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Voltaire Aubrey
Harikiri Seppuko
0
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Posted - 2015.07.31 16:56:40 -
[1] - Quote
Good afternoon all,
I have just come back to EVE from a long break and I want to convert this character from a miner to a PVE mission type character. Some advice I was given a long time ago was to aim for vessels like the drake and its larger caldari missile boat relatives due to their passive tanking potential and the fact that their weapon system is both powerful and does not really drain the capacitor either.
HOWEVER, there are 2 mitigating factors for me.
1-I had previously been training up the amarr vessels previously and was on the verge of flying a BC class amarr vessel,so I do already have skill points invested in the amarr branches of up to and including amarr BC, as well as various laser weapon skills.
2-The Abaddon has always been my favourite looking EVE ship!
So, is the amarr "branch" of ships really competitive for solo mission running compared to caldari vessels? And, for that matter, was the advice I was given about the drake still viable? |
Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
68
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Posted - 2015.07.31 17:16:07 -
[2] - Quote
You will likely have capacitor issues using the Abaddon in PVE since it has no cap bonus. Apocalypse is a better choice. Other options to consider would be the Navy battleships or the Nightmare - which is half the price it was at the beginning of the year - currently selling for 429 mil in Jita |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
771
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Posted - 2015.07.31 18:00:20 -
[3] - Quote
Since already have Amarr skills, why don't you train laser turrets and fly a Nightmare instead. Does missions and other things just fine.
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Voltaire Aubrey
Harikiri Seppuko
0
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Posted - 2015.07.31 18:37:17 -
[4] - Quote
Well i do have some missile skills as wel (came back briefly about... a year ago to try out those new T1 destroyers and used the caldari destroyer for a while) but its just a case of querying whether the Drake and follow-up Caldari BS'class vessels with their missiles and shield tanking are a better choice than amarr lasers and their armour tanking? |
Gh0stBust3rs
Wraith Shadow Guards
92
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Posted - 2015.07.31 19:55:26 -
[5] - Quote
Paladins are pretty fun to fly. Even with the **** damage profile I still get decent mission times. Something abut 1k dps. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1532
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Posted - 2015.07.31 20:04:15 -
[6] - Quote
That depends on the space you fly in and the type of rats. Lasers are EM/Therm damage locked while missiles can do any damage type. Amarr ships will have the advantage against Sansha/BR rats making them better in Amarr space. Drakes tend to be rather slow on level 4's in my experience as well. Personally I'd agree with the idea of sticking to 3's till you can comfortably use either race of BS. |
Voltaire Aubrey
Harikiri Seppuko
0
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Posted - 2015.07.31 20:13:22 -
[7] - Quote
Oh I'm in no rush to get to lol 4's yet, I just don't want to waste time training up e.g lasers weapon systems and their supporting systems if e.g. It's better to use missiles and e.g. Armour systems if it's better to go with shields... So I will be happy to potter around in a caldari cruiser for a while, then BC before hitting the BS class vessel. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
360
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Posted - 2015.07.31 21:53:34 -
[8] - Quote
I have tried out both an Apocalypse and a Abaddon with max skills, and the Apocalypse was most definately preferable because the Apoc has more cap. |
Do Little
Red Frog Freight Red-Frog
68
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Posted - 2015.07.31 23:00:15 -
[9] - Quote
I don't think it should be a question of which is best - that will be a moving target - but which do you enjoy. I trained missiles and drones which led me to a Rattlesnake for my mission ship but it never really felt comfortable. A few months ago I bought a Gila - that ship fit me perfectly - it's a joy to fly and can run a level 4 mission as quickly and safely as most battleships. Try running level 2 missions in a Worm if you think you might enjoy that path. |
Voltaire Aubrey
Harikiri Seppuko
0
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Posted - 2015.08.01 08:19:13 -
[10] - Quote
Ok thank you for all the advice people, I do have one final question though...
The tier 3 cruisers like the Tengu.... Are they of any use for mission running or are they meant for things such as PVP and support of fleets in wormholes etc? |
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
11939
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Posted - 2015.08.01 15:11:10 -
[11] - Quote
Ty is right about the ship bonus stuff though. It more depends on where you want to run missions. Also there is potential faction hits to consider, though you can reject those missions yet wait on the clock to try another with that npc. Like my mission runner cant get into gal or min empire space w/o being chased.
Sure, t3's can do missions, but maybe not allowed in some low level missions if I remember right. It's been a couple years since I bothered with a T3 for missions.
I'm in it for the money
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Kitty Bear
Disturbed Friends Of Diazepam Disturbed Acquaintance
1505
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Posted - 2015.08.01 15:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nightmare will also give you an opt in for Incursions in addition to missioning options. shiny-fit isn't really required, T2 does a good job (and attracts less attention)
just as something else to consider. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
358
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Posted - 2015.08.02 04:44:55 -
[13] - Quote
Hi,
You should consider to cross train amarr/caldari SC skills, which allows you tl fly Sansha vessels & Phantasm/Nightmare. Having those you could run missions easily and focus on training for missiles so , later on you could use Tengu which is one of the best mission runners. |
Ahed Sten
71
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Posted - 2015.08.02 04:55:06 -
[14] - Quote
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:Paladins are pretty fun to fly. Even with the **** damage profile I still get decent mission times. Something about 1k dps at 80km.
FTFY
And there's nothing wrong with EM/Therm dps if you're harvesting sanshas or bloods. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
774
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Posted - 2015.08.02 10:23:22 -
[15] - Quote
Voltaire Aubrey wrote:Ok thank you for all the advice people, I do have one final question though...
The tier 3 cruisers like the Tengu.... Are they of any use for mission running or are they meant for things such as PVP and support of fleets in wormholes etc?
Let me put it this way, those came in Apocrypha and with it came wormholes. It would be safe to assume they were made for the dangers that you face in wormholes.
So yes, they are excellent in any kind of pve, maybe not incursions but the rest.
Oh and the Sansha ships are shield boats too. When you fly a Phantasm for the first time and do a level 3 mission with her you might never want to fly any other laser boat.
For the Sansha ships I strongly advise to read the traits tab for fitting advice and you might want to use heavy beams for mission for long(er) range damage projection.
The Apocalypse is an awesome level 4 mission boat and the range bonus with mega beams you can use standard crystal for long ranges which saves you capacitor and when things get too sketchy you may want to mjd out of range for a bit.
By the way, I did run the DED 4/10 Blood Raider Monastary four times now with the Phantasm and even they heavy neuting wasn't a big deal.
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Voltaire Aubrey
Harikiri Seppuko
0
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Posted - 2015.08.02 15:08:48 -
[16] - Quote
I must admit I am a bit surprised about the lack of support there end to be for missile boats and the overwhelming support for laser boats (nightmare in particular!)
Are laser boats and this nightmare specifically so much better than missiles and their missile boat equivalents? |
elitatwo
Eve Minions Poopstain Removal Team
774
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Posted - 2015.08.02 19:34:27 -
[17] - Quote
First, I am Caldari and I started in 2006 when missiles were good and able to apply damage.
A pilot in an alliance call Band of Developers was ganked in a Raven with torpedos. In November 2006 all missiles were nerfed so much that this could never happen again.
That and you said Amarr ships so we assumed you trained lasers and not hybrid turrets, which are also fine, at least the medium ones. Small and large railguns kinda lack a little.
Anyhow, missiles can be okay-ish for pve but you will need tons of them for shooting one target, where lasers can remove smaller targets with one cycle.
And since they are pirate faction ships they are the top of the foodchain.
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Voltaire Aubrey
Harikiri Seppuko
0
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Posted - 2015.08.02 20:33:05 -
[18] - Quote
awww,
I must admit in a way I am a bit dissapointed because i quite liked missiles, however, looking at the masteries I AM closer to lvl 3+ on the Amarr BC's and above than the Caldari vessels so I suppose i had better re-vamp the training queue to target an Amarr Harbinger before moving onto the BS' quality vessels....
Or is Oracle worth a go for simple PvE? (I must admit i quite like the idea of using large-sized lasers on a battlecruiser... however, i would assume that as a glass cannon it should only be used as part of a group?) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1533
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Posted - 2015.08.03 20:26:01 -
[19] - Quote
The Oracle is poorly suited for missioning IMHO, It's thin on tank and droneless making it possible to get into tight spots. It could be useful at range as an MJD kitter, but everything it could do there a Apoc/Napoc/Paladin could do better. At closer ranges the tracking bonus of a Nighmare along with it's considerably better fitting and defense would be preferable. Better still the Nightmare will still make use of your Caldari ship training. |
Mike Whiite
Geuzen Inc
393
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Posted - 2015.08.04 11:30:33 -
[20] - Quote
There is nothing wrong with PVE Missiles ships.
Tengu, Gila, Navy battleships, Golem Rattlesnake. Drake is fine for lvl 3 missions.
Missiles have some application problems, though to be honest that is a PvP problem. especially when talking Cruise missiles.
If you only have to shoot EM weak spots Lasers are probably better though when you move to other rats missiles will be better.
someone will probably bring up that it will be difficult to shoot frigates, this might prove a little difficult, though proper skills and drone support solve that problem.
Missiles will always hit (and in PVE never for 0 damage) at ranges beyond 150 km if needed.
There are plenty of problems with missiles though there is little wrong with them for running missions in high sec
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Boci
Ubiquitous Hurt The WeHurt Initiative
22
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Posted - 2015.08.04 13:10:34 -
[21] - Quote
From reading your comments thus far OP, you're existing training will not support this very well, but I personally find Projectiles to be my top choice for DPS applicator, and here is why.
People like missiles because it can match damage type to NPC weakness, however they have application problems, and in the case of battleship level stuff, to be very efficient you have to start counting volleys because of travel time being less than your rate of fire, otherwise you waste ammo.
Gallente drone boats (Domi, Myrm etc) can also select damage, but some NPCs like to eat your drones, so your flying a boat whose weapon system is destroyable. This can be mitigated by recalling etc as soon as you see NPC target them, but again, you lose time there.
Projectiles. Much like hybrids and lasers, projectile damage, if a given shot hits, is applied instantly. At the BS level, range is typically a non issue, as most pockets are smaller than 100km, and in the majority of cases everything spawns below 80km. Y ou can even one shot frigates in many cases as long as you engage them at range.
But why projectiles over the other two weapon systems? Damage selection. Projectiles, like missiles, have ammunition options that hit each damage type.
If you mission outside of Amarr space, you will likely end up with mission offers that have NPCs not specifically weak to Em/Therm, or Kin/Therm in the case of hybrids. This would result in subpar performance against that particular mission.
For example, if you are mission running in Minmatar space, you can see Angels (Explosive) Serpentis (Kinetic/Therm) Mordus (EM) Sansha (EM) and occasionally BR if you get Cargo Run for some reason (also EM)
So yea, I like projectiles :p damage selection and instant application.
All of that said, if you are deep in Amarr space, and only see BR/Sansha, then no reason to not use lasers and I too would recommend aiming for the Nightmare, eats those guys for breakfast.
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@BociSammiches
UHURT's Link Guy
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Voltaire Aubrey
Harikiri Seppuko
0
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Posted - 2015.08.04 16:50:18 -
[22] - Quote
Thank you for all the feedback everyone,
I think after a bit of looking into fitting out amarr vessels and whatnot that instead I am going to stick with my "gut" feeling of going with a missile dominated system so I'm training up for the drake mastery level 2 at the moment (only 7 days away) to hit level 3's and then another 50 days after that for mastery level 3... I think it's not just the missiles though but also that I prefer the idea of shields being the primary method of defence over armour!
I've also been eyeing up the new Mordu's Legion vessels and their combination of faster velocities and faster missiles seems to provide a nice combination of benefits for high sec mission running (I don't really like emphasis on drones that the Rattlesnake has as a higher tier battleship...)
Does anyone have any insight/feedback on the Mordu Legion vessels? Are they any good or is it a vessel to avoid and should I instead convert to the nightmare after I've sorted out shielding skills and got a bit more settled? |
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