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Deep Throat
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:35:00 -
[1]
now ive been playing for 3years. and i have to say. this last patch has got to be the worst one ever, and there have been many "critically acclaimed" before this one.
It is my view CCP have totally lost it. As witnessed by those at the last fanfast, they have their minds set to cardboard figures and other merchandise to sell in big market areas, instead of attending to their game.
Nothing can substantiate this any more than this disaster of a patch they have just released. I remember at one time, one of the developers talked about the importance of not disturbing things that already work, that person has undoubtly quit working for ccp some time ago.
Most importanly CCP seem to be vacant from the game and are just leaving it up to babyseals like Tuxford and lesser minds like that to attend to it. It is a shame, cause after all, we are paying for their product and no mentally stable buisnessman would let his kids handle the merchandise.
so lets go over the patch and its content.
Contracts; just who the hell came up with this? that person(Tuxford) should be fired yesterday. the best thing about market and player exchange, infact the only thing that makes that thing work, is to be able to scroll abit, take a look over it, find what it is u are looking for.
With Contracts we have been given something reminding me of a garbage can, where u simply have to dig and hope the best, and maybe tomorrow u come back up holding a rotten lemon instead of the coca cola bottle u were looking for.
MAP: omg. to quote a developer; "it simply looked cool". well it sure may, but does it function? not at all. opening up map is like tucking in your parachute while driving down the freeway at 150m per hour. would u do it? on top of that, its so dark u need a flashlight to actually make something out, that is ofcaurse if u have mastered the unflatten-flatten limbo which is sadly a deadly necessity for orientation for this marvellous excellance in graphic design.
CCP solution to market inflation: now some time ago ccp introduced the very important t2 issue. to put this into play, they invented the most stupid thing ever called t2 research agent lottery. Not only did this go against the very heart of the game, namely that it is player driven, but was so limited that it left the few lucky ones in a position unparalelled in any market environment ever, anywhere.
They and they alone can make these t2 items and therefore hold a perfect monopoly position over everyone else, in addition CCP closed the t2 lottery machine, and hence nobody else can actually go out there, in this player driven game and do anything about it.
so from this postition we get to see event such as: owners of t2 bpo coming together and deciding to spike up the price(L guns for example went up 10-15m in a short period of time), ammunition has been steady at 200-300% above its production costs not to mention the cloaking devices and the heavy assault ships, which would take a page and a half of their own.
The point being, if this was truly player driven and realistic, ppl would go out there and get into this themselves, they would try everything they could to avoid paying 200-500% on top of the item which is the reality on eve market, but in eve they cant, cause its really not player driven, its ccp driven when they introduced the limited and stupifying lottery system which has no spiralled into what is now known as the t2 tychoons. Their wealth and control over the game is monumental which can be summarized into the fact, that when a person im accuinted with got lucky and got one of the interdictor bpos recently, he was offered 25 billion for it instanteanously, when he declinied he was offered a few days later the sum of 45 billions for it, again he declined and was then offered 60 billion for it.
Needless to say, something has to be done. There has to be an alternative.
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Deep Throat
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:35:00 -
[2]
Otherwise this is clearly not and never will be a player driven game.
Hence CCP have introduced invention. But like almost everything in this patch its shortcomings are abundant and obvious to the point where one begins to wonder, weather it was thought up by a 2 babyseals humping on da beach saying oink oink to each other.
Invention will never be an element in this game. It will not change the t2 market monopoly. Its a sad and lame attempt from CCP to quiet the critical voices that have been coming forth in increasing numbers over the past year complaining about the current situation. In order to change the current situation it has to be dealt with not offered a bandaid. Invention has to be financially realistic and or simply put doable for players that want to get into it or medium to large seized corps that wanna enter the t2 market. As it is the items required for an invention are way too few, resulting in way too high prices, coming from way too few agent in way too few many times.
In final, cpp topped themselves by nerfing just about everything they could in this patch while upgrading hitpoints and various elements under the excuse of prolonging combat scenarios. This may or may not prolong combat, but it smells like they are desperatly trying to breach the gap between older and younger players. Taking away all the skill aquired by older ones while giving the younger ones change of staying in there a bit longer by fitting extenders and tanking to the max, and putting ever more empahsis on smaller ships at the expense of the bigger, to the point where it can be said that deploying anything bigger than a cruiser in anything smaller than a fleet is simply stupid.
This development comes as no surprise as it has been adressed for some time now that CCP have an ever growing problem on their hans which is the skillpoint gap between players, but needless to say to simply nerf of the top of the food chain to make things less far apart is no solution, this was also done in a way the is nothing less than clumsy, where cap depandant races such as gallante and amarr that were having serious cap issues before patch are no facing a dead end and players that have maxed themselves in these races are either selling of their characters or waiting to cap rig their ships to the brink. Naturally rigging is not working due to the disaster of wrecking and salavaging which is situated somewhere between nonefunctional and broken.
So what have ccp done for the game in short in the last year? They have handed the development of the game to 2 baby seals. They themselves have withdrawn to their offices and are counting money and looking at charts for merger with other companies and action figure sales predicaments in the US. They have failed in almost every item introduced in this patch, say for one the removal of bookmarks. Almost every element introduced superceeds the one before it in its bad design and its none-funcionability, topping it off with nerfing high sp players and their skilltraining to the brink of unusability. they are seemingly more interested in peak users on the server, than facing the tremendous lag issues the server has and is evident to everyone that plays the game, with lag almost becoming worse with every "solution" or "hardware upgrade" ccp claim to be putting into the game.
So in short a monumental failure by ccp to quiet the critics and keep the shrade up that they are still developing the game and not just resting in their offices counting money planning some major market breakthroughs with "additional stuff" from the game, selling out just like everyone else.
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Goberth Ludwig
The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:39:00 -
[3]
Can I have your stuff?
- Gob
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Ortu Konsinni
KIA Corp
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:42:00 -
[4]
I'll just say two things: - Tuxford is in charge of game balance (ship stats, item stats, etc.), he probably had no part in contracts.
- I agree about the map, it looks lovely but I have no time to be staring at pretty animations when I need information fast. I have no clue what you're talking about when you say it's too dark, it's perfect for me, and no my screen brightness or gamma correction are not off scale. --- High quality pics of ALL EVE ships!
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Gadfly Hawke
G-Tek Confederation of Independent Corporations
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:47:00 -
[5]
An interesting rant. I too find the expansion lacking in serious ways, the worst so far (for me) being the nerfing of escrow and the substitution of the contract system. CCP has offered no satisfactory explanation for this. I think the proof will be in the pudding, as measured by subscribers. If subscribers continue to increase then we can figure that CCP really did know what it was doing after all. If subsribers decline (which is what I expect) then we can conclude the opposite.
G-Tek is recruiting |
Dei
Crystaline Green Order of the Khanid Crown
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:47:00 -
[6]
First sentence, last paragraph - it's "charade" not "shrade".
I think what most people forget is that it's pretty hard to code a game and make it 100% flawless. The devs have already said that they're fixing contracts to make them more user-friendly and sortable.
The map, yes, it needs a couple of fixes to make it rotate all the way round and stop that weird 'warp' graphic when you zoom out. But I think it looks 'cool' too. As do many other people.
Invention and t2 BPOs, hmm...I don't see what the problem is. You want a t2 BPO? You'd rather they gave t2 BPO's to newbies? You've got to find the mix between keeping the vets interested, and give the newbs something to work for. Invention is something for the newbs to try their hand at, while the vets hold the t2 market until the newbs catch up.
Of course it needs a bit of fixing and playing around. But I don't think it's the 'worst' patch ever. I've been in my fair share of MMO's, and there's definately been worse than the Kali release.
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Cupertino
Castellum
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:47:00 -
[7]
Why do you have a problem with baby seals?
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d026
Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader The Pentagram
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:48:00 -
[8]
i have to agree on some points. also feel that this patch added more anoyances than stuff actually giving me more pleasure playing (ok the new ships and the easy probing are nice) but the new looting system inc wrecks sucks, i hate the contracts as they are right now (so much more loved the old escrow!) the map sucks bad ass.. server performance is worse than ever and ia lso dont like the idea of the new 0.0 drone space. anyway you cant do it right for everybody..
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Xaroth Brook
Minmatar Doomcraft
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:49:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Deep Throat
Contracts; just who the hell came up with this? that person(Tuxford) should be fired yesterday. the best thing about market and player exchange, infact the only thing that makes that thing work, is to be able to scroll abit, take a look over it, find what it is u are looking for.
Read.The.Fkin.Forums .. They have told that they are LOOKING into adding things to make searching contracts a bit more easy.. but even if they didn't.. it's MORE SEARCH-ABLE than the old ESCROW.. quit *****ing and wait for the additions.
Originally by: Deep Throat
MAP: omg. to quote a developer; "it simply looked cool". well it sure may, but does it function? not at all. opening up map is like tucking in your parachute while driving down the freeway at 150m per hour. would u do it? on top of that, its so dark u need a flashlight to actually make something out, that is ofcaurse if u have mastered the unflatten-flatten limbo which is sadly a deadly necessity for orientation for this marvellous excellance in graphic design.
Maybe you should read the OPTIONS tab on the MAP DISPLAY.. it has an option to TURN IT OFF.. sure, the map looks dark.. but hey, be glad it's not as bright as the sun, since it might burn your skin.
Originally by: Deep Throat
They and they alone can make these t2 items and therefore hold a perfect monopoly position over everyone else, in addition CCP closed the t2 lottery machine, and hence nobody else can actually go out there, in this player driven game and do anything about it.
where do you get that info? there are still agents giving away T2 bpo's.. if one could only READ the agent description...
on another note, one could also Read.Teh.Fkin.Forums (part deux) ... and read that they are LOOKING INTO IT.. again.. quit *****ing about things they are already aware of.
Originally by: Deep Throat
so from this postition we get to see event such as: owners of t2 bpo coming together and deciding to spike up the price(L guns for example went up 10-15m in a short period of time), ammunition has been steady at 200-300% above its production costs not to mention the cloaking devices and the heavy assault ships, which would take a page and a half of their own.
The point being, if this was truly player driven and realistic, ppl would go out there and get into this themselves, they would try everything they could to avoid paying 200-500% on top of the item which is the reality on eve market, but in eve they cant, cause its really not player driven, its ccp driven when they introduced the limited and stupifying lottery system which has no spiralled into what is now known as the t2 tychoons. Their wealth and control over the game is monumental which can be summarized into the fact, that when a person im accuinted with got lucky and got one of the interdictor bpos recently, he was offered 25 billion for it instanteanously, when he declinied he was offered a few days later the sum of 45 billions for it, again he declined and was then offered 60 billion for it.
Invention, anybody? you can take a T1 BPC, which is commonly availible.. feed the station some things you can get from your R&D agent for no effort (you just have to get one).. and a few hours later, and a bit of luck, you got yourself a nice shiny T2 BPC.. aint that pretty? and then you take that nice and shiney BPC, and manufacter it.. end result: a T2 ship.. or even better.. a ****ton of T2 ammo! all for around 110% 'normal' production cost.......
I say you take a second look at your 'oppinions' .. and quit acting like a wow troller who thinks they have to nerf things just because the loud-mouths say so.
I'm happy with how things changed.. I like how Invention works, the new map DOES look nice, the Rigs are worth the effort and hopefully soon we'll see the full glory of expeditions.. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Xaroth Brook Brainiac of Doomcraft |
Genericforumalt
Minmatar Republic University
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Deep Throat ANGER
With all due respect I think you're being a bit harsh, the new features just came out and are being adjusted.
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Sith8
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:53:00 -
[11]
Yep that about sums it up. Nerf all the T2 stuff that took months to train. Reinforce the blob with 50% more hit points. Make battle last longer? I have been in a battle where the node crashed not once, not twice but FIVE times. How about letting the node last longer.
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portney
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:55:00 -
[12]
I know of at least one long-time very dedicated player (Copeland/ElScorpio (COL) - check your killed-mails, dudes) that is quitting as a result of this latest fiasco...
And I am only here to say that i think it is sad that CCP can't provide a stable platform for all of us to play the game on, and adapt to changes in a non-discriminatory fashion.
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Marhly Falter
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Posted - 2006.12.07 00:58:00 -
[13]
I agree with almost everything DT said.
If a feature isnt ready - DONT RELEASE IT - its that simple.
Ergonomics is something the eve dev team need to consider when developing the interface, and they can snort and stamp feet over their phillipe stark tea cups as much as they like, if building a ship takes less clicks than changing ammo.. I dont get it.
I guess I never understood collecting things. I dont collect stamps, I don't like to play with dolls, pokemon doesnt mean anything to me, nor does (sorry to say) a card game.
I liked eve because it was hard. Clueless people looked at things such as the scanner and ran away screaming - with patience and intelligence it became clear how it worked - not to mention discussion with friends in game.
Intelligence learns from its mistakes - this patch has been a mistake, and I hope CCP demonstrate they aren't stupid.
Still playing, so no you can't have my stuff yet
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Crumplecorn
Gallente Aerial Boundaries Inc. Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:09:00 -
[14]
The thing that really gives this argument merit is CCP's constant statements that they aren't even going to look into the problems with the new features, let alone try to fix them, the way they completely ignore user's opinions, and their belief that testing with a couple of hundred players on sisi is enough testing to finalise any feature and never change it again. ----------
IBTL \o/ EVE is upside down! WTZ+Slower Warp=Win |
Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:11:00 -
[15]
its xmas they will press on with kali 2 might balance some things then.
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
d026
Herrscher der Zeit Jagdgeschwader The Pentagram
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:21:00 -
[16]
Edited by: d026 on 07/12/2006 01:20:43 trust me kali 2 wil make things worse:)
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Miri Tirzan
Caldari Reikoku Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:23:00 -
[17]
Well, despite all the player input, which seemed to be mainly ignored by CCP there are several problems I have with the new content.
1. New ships: Only one race got a new ship - Rohk, the rest got not as good versions of exisiting ships.
2. Probes: They dumbed them down to the point that no one can hide anywhere from anyone. This no brainer for CCP has already gotten the few that went to low sec and were not pirates to head back to high sec. Good job there. In high sec it introduced a new way to grief mission runners - Oh, yeah the game needed that.
3. Hit Point increase: Yeah, we really needed the hit point increase. What did it do? Made energy using turret races have new and exciting cap issues. It nerfed the Minnies alpha strike. It may have helped lenghten fights but it also buffed missile and projectile using races. This also buffed shield tankers since they passively regen over time.
4. Cap increase: To keep the hybrid and laser using races able to fire thier weapons, ALL ships got a cap increase. Another buff to projectile and missile using races. Why? Because they are not using thier cap to fire weapons, they now have more cap for tanking which means that they got another Hit Point boost above what the cap using races did.
5. Contacts: This is just about the worst thing they have done to kill the economy. Alot of players and corps sold thier products but now they cannot. Sure, CCP says they are going to fix it, but why did they not get it right first?
So Tux may be in charge of balance but he got many a logical response on why his doing things across the board does not work. It took years of tweeks to get the game balance that there was before the patch. It was not perfect but it was not terribly bad if you did not use lasers. Tux comes in and instead of tweeking individual ships to keep them balanced, he does the once change fits all with out noticing that every race is not the same.
No, I am not quiting. No, you cannot have my stuff. But I listen every day for the popping sound of Tux pulling his head out, looking around and realising that he just majorily unbalanced the game.
svetlana - "whining gets you stuff. that is why humans got to the top of the food chain and all the other animals got nerfed."
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Perseus D'Solos
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:24:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Perseus D''Solos on 07/12/2006 01:24:24 Signed in triplicate. Still hoping for an eleventh hour redemption rush by CCP though, so I'll keep my account for now.
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Seldarine
Arcane Technologies The Five
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:39:00 -
[19]
I agree with this post pretty much 100%
I think everything that needs to be said has been said, they gotta fix this and get someone who understands the game mechanics making the decisions. ______________________________ ______________________________
Seldarine
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Barbarellas Daughter
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Marhly Falter I liked eve because it was hard. Clueless people looked at things such as the scanner and ran away screaming - with patience and intelligence it became clear how it worked - not to mention discussion with friends in game.
Now the clueless people are looking at the contracts and run away screaming
And yes, with patience and intelligence it becomes clear how it works
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Miss Overlord
Gallente Ferrum Pugnus New Eve Order
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:43:00 -
[21]
need a x10 increase in the seeding of overall exploration spots at least 3 per dt per system
These posts represent my personal views and not those of my corp or alliance. These do not reflect offical alliance or corp views
This is a disclaimer |
Telemicus Thrace
Thrace Inc Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:43:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Telemicus Thrace on 07/12/2006 01:46:01 Wow, all these negative waves man.
The contracts system is great. Works fine for me and the search option has been spot on. No more "Select top 10000 from" filter causing your escrow to vanish under all the scams. Proper item exchange, mineral / production contracts. I'm having a great time with it and all from my POS
The map takes some getting used to but once you disable the animations I have found it faster than the old one. The dual information hover thingy is great. Being able to see say Pilots in sys and Ship kills in the last hour at the same time is great.
The whole invention / salvage thing will take a while to hit momentum but I can see great stuff coming out of that. I was never under the impression that invention was to compete with T2 production, just to give people an alternative route to T2 gear. I already have a Stabber BPO, I have a tonne of RP that's been building up. Once I find the other cores I'll be able to get myself in a Vaga for pocket change (relatively speaking) and then fly it like it was meant to be flown, not all stabbed up and cloaked. (Yes, that's my opinion, you are allowed to put stabs & cloaks on your Vaga if you want. To me it's like pink embroidered seat covers in a WRX).
All the combat changes will take some getting used to but already I have seen hunts getting shorter (running between safespots can't hide you for as long now) and firefights getting longer which is fun when you have a limited window to play in.
Anyway, I think this is one of the smoothest patches I have seen to date. Some of the contents like my T2 sniper losing range like that has rattled me but I have already adapted my tactics and I'm trying new things.
Anyway, thumbs up CCP from me. It's party season down under and with all this talk of baby seals I reckon it's time to go clubbing.
>> RECRUITING << |
Thomas Maleficus
Caldari Monkeys With Syphilis
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Posted - 2006.12.07 01:51:00 -
[23]
Still kind of new to rpgs and mmo, but what does it mean when you buff somthing in a game? What are buffs? Pirates stole my signature. |
Capt Harlock
Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:00:00 -
[24]
My pov, warp to 0 \0/ wcs nerf \0/ EW nerf \0/ they could of done those things in a week 12 months ago and made me happy. I feel i've been waiting 12 months for a bunch of pre nerfed/broken content. But yay for the stuff i mentioned first.
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Trem Sinval
Sinval Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:02:00 -
[25]
Official Dev Response
Quote: we are paying for their product
Yes, we are. Don't like it, stop paying for it. Leave, and never return. You wouldn't keep buying bread from the same baker if it were always moldy, why keep paying for a game (and by extension, maintain your forum access) that you obviously find so odious to play?
I like the new Contracts system, because now I don't have to wade through 8,000 entries for BM's, implants, and ship BP's if all I'm looking for is the escrow I just tried to send myself, or a specific module. If they shorten up the listing, and push it all onto one page, it'll be perfect.
I like the new Map. It requires a different way of using it, sure. But it's not broken, and it's certainly still functional, all while being absolutely badass to look at. Different != broken.
Shall we put in another t2 whine? Whines only get you cheese. Constructive ideas get implemented. Does your friend possess any more or less luck than someone who finds a TS hardener? A DG missile launcher? An officer cap recharger? No. In each case, the player is given an opportunity for profits (to whit, your friend there sounds like he should hold out for more money! ). Granted, I don't agree with the t2 situation either, but invention is supposed to fix it; let's wait to see how this system pans out before we bash it.
All in all, either play the game or don't. It's your $15 a month, but I for one am sick of hearing the WLB syndrome when EVE forces you to think for a moment.
- Trem - Trem |
Kylania
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:05:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Thomas Maleficus Still kind of new to rpgs and mmo, but what does it mean when you buff somthing in a game? What are buffs?
A "buff" is to make something better or more powerful.
A "nerf" is to make something less effective or worse, usually because it was overpowered to begin with and was being abused. -- Lil Miner Newbie Skills Roadmap | CCG Card Lookup |
Molten Platypii
Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:05:00 -
[27]
Bleh, I'm just sick of CCP acting like each patch is going to be the next panacea. I've read these forums for a few years and it's always the same. The game developers tout new features and how great they'll be, however when the features are released there's a general let down in the community.
This past year has felt like CCP has primarily had to put out fires instead of spending the necessary time to design and develop features.
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:11:00 -
[28]
What I love about the forums is that if you just read the non-sticky stuff eve should have been dead on creation.. Still going on strong though so I don't put too much relevance on forum predictions or opinions.. KALI:Revelations.. Putting the Waaaa back in Piwat.. |
MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:22:00 -
[29]
I'd have to agree with most of this
Don't like the new map Probing is now stupidly easy Scanner is lame Rigs are going to be stupidly expensive T2 invention costs about as much as buying the item anyway Hit points nerfed Amarr and Minmatar
blah blah...
But hey... could be fixed soon I hope. -=====-
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Brolly
Caldari The Department of Justice
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Posted - 2006.12.07 02:24:00 -
[30]
Aye, developers of games worldwide toot the tune of 'this next thing will be the coolest' and every time we're let down.
Still we keep paying
We suck
If I had ú1 for every intelligent comment posted in general discussion, I'd be hideously in debt |
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