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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
285
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 19:21:00 -
[211] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:El Boracho wrote:Morganta wrote:exploitation of the addiction mechanic in humans
same principals as with gambling addiction.
and if given a choice between winning and losing, people will always take winning True but in a sandbox game there is no single definition of winning. NullSecDude: I am master of this block of space, fear me. HiSecGuy: Who cares NullSecDude: You are ignoring 90% of the game, wtf HiSecGuy: No, I'm just ignoring you. Deal with it. There. That's more like it.
I think it's more like this:
Nullsec dude: (man, this sucks, sitting on this gate, I wantz PVP and pew pew) Hey, you stupid carebears, you are missing 90 percent of the game by not leaving highsec!
Highsec dude: (here we go again, they already won nullsec by killing everything that's not blue and they NAPed up to each other, and now they are out of targets. Should I bother? Oh well) Hey, STFU. When you pay my sub, you can tell me how to play.
Nullsec dude: what's the matter, you scared?
Highsec dude: It's a game, stupid. Just because I don't want to pad your killboard, does not make me scared.
Nullsec dude: Awe c'mon, it's not that hard. Anybody can go to 0.0. You just need to have a couple more accounts to use as backup, join an alliance with all of them, zigzag through every system you are in making safe spots so it takes you 5 minutes per jump, and get used to losing ships a lot that you still have to grind ISK to replace in a hostile environment. How is that so hard.
Highsec dude: (holy **** that's not a game, it sounds like a part time job that you pay to work at and not get paid for working at) Uh, forget it. I don't have time for that crap.
Nullsec dude: (damn! He's not as stupid as I am... I need kills!!) Chicken! *****!! Carebear!! You are killing EvE!! People like you are the wellspring from which all that is wrong with the world flows!!1!! HTFU and come to null!! (that'll show him - I better keep my second monitor on the EvE client while I surf 4chan cause he'll come out now and I want the lulz).
Highsec dude: Nice try, but I'll pass.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 19:29:00 -
[212] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Nullsec dude: Awe c'mon, it's not that hard. Anybody can go to 0.0. You just need to have a couple more accounts to use as backup, join an alliance with all of them, zigzag through every system you are in making safe spots so it takes you 5 minutes per jump, and get used to losing ships a lot that you still have to grind ISK to replace in a hostile environment. How is that so hard. lol wut |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
95
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Posted - 2011.12.10 20:02:00 -
[213] - Quote
Let me go ahead and say
i agree with the people that avoid null like the plague because of all the bubble camps and the not blue shoot it thing, and the you cant dock here in less you lick X alliances balls.
before i started playing EvE ( thats 2 years after launch) how i thought null worked and after i started playing how i seen it worked where 2 TOTALLY different ways.
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:07:00 -
[214] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY.
I mean, god damn, boy. |
Steveir
Hagukure
18
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:07:00 -
[215] - Quote
Well simply I play to relax and enjoy MMOs. Unfortunately that means the odd hour here and there due to real life stuff. This fits in well with my relaxed corp mates (fortunately). As we all know trying to do anything solo of the "harder" elements of Eve will always end in tears. I live in hope that Eve will implement better Public quest, or battlegrounds, which will suit casual play and pick up groups more. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
95
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:23:00 -
[216] - Quote
Steveir wrote:Well simply I play to relax and enjoy MMOs. Unfortunately that means the odd hour here and there due to real life stuff. This fits in well with my relaxed corp mates (fortunately). As we all know trying to do anything solo of the "harder" elements of Eve will always end in tears. I live in hope that Eve will implement better Public quest, or battlegrounds, which will suit casual play and pick up groups more.
Public quest - Incursions
Battlegrounds - Faction Wars
that's what they are really, but FW is broken
I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 20:37:00 -
[217] - Quote
And at some point I'm sure CCP will add some sort of 1v1 2v2 4v4 etc options, maybe even where people can sit in a station and place bets on the outcome. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Whack-A-Mole
18
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Posted - 2011.12.10 21:06:00 -
[218] - Quote
Well that was a great way to kill some time. Some hilarious posts in there. Herzog got a like or two. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
286
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:46:00 -
[219] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY. I mean, god damn, boy.
You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone.
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 21:53:00 -
[220] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY. I mean, god damn, boy. You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone. lol you really think we make multiple safes to fly through each system? |
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Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:00:00 -
[221] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone. Implying I'd actually go to the effort of ganking someone. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
286
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:23:00 -
[222] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:Steveir wrote:Well simply I play to relax and enjoy MMOs. Unfortunately that means the odd hour here and there due to real life stuff. This fits in well with my relaxed corp mates (fortunately). As we all know trying to do anything solo of the "harder" elements of Eve will always end in tears. I live in hope that Eve will implement better Public quest, or battlegrounds, which will suit casual play and pick up groups more. Public quest - Incursions Battlegrounds - Faction Wars that's what they are really, but FW is broken
It's a real shame that FW is not expanded to let "soldier" be a viable career option. In that other MMO that everybody pretends to hate (while keeping silent about their own twinked level-capped toon) all I did in the last year was battleground PVP. Had some some outrageous number of "honor points" or whatever they called it (haven't played since the end of 2007 so I don't remember).
FW comes close to a battleground PVP, but misses the mark. There is no soldier career.
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Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.10 22:32:00 -
[223] - Quote
And there's no real reason to go to 0.0 when the space is controlled by alliance blocs who will:
A) kill you for not being blue, and can use concord reports from the internet to figure out where you are rather than having scanner scouts and do actual intel gathering.
B) decide you can stick around, but you have to play their way, do exactly as they say, bend over and take it while getting on your knees and smiling like a doughnut...
I call this insane risk/no reward.
If I'm in a fleet I can take orders. I have no interest in letting anyone else dictate how I spend my free time or spend my ISK.
That's why I stay out of nullsec.
That and gatecamps are unsurvivable chokepoints if you're looking to explore a bit. They allow too much control over the movements of people, and before you say anything about Cyno, let ships other than blackops and caps mount a jump drive and I'll consider caring.
Especially if you can lock on a planet and use THAT as your jump marker. Since, you know... cyno fields are supposed to simulate a planetary mass large enough for your ship sensors to lock on/jump to?
But since you can't jump into/out of high sec? You have to use the gate camps.
I have no interest in providing easy killmails to pad their PvPeen. i have enough trouble avoiding suicide gankers in high sec, thanks. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:36:00 -
[224] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote: That and gatecamps are unsurvivable chokepoints if you're looking to explore a bit.
lol |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:50:00 -
[225] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Kaylyis wrote: That and gatecamps are unsurvivable chokepoints if you're looking to explore a bit.
lol
yup, it's really funny when you don't have someone else providing ship replacement services. And spending six hours mapping out a survivable pathway to the low and nullsec areas worthwhile only to get two hours of doing whatever?
Ya no thanks.
If people had to work for their killmail cookies? I'd be going in and out of low and nullsec all the damned time. But it takes no work to lock down all the bottlenecks into desirable space and kill everything that comes through. Add to it the jump drive system as it is happens to be vastly unwieldy and clunky and you have a winner.
Especially the instant I pop an NPC mob, or get into a firefight anyone scanning the internet can see my activity? Oh look someone's ratting over there. send ship, Scan down, hotdrop, poof. What industrialists? You have your nullbears that are content to obey you in exchange for botting (sorry, peaceful operation) rights. Why worry about what us highsecers are doing?
So not worth rolling out to those areas. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:53:00 -
[226] - Quote
I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 22:58:00 -
[227] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv
too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:09:00 -
[228] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. lol I remember when I started playing and discovered eve-central and found that mexallon in Syndicate was a real steal so I decided to roll on down there in my bestower. Needless to say i soon needed a plan B.
then I learned about Provi and loaded like 80% of my wallet in zydrine form into a tormentor and flew blind 20 jumps (I didn't know about jump bridges lol) and regularly made craploads of cash filling in buy orders because Provi had to import high ends back then (haha Provi sucks). Somehow between ninja salvaging holders and frig zydrine runners I wound up recruited and joined part of a series of bad 0.0 alliances and arguably worked my way up to Cascade Imminent.
tbh if I could make it in a tormentor, I don't see why you couldn't. |
Lord Zim
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
275
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:13:00 -
[229] - Quote
Kaylyis wrote:too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. I don't assume you didn't do any of the following, then:
1) check to see how many were docked and how many were active in system 2) check to see how many ships had been killed the last hour 3) go through in a noobship to check out the ones which didn't seem active
In which case, oh well. |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:20:00 -
[230] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Kaylyis wrote:Lord Zim wrote:I was going to say something about how there were entrances to nullsec which weren't camped because few people use them, and that once he's past them or blue to the gatecampers, life's a lot easier, but meh, I think he's got the idea that nullsec is the land of the boogeymen, so I'm not going to bother trying to convince him otherwise. vOv too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. lol I remember when I started playing and discovered eve-central and found that mexallon in Syndicate was a real steal so I decided to roll on down there in my bestower. Needless to say i soon needed a plan B. then I learned about Provi and loaded like 80% of my wallet in zydrine form into a tormentor and flew blind 20 jumps (I didn't know about jump bridges lol) and regularly made craploads of cash filling in buy orders because Provi had to import high ends back then (haha Provi sucks). Somehow between ninja salvaging holders and frig zydrine runners I wound up recruited and joined part of a series of bad 0.0 alliances and arguably worked my way up to Cascade Imminent.
Yup. Works, but unfortunately in order to make ISK I've had to run this character + my alt as orca fleet support and miner. I'm still working on getting the skills where I can use the modules. Because I need to afford the ships and such. I'm also skeptical about so-called "safe routes" people speak of because there's a lot of people who give false reports to people to bring 'em into the trap (learned about his the hard way, and I fell for it) and once someone makes a saferoute known in the open, someone will capitalize on it by making sure the safe route goes away.
Cost of doing business. But the cost is a little too high right now. Plus I have less than 7 mil SPs. hit the wrong gate and that's 100+ mil isk down the toilet. Insurance still results in a net loss, never mind whatever cargo I was carrying.
If I could get a confirmed route or was blue to enough low/nullsecers that I didn't universally fall into NBSI? I'd consider the risk of flying into low/null and dropping hulls and materiels on the market more than worth it, or trying to join fleet gangs to learn the game of kill **** in hardmode. I have a megathron and some cruisers I'm willing to risk to learn the hardmode game. If they get blown to ****? I don't freaking care, I'll buy a new one and try again. But trying to go it solo when all your friends are content to sit and chill in highsec?
much harder to get involved. Plus I'm ornery and don't want people to dictate to me how I play the game. In fleet's another story, but in general? no patience for it. |
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Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:23:00 -
[231] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:Kaylyis wrote:too many times getting popped trying to find my way out there. took me a month to get my **** back up to where i started at. Wasn't worth the constant losses figuring out the theoretical safe routes that change every day. I don't assume you didn't do any of the following, then: 1) check to see how many were docked and how many were active in system 2) check to see how many ships had been killed the last hour 3) go through in a noobship to check out the ones which didn't seem active In which case, oh well.
Need more skills trained. need to get jump clone skills to make it worth not losing all the cybernetics. Need friends who know how to play the game out there.
When I started? I got a LOT of shitass advice from people who convinced me to play. And I'm just now recovering some of the skillss i should have been training from the get-go. So I've had to learn everything the hard way and am just NOW figuring out how the skills stack together.
For new players like me, Nullsec's by and large not worth the risk. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
144
|
Posted - 2011.12.10 23:34:00 -
[232] - Quote
Well man, many hands make light work. Believe it or not, starting out in 0.0 is pretty easy if you take the initiative find a welcoming corp. High-SP players help with logistics (ie: just cyno down all your stuff) , you have intel channels to help plan your transit. You have access to jump bridges that let you bypass gates (the NC's jump bridge network was incredible at this for example, launching thousands of bears deep into Branch and back). When you're nearby, not busy and an FC asks for help, you chip in what you can. Without scouts and intel, flying an Orca or whatever through null is dangerous as hell, even if it's in your own alliance's space. I could assure you that there are lots of casual 0.0 corps out there that are part of alliances, just like there are carebear corps in highsec who go ballistic if you undock during a wardec.. I certainly couldn't be arsed to live in NBSI 0.0 solo.
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Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
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Posted - 2011.12.10 23:56:00 -
[233] - Quote
If I get wardec'd I'm jonesing to pack as much firepower as my sad sack skills can muster onto a thorax, tristan or megathron and go see just how big a shitstorm I can stir up :)
Just for the Lulz.
sitting in dock for four weeks till an enemy corp gets bored is about as much fun as going through hostile space with zero chance of winning in the PvP.
Catch-22. damned if you do, damned if you don't. |
Mediocrity
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:06:00 -
[234] - Quote
I believe that there are simply a limited number of people who have the time and desire to play the 0.0 game as it currently exists, and the vast majority of those people are already there.
Whether in an alliance or solo, it's not just that the bar is too high for most other players to want to bother with it (though that's part of it, given the costs in ISK and time/effort), but a lot of people have personalities that just don't enjoy the stress of constantly looking over their shoulder for the next ambush. That stress varies depending on your corp, it's true, but many high-secers like to play solo or with a few friends, and don't have the stomach for corp/alliance politics, backstabbing, rules and regulations, or being forced to play with people they don't like just to survive day-to-day.
Sure, a lot of people look at the continual threat of PvP itself as the selling point, but many others may like a fight once in a while but prefer the other aspects of the game, and find the stress level of navigating 0.0 to be too much. You're never going to convince them to do something they just plain don't think is fun. Most average high-secers who, say, log on for an hour or two after a day at work just can't afford the hassle, and wouldn't want it even if they could.
I think people know pretty well what they want out of the game, and EVE has already mostly sorted itself out based on people's preferences. I don't really see any way the population balance is likely to change unless players are either given additional survival tools to make dealing with the threats of things like gate camps easier on an individual level, the geography of the game is radically changed, or high-sec content is removed to the point that the average high-secer simply gives up and quits the game.
That's not to criticize either mentality; I just think that's the reality of things right now. |
Kaylyis
Aces wild mining corporation The I.D.E.A.
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 00:13:00 -
[235] - Quote
Mediocrity wrote:I believe that there are simply a limited number of people who have the time and desire to play the 0.0 game as it currently exists, and the vast majority of those people are already there.
Whether in an alliance or solo, it's not just that the bar is too high for most other players to want to bother with it (though that's part of it, given the costs in ISK and time/effort), but a lot of people have personalities that just don't enjoy the stress of constantly looking over their shoulder for the next ambush. That stress varies depending on your corp, it's true, but many high-secers like to play solo or with a few friends, and don't have the stomach for corp/alliance politics, backstabbing, rules and regulations, or being forced to play with people they don't like just to survive day-to-day.
Sure, a lot of people look at the continual threat of PvP itself as the selling point, but many others may like a fight once in a while but prefer the other aspects of the game, and find the stress level of navigating 0.0 to be too much. You're never going to convince them to do something they just plain don't think is fun. Most average high-secers who, say, log on for an hour or two after a day at work just can't afford the hassle, and wouldn't want it even if they could.
I think people know pretty well what they want out of the game, and EVE has already mostly sorted itself out based on people's preferences. I don't really see any way the population balance is likely to change unless players are either given additional survival tools to make dealing with the threats of things like gate camps easier on an individual level, the geography of the game is radically changed, or high-sec content is removed to the point that the average high-secer simply gives up and quits the game.
That's not to criticize either mentality; I just think that's the reality of things right now.
Yup.
death before politics. It's a game, not a job. |
Mirima Thurander
Sarajevo Syndicate True Reign
96
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 06:00:00 -
[236] - Quote
Clearly my tread has been derailed, i do indeed know the main null routes are camp by people that shoot everything, this thread is for the OP and not why or how Nuller do there thing. I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last. |
bilingi
Ghosts of the Storm
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 18:43:00 -
[237] - Quote
Actually look at these azhats posting about how great o.o is..... Those guys are why players dont go to null...
Its not hard to see that just read their posts... |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
462
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 19:10:00 -
[238] - Quote
Lyrrashae wrote:Tanya Powers wrote: [...] Useless interviews in fake internets pubbie press and so on. [...]
Stopped reading, right here. So fake internets non-pubbie press is somehow more legitimate, eh, TEST/Goon-alt? Go back to your RMT/bot-farming, you sanctimonious little girl, your owners need you...
You look angry, and so wrong, you gave me a good smile irl mostly because of all that importance you give to those internets pubbie press and useless stuff alike. Get a life on your own, pay your bills and come back when you grow in a few years.
But you can keep blah blah about your ubber press ;D
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Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
146
|
Posted - 2011.12.11 19:15:00 -
[239] - Quote
Mediocrity wrote:I believe that there are simply a limited number of people who have the time and desire to play the 0.0 game as it currently exists, and the vast majority of those people are already there.[ Null was far more populated and active last year and the year before then now, so I have some doubts that the current population is the maximum it can possibly be. The actual problem is that carebears after crunching the numbers find isk-wise, the current array of (post-nerf) null activities don't measure up to concord-protected incursions or concord-protected PI + L4 missions. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
295
|
Posted - 2011.12.12 16:23:00 -
[240] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Lord Zim wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:I think it's more like this:
[lots of nonsensical rabble] FTFY. I mean, god damn, boy. You guys play it differently and I must admit, better. Now go gank someone and leave me alone. lol you really think we make multiple safes to fly through each system?
Do you have a better way to get into the gate off the angle of the bubble? The most effective way is to form a triangle and make your own vector.
(there is an even better way than that - but I won't mention it) |
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