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Dawson
Caldari British Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.04 21:41:00 -
[1]
So I was fitting my rohk and was hit with a stump. Fit 350's or 425's.
350's will be fraction of the price. Will give me better tracking, which means better excellent hits which means more damage? Worried about range I could take off some tank for the extra tracking enhancer.
425's more experinve but will give me better range with a tank and more damage. In theory.
Anyone played with the 2 setups, I would love to think 350s work if only for the price decrease. I have a feeling 425's will win hands down, but anyone tested it ?
Ambassador & Admiral |
Kate Darieux
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Posted - 2006.12.04 21:43:00 -
[2]
From what i heard so far, 350mm's really shine on the Rokh. You can still get insane range with them due to the bonus from the ship, and the added tracking more than makes up for the reduced damage. The less demanding fitting requirements also allow for a better setup.
Originally by: JeanPierre You need to examine Minmatar ships bro.
No kidding, I tried to Salvage one last night. Took me 20 cycles before the pilot convoed me and told me to stop it.
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.04 21:47:00 -
[3]
If the comparison between 125mm and 150mm rails, and 200mm with 250mm rails is analogous to 350mm and 425mm rails, then as far as I know 425mm rails are only marginally more powerful (less than 10%) than 350mm rails, meaning that their main advantage is the extra range they provide (71km vs. 54km is not negligible). If you don't really need the range, 350mm should serve you well and be cheaper and be easier to fit. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
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OBI WAN
Dark Knights of Deneb Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.12.04 21:51:00 -
[4]
Considering you should still be able to get around 40ish km range with Antimatter and Caldari Battleship 4 on the 350mm II's, I would use them for PvE/Missions. Not many NPCs orbit outside that range.
However for PvP, 425mm IIs are better due to much much longer range and the fact that single shot damage is more than the 350mm IIs, which is sometimes the only shot you can get in a fleet fight.
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LeMoose
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.04 22:00:00 -
[5]
its simple, the diffrence in the 350 and 425 t2's is not worth the cost unless uve got loads of isk
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Hephaesteus
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.04 22:13:00 -
[6]
Go with the 350's if I was you. 425's sound good in theory but take longer to kill cruiser, BC size of ships because of the tracking, and as someone else pointed out 425's will make it very hard to fit a ballanced loadout because of the fitting req's. -----------------------------------------------
Knowing all, when all is unknown.
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Atar
Perpetua Umbra Brotherhood Of Steel
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Posted - 2006.12.05 04:33:00 -
[7]
One more for the 350 group, work well so far for me!
Click ^^ for a large version! |
The Major
Caldari StateCorp
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Posted - 2006.12.05 10:47:00 -
[8]
I'm going with 350 II's because at BS 5, sharpshooter 5 I get over 50km with AM L which is more than enough for me.
425's are better and I'd rather have them but they aren't 150million isk better.
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Ciphero
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2006.12.05 11:52:00 -
[9]
Originally by: The Major I'm going with 350 II's because at BS 5, sharpshooter 5 I get over 50km with AM L which is more than enough for me.
What about Spike? |
Kazaam
Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.05 12:13:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Kazaam on 05/12/2006 12:19:11 As far as I tested, w/ Sharp V and Cald BS IV :
425 II w/Spike L + 3 tracking mods = 256 kms optimal 425 II w/Spike L = 181 kms optimal 425 II w/Antimatter L + 3 tracking mods = 71 kms optimal
The bold line means that you can actually stay with the fleet position and fitting a huge tank. I've tested with Active EM II + 2x Invul II, resists were around 80/86/78/70, along with a LSE II, putting the shield capacity to over 14k. However, having only AWU II currently, I had to fit 2x PDU II's to get the full rack fitted, but it's not really important as it improves the shield regeneration rate as well.
However, you could just take the first fitting option with the 3 tracking mods and give up the tank, and still hit at optimal 256kms, or swap a Tracking Enhancer II for a Magnetic Field Stab II and still hit at about 220ish optimal. _________________________________________
Originally by: Oveur EVE +NLINE - T+TALHELLDEAAATHHH !!
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The Major
Caldari StateCorp
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Posted - 2006.12.05 12:49:00 -
[11]
Edited by: The Major on 05/12/2006 12:51:39
Originally by: Ciphero
Originally by: The Major I'm going with 350 II's because at BS 5, sharpshooter 5 I get over 50km with AM L which is more than enough for me.
What about Spike?
I'm yet to do proper tests with Spike since I don't fly as many fleet battles anymore (Ironic considering I just got one of the best fleet battleships after being stuck in a Raven or Scorp for so long).
Pre-Patch it was theoretically capable of over 300km on a Rokh (with 425's). Considering there is the hard limit on lock range max at 250km that was fairly useless.
Also Spike L had it's damage nerfed as well as range so where before it was equivilent to firing Thorium L at people now it's closer to firing Iridium (I think, Damn you patch day stopping me checking the stats).
Iridium gets 20% to range anyway so with 350 II's I can get maybe 125km with that which is still sniping distance and doesn't cost 500isk a shot.
I think the important thing about the Rokh is that what takes Mega pilots 425mm Rails to achieve only takes a Rokh pilot 350's and they can STILL use Antimatter further out giving them more grid for tanking and no reliance on any engineering mods in the lows making it all damage/tracking.
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Ishmael Hansen
No Quarter.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 13:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: LeMoose its simple, the diffrence in the 350 and 425 t2's is not worth the cost unless uve got loads of isk
And do you think the 350mm II's will stay cheaper then the 425mm II's for much longer? Don't think the tech 2 lobby will allow that.
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Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation Pure.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 13:11:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kate Darieux From what i heard so far, 350mm's really shine on the Rokh. You can still get insane range with them due to the bonus from the ship, and the added tracking more than makes up for the reduced damage. The less demanding fitting requirements also allow for a better setup.
The only advantage of the rokh is to out-range its opponents as dps isn't high at all compared to raven.
If you don't use 425mm and thereby abandon your out-range advantage, you're hardly better than a raven.
A rokh with named 425mm, 3x magnetic field stabs, skills all at Level4 and AM makes around 360dps. Not for long, as they eat up your cap pretty fast.
A raven makes 400-500dps at the same range, with no tracking, better tank (due to more cap for the booster), 1-2 nos, and at a MUCH cheaper price.
Apart from that: if you want a rokh, fight at 150-250km. For everything below, use a raven. Or a scorp.
Okay maybe a blaster Rokh is worth the money, too.
But i bet a raven with comparable skills&fitting is always better than a 350mm Rokh. -- This game is still in beta stage |
Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.05 13:20:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Paigan But i bet a raven with comparable skills&fitting is always better than a 350mm Rokh.
A Raven is worthless at 220km fleetbattle, if you dont hope bet on victim cant warp out in time, due to a tackler or lag, which most time kills the ppl.
Rokh + 350mm II is good dmg, with good range, while beeing cheapest fleetbattleship. Period.
Also the range is very good, with 2 Tracking CPU II in mids. You will outrange many hi end T2 turretuser. Ppl saying 350mm II suck have just no clue.
You wont get uber hits, but decent hits at huge range, while beeing invincible to non Rokhs. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Devon Manticore
Minmatar Manticore Technologies
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Posted - 2006.12.05 13:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Kate Darieux From what i heard so far, 350mm's really shine on the Rokh. You can still get insane range with them due to the bonus from the ship, and the added tracking more than makes up for the reduced damage. The less demanding fitting requirements also allow for a better setup.
They are much cheaper too
Wheres my damn portrait! |
ramptrick
Caldari Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.05 13:56:00 -
[16]
WTS 200 units of 350 rail II's that i bought before the patch!!
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MECTO
Xenobytes Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.05 14:07:00 -
[17]
350mm t2 are useless, nothing to see here >.> move along!
It's Great Being Carebear in Kali - aint it?
Originally by: Tuxford In this picture you might think that Gallente totally pwn. Well they're alright
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Paigan
Amarr Katsu Corporation Pure.
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Posted - 2006.12.05 14:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Loka
Originally by: Paigan But i bet a raven with comparable skills&fitting is always better than a 350mm Rokh.
A Raven is worthless at 220km fleetbattle, if you dont hope bet on victim cant warp out in time, due to a tackler or lag, which most time kills the ppl.
Rokh + 350mm II is good dmg, with good range, while beeing cheapest fleetbattleship. Period.
Also the range is very good, with 2 Tracking CPU II in mids. You will outrange many hi end T2 turretuser. Ppl saying 350mm II suck have just no clue.
You wont get uber hits, but decent hits at huge range, while beeing invincible to non Rokhs.
please read what i wrote. I DID talk about long range sniping, where the rokh shines.
But i also said that for sniping, it doesn't make much sense to abandon the range (and damage) of 425mm.
You hardly reach 200km with 350m, meaning that you will shoot into falloff and thus getting LESS damage than with 425mm. 425mm can even spare one tracking enhancer and fit more damage / tanking modules and so get even MORE damage.
For this use, 425mm will always be better than 350mm. "period" (i hate this arrogant word, please don't use it anymore. thx.)
The comparison with the raven was meant, AS I SAID, more in range below 150km as this would be the obvious idea behind not using a max-range sniper fitting.
I could as well say now: People using non-max range weapon for sniping have no clue. But i don't do it. -- This game is still in beta stage |
Vasiliyan
PAX Interstellar Services Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.05 15:19:00 -
[19]
The Rokh is all about named 425mm guns, especially with the Spike nerf. It allows people with less than 5m specialised gunnery SP to participate in fleet battles at all.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.12.05 15:21:00 -
[20]
425 II = 15m each
350 II = 3m each
I know which one I would use on a rohk.
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Butter Dog
The Dead Miners Society
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Posted - 2006.12.05 15:26:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Paigan
I could as well say now: People using non-max range weapon for sniping have no clue. But i don't do it.
Well, you're stupid if you say that.
Fleets are mixed. Whats the point in taking a 425 II fitted rohk (cost of railguns: 120m) along with a 180km range sniping fleet?
You can take a 350 II rohk with 200km optimal, better fitting, FAR lower cost (80% less), only 5% less damage but better tracking.
Only a complete fool would fit it with 425 II's on a Rohk in all but exceptional circumstances, because the extra range and extra ISK is just wasted alongside your Tempest/Maelstrom/Apoc/Abaddon/Mega/Hype friends who are flying with you.
350 II's simply make sense, and thats all there is to it.
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Dawson
Caldari British Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:23:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Dawson on 06/12/2006 14:24:32 Right, so basicly
350's are cheap, but not quite as effective, but still allowing you to hit at great range.
425's are the end all, but not only do you gain the damage, range and tank increase but a huge uninsurable bill.
I think i'll go with 350's and buy some 425's when i'm rolling in it. Cant afford that kind of money at the moment. Invested all my money
Ambassador & Admiral |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.06 14:44:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Dawson Edited by: Dawson on 06/12/2006 14:24:32 Right, so basicly
350's are cheap, but not quite as effective, but still allowing you to hit at great range.
About the same range than an average sniping BS, which is fine if the rokh is part of a mutli-racial sniping gang.
Originally by: Dawson
425's are the end all, but not only do you gain the damage, range and tank increase but a huge uninsurable bill.
huh, what? The tank with 350mm is better (less fitting requirments for guns, allowing for a better tank), and less cap usage from the guns makes your tank run longer. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Dawson
Caldari British Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:01:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Dawson on 06/12/2006 15:01:37 but dont you need more tracking for range increase ? or is it better to put tracking on low slot ?
Ambassador & Admiral |
Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Butter Dog
Originally by: Paigan
I could as well say now: People using non-max range weapon for sniping have no clue. But i don't do it.
Well, you're stupid if you say that.
Fleets are mixed. Whats the point in taking a 425 II fitted rohk (cost of railguns: 120m) along with a 180km range sniping fleet?
You can take a 350 II rohk with 200km optimal, better fitting, FAR lower cost (80% less), only 5% less damage but better tracking.
Only a complete fool would fit it with 425 II's on a Rohk in all but exceptional circumstances, because the extra range and extra ISK is just wasted alongside your Tempest/Maelstrom/Apoc/Abaddon/Mega/Hype friends who are flying with you.
350 II's simply make sense, and thats all there is to it.
Use Rokhs with 425IIs only and in rokh only fleets. Use Mega with 425iiS for mixed fleets cause those fleets often engage at mixed ranges and therefore you want the tracking and extra dronebay of your Mega... Use Rokh with 350IIs as an alternative of the 425IIMega in mixed fleets if you dont have skills to use Mega/Tempest/Geddon etc... it will be an ok option for the further 2 weeks or so that 350II will remain substantially cheaper than 425IIs (check 125II 150II prices to get an idea)
IMO
Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Dawson Edited by: Dawson on 06/12/2006 15:01:37 but dont you need more tracking for range increase ? or is it better to put tracking on low slot ?
If you have caldari BS 5, your 350mm rails II will have the same optimal than a similar 425mm II Megathron, so no, you don't need additionnal mods. If you have caladri BS 4, you'll still have more optimal than a tachyon II or 1400mm II, so you don't need to put one more tracking mod compared to another sniper ship. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
Loka
Gallente adeptus gattacus Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2006.12.06 15:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Loka on 06/12/2006 15:54:49
Originally by: Paigan
But i also said that for sniping, it doesn't make much sense to abandon the range (and damage) of 425mm.
You hardly reach 200km with 350m, meaning that you will shoot into falloff and thus getting LESS damage than with 425mm. 425mm can even spare one tracking enhancer and fit more damage / tanking modules and so get even MORE damage.
For this use, 425mm will always be better than 350mm. "period" (i hate this arrogant word, please don't use it anymore. thx.)
The comparison with the raven was meant, AS I SAID, more in range below 150km as this would be the obvious idea behind not using a max-range sniper fitting.
I could as well say now: People using non-max range weapon for sniping have no clue. But i don't do it.
Pls show me the setup which can reach 200km optimal on any other BS than a Rokh. I have hard time with my current 170km optimal on my Megathron.
Here a possible Rokh fitting with 192km optimal ... replace sopme module to get over 200km easily.
8x 350mm Railgun II [80xSpike L - KALI] 192km optimal
2x Tracking Computer II 2x Sensor Booster II 2x empty slots put whatever you want
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Large Armor Repairer II
AS i said a Rokh can put itself into a snipingpos where no other BS can reach it, regardless of fitting. And it does not need 425mm II Rails to reach this insane ranges. _________________________ Noob In Action - [NIA]
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Crellion
Art of War Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2006.12.06 16:02:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Loka Edited by: Loka on 06/12/2006 15:54:49
Originally by: Paigan
But i also said that for sniping, it doesn't make much sense to abandon the range (and damage) of 425mm.
You hardly reach 200km with 350m, meaning that you will shoot into falloff and thus getting LESS damage than with 425mm. 425mm can even spare one tracking enhancer and fit more damage / tanking modules and so get even MORE damage.
For this use, 425mm will always be better than 350mm. "period" (i hate this arrogant word, please don't use it anymore. thx.)
The comparison with the raven was meant, AS I SAID, more in range below 150km as this would be the obvious idea behind not using a max-range sniper fitting.
I could as well say now: People using non-max range weapon for sniping have no clue. But i don't do it.
Pls show me the setup which can reach 200km optimal on any other BS than a Rokh. I have hard time with my current 170km optimal on my Megathron.
Here a possible Rokh fitting with 192km optimal ... replace sopme module to get over 200km easily.
8x 350mm Railgun II [80xSpike L - KALI] 192km optimal
2x Tracking Computer II 2x Sensor Booster II 2x empty slots put whatever you want
3x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Large Armor Repairer II
AS i said a Rokh can put itself into a snipingpos where no other BS can reach it, regardless of fitting. And it does not need 425mm II Rails to reach this insane ranges.
Your math is wrong somewhere Mega still does 178km with 1 compII 1 enhancII. Just quit being a killmail hog drop the 3rd sensor booster for a 2nd track comp and you are at 200km optimal (more or less). Arguably my opinions represent to an extent the opinions of my alliance and in particular circumstances give rise to a valid "casus belli" claim. |
Dawson
Caldari British Space Corporation
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Posted - 2006.12.06 17:06:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dawson on 06/12/2006 17:06:57 I was thinking.
8 x 350's
3 x sb 2 2 x TC 2 1 x invun ward
3 x mag 2 1 x T - enhancer 2 1 x 1600mm plate
then some sheild resitance rigs.
or have 2 invun wards and get rid of a mag stab for extra tracking.
Ambassador & Admiral |
madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolance
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Posted - 2006.12.06 17:15:00 -
[30]
Edited by: madaluap on 06/12/2006 17:16:56 Fit 350mm 2 on the rokh, its 7% less basedps, more tracking and with optimalbonus just as good as the 425mm 2 on a mega...
If you take fitting into account, the 350mm 2 railgun will outdamage the 425mm 2 on a rokh, because you have room for more damagemods.
Better tracking, same range (mega), more dps, better tanking (extenders)
Oh yeh did i mention you can buy 44 350mm 2 for the price of 7 425mm2
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