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Goldfinch
House Rkard
241
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Posted - 2015.08.08 15:07:08 -
[61] - Quote
We see Matar Ronin is working through his five stages of denial. He has gone from Rage and Anger to now Bargaining with the Empress. Depression and Acceptance can't be far behind, hm?
veiled and bound
my origin story (on R109)
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
897
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Posted - 2015.08.08 17:30:57 -
[62] - Quote
Goldfinch wrote: We see Matar Ronin is working through his five stages of denial. He has gone from Rage and Anger to now Bargaining with the Empress. Depression and Acceptance can't be far behind, hm?
Personally, I think he's just buttering her up so he can maybe buy her a drink, then offer to show her some of his bulkhead-scultpure back on his carri-.... wait, no, that's me angling to seduce her, not him. Nevermind! |
Matar Ronin
690
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Posted - 2015.08.08 23:59:07 -
[63] - Quote
Goldfinch wrote: We see Matar Ronin is working through his five stages of denial. He has gone from Rage and Anger to now Bargaining with the Empress. Depression and Acceptance can't be far behind, hm?
It is sad to see even an opponent capsuleer slowly slide into the "wet grave", losing her mind bit by bit is such an awful way to go.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
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Posted - 2015.08.09 00:39:57 -
[64] - Quote
Wait, are you saying you wouldn't seduce the Empress if you could? Cuz you know, sure, she's starting to get a little up there, but she's still a babe. And you know, we're an intense, passionate, primal people... |
Deitra Vess
Scope Works
551
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Posted - 2015.08.09 00:50:18 -
[65] - Quote
Don't think he's interested in reanimated corpses... |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
906
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Posted - 2015.08.09 01:03:23 -
[66] - Quote
Eh, she's an egger, she's no more a zombie than the rest of us.
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
358
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Posted - 2015.08.09 01:19:36 -
[67] - Quote
Can't deny that I have a thing for reducing True Amarrian ladies into puddles of overwhelmed hormones and endorphins. There's something very satisfying about teaching them about... freedoms and bonds. |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
1989
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Posted - 2015.08.10 17:22:43 -
[68] - Quote
Pieter Tuulinen wrote: ...Anyone who knows the State well knows that our preferred position is to trade with all and be allied with none. We hate it when our friends drag us into wars and foreign adventures, but so long as the Republic remains a staunch ally of the Federation and the Federation remains bitterly against the idea of there being a Caldari State, we really have no choice.
The Federation does not advocate for the destruction of the State. They are against having an hostile, militarized planet controlled by the State in the middle of their sovereign high sec territory, however.
As for trying to talk sense to any of the slaver zealots you'd all be better served by saving your breath (and your ammunition) and dealing with them in the same way the Jove dealt with them. The slavers understand that, not rational discourse or diplomacy.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Rodj Blake
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2129
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Posted - 2015.08.10 17:29:53 -
[69] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:
As for trying to talk sense to any of the slaver zealots you'd all be better served by saving your breath (and your ammunition) and dealing with them in the same way the Jove dealt with them. The slavers understand that, not rational discourse or diplomacy.
The Aidonis people would disagree with you there.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2133
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Posted - 2015.08.10 19:27:26 -
[70] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:As for trying to talk sense to any of the slaver zealots you'd all be better served by saving your breath (and your ammunition) and dealing with them in the same way the Jove dealt with them. The slavers understand that, not rational discourse or diplomacy.
Which nation has broken peace treaties, refused diplomacy, and thrown the cluster to war in the last three decades?
Oh, that's right. The Republic.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
943
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Posted - 2015.08.10 19:35:42 -
[71] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:The Federation does not advocate for the destruction of the State. They are against having an hostile, militarized planet controlled by the State in the middle of their sovereign high sec territory, however.
Oh, you mean the Caldari homeworld?
They could always just give the whole system to the Caldari people who live there. Honestly, starving an entire planet? What was the Federation thinking??
Quote: As for trying to talk sense to any of the slaver zealots you'd all be better served by saving your breath (and your ammunition) and dealing with them in the same way the Jove dealt with them. The slavers understand that, not rational discourse or diplomacy.
The understand rational discourse quite well. And I'm personally optimistic that the Empress will enjoy the copy of the interactive novel Holder: Brutor I sent her. Very... thought-provoking. |
Shaddam Daphiti
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2015.08.10 19:54:12 -
[72] - Quote
I try to avoid politics, it is a den of prideful and boastful souls...
As to abolition...
That day is coming as Her Holiness has said. However, it is not today. It is the just and righteous place of a Holder to guide and support those fallen furthest, for those fallen suffer the most.
Would you take your hand from a child in the midst of it's pain in the name of "freedom"?
That day is coming, but it is not today. |
Jandice Ymladris
Aurora Arcology
1454
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Posted - 2015.08.10 20:31:01 -
[73] - Quote
Arrendis wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:The Federation does not advocate for the destruction of the State. They are against having an hostile, militarized planet controlled by the State in the middle of their sovereign high sec territory, however. Oh, you mean the Caldari homeworld? They could always just give the whole system to the Caldari people who live there. Honestly, starving an entire planet? What was the Federation thinking?? [quote]
Part of the issue here is that the Luminaire system not only contains the Caldari Homeworld, but also the Gallente Homeworld. Yes, we stared out in the same system on two different planets. Makes it a bit more complicated.
The current demilitarized zone agreement (with Mordu's Legion guarding the planet) is a nice compromis.
Capsuleers present petition to Eifyr & Co
The rising threat of the Drifters
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
1991
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Posted - 2015.08.10 20:47:43 -
[74] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:As for trying to talk sense to any of the slaver zealots you'd all be better served by saving your breath (and your ammunition) and dealing with them in the same way the Jove dealt with them. The slavers understand that, not rational discourse or diplomacy. Which nation has broken peace treaties, refused diplomacy, and thrown the cluster to war in the last three decades? Oh, that's right. The Republic.
Yeah and who invaded a peaceful people's home worlds, kidnapped tens of millions, killed millions of others and held an entire culture and civilization hostage for a thousand years so that the the Elders found it necessary to do what they did?
Oh, that's right, the Amarr.
See what I did there, slaver sycophant?
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
950
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Posted - 2015.08.10 21:35:03 -
[75] - Quote
Jandice Ymladris wrote:Part of the issue here is that the Luminaire system not only contains the Caldari Homeworld, but also the Gallente Homeworld. Yes, we stared out in the same system on two different planets. Makes it a bit more complicated.
Oh, I know. But I'd personally have to say genocide voids your claim to the system.
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Samira Kernher
Praetorian Auxiliary Force Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
2134
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Posted - 2015.08.10 21:41:00 -
[76] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:Yeah and who invaded a peaceful people's home worlds, kidnapped tens of millions, killed millions of others and held an entire culture and civilization hostage for a thousand years so that the the Elders found it necessary to do what they did?
Oh, that's right, the Amarr.
See what I did there, slaver sycophant?
Yes, I see that what you did was, as usual, attempt to divert the conversation onto a completely different point.
You, previously, brought up willingness to engage in 'rational discourse and diplomacy'. No diplomatic relations existed during the first war. We declared war on a foreign nation with which we had no diplomatic relations and conquered it.
But diplomatic relations did exist 7 years ago. You don't get to say that we don't understand rational discourse and diplomacy, when the only ones who broke a century of rational discourse and diplomacy was you, not us.
"The word of the Empress is the word of God, the will of the Empress is the will of God. Let no man seek to shirk his obligations before God and His chosen representative in this world."
-- Datna Jesebel, Principal Clerk of the Theology Council
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Cain Aloga
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
72
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Posted - 2015.08.11 03:30:55 -
[77] - Quote
Samira Kernher wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Yeah and who invaded a peaceful people's home worlds, kidnapped tens of millions, killed millions of others and held an entire culture and civilization hostage for a thousand years so that the the Elders found it necessary to do what they did?
Oh, that's right, the Amarr.
See what I did there, slaver sycophant? Yes, I see that what you did was, as usual, attempt to divert the conversation onto a completely different point. You, previously, brought up willingness to engage in 'rational discourse and diplomacy'. No diplomatic relations existed during the first war. We declared war on a foreign nation with which we had no diplomatic relations and conquered it. But diplomatic relations did exist 7 years ago. You don't get to say that we don't understand rational discourse and diplomacy, when the only ones who broke a century of rational discourse and diplomacy was you, not us.
I do not recall a single Republic navy ship engaging your golden fleets under Republic orders. Sure we were cheering them on, but the Republic was not responsible for the attacks. The Elder fleet was made up primarily by the Thukker Tribe, who at the time were not members of our nation. Should we begin blaming all blood raider activity on the Amarr? After all, they share your religion and culture. |
Simon Louvaki
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
680
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Posted - 2015.08.11 05:26:22 -
[78] - Quote
Thats odd, because I could swear I saw a healthy mix of Republic vessels among the Elder Fleet during the invasion..
-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt;
Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21
--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
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Matar Ronin
697
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Posted - 2015.08.11 05:32:50 -
[79] - Quote
Simon Louvaki wrote:Thats odd, because I could swear I saw a healthy mix of Republic vessels among the Elder Fleet during the invasion.. Rogue Commanders who violated orders and left the Republic Fleet command structure to participate. They are now ex-Commanders.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
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Simon Louvaki
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
680
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Posted - 2015.08.11 06:09:39 -
[80] - Quote
I'm sure you can understand why there is a great deal of skepticism revolving around the Republic's culpability in the Elder War Mr. Ronin. So many Republic servicemen and commanders made the ultimate sacrifice that day.
-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt;
Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21
--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb
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Matar Ronin
697
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Posted - 2015.08.11 07:09:12 -
[81] - Quote
Simon Louvaki wrote:I'm sure you can understand why there is a great deal of skepticism revolving around the Republic's culpability in the Elder War Mr. Ronin. So many Republic servicemen and commanders made the ultimate sacrifice that day. Naturally because of the great passions this event invoked our hearts go out to those who allowed themselves to react emotionally. That is one of the benefits of a Military command structure, the knee jerk passionate responses can be minimized.
This stands as a prime example of why I am not in the Republic Military, following orders that break your heart is what you agree to do sometimes, a commander must remember his/ her ship belongs to the Republic.
As a non-military pilot if I exercise the luxury to follow my passions the cost will be incurred by my corp/alliance, something I think those rogue emotional commanders failed to calculate.
In my opinion they should have resigned their commissions, then signed up on an independent ship and followed their hearts. Using Republic ships purchased from our people's wages and/or our allies support in violation of orders was not a good choice in my personal opinion, it has besmirched the reputation of our armed forces and that has not been easily cleansed.
But they did go rogue of that I am sure. The plodding politics of Republic military command would never take such a risk against a force as large as the demonic cult empire's fleet. The downside could have been catastrophic, that is something a force sworn to protect the Republic could not risk with conventional forces. Simply put the math in those days would not have played out in our favor in a protracted slugfest.
GÇÿVain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.GÇÖ
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Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1272
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Posted - 2015.08.11 08:55:17 -
[82] - Quote
Cain Aloga wrote:Samira Kernher wrote:Anabella Rella wrote:Yeah and who invaded a peaceful people's home worlds, kidnapped tens of millions, killed millions of others and held an entire culture and civilization hostage for a thousand years so that the the Elders found it necessary to do what they did?
Oh, that's right, the Amarr.
See what I did there, slaver sycophant? Yes, I see that what you did was, as usual, attempt to divert the conversation onto a completely different point. You, previously, brought up willingness to engage in 'rational discourse and diplomacy'. No diplomatic relations existed during the first war. We declared war on a foreign nation with which we had no diplomatic relations and conquered it. But diplomatic relations did exist 7 years ago. You don't get to say that we don't understand rational discourse and diplomacy, when the only ones who broke a century of rational discourse and diplomacy was you, not us. I do not recall a single Republic navy ship engaging your golden fleets under Republic orders. Sure we were cheering them on, but the Republic was not responsible for the attacks. The Elder fleet was made up primarily by the Thukker Tribe, who at the time were not members of our nation. Should we begin blaming all blood raider activity on the Amarr? After all, they share your religion and culture. Edit: I also recall a certain Amarr Royal Heir jumping a fleet into Federation Space.
The Empire condemned the action and the royal heir was stripped of all his military forces as well as to go through intense disciplinary measures.
I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves. |
Cain Aloga
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
77
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Posted - 2015.08.11 12:26:03 -
[83] - Quote
Simon Louvaki wrote:Thats odd, because I could swear I saw a healthy mix of Republic vessels among the Elder Fleet during the invasion..
Simon Louvaki wrote:I'm sure you can understand why there is a great deal of skepticism revolving around the Republic's culpability in the Elder War Mr. Ronin. So many Republic servicemen and commanders made the ultimate sacrifice that day.
It has been made public record that the Republic Fleet was ordered to stand down, and later only to prepare for an attack. Yes, Republic personel participated in the Elder Invasion, but only after disregardin their orders and abandoning their posts. Those individuals no longer hold positions within the fleet. The majority of the forces involved were outside of Republic Jurisdiction or control.
Lyn Farel wrote:
The Empire condemned the action and the royal heir was stripped of all his military forces as well as to go through intense disciplinary measures.
I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves.
The difference here is that while the Elder Fleet was comprised of ships and carried out by a faction out side of the the 4 empires, thus not under any CONCORD or other treaties, the actions taken by that Royal Heir w+¿re not. Official Amarr Navy Ships, acting under official Amarr orders, jumped into Federation Space and engaged the Federal Navy.
The Empire is free to carry out what ever domestic policy it sees fit as necessary, as is the Republic.
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Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
957
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Posted - 2015.08.11 13:18:36 -
[84] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves.
You mean have their ships blown up and then CONCORD considers the matter over and done with? |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1275
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Posted - 2015.08.11 17:17:35 -
[85] - Quote
Cain Aloga wrote:
The difference here is that while the Elder Fleet was comprised of ships and carried out by a faction out side of the the 4 empires, thus not under any CONCORD or other treaties, the actions taken by that Royal Heir w+¿re not. Official Amarr Navy Ships, acting under official Amarr orders, jumped into Federation Space and engaged the Federal Navy.
The Empire is free to carry out what ever domestic policy it sees fit as necessary, as is the Republic.
Please keep in mind that the Thukker Tribe has been more or less completely accepted into the Republic for the first time since the change of regime. Part of the armada that attacked Yulai were Thukker military ships. This makes the Republic harboring them, and protecting them. And if not that, then actively collaborating with them and supporting them.
Arrendis wrote:Lyn Farel wrote:I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves. You mean have their ships blown up and then CONCORD considers the matter over and done with?
As far as I am aware, the Elders are not immortals. |
Arrendis
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
964
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Posted - 2015.08.11 17:24:27 -
[86] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Arrendis wrote:Lyn Farel wrote:I have yet to see the new Minmatar Republic do the same concerning the Elders and their forces, that are now considered as criminals to be arrested and convicted by CONCORD themselves. You mean have their ships blown up and then CONCORD considers the matter over and done with? As far as I am aware, the Elders are not immortals.
Then they're not under CONCORD's jurisdiction at all, now are they? |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1277
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Posted - 2015.08.11 18:09:32 -
[87] - Quote
CONCORD does not deal only with empyreans... It was already there well before cloning was invented. It is an intergalactic organization that was originally built as a bridge between all the five major nations.
It still assumes most of its original functions, and even more. It will not be the first time CONCORD puts a bounty or a warrant on baseliner heads... |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1278
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Posted - 2015.08.11 18:34:58 -
[88] - Quote
Matar Ronin wrote:Rogue Commanders who violated orders and left the Republic Fleet command structure to participate. They are now ex-Commanders.
Cain Aloga wrote: Those individuals no longer hold positions within the fleet.
Sorry for asking though, but what make you say that? I would be interested to get to know more on that actually?
I have never been able to find any reliable source on what all those 'defectors' became? The only reliable fact that was witnessed is the unwillingness of the Republic to act upon the Elder Fleet when it fled through their territory after escaping through Vard, in defiance of CONCORD directions on the matter... |
Cain Aloga
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
84
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Posted - 2015.08.11 18:43:25 -
[89] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:
I have never been able to find any reliable source on what all those 'defectors' became? The only reliable fact that was witnessed is the unwillingness of the Republic to act upon the Elder Fleet when it fled through their territory after escaping through Vard, in defiance of CONCORD directions on the matter...
We do not make it a habit of firing upon our heroes, more so when they are our Elders. Forgive me if this is a piece of your culture that I do not understand. |
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1280
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Posted - 2015.08.11 19:35:52 -
[90] - Quote
Well, it is not really that I do not understand... I was simply stating facts. That someone chooses to either heed the words of CONCORD and the other empires, or the will of the Republic is a matter of perspective and opinions...
Also, I digged a bit on the matter of those defectors and it appears that the little facts I found seem to hint in your direction, in that most of those defectors were hot shots that chose to defect a military that was in its majority very midularist. It seems improbable that most of them got reintegrated. |
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