Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 33 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Azarath NazGhoul
The Scope Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 13:58:31 -
[781] - Quote
ItGÇÖs horrible for empire builders and we(i) said so before, everyone who played in NULL could predict the outcome of this.
I believe this work well for people who donGÇÖt want to work to create/maintain alliances, this system give them an option to go out and harass the big guys without committing anything (captors) But even for them this is just a short term thing. If the big guys would give up the space (as some seem to be so keen on) what would be left then? For us Vets the system is pointless, our high skilled characters are no use, we have to play 24/7 just to GÇ£notGÇ¥ fight and we cant even launch an major deployment since we have to stay close to our systems.
CCP once again seem to have lost direction again, it seems like design decision is made for a game they donGÇÖt have.
|
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
67
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 13:58:33 -
[782] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:When were you in SMA, did you leave to join moa's crusade?
A few months ago. I'm in WHs now. I was tired of being an afk ratter/F1 monkey carebear (ie, the only thing sov null is good for) |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6780
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 14:25:07 -
[783] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:When were you in SMA, did you leave to join moa's crusade? A few months ago. I'm in WHs now. I was tired of being an afk ratter/F1 monkey carebear (ie, the only thing sov null is good for) I think SMA transferred some sov to us, so they're not holding empty spaces anymore.
Also, now it is not only ratting but also mining.
Also, 2fast2furious ceptorwar, no longer F1. So perhaps you should return and get a sov laser ready
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Syn Shi
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
182
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 14:29:44 -
[784] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:This is based on my alliance's experience in Vale of the Silent. Aegis Sov requires tedious PVE grinding. It requires the defenders to stand post for hours in order to respond to someone who will most likely run away and avoid a fight, if you actually respond. The balance is off, since the offense does not really have to commit anything to the fight in order to threaten space.
Grinding up defense indexes is a tedious activity. Eve players consistently complain about the boring monotony of running anomalies and mining for hours on end, but that is exactly what Aegis Sov requires. My alliance now has mandatory fleets for ratting and mining. This has been very bad for morale and has resulted in decreased numbers in corp chat and on comms. Part of this may be bitter vets being perverse: some of the same people who refuse to join mandatory ratting or mining fleets are the same folks who complained about mandatory structure grinding fleets in the past.
Actual fighting under Aegis Sov thus far has been limited to the normal small gang skirmishes against the usual suspects (e.g. good PVPers like Chessur visiting through wormholes). These are the same fights we would have had before. Almost none of these fights were caused by Entosis, or even the threat of Entosis. We would have gone out to fight these people anyway, because home defense fleets are fun.
There has also been a certain amount of chasing away trollceptors - who are not looking to get into a fight or even provoke a fight. They burn off at a high rate of speed as soon as you respond.
In one case, someone did actually Entosis something to the point that nodes spawned. No fight came of this, since the hostiles never came back. It just turned into a waste of time as we went around looking for the nodes and turning them off without any opposition.
If someone made a real push for another person's space, brute force and numbers would win the day. Aegis Sov comes down to knowledge of game mechanics and N+1, just as with Dominion Sov. I do not really have a problem with that.
In a fight between two evenly-matched groups, however, content denial is still the best strategy for contesting sovereignty (just as it was with Dominion Sov). Repeated harassment, followed by blue-balling, followed my more harassment, until they just stop logging in is the order of the day. Harass the defenders by using an Entosis link somewhere in their space. In an Interceptor, you can have an alt do this while you do something else. If they respond, burn off at high speed. You literally cannot lose your interceptor if you are paying attention. If they do not respond, then you just caused them an obnoxious number of nodes to spawn. They are forced to commit several times the effort now, or risk losing something nice. If you give them the satisfaction of a fight, you are doing it wrong.
That is why I believe Aegis Sov is a failure thus far, because it does not lead to more fights.
Grinding up defense indexes is a tedious activity. Eve players consistently complain about the boring monotony of running anomalies and mining for hours on end, but that is exactly what Aegis Sov requires. My alliance now has mandatory fleets for ratting and mining.
Or you could interact with those types that like that sort of thing and come to an agreement that they do said activities and you provide the pew pew if/when others come to shoot them.
Cant blame CCP for your unwillingness to adapt.
And CCP cannot do anything to stop pvp'rs running from fights where they may incur a loss.
One thing I have learned about Eve. Allot of pvp'rs talk about being willing to pvp. But they leave out the part about only doing it when the win is 100% in their favor.
|
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
67
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 14:50:48 -
[785] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: I think SMA transferred some sov to us, so they're not holding empty spaces anymore.
Also, now it is not only ratting but also mining.
Also, 2fast2furious ceptorwar, no longer F1. So perhaps you should return and get a sov laser ready
Transferring sov to someone you are set blue to hardly counts as giving up space. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1116
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 15:15:34 -
[786] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote: I think SMA transferred some sov to us, so they're not holding empty spaces anymore.
Also, now it is not only ratting but also mining.
Also, 2fast2furious ceptorwar, no longer F1. So perhaps you should return and get a sov laser ready
Transferring sov to someone you are set blue to hardly counts as giving up space. Sure it does. It means I don't get those obnoxious notifications for those systems anymore. |
Cien Banchiere
Extrinsic Arcadia Distribution
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 15:38:38 -
[787] - Quote
I can say that it's been the least active month and a half. I know the changes are still in development and the new structures will change the quality of life, probably, but our alliance half dropped to half its numbers. There are other reasons involved with that but they are still dropping. We rent and have only seen a few roaming gangs since early July. It's not terrible, and working to keep your sov is fine. I feel like everyone is looking at the short term and not what the long term changes will happen with all the adjustments to sov.
|
Pebble cruncher
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 17:17:59 -
[788] - Quote
Outside of the little buzz of the first week, it is now very quiet.
As others mention there is now more attention put into grinding indexes to limit trolls and really avoid dealing with defense node hunt. With tweaking that part could be more bearable.
Defenders - Raising the indexes needs relaxing. Industry first. Add PI activity or simply cut back the m3 requirements to put them at par with military. - Index does not maintain themselves very long. Say you would want to raise your ADM to 6 for a long weekend in another region to pew, you might currently come back with a much affected ADM. The higher it is, the longer it could take to go back down. So there is an added bonus in getting it to 6.
Attackers - Some might have fun trolling but where are the fights? - Majority of fights are from "classic" sources (normal roam, WH)
If I summarize my experience and thoughts on the future (even if we get tweaks); 1- Grind indexes to make the new sov system somewhat bearable. 2- Work everyday to keep them up or else the trollcepter under the bed will get you. 3- Seems to be limited inclination to relax fatigue... maybe on JB but whatch out for the unbearable power projection. 4- We wish that you do all your activities and stay in null but we will allow people to destroy your bases... but it's easy if you want to address that, simply spread your stuff all over, seed multiple citadels, keep only 2-3 ships and the rest in ISK. Basically live in your suitcases.
Ohh you can leave the house and enjoy yourself..... no not really.
Nullsec quality of life is being reduced every change I see and all I hear is CCP saying it's exactly what they designed. If it would at least generate more fights I would be fine with it cause we would get pew... But no. it's more work and less fun.
I want an equation that increases the fun factor. The answer cannot be; go live in lowsec if you don't like where it's going. At one point you will find nobody willing to live in nullsec. What then? I hope we don't have to reach that point cause I genuingly love this game...
|
Sonya Corvinus
Grant Village
69
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 22:23:01 -
[789] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote: Sure it does. It means I don't get those obnoxious notifications for those systems anymore.
http://i.imgur.com/qE8ynuT.gifv |
Kieron VonDeux
64
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 04:13:40 -
[790] - Quote
Artistul wrote:It was "Let's blow some sh*t up !"
Now it's "Let's run around like headless chickens"
Destruction turned into Tom & Jerry chasing. It's just sad.
Too many complained about the HP grind and Super Cap dominance in Dominion Sov. Well, you can't please everyone can you.
I think more complained about Dominion Sov than are complaining Aegis Sov though.
I still remember all the focus groups at the last several Fan Fests complaining about Dom Sov. One of the biggest issues was the focus on Supers.
Well they don't matter so much in Sov warfare now do they.
It is interesting that its a vocal few that are complaining so much about Aegis Sov. |
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6788
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 05:43:41 -
[791] - Quote
It's always about the structures
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4078
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 10:04:08 -
[792] - Quote
Just 2 ideas, FWIW:
1. Most annoying thing about trollceptors seems to be that while they're easily countered, they're hard to kill. Chasing them off is way less fun than blapping them. Biggest issue seems not their speed while on-grid (many ships can go 4-5 km/s or more), but them being uncatchable (fast align + bubble immunity) once they're able to warp off. So yeah, making entosis links unfittable on interdiction-nullified ships makes sense. Near-zero risk trolling seems off. You should at least be able to catch and kill un-tanked frigates by camping gates...
2. Defending (un-entosing) seems a boring chore. So make it easier and worthwhile:
- Any ship of defending alliance can un-entose without needing an entosis link. If anyone's close by, just get in range of the thing being attacked and it works. Limited just to the first attack, not the capture event. If this makes it too easy to defend, tweak things to re-balance (e.g. decreasing the time for the attacker vs. the defender)
- Defending gives you loyalty points. Player-alliance loyalty points. Each alliance can decide what you get in exchange for these LPs (ISK being the easiest reward).
Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works. In FW, everybody can easily give a hand in defending systems (out of main system battles) because they just need to spend some time in whatever ship they're in at the moment (PVP's slow today? ok, I'll de-plex a bit while I'm waiting for fights) and they get a reward for doing so.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
|
Kieron VonDeux
64
|
Posted - 2015.08.15 23:53:51 -
[793] - Quote
If is too hard to have single players Entosis Sov in defense or a group of players Entosis Command Nodes due to a failed defense, you might be trying to hold too much space.
If only POS repping had been so easy after a successful defense.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6788
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 04:26:46 -
[794] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works. Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Kieron VonDeux
65
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 05:59:01 -
[795] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works. Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov
I must say though, whether this version of Sov being considered troll-able or not...
The Goons who many considered the kings of trolling are now crying about being trolled...
Classic |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6788
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 06:28:51 -
[796] - Quote
Uh huh.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Zimmy Zeta
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
59311
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 07:16:06 -
[797] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Uh huh ______________________________________________________ ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears. .
Your signature fits so perfectly right now Maybe you should add "sov" to the list.
I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it.
Yes, I do feel bad about it.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6790
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 07:17:31 -
[798] - Quote
Righto, and done.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap, lasersov)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers.
|
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
6568
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 13:45:55 -
[799] - Quote
Sonya Corvinus wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:We can defend our systems. As we've said time after time (after time) after time, the mechanics to contest sov are boring. We know it, you know it, even CCP knows it (go read reddit, they are responding more there). It has nothing to do with undefended sov, mining structures just simply isn't good gameplay.
And no, not working as intended. Failing the #1 goal of the mechanic is not "working as intended". Lucas, I've been in SMA. There are many, many (many) systems that are 100% uninhabited. You can't defend your systems at all. Shrink so that you only live in the systems you can defend and it won't be boring. How many systems do you have with less than five active daily PvP pilots? Looking for an exact number here. Of course we can, that's why we're not losing our systems. Defending is easy, it's boring, but it's easy. And every alliance has systems they don't constantly inhabit, they're called pipe systems and they generally suck.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Chrysus Industries - Savings made simple!
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6792
|
Posted - 2015.08.16 14:05:26 -
[800] - Quote
But don't forget that moa is dismantling us from ~Fortress 5Z~
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap, lasersov)) tears.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall. If only there was another coalition that existed to destroy them, or more legions to be paid off, or more ceptors.
|
|
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
775
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 04:57:34 -
[801] - Quote
Kieron VonDeux wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works. Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov I must say though, whether this version of Sov being considered troll-able or not... The Goons who many considered the kings of trolling are now crying about being trolled... Classic
Think of it like this:
In FW if someone captures a plex we need to capture one plex to get back to square one. This is in the same system so it's basically a 1:1 ratio. Also the attacking party has a small DPS check they have to overcome to even run down the timer so the defenders have an advantage.
Not so in fozzie sov. One successful entosis link will spawn TEN nodes that also has the same amount of time required to recapture as the original node spread all over an entire ******* constellation.
That's like the equivalent of capturing fortress systems like Eha and Nisuwa by plexing Raihbaka and Iwosoda respectively.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6796
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 06:15:03 -
[802] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Kieron VonDeux wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works. Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov I must say though, whether this version of Sov being considered troll-able or not... The Goons who many considered the kings of trolling are now crying about being trolled... Classic Think of it like this: In FW if someone captures a plex we need to capture one plex to get back to square one. This is in the same system so it's basically a 1:1 ratio. Also the attacking party has a small DPS check they have to overcome to even run down the timer so the defenders have an advantage. Not so in fozzie sov. One successful entosis link will spawn TEN nodes that also has the same amount of time required to recapture as the original node spread all over an entire ******* constellation. That's like the equivalent of capturing fortress systems like Eha and Nisuwa by plexing Raihbaka and Iwosoda respectively.
That's why I said that Fweddit was going to end up having to take leadership in these times of Factional Sov
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap, lasersov)) tears.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall. If only there was another coalition that existed to destroy them, or more legions to be paid off, or more ceptors.
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6796
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 06:17:25 -
[803] - Quote
It's basically like this:
You fight, op success You don't fight, op success You just warp off, op success
You like it, op success You don't like it, op also success
You get forced to mine, op success You don't mine, op success as well
Troll/be trolled, op success
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap, lasersov)) tears.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall. If only there was another coalition that existed to destroy them, or more legions to be paid off, or more ceptors.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1244
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 10:16:27 -
[804] - Quote
Ive come around to agreeing the Entosis module needs changing. Simplest solution is hard ship class restrictions, second are PG/ CPU/skill restrictions, third and most complicated is a new Entosis specific range of ships, fourth an aggregate of all the above where the efficacy of the link is dependant with all the above.
Parallel changes would be requiring more (numerous and/or efficient) links as a threshold to surpass equivalence to the defence index.
I dont think the interceptor ship class was ever designed or intended for this purpose, with its specific peculiarities. Its arguable whether this is now as intended, because its expected CCP was readily informed by the community beforehand this would happen, but went ahead with it anyways.
One of the stated goals, was making it possible for just about anyone to conflict sov. Inline with this, it means a single player can now challenge sov. Though the intent is interesting, in practice I think its a bit unfair and lowers the bar too far in terms of commitment. It enables any single independant player too far considering how many people that disables in the system in question. The "trolling" aspect comes into effect here, when one player can disrupt the equilibrium of a larger group, with little to no risk to himself. (Which concretely represents what trolling is in any community).
I dont think 1 ship should be enough to do this, unless as in option 3, its a specific Entosis ship class, or as in options 1-2 the ship class is reasonably vulnerable in its invasion attempt. Especially not in a single class of ship which really already has other design specific functions (interceptor) and is effectively immune to reprisal.
The core irony here being that its exactly the interceptor class itself which should be ideal for engaging an Entosing aggressor, rather than vice versa as is now the case. Enganging and tackling an aggressor is what an interceptor does. Its a paradox that an interceptor is in and of itself now effectively un-interceptable as an entosis link.
See what I mean?
Opinions, bias, enlightened self-interest aside, it just doesnt make sense on an objective level, that a ship class designed for intercepting can now utilise those same capacities to be uninterceptable (except as to force it off), while doing something (Entosing) that has nothing to do with its intercepting impetus
------------
|
Seth Kanan
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
9
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 11:10:19 -
[805] - Quote
What i have seen so far the only thing trolling are some big coalitions on the forums and on reddit. The interceptors are no problem at all and easily manageable. From my experience the sovspace is changing a lot in a good way and fighting for sov got thousand times more interesting. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6800
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 11:47:16 -
[806] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Ideally, Id like to see a range of Entosis specific class ships, which then form the foothold and "flag carriers" of an invasion attempt, with all the peculiar, diverse and specific ship traits for each race alongside that. This ofc is time consuming, expensive and rife with balance issues. So CCP, expediently, instead went with a generalisation of the module. But this has resulted, as I tried to outline above, in a perversion and abberation of the interceptor classes existing capacity and function (whether intended or not).
See what I mean? Tears, right?
A forum alt of some major nullsec alliance
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap, lasersov)) tears.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall. If only there was another coalition that existed to destroy them, or more legions to be paid off, or more ceptors.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1245
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 12:29:22 -
[807] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Tears, right?
A forum alt of some major nullsec alliance
I think most major nullsec alliances wouldn't touch me with a 10km pole for various reasons... Sometimes I regret using this toon to express my unpopular opinions, as its probably gonna bite me in the ass hard somewhere down the line, but its too late to change that. Reputations linger in EVE, and I hope I have not soured mine entirely.
I try to be as objective and fair as possible, as I see it.
Sincerely, my position is not against any power bloc, just towards promoting better discussion and a better game for everyone.
As I hope was the case here. Ive changes position on trollceptors after more thought, particularly after I hit upon considering the quintessential baseline of what this ship class is intended for, which I think wasnt represented or argued specifically before in this thread.
Interceptors were not designed or intended for this. I think just about everyone can agree on that for how that fact stands.
------------
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6800
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 12:44:44 -
[808] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:As I hope was the case here. Ive changes position on trollceptors after more thought, particularly after I hit upon considering the quintessential baseline of what this ship class is intended for, which I think wasnt represented or argued specifically before in this thread.
Interceptors were not designed or intended for this. I think just about everyone can agree on that for how that fact stands. Well it seems like ceptors were designed to be the go-to, all-terrain pvp platform for a post-fatigue environment.
High warp speed, interdiction nullification, high-speed etc.
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap, lasersov)) tears.
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall. If only there was another coalition that existed to destroy them, or more legions to be paid off, or more ceptors.
|
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
464
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 13:00:55 -
[809] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:But don't forget that moa is dismantling us from ~Fortress 5Z~ I love that the most powerful coalition in Eve has basically been forced to resort to turtling in a little corner of the map.
Where's the 'We're gonna take the whole of sovnull" ethos gone?
but what would I know, I'm just a salvager
|
Salvos Rhoska
1245
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 13:23:29 -
[810] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Well it seems like ceptors were designed to be the go-to, all-terrain pvp platform for a post-fatigue environment.
High warp speed, interdiction nullification, high-speed etc.
Yes. And those were all fine.
But not in terms of an entosis link carrier.
Did I not make that clear in meticulous and specific detail above, or should I really have to c&p what Ive already said allmover again?
------------
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 .. 33 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |