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Eva Isu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.08.07 19:37:52 -
[1] - Quote
My experience's playing MMO's have only strengthen the bellow theory for me.
We are not living in a real universe but living in a simulated universe, and we're being simulated on the hard drives of computers in the future. You can get this conclusion with a few simple steps, just by making few assumptions, the assumptions are very strong and plausible assumptions.
Assumption 1 - You simply have to acknowledge consciousness is at its bottom a result from information processing at the level the of the brain and there is nothing magical about brain. The information processing could be processing on a future computer. Most scientists think that's true they don't think there's anything magical about the brain in our heads and all predict that consciousness will at some point in the future be created on a computer.
Assumption 2- If assumption 1 hold true and that humans one day imbue consciousness into a computer, you simply have to grant that humans in the future will run simulations of the past, in the way that we run simulations in games like the Sims or Rome total war or eve online.
The first two assumptions are quite likely true and very plausible then from that point we only have to take a short movement to assumption 3.
Assumption 3- simulated universes almost by definition, will outnumber real universes if they can run one simulation people of the future will likely run many and therefore simply by playing the odds we're a lot more likely to be living in one of the many simulated ancestor universes that the lone original universe. Everyone acknowledges that the idea seems crazy, But the assumptions are very strong.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
591
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Posted - 2015.08.07 21:37:26 -
[2] - Quote
Its hypothesis not a theory, you dont have evidence it could exist in the first place. You can't test or experiment somehow to prove that everything is simulated.
Your problem is metaphysical.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Khaleesi Hekki
Avalon Project Shadow Rock Alliance
2
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Posted - 2015.08.07 22:16:45 -
[3] - Quote
Eva Isu wrote: We are not living in a real universe but living in a simulated universe, and we're being simulated on the hard drives of computers in the future. .
Feeling like you're living in the Matrix?
The girl with the Caldari tattoo......
Never underestimate stupid!
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Eva Isu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.08.07 22:27:49 -
[4] - Quote
Khaleesi Hekki wrote:Eva Isu wrote: We are not living in a real universe but living in a simulated universe, and we're being simulated on the hard drives of computers in the future. .
Feeling like you're living in the Matrix?
A little bit yeah. |
Eva Isu
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2015.08.07 22:50:32 -
[5] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Its hypothesis not a theory, you dont have evidence it could exist in the first place. You can't test or experiment somehow to prove that everything is simulated.
Your problem is metaphysical.
I'm not saying I have evidence I'm not saying its true, I'm saying it is possible. And it's a more viable hypothesis than the whole god nonsence.
edit - mind blown, what if god is a fat teenager in the year 3234 running an ancestor simulation. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
593
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Posted - 2015.08.07 23:31:18 -
[6] - Quote
You are obliterating boundaries of meaning of the "real" and "simulated", Your simulation hence becomes as real as reality in which simulation takes place.
Because: how can you distinguish simulation from reality, when your simulation is reality for you? You can't.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
12225
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Posted - 2015.08.08 05:33:56 -
[7] - Quote
Eva Isu wrote:[quote=Nana Skalski]And it's a more viable hypothesis than the whole god nonsence. But you just defined a god. The creator of a system, ruler of a computer simulation, the admin, is a god, or a God.
The rest is hypothesis you've only presented, or a conclusion but from no foundational presentation. The actual applied science emerges from black hole physics and from which the hypothesis or the theory of the digital universe which it's known as.
I tend to enjoy the theory of the holographic universe, which is also from the digital universe. Many representations, but I'd go with no hard drive as we know it, more likely a sphere where everything really exists on (like a 2d plane), and then projected within a spacial cavity of the sphere. I guess in reverse it would be something like a whiteboard, but rather we are in 2d while the whiteboard is 3d. But not simply 2d, but another dimensional layer, which in a way could be microscopically close to the 3d dimension; as another layer. Think of it in general terms, since I'm not outside of it to explain it. Anyway, if anything like that is the case, then that would probably amount to this being something like a hatchery for inelegant life rather than just a simple simulation.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
604
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Posted - 2015.08.08 05:51:06 -
[8] - Quote
O great programmer, send us a "hello world" in the sky.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
206
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Posted - 2015.08.08 08:02:41 -
[9] - Quote
If you care to think about it a 3d image on a flat screen is basically nothing else than software and electricity. Everything is possible; after all an advanced VR headset can make you feel immersed in an universe that is basically only zeroes and ones processed by a computer. Future tech may offer more advanced method of immersion like full suites with sensors and neural stimulants for a deeper immersion and higher realism.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
12245
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Posted - 2015.08.08 10:05:27 -
[10] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:O great programmer, send us a "hello world" in the sky. I would imaging that to be the reaction of most of the indigenous population of Matar to say just before the Amarr would vaporize most and haul the rest away to slave pleasure hubs for their amusement. Careful what you wish for
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
630
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Posted - 2015.08.08 13:51:15 -
[11] - Quote
I do not care. Matari, Amarr, the same for me.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2080
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Posted - 2015.08.09 03:03:36 -
[12] - Quote
So, we are like here?: Cosmic Gate - This Is The Party hmmm...
ITT: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
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Snagletooth Johnson
Snagle Material Services CAStabouts
265
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Posted - 2015.08.10 03:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Its hypothesis not a theory, you dont have evidence it could exist in the first place. You can't test or experiment somehow to prove that everything is simulated.
Your problem is metaphysical.
I have proven beyond any doubt that in fact sex can be simulated. *cough* i have tested and retested this throughly for many years *cough decades cough* |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
206
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Posted - 2015.08.10 09:48:53 -
[14] - Quote
Outside of the topic but not entirely since it is a procedurally generated universe:
http://en.spaceengine.org/
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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voetius
Quiet Days in Clichy
360
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Posted - 2015.08.10 20:49:56 -
[15] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Its hypothesis not a theory, you dont have evidence it could exist in the first place. You can't test or experiment somehow to prove that everything is simulated.
Your problem is metaphysical.
^ What Nana said. Your problem is a metaphysical problem. Not a question of science.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem
The demarcation problem is about how distinguish science from metaphysics. Your 'hypothesis' fails because it cannot be falsified. You might be interested in finding out a bit more about this, I recommend Popper "Logic of Scientific Discovery" and a more popular treatment in "The Pig that wants to be eaten" by Baggini. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9006
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Posted - 2015.08.10 20:56:24 -
[16] - Quote
In reading these forums every day, I have developed a theory of my own.
Intelligence is an evolutionary dead end.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Eurydia Vespasian
Storm Hunters Disturbed Acquaintance
18628
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Posted - 2015.08.11 18:16:04 -
[17] - Quote
Whoever is my programmer should have made me get a better nights sleep yesterday. |
Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4232
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Posted - 2015.08.11 18:27:33 -
[18] - Quote
voetius wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Its hypothesis not a theory, you dont have evidence it could exist in the first place. You can't test or experiment somehow to prove that everything is simulated.
Your problem is metaphysical. ^ What Nana said. Your problem is a metaphysical problem. Not a question of science. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem The demarcation problem is about how distinguish science from metaphysics. Your 'hypothesis' fails because it cannot be falsified. You might be interested in finding out a bit more about this, I recommend Popper "Logic of Scientific Discovery" and a more popular treatment in "The Pig that wants to be eaten" by Baggini. Cool stuff, gives a name to what I was feeling about the OP but couldn't quite put into words.
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2185
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:31:03 -
[19] - Quote
Organisms become more complex in a competition of procreation. Consciousness is just added complexity and studies show that we are far less conscious than we think we are. Most of our lives are automated.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
12497
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Posted - 2015.08.14 12:37:35 -
[20] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Organisms become more complex in a competition of procreation. Consciousness is just added complexity and studies show that we are far less conscious than we think we are. Most of our lives are automated. Only until my first cup of coffee of the day. Otherwise I'm the tree outside my bedroom window. When I was a baby, I never had these issues, I KNEW that the universe revolved around me. Now I gotta like pretend it doesn't sort of
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2190
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:10:16 -
[21] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Organisms become more complex in a competition of procreation. Consciousness is just added complexity and studies show that we are far less conscious than we think we are. Most of our lives are automated. Only until my first cup of coffee of the day. Otherwise I'm the tree outside my bedroom window. When I was a baby, I never had these issues, I KNEW that the universe revolved around me. Now I gotta like pretend it doesn't sort of Your world or the perception you have of it does spin on your senses. We can't prove that anything is real.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39498
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:38:56 -
[22] - Quote
This is not new. It's been around in published form since at least 2003.
While I don't like to use Wikipedia normally, it sums up the general arguments well:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
844
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Posted - 2015.08.17 07:26:27 -
[23] - Quote
Webvan wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Organisms become more complex in a competition of procreation. Consciousness is just added complexity and studies show that we are far less conscious than we think we are. Most of our lives are automated. Only until my first cup of coffee of the day. Otherwise I'm the tree outside my bedroom window. When I was a baby, I never had these issues, I KNEW that the universe revolved around me. Now I gotta like pretend it doesn't sort of
Universe is a "know". Human is a watcher. He have limited vision.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú my sandcastle
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Webvan
All Kill No Skill
12605
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Posted - 2015.08.18 11:44:46 -
[24] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Your world or the perception you have of it does spin on your senses. We can't prove that anything is real. That seems more a philosophical argument, coming from someplace and going anywhere. Yet if one had all their senses stripped away, they would still remain a point of singularity. I do believe that the scientific method does recognizes life. Consciousness is observable as well as life. We may not be able to understand it nor even truly create it, but it's there. Just because you can't understand something, yet still being observable, doesn't mean it's not there. But lots of people like to sell books, so about every philosophy is out there.
There is "real" I just don't think we have even scratched the surface of what that "real" could be. But it's observable, even if just as a reflection in a pond.
I'm in it for the money
Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4182
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Posted - 2015.08.18 20:38:50 -
[25] - Quote
I heard this on a radio talk show once:
Caller: GÇ£IGÇÖm having trouble with my husband. He believes that weGÇÖre all in some kind of game, like Dungeons & Dragons. He thinks that demigods are competing against each other and controlling us as characters. If your demigod is playing well, you do well in life. But if your demigod is messing up, thinks are really screwed up for you.GÇ¥
Psychologist host: GÇ£I see. And how does this affect your and his lives?GÇ¥
Caller: GÇ£Well, heGÇÖs really depressed. He thinks his demigod is a really horrible player. And thereGÇÖs no hope that heGÇÖll ever get any better.GÇ¥
You're trying to conquer me
You never will conquer me
-Delroy Wilson
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Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2096
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Posted - 2015.08.18 20:59:46 -
[26] - Quote
music to listen to while contemplating the ideas discussed in this thread
My musical and interpretive dance reaction after thinking about these things a lot
ITT: ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
853
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Posted - 2015.08.18 21:06:04 -
[27] - Quote
Azathoth, he plays as he likes.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ GòáGò¼GòªGò¼Gòú my sandcastle
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
8942
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:19:04 -
[28] - Quote
Webvan wrote:I do believe that the scientific method does recognizes life.
Watch this.
My observation is that everything is dead, but in motion.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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Khergit Deserters
Crom's Angels
4198
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Posted - 2015.08.29 01:07:47 -
[29] - Quote
OK, consider this: Old Vedic gurus (professional technicians at mentally/transmentally exploring the reality of reality) say that this is just one universe, among many. One nice guy among them reduced it down to a very simplistic visualizable image: The universe we know is like the gondola hanging from a hot air balloon. The rest of it is like the balloon itself.
Anyway, the idea is that this particular universe has a certain set of laws organizing it. For example, organisms have finite life spans. And they spend them going through a cycle of plant seed/egg/embryo, growth to maturity, reproducing, aging, and degeneration until the organism expires. Could be a human, could be a squid, could be a dandelion weed. Does life in all universes have to follow the same pattern? Not necessarily, eh?
Another example: Differentiation of sexes. It goes all the way back to flowering plants. The organisms in this universe's set of laws have expend huge amounts of energy, hoping that an alien organism will carry their pollen and fertilize an opposite member of the species. Or, at the mammal level, that a member of the opposite gender will like/trust them enough to form a pollinating union. Is it really the only way to continue life and consciousness? Not necessarily, eh? For a primitive example, if we think about electronic AI: To keep going, Would a Computer Need to Mate with an Electric Opposite Sex? Joke. Said another way, is there any reason that perpetuation needs a joining of females and males of the species, going through periods of helplessness (infancy), potency and competition vs. members of all species (adulthood), and another period of infirmity (old age)?
According to the Vedic experiencers, those are the unbreakable laws of our universe. But not the laws of every universe. They also believe that this universe might be one the toughest of all for the inhabitants. It's not easy having a body that's experiencing the real realities of organic and social life in this system, but also having a mind that's capable of understanding the realities of other possible systems. The opportunity to be in a body and experience the randomness of physical reality, while also having the ability to understand thing's beyond this set of laws.... that's what makes this particular universe's rules kind of special. A mind, a body, and mosquitoes and other thing battling in chemical organic rules.
Main source, among many others: Paramahansa Yogananda, Autobiography of a Yogi
You're trying to conquer me
You never will conquer me
-Delroy Wilson
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
8970
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Posted - 2015.08.29 06:05:24 -
[30] - Quote
Consciousness is a process like many others and it still is ruled by this universes law. Also by other processes in body. These rules and processes state what is consciousness and its properties.
That is why people take drugs. There is need to go "beyond", curiosity, they want to break these rules, to go "beyond". Effect is usually damaging for consciousness. Because of rules being broken and processes disturbed. Some kind of karma you could say. Sentient consciousness is still being slave to those rules, and can choose, but must choose wisely.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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