small camp with a bubble maybe 2 to 3 guys at most. But those guys are only looking for single pilots to gank who aren't immune to bubbles.
All in all its boring .
Does anyone in nullsec know that entrenched sov holders WILL come and defend their holdings?
It seems that none of you do because instead of leaving enough people behind to protect your holdings and finding another vested sov holder to fight you instead just whine falsely on the forums that you CANNOT find anyone to fight.
You could CHOOSE to use fozziesov and entoss another nullsec sov holder. You could CHOOSE to fight said sov holder when the must defend against your entossing and get into trillions ISK worth of ship carnage. In short, you could USE rather than fight AGAINST fozziesov to get into large scale fights easier than ever before.
But those pesky non agression pacts keep getting in the way, if only CCP would remove that game mechanic that forces you to make non agression pacts, then think of all the big fights you could be getting into, damn you CCP!
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Salvos Rhoska
1212
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Posted - 2015.08.06 17:53:20 -
[384] - Quote
Snowmann wrote:If they were to take their own medicine, they would realize they are not supposed to be safe anywhere in Eve Online.
HALLELUJAH!
Let us always remember the Golden Rules.
*pops champagne*
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Salvos Rhoska
1212
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:02:01 -
[385] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:One guy is enough of a threat to sov to require a response. For a mechanic that is supposed to be alliance level that's just too far.
So its too far for your alliance to respond to a one guy threat?
I mean for thousands of alts controlling most of known space, to have to drive off a single guy?
Thats terrible, man. I really feel for you. Let me console you with my worlds tiniest violin.
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Snowmann
Arrow Industries
13
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:09:24 -
[386] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Snowmann wrote:I agree that this new form of Sov introduced a new form a Sov warfare that the Super Cap heavy organizations are having issues countering. They want to force direct actions that they can escalate and return it to a form of warfare they have mastered during Dominion Sov. That's not it at all. We're perfectly happy for sov to be easier to take and even for unused sov to be basically free for the taking, but the way this has been set out is too far in the other direction. One guy is enough of a threat to sov to require a response. For a mechanic that is supposed to be alliance level that's just too far. We're certainly not having issues countering. There's fits listed in this thread for ships that put an end to an interceptor's attempts at sov trolling pretty quickly and the only people we're losing sov to is ourselves. It's not difficult to counter, it's just boring to do so. The problem with it being so easy is that it's not encouraging people to take sov, it's just encouraging people to contest it and evade, hence the term "whack-a-mole sov". We certainly don't want to go back to the days of requiring a fleet of battleships a freighter and several days to take sov, but the commitment from the attacker should be at a level that most attacks on sov are serious attempts to take it. That would create real conflict which is what nullsec needs most.
What you are talking about is asymmetrical, or guerrilla warfare. Attacking and not holding is the point of that type of warfare.
The fact that is boring and tedious for you is the point of that type of warfare. You are being attacked in ways that you would not prefer, again asymmetrical warfare.
Symmetrical warfare would mean you are attacked by similar forces in ways you prefer and are used to.
Hi Sec players have been attacked asymmetrically for years by many null/low sec groups forcing them to adjust.
It is interesting to see how the Null Sec power blocks are now reacting now that they can be asymmetrically attacked by sole players in a truly meaningful way they are forced to react to. |
Maldiro Selkurk
CHEMO IMMUNO RESISTANT VIRUS X
392
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:13:48 -
[387] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Maldiro Selkurk wrote:Goal of fozziesov: little used space will be tough (annoying) to hold, this is your problem you are fighting fozziesov rather than adapting to its tenants. Except of course that the vast majority of us are talking about space we live in, not "little used space". Even if I'm sitting in a system in a PvP capable ship and a trollceptor comes in to mine a structure, it's still dull to have to go chase off someone who has no interest in taking the space
I miner bump people that come to the system i mine in, do so for as many hours as need be to get back the system for myself. Have had some miners spend weeks in my system being bumped everytime i logged in to EVE. Eventually my will won out in every case. If you think that bumping a mining vessel hour after hour for weeks on end is fun give it a try. I put up with whatever i need to in order to defend what i consider mine, now HTFU and defend yours or gtfo of nullsec.
Yawn,-á I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12072
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:19:26 -
[388] - Quote
Snowmann wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Snowmann wrote:I agree that this new form of Sov introduced a new form a Sov warfare that the Super Cap heavy organizations are having issues countering. They want to force direct actions that they can escalate and return it to a form of warfare they have mastered during Dominion Sov. That's not it at all. We're perfectly happy for sov to be easier to take and even for unused sov to be basically free for the taking, but the way this has been set out is too far in the other direction. One guy is enough of a threat to sov to require a response. For a mechanic that is supposed to be alliance level that's just too far. We're certainly not having issues countering. There's fits listed in this thread for ships that put an end to an interceptor's attempts at sov trolling pretty quickly and the only people we're losing sov to is ourselves. It's not difficult to counter, it's just boring to do so. The problem with it being so easy is that it's not encouraging people to take sov, it's just encouraging people to contest it and evade, hence the term "whack-a-mole sov". We certainly don't want to go back to the days of requiring a fleet of battleships a freighter and several days to take sov, but the commitment from the attacker should be at a level that most attacks on sov are serious attempts to take it. That would create real conflict which is what nullsec needs most. What you are talking about is asymmetrical, or guerrilla warfare. Attacking and not holding is the point of that type of warfare. The fact that is boring and tedious for you is the point of that type of warfare. You are being attacked in ways that you would not prefer, again asymmetrical warfare. Symmetrical warfare would mean you are attacked by similar forces in ways you prefer and are used to. Hi Sec players have been attacked asymmetrically for years by many null/low sec groups forcing them to adjust. It is interesting to see how the Null Sec power blocks are now reacting now that they can be asymmetrically attacked by sole players in a truly meaningful way they are forced to react to.
What you ans others aren't getting is that we all understand that. We go out all the time during out vulnerability window and kill of little buggers who have no intention other than to ring a door bell. We do it all the time. We can do it forever. We WILL do it forever to protect our space.
Or at least till people start refusing to even log in because that kind of thing is boring. Easy killboard padding victory over people who don't care if they lose ships or take space is boring. Watching ALL of us in Sov null (not just Goons) create the fortresses that no one can take because trying would be more maddening that killing all those POSes in pre-dominion Sov.
We (some of us anyways) tried to explain this to you types and CCP 6 years ago before Dominion*. You didn't listen and the whole game suffered. you (and ccp) aren't listening again while 'we' have already figured out how to game the system to max effect (SELF-HARDENING RENTAL EMPIRES ARE SPROUTING UP, can't you all see that?). Again.
This is why history repeats itself, people aren't capable of listening to the people they should. Hopefully it won't take 6 years this time....
*Funny side note, the people who supported Dominion were the same kind of people defending this new system. I called them the 'disenfranchised optimists', they were the anti-big group (and BoB/Goons/Old NC/Drone Russians/Stainwagon) types who were SURE that Dominion was the cure, that 'now small groups will be in null!!. 6 years later not a one of them has admitted that they were wrong. |
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
826
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:22:43 -
[389] - Quote
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
A non sov holding corp could dock up and do nothing but sov holders if they want their sov cannot. You choose to ANNOY corps that can not dock and wait because you dont really want a fight. You know sov holders cannot dock up and wait you out so you go find a sov holder and ANNOY them rather tha fight. Oh yeah i forgot you hate people for working together for common goals. So the problem again isnt you CANT find sov to take it is you CHOOSE not to.
I fixed your post.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6506
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Posted - 2015.08.06 18:23:04 -
[390] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:So its too far for your alliance to respond to a one guy threat?
I mean for thousands of alts controlling most of known space, to have to drive off a single guy? It's too low a bar to be a threat. Having to chase disposable ships around while they evade is not fun. They have no interest in taking sov, just wasting time. The mechanic currently supports that and it's dumb that it does. I get that you're either a terrible troll or you legitimately don't think games should be fun, but the mechanic isn't creating conflict, because after chasing frigates all day, who really wants to go mine structures?
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