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solrac lara
The Soul Society DeepSpace.
8
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Posted - 2015.08.09 21:38:42 -
[1] - Quote
Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1054
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Posted - 2015.08.09 21:40:17 -
[2] - Quote
solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. T2 capitals are a thing. Jump Freighters.
As to why there aren't more: they can't even get the ones we have into a comfortable balance. We damned sure don't need T2 variations of them right now. |
OverlordY
Interspan
19
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Posted - 2015.08.09 22:14:11 -
[3] - Quote
T2 Modules for them would be good. Its about time really... |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5221
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Posted - 2015.08.09 22:49:15 -
[4] - Quote
solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. To avoid further power creep.
Carriers and dreadnoughts are arguably "okay" as-is. They still need a little bit of tuning though. |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2692
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Posted - 2015.08.10 01:30:36 -
[5] - Quote
OverlordY wrote:T2 Modules for them would be good. Its about time really... Hell, scorch might be the savior the rev needs. |
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6827
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Posted - 2015.08.10 01:56:59 -
[6] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. T2 capitals are a thing. Jump Freighters. As to why there aren't more: they can't even get the ones we have into a comfortable balance. We damned sure don't need T2 variations of them right now.
Freighters, and jump freighters, aren't capitals. I suggest you look up the definition of 'capital ship' before asserting otherwise.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
890
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Posted - 2015.08.10 02:12:49 -
[7] - Quote
Fun fact: T2 Siege and Triage modules didn't exist until the Crucible expansion. |
Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1061
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Posted - 2015.08.10 02:18:47 -
[8] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. T2 capitals are a thing. Jump Freighters. As to why there aren't more: they can't even get the ones we have into a comfortable balance. We damned sure don't need T2 variations of them right now. Freighters, and jump freighters, aren't capitals. I suggest you look up the definition of 'capital ship' before asserting otherwise. They are technically considered capitals, regardless of the fact that they do not require the Capital Ship skill. Much the same could be said of the Orca. Feel free to check their location in the item database if you disagree. |
Primary This Rifter
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
891
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Posted - 2015.08.10 02:23:07 -
[9] - Quote
I gotta say I really hate having/seeing this argument over and over again. I'd love if CCP could resolve it once and for all. Preferably by putting them elsewhere in the market instead of under the "Capitals" tab. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
39488
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Posted - 2015.08.10 02:26:55 -
[10] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. T2 capitals are a thing. Jump Freighters. As to why there aren't more: they can't even get the ones we have into a comfortable balance. We damned sure don't need T2 variations of them right now. Freighters, and jump freighters, aren't capitals. I suggest you look up the definition of 'capital ship' before asserting otherwise. Like this one:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ships:Capital_Ships
But then of course there is this one:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capital_ship
If CCP can't even get it straight, there's no surprise that there would also be different views in the player community, all of which are right if you use CCP sources as a reference.
So that would make freighters and jump freighters both Capital ships and not Capital ships at the same time. Go figure.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1061
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Posted - 2015.08.10 02:29:14 -
[11] - Quote
Primary This Rifter wrote:I really hate having/seeing this argument over and over again. I'd love if CCP could resolve it once and for all. Preferably by putting them elsewhere in the market instead of under the "Capitals" tab. And when they do, they really need to come up with a better name for the components used to make all of them (especially the Jump Freighters, since those components are used for literally nothing but JFs). |
Remiel Pollard
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
6827
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Posted - 2015.08.10 02:44:25 -
[12] - Quote
Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. T2 capitals are a thing. Jump Freighters. As to why there aren't more: they can't even get the ones we have into a comfortable balance. We damned sure don't need T2 variations of them right now. Freighters, and jump freighters, aren't capitals. I suggest you look up the definition of 'capital ship' before asserting otherwise. They are technically considered capitals, regardless of the fact that they do not require the Capital Ship skill. Much the same could be said of the Orca. Feel free to check their location in the item database if you disagree.
Unless you've seen freighters being used as front-line combat ships, then there is nothing 'technical' about it, they aren't capital ships, regardless of their arbitrary place of listing on the market or what in-game materials are required to build them, which was probably done out of coding convenience. Again, look up the definition of capital ship before asserting otherwise. I will provide an excerpt:
The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they generally possess the heaviest firepower and armor and are traditionally much larger than other naval vessels. A capital ship is generally a leading or a primary ship in a naval fleet.
GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'.
Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥
- Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
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Gallowmere Rorschach
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
1063
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Posted - 2015.08.10 02:48:41 -
[13] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Unless you've seen freighters being used as front-line combat ships, then there is nothing 'technical' about it, they aren't capital ships, regardless of their arbitrary place of listing on the market or what in-game materials are required to build them, which was probably done out of coding convenience. Again, look up the definition of capital ship before asserting otherwise. I will provide an excerpt: The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they generally possess the heaviest firepower and armor and are traditionally much larger than other naval vessels. A capital ship is generally a leading or a primary ship in a naval fleet. I would agree with you, if not for the fact that they insisted upon calling the JF T2 components Capital xxxxx xxxxx, and those components are used for nothing other than Jump Freighter construction. I could give a pass on the T1 stuff, simply because, hell, even POS towers require Capital Construction Parts to build.
However, they made a specific line of components, for a specific line of ships, with the word Capital in every single one of them. Jump Freighters.
Sounds to me like CCP need to make up their damned minds. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4073
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Posted - 2015.08.10 05:46:02 -
[14] - Quote
Since CCP is unclear, here's my definition: capital ship is anything that has a jump drive.
So JF and Rorq yes, freighter and orca no.
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
1009
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Posted - 2015.08.10 05:52:20 -
[15] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Since CCP is unclear, here's my definition: capital ship is anything that has a jump drive.
So JF and Rorq yes, freighter and orca no. Black Ops are capitals, guys.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5225
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Posted - 2015.08.10 05:52:30 -
[16] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Since CCP is unclear, here's my definition: capital ship is anything that has a jump drive.
So JF and Rorq yes, freighter and orca no. ... and Black Ops?
Gotcha! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
4073
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Posted - 2015.08.10 05:55:56 -
[17] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Gully Alex Foyle wrote:Since CCP is unclear, here's my definition: capital ship is anything that has a jump drive.
So JF and Rorq yes, freighter and orca no. ... and Black Ops? Gotcha! nah, that's a special covert snowflake jump drive, doesn't count
Make space glamorous!
Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
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Reppyk
The Black Shell
792
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Posted - 2015.08.10 13:19:12 -
[18] - Quote
Orcas and freighters let capital wrecks behind them.
My 2 cents...
I AM SPACE CAPTAIN REPPYK. BEWARE.
Proud co-admin of frugu.net, a French fansite about EVE !
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25573
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Posted - 2015.08.10 13:45:43 -
[19] - Quote
For GÇ£capital shipGÇ¥ to be a meaningful class, it needs to be defined on characteristics that set that class aside from all ships of other classes.
So, characteristics that are common and unique to all obvious capital ships: GÇó Need a (S)CSAA to be assembled at a POS GÇó Have the Capital Ship skill as a prerequisite. GÇó Can use XL-sized modules GÇó Have to use XL-sized rigs GÇó Cannot be constructed and are not allowed in highsec except by grandfathering. GÇó GëÑ1Tg mass to restrict their wormhole travel. (GÇó Up until recently, couldn't even use star gates but had to rely on jumpingGǪ).
Characteristics that offer no help at all GÇó Market placement (contains lots of ships that share none of the capship characteristics, per the above). GÇó Advanced Starship Command (used for lots of ships that share none of the capship characteristics) GÇó Packed volume GëÑ1.3Mm-¦ (same for lots of ships that share none of the capship characteristics) GÇó Sheer size (some battleships compete in size).
Characteristics that are not unique to capital ships GÇó Jump drives (blops) GÇó Construction components (blops)
If we check the oddball ships against this: GÇó Freighters, JFs and Indy Command ships only need LSAAs. GÇó Freighters, JFs and Indy Command ships don't require the Capital Ship skill. GÇó Freighters, JFs and Indy Command ships can't used XL-sized modules. GÇó Freighters, and JFs can't use rigs; Indy Command uses L-sized rigs. GÇó Freighters, JFs and Indy Command ships are allowed and can be constructed in highsec. GÇó Freighters, JFs and Indy Command ships all have <1Tg mass. GÇó Indy Command ships have <1.3Mm-¦ packed volume. GÇó Indy Command ships don't require Advanced Starship Command
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
1011
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Posted - 2015.08.10 14:03:02 -
[20] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Gallowmere Rorschach wrote:solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case. T2 capitals are a thing. Jump Freighters. As to why there aren't more: they can't even get the ones we have into a comfortable balance. We damned sure don't need T2 variations of them right now. Freighters, and jump freighters, aren't capitals. I suggest you look up the definition of 'capital ship' before asserting otherwise. They are technically considered capitals, regardless of the fact that they do not require the Capital Ship skill. Much the same could be said of the Orca. Feel free to check their location in the item database if you disagree. Unless you've seen freighters being used as front-line combat ships, then there is nothing 'technical' about it, they aren't capital ships, regardless of their arbitrary place of listing on the market or what in-game materials are required to build them, which was probably done out of coding convenience. Again, look up the definition of capital ship before asserting otherwise. I will provide an excerpt: The capital ships of a navy are its most important warships; they generally possess the heaviest firepower and armor and are traditionally much larger than other naval vessels. A capital ship is generally a leading or a primary ship in a naval fleet. Your disagreement is with CCP then. We're not wrong to use their own classification in the context of a conversation about their game.
They're listed as capital ships on the market and 12 of 16 parts used between the T1/T2 variants contain the word "capital". If you want to claim this is only done out of convenience you'll need to provide evidence to that effect.
There are all our dominion
Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25575
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Posted - 2015.08.10 14:11:48 -
[21] - Quote
McChicken Combo HalfMayo wrote:Your disagreement is with CCP then. We're not wrong to use their own classification in the context of a conversation about their game. But that's just it: CCP has no consistent classification, which is why this debate keeps popping up.
We have four types of ships that are very obviously caps; we have a prerequisite size that is very obviously not capships, and then we have two (and a half) types that sit on the fence but which don't actually match the obvious capships in anything that matters.
A proper classification would place (Jump) Freighters and Indy Command ships as simply being L-sized ships with specialist roles that require capital components for those roles, same as blackops battleships.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Commander Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1543
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Posted - 2015.08.10 14:57:23 -
[22] - Quote
Does The ship require the skill:
Skill Completely Trained Capital Ships (14x) SP: 3,584,000 Level 5 ?
If yes, it's very much a capital ship. If no, then why would anyone consider it a capital?
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Spurty
Dimension Door We need wards.
1547
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Posted - 2015.08.10 14:57:23 -
[23] - Quote
Does The ship require the skill:
Skill Completely Trained Capital Ships (14x) SP: 3,584,000 Level 5 ?
If yes, it's very much a capital ship. If no, then why would anyone consider it a capital?
There are good ships
And wood ships
And ships that sail the sea
But the best ships are
Spaceships
Built by CCP
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Shey Nabali
Collapsed Out Pandemic Legion
17
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Posted - 2015.08.12 00:25:13 -
[24] - Quote
You can only doomsday capital ships
You can doomsday Freighters, Jump Freighters, and Rorquals
You cannot doomsday Orcas
/discussion |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon That Escalated Quickly.
1622
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Posted - 2015.08.12 18:13:48 -
[25] - Quote
Power grid and CPU are already tight with the T1 and Meta modules.
TunDraGon is recruiting!
"Also, your boobs [:o] " -á
CCP Eterne, 2012
"When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9042
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Posted - 2015.08.12 18:31:04 -
[26] - Quote
1) Innocent question asked. 2) Derailed by the second post. 3) Massively derailed by the sixth post. 4) Complete off topic shitfest by the end of the first page.
Welcome to General Discussion.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Zura Namee
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
34
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Posted - 2015.08.14 21:51:02 -
[27] - Quote
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/capital-ship-balancing/?_ga=1.58602093.691450666.1430254404
And for those too lazy to read, the interesting bit: "(capital ships being Freighters, Jump Freighters, Carriers, Dreadnoughts, Capital Industrial Ships, Supercarriers and Titans)" - CCP Tallest 2011 |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
382
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Posted - 2015.08.16 08:17:01 -
[28] - Quote
solrac lara wrote:Is more of a noob question why we dont have t2 ammo or guns or anything like that for capital ships or why T2 capital ships arent a thing what would happen if that was the case.
Cause Capital size guns blueprints under the concord management. So concord directors decided it's too early to invent into t2 technology of those. |
Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
168
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Posted - 2015.08.27 18:50:41 -
[29] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Freighters, and jump freighters, aren't capitals. I suggest you look up the definition of 'capital ship' before asserting otherwise.
I checked the blueprints, looks like they are made exclusive from capital parts and nothing else. Sound like capital ships to me.
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=20184 |
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