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Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 08:57:00 -
[151] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:To Reaver Glitterstim: Well thats the whole point of this topic - Not all players have years of learning and having multiple recial skills and not in the last place Amarr weapons ( like many old players told me ) were designed to be the best weapon system but they leave that project and now we drain our capacitors for newbie hits. When I was new, I couldn't understand why my blasters fell short of the nearest targets while my railguns wouldn't track anything that had had more than 5 seconds to approach me. I was convinced that Gallente was severely underpowered. (I also couldn't use drones at the time) The point is, every weapons system has a major drawback or two. Lasers can't change damage types very much. Blasters have terrible range. Railguns still don't have a niche. Drones are often slow and can be shot down pretty easily. Missiles take time to reach their target, and no missile boats can fit up a full rack (except the kestrel). Autocannons have poor dps, and artillery has terrible dps. You have to look at the good things your weapons can provide for you. If you're missioning in laser ships, you should be declining missions that pit you against angel cartel or guristas. Actually you should still be able to fight angel cartel I would think. Just use your lasers to knock out their shields and have minmatar drones finish them off. But you can also look for mission hubs that have 2 agents of the same level at the same base, so that if you get 2 bad missions from one, you have the other as a fallback option. I do that so I can avoid shooting at other highsec factions. And seriously, try using autocannons, blasters, or rails on your laser ship. Sure, you won't get your lovely damage or capacitor bonus, but you don't really need that to win missions. If you have the tank and a little bit of patience, all you need beyond that is the right damage type and a big enough ship for the mission. An abaddon with autocannons can most assuredly take out level 4 angel cartel battleships. I used to fit autocannons on my vexor back when I couldn't yet fly any minmatar ships. I was doing alright in level 2 missions against serpentis, even though I didn't have medium drones and couldn't launch more than 3 small ones. I found out later it was a whole lot easier to do those missions in a cormorant. Point is, I've flown all the races and I can tell you none of them are underpowered. You just have to find what you're good at and avoid what you aren't. Failing that, don't be afraid to cross-train or cross-fit.
Cross training is fine when you know what you want. But what about newbs that have no idea about that? I already have 2 newb friends leaving this game because one didn't know you need few month to start playing this game effectively and other just quit because of he learned you have to cross train to fly Amarr ships in PvP, i.e. without lasers.
It's just sad there is no note on a race selection screen that says: Gallente - good overall, Caldari - Uber PvE, so-so to good PvP, Minmatar - Uber at everything and Amarr - sometimes good, sometimes crap, and you have to crosstrain unlike others. Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
10
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 08:58:00 -
[152] - Quote
Fix My Lasers wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:Hello,i wanted to ask you a few questions for a long time and now the time is good as any i quess.
1.Why all Amarr ships have 1 bonus less (capacitor use bonus is pure bonus eater ) in the place of this capacitor use bonus every other factions have on their ships Tracking speed,Firing range,Rate of fire or Dmg bonus.I will accept this capacitor use ship bonus if only our weapons were better than other faction,but actually here comes and the other big Amarr problem ... yes its that single EM dmg we make ( Em + Thermal charges are useless cause they don`t have any range at all and its p[ointless to use them ).
2.Why only Caldari and Minmatar have 4 kind dmg but the other 2 factions ( Amarr and Gallente ) have only 2 (Amarr have only 1 Actually ) ?
3.If you think to close Amarr and Gallente in the near future ( considering this disadvantages ) you really should put some Warnings when new player start to make a character, or Warning like ` Don`t make Amarr and Gallente its useless`.
PS: I have talk with many players about this Amarr and Gallente problems ( they are problems for us ) and most of them tells me same thing - Why the hell i make Amarr / Why the hell i make Gallente. I think I can simplify it pretty concisely for you: 1. The capacitor bonus is like a damage bonus because lasers do more damage than other weapons for their range. Beam lasers have the range of artillery yet they nearly rival autocannons in dps. And pulse lasers aren't so far behind blasters in dps, but they can greatly outrange autocannons. Hence, they cost a lot of capacitor and the ships that fire them have a capacitor bonus instead of a damage bonus. 2. Gallente drone ships are completely free to choose damage types, however Caldari missile ships (with the exception of the Raven) have a kinetic-specific damage bonus. Minmatar and their projectiles are almost completely free to choose damage types. It has long been felt that hybrid weapons were worthless, but due to the recent buffs, I think they are an effective weapon choice. As for why you would ever use lasers, well they do more damage than other weapons. And don't forget -- you can still equip your abaddon with autocannons or blasters if you want to. Nobody is forcing you to put lasers on it. 3. I agree that CCP should put in a short summary of the combat style of each race, noting the primary advantages and disadvantages of each. Good post. But there is a thing: Amarr beam lasers actually do more damage, in order to have that good damage you have to mount Tach IIs. But the coolest thing that you can't mount it on ANY Amarr ship except Nightmare without using Reactor Control Unit or PG Rig. Other races can mount their heaviest weapons without it. Mael can fit 1400 arties without a problem, Mega can do that too with rails, but Abaddon can't mount Tach IIs at all. Using the reactor kills one Low. Also Abaddon can't evem mount Mega Beam IIs too if you want to use at least one repper. Even Paladin can't mount Tach IIs effectively. That's another problem I have noticed. I don't understand why CCP would design a system where the largest weapons are too big for the largest ships to fit, even if said ships aren't spending the powergrid on anything else. Only since the powergrid reduction of Crucible are the Megathron, Hyperion, and Rokh able to fit the largest railguns without a powergrid bonus. The Abaddon has as much powergrid as the Maelstrom, however artillery takes significantly less powergrid than beam lasers. I just recently fit up a maelstrom with autocannons and a fat X-Large shield booster. It has literally gobs of remaining CPU and powergrid that I don't have a clue what to do with. If there were X-Large shield extenders in the game costing 3000 powergrid and granting 7500 shield strength, I would most certainly put one on the maelstrom, and would be none the worse for wear because of it.
So I think the Abaddon should have its powergrid increased 5% and the Maelstrom should have its powergrid decreased by 5% at least. Not too much though, artillery takes a LOT of powergrid. And I have already petitioned for increasing the powergrid of the Rokh and Thorax by as much as 20% but I already got my wish there =) |
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 09:22:00 -
[153] - Quote
T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr.
I don`t understand why no1 bother ( from CCP team ) to say : Hey wait a min.we made Amarr in the worst possible way,lets check what they can fit,what they can use,what they can do compare to other factions.Gallente was fixed a bit but not enough,like many ppl wrote they are stil slow and very limited range hunters.
Many peeps wrote here Minmatar is not OP ... i say they are - Stronger -Faster Hunter. Who else is in this game exept them ?
Peeps told me this game exist from 2003 well now is almost 2012 and no body cares about these problems....i think i speak from the name of many people when i say - I expect more from CCP |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 10:15:00 -
[154] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr.
I don`t understand why no1 bother ( from CCP team ) to say : Hey wait a min.we made Amarr in the worst possible way,lets check what they can fit,what they can use,what they can do compare to other factions.Gallente was fixed a bit but not enough,like many ppl wrote they are stil slow and very limited range hunters.
Many peeps wrote here Minmatar is not OP ... i say they are - Stronger -Faster Hunter. Who else is in this game exept them ?
Peeps told me this game exist from 2003 well now is almost 2012 and no body cares about these problems....i think i speak from the name of many people when i say - I expect more from CCP
You get around 1000 dps out of your Long Range weapons system, and you're complaining that you need some fitting slots to do it? What the hell? And if you're running missions, T2 Laser ammo isn't helpful, so use Faction Multi on it (even helps those tracking issues you have). With a fit hat costs around 500 mil, I can get an Abaddon fit with T2 Tachs with cap to spare dealing 800dps with 2 tracking computers on normal multifreq. But for tachs you really should use Faction guns and faction ammo. They're easier on the cap boosters and the fitting. (Includes a LAR and 2 spare lows for resists)
If you want a race that needed buffing, look at Minmatar before the Projectile weapon buff, or look at Gallente before the Hybrid buff, but not Amarr. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 10:23:00 -
[155] - Quote
Fix My Lasers wrote: Cross training is fine when you know what you want. But what about newbs that have no idea about that? I already have 2 newb friends leaving this game because one didn't know you need few month to start playing this game effectively and other just quit because of he learned you have to cross train to fly Amarr ships in PvP, i.e. without lasers.
It's just sad there is no note on a race selection screen that says: Gallente - good overall, Caldari - Uber PvE, so-so to good PvP, Minmatar - Uber at everything and Amarr - sometimes good, sometimes crap, and you have to crosstrain unlike others.
You should have taught your newbie friends that there's plenty to do on day one. Maybe loaned them some isk to buy punishers and go out shooting people. The Laser punisher is a classic and does its job really well. Break their idea that they need some ship class before they can do things and they'll have more fun, and you'll have more fun with them. Maybe send them to RvB to get their feet wet in PvP.
The only Amarr ship I have ever flown without lasers was an Arty Abaddon (and a Guardian, but that doesn't count). I much prefer the Hellcat fleet Pulse Abaddon, and I think they're significantly more effective in the fights I'm involved in. So you really don't have to crosstrain if you don't want to. Just don't join an alliance that flies a doctrine that doesn't suit you (or don't join an alliance at all). |
Ellendras Silver
Cosmodynamics
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 10:24:00 -
[156] - Quote
Sai Hai wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Sai Hai wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Sai Hai wrote:I can't break the tank with my lazers on guristas and angels ships, what should I do? Should I wait another year to train gunnery skills to lvl 5? Train another race?
I don't have money to change BSs each time I want to do missions, just like I don't have skills to put some uber gank so every rat will pop up in a sight. Why my friend that started 2 month after me can kill every rat with hes Mega/Domi and I can't with my Apoc? Yes, I don't have enough skills to fly Abaddon.
Why no one told me at the beginning amarr can't change damage type at all and others can or don't need it? And the last thing, why every race can do missions with low SP and Amarr can't? If you don't have the skills to reliably finish L4 missions, you're pretty certainly better off running L3 missions instead. Part way through the tutorial missions, ammunition was described to you. At that point, you know enough to look at the market and show info on all of the laser ammunition. So someone did tell you at the beginning. You just didn't care enough to pay attention. Amarr do missions at low SP pretty well. Just not l4 missions. Minmatar do missions at low SP pretty well. Just not L4 missions. Gallente do missions at low SP pretty well. Just not L4 missions (the L4 Myrm is a high skill build, and a low skill Domi is better suited in L3s). Caldari do missions at all SP well. Just not PvP. My friend does missins MUCH better then me. He's able to do any of them within a short period of time. He is 2 mil SP lower then me. He has much cheaper mods then mine and still he's better. I'm a total newb at pvp and pve. I just had no idea that lasers do one type of a damage. Right now I can't break tank on missions like Duo of death and angel extravaganza's last boss. There was another 2 missions which i couldn't do, just can't remember the names. There is something wrong about lazers and balancing at all. Google "Eve Mission damage types" look for rats that are weak against your lasers. Figure out which agents give you those missions (It shouldn't be hard, the missions vary primarily by faction, and CCP isn't entirely stupid). Run missions designed with your ship in mind and see what happens. (FYI, Angel rats have a HUGE EM/Therm resist) As for the damage type surprise; I assume you are literate (You can type in real words, so at least more literate than most here). During the tutorials, you were introduced to ammunition (Assuming you're not using civilian guns on your Battleship). At that time it was Your responsibility to learn the mechanics of the game you are playing, and had you done that, you would have realized you needed to be OK shooting only EM/Therm from lasers. You didn't do that. And now you're fighting Angels with Lasers. Square Peg !> Round Hole. Go find the Square Hole. My Amarr agent gives me those missions in amarr space. From time to time I get guristas and angels, like extravaganza. When I get them I have nothing else to do but to cancel them. Day ago i cancelled extravaganza, after that agent offered me to do duo of death with guristas. After that i had to wait 4 hrs to cancel it again :( If if that stupid 4hrs waiting didn;t make me mad I wound't have posted here.
you are complaining about your lasers but are not listening to reason. i dont know how much SPs you have but a friend of mine flies amarr exclusivly he is crosstrained as he is gallente from origin and he has only 19m SPs and he runs L4s with great ease also angel extravaganza and yes he uses lasers only.
make an eveboard page and let us see your sheet till then i dsay amarr is fine have a nice day |
Ellendras Silver
Cosmodynamics
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 10:27:00 -
[157] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr.
you dont... you need to train weapon upgrades and advanced weapon upgrades... without that we all have fitting problems not just amarr
Quote: I don`t understand why no1 bother ( from CCP team ) to say : Hey wait a min.we made Amarr in the worst possible way,lets check what they can fit,what they can use,what they can do compare to other factions.Gallente was fixed a bit but not enough,like many ppl wrote they are stil slow and very limited range hunters.
because you THINK they are, does not make it true. amarr is realy a strong race you obviously dont know how to fly them
Quote: Many peeps wrote here Minmatar is not OP ... i say they are - Stronger -Faster Hunter. Who else is in this game exept them ?
Peeps told me this game exist from 2003 well now is almost 2012 and no body cares about these problems....i think i speak from the name of many people when i say - I expect more from CCP
they are faster yes, but they need to be they cant handle the damage amarr can handle! every race has + points and - points learn to use the + points to max and you will be ok! |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 10:29:00 -
[158] - Quote
Ellendras Silver wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr.
I don`t understand why no1 bother ( from CCP team ) to say : Hey wait a min.we made Amarr in the worst possible way,lets check what they can fit,what they can use,what they can do compare to other factions.Gallente was fixed a bit but not enough,like many ppl wrote they are stil slow and very limited range hunters.
Many peeps wrote here Minmatar is not OP ... i say they are - Stronger -Faster Hunter. Who else is in this game exept them ?
Peeps told me this game exist from 2003 well now is almost 2012 and no body cares about these problems....i think i speak from the name of many people when i say - I expect more from CCP you dont... you need to train weapon upgrades and advanced weapon upgrades without that we all have fitting problems not just amarr
Thanks Captain, we love you! Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html |
Ellendras Silver
Cosmodynamics
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 10:33:00 -
[159] - Quote
Fix My Lasers wrote:Ellendras Silver wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr.
I don`t understand why no1 bother ( from CCP team ) to say : Hey wait a min.we made Amarr in the worst possible way,lets check what they can fit,what they can use,what they can do compare to other factions.Gallente was fixed a bit but not enough,like many ppl wrote they are stil slow and very limited range hunters.
Many peeps wrote here Minmatar is not OP ... i say they are - Stronger -Faster Hunter. Who else is in this game exept them ?
Peeps told me this game exist from 2003 well now is almost 2012 and no body cares about these problems....i think i speak from the name of many people when i say - I expect more from CCP you dont... you need to train weapon upgrades and advanced weapon upgrades without that we all have fitting problems not just amarr Thanks Captain, we love you!
yw dear kisses and huggs |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:12:00 -
[160] - Quote
1- I kinda agree with that? I think sense hybrids are a cross of energy weapons and projectiles that they should have more play with there damage types, but (just between ken and therm EX - should scale 85%therm with anti-matter to 85% ken with iron this would also fit the gal/cal dogma as well) the new faster reload time is a start at least.
2- not true T2 Amarr hulls get drone and missile bonuses that are to un-typed, all but a few Gallente drone ships get a untyped bonus, most Caldari missle ships get a ken only bonus, Minnie's can swich types freely with missiles but there guns buck-shot damage types and still deal explosive/kinetic damage and damage type is conected to range.
3- like what? warning Galente are the most flexible race with ok cap and slot lay outs? Warning lazors deliver the most consistent non-missile damage at all ranges in game? Warning Amarr ships have huge EHP and they got it buy giving up some DPS?
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IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:13:00 -
[161] - Quote
Link me here pucture of Amarr Bs with T2Beams without using PG rigs etc. even with lvl5 WU and AWU you wil fail.I hope when you write something you people know its actually true ...not trolling. |
Deviana Sevidon
Jades Falcon Guards
120
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:14:00 -
[162] - Quote
Amarr have some of the best ships out there and the OP considers them useless. Newbs these days.. |
Generals4
Caldari State
546
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:18:00 -
[163] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:Hello,i wanted to ask you a few questions for a long time and now the time is good as any i quess.
1.Why all Amarr ships have 1 bonus less (capacitor use bonus is pure bonus eater ) in the place of this capacitor use bonus every other factions have on their ships Tracking speed,Firing range,Rate of fire or Dmg bonus.I will accept this capacitor use ship bonus if only our weapons were better than other faction,but actually here comes and the other big Amarr problem ... yes its that single EM dmg we make ( Em + Thermal charges are useless cause they don`t have any range at all and its p[ointless to use them ).
2.Why only Caldari and Minmatar have 4 kind dmg but the other 2 factions ( Amarr and Gallente ) have only 2 (Amarr have only 1 Actually ) ?
3.If you think to close Amarr and Gallente in the near future ( considering this disadvantages ) you really should put some Warnings when new player start to make a character, or Warning like ` Don`t make Amarr and Gallente its useless`.
PS: I have talk with many players about this Amarr and Gallente problems ( they are problems for us ) and most of them tells me same thing - Why the hell i make Amarr / Why the hell i make Gallente.
1) A cap bonus can be quite handy actually. And you do EM+Thermal, always as far as i know. 2) Not all caldari ships use missiles so they have some ships which are made to be used with hybrid weapons which only do Kinetic + thermal. And why don't my missile launchers insta reload? Amarr has its own advantages. 3) Amarr and Gallente are far from "useless". Winmatar is just the PVP king and Caldari PVE king, Amarr and Gallente are something in between , doesn't make them bad. They just don't excell at one particular aspect. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:20:00 -
[164] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:Link me here pucture of Amarr Bs with T2Beams without using PG rigs etc. even with lvl5 WU and AWU you wil fail.I hope when you write something you people know its actually true ...not trolling.
I didn't say it didn't use fitting mods. But it's got enough tank, enough cap, and 800 freaking DPS with good tracking. In fitting ships, the results matter, not the methods used to obtain them. And if I wanted to throw the bil or so I consider easy to justify at it, I can get even better results. To compare to my last missioning BS, I tanked less and did almost 100 less dps, and for the most part fought within the ranges this 2min Abaddon fit fights.
Just because you have some fitting mod phobia doesn't mean Tach's are useless. It just means you're unwilling to use them.
And using Tachs properly means using Faction guns, not T2. |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:27:00 -
[165] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:Hello,i wanted to ask you a few questions for a long time and now the time is good as any i quess.
1.Why all Amarr ships have 1 bonus less (capacitor use bonus is pure bonus eater ) in the place of this capacitor use bonus every other factions have on their ships Tracking speed,Firing range,Rate of fire or Dmg bonus.I will accept this capacitor use ship bonus if only our weapons were better than other faction,but actually here comes and the other big Amarr problem ... yes its that single EM dmg we make ( Em + Thermal charges are useless cause they don`t have any range at all and its p[ointless to use them ).
2.Why only Caldari and Minmatar have 4 kind dmg but the other 2 factions ( Amarr and Gallente ) have only 2 (Amarr have only 1 Actually ) ?
3.If you think to close Amarr and Gallente in the near future ( considering this disadvantages ) you really should put some Warnings when new player start to make a character, or Warning like ` Don`t make Amarr and Gallente its useless`.
PS: I have talk with many players about this Amarr and Gallente problems ( they are problems for us ) and most of them tells me same thing - Why the hell i make Amarr / Why the hell i make Gallente. 1) A cap bonus can be quite handy actually. And you do EM+Thermal, always as far as i know. 2) Not all caldari ships use missiles so they have some ships which are made to be used with hybrid weapons which only do Kinetic + thermal. And let's not forget many caldari missile boats get a kin damage bonus meaning that their bonus is only useful with one type of missiles making the use of other damage types in most situations sub optimal. And why don't my missile launchers insta reload? Amarr has its own advantages. 3) Amarr and Gallente are far from "useless". Winmatar is just the PVP king and Caldari PVE king, Amarr and Gallente are something in between , doesn't make them bad. They just don't excell at one particular aspect.
Actually Minmatar is better at PVE then Caldari. You can shoot all those small targets before they get to you plus ACs DPS is higher. My Varguar does ~1000 DPS with Implants and other stuff, with 70km falloff. Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:46:00 -
[166] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr. Nobody is forcing you to equip tachyon beams. You could try using Mega beam or Mega pulse lasers. That should leave you with more powergrid, and won't affect your dps much. Tachyon Beam lasers have only 8% more dps than Mega Beam lasers, and Mega Pulse lasers (the lowest powergrid of the 3) have 6% more dps than Tachyon Beam lasers.
And you really should count your chickens here. I'll give you a dps and range comparison, with Tachyon Beam lasers as the 100%.
Mega Pulse Laser: 106% damage and 44% range
Cruise Missile: 79% damage and 127% range Torpedo: 145% damage and 15% range
425mm Railgun: 88% damage and 142% range Neutron Blaster Cannon: 130% damage and 23% range
1400mm Howitzer Artillery: 74% damage and 112% range 800mm Repeating Artillery: 95% damage and 31% range
Note how every weapon with more dps than the tachyon has FAR less range, while the weapons with more range have a LOT lower dps. In fact, autocannons have way less range than tachyons and they STILL have lower dps. This is to balance out them not only being able to fire any damage type but also having exemplary tracking. As a general rule, range and dps multiplied give an approximate representation as to how much powergrid a weapon costs to mount. So with the exception of the maelstrom, amarr ships tend to have significantly more powergrid than minmatar ships. |
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:47:00 -
[167] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:Link me here pucture of Amarr Bs with T2Beams without using PG rigs etc. even with lvl5 WU and AWU you wil fail.I hope when you write something you people know its actually true ...not trolling. I didn't say it didn't use fitting mods. But it's got enough tank, enough cap, and 800 freaking DPS with good tracking. In fitting ships, the results matter, not the methods used to obtain them. And if I wanted to throw the bil or so I consider easy to justify at it, I can get even better results. To compare to my last missioning BS, I tanked less and did almost 100 less dps, and for the most part fought within the ranges this 2min Abaddon fit fights. Just because you have some fitting mod phobia doesn't mean Tach's are useless. It just means you're unwilling to use them. And using Tachs properly means using Faction guns, not T2.
There is only a few mission just a few in which you will find Tachy`s usefull ...i say it many times before,they have to much Fail Off range which mean you can`t hit your target under that Fail Off range ....if anything comes near you under 30 klm (god forbid under 20klm) check your Log what dmg you will make - 0dmg .....0 dmg .....0 dmg ....0 dmg etc :):):) i get with t2 Mega Pulse 73klm + and still hit cruisers Bc Bs in 0 klm range for exellent dmg. Tachy`s are snipers nothing else.I don`t know how you stay alive in missions so long with this Tachy`s ...maybe fleet or idk.Anyway the point was not sniper diferents but some other issues obviously no1 want to talk about.This topic go way to far from the real point i`m trying to make. |
Fix My Lasers
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 11:58:00 -
[168] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr. Nobody is forcing you to equip tachyon beams. You could try using Mega beam or Mega pulse lasers. That should leave you with more powergrid, and won't affect your dps much. Tachyon Beam lasers have only 8% more dps than Mega Beam lasers, and Mega Pulse lasers (the lowest powergrid of the 3) have 6% more dps than Tachyon Beam lasers. And you really should count your chickens here. I'll give you a dps and range comparison, with Tachyon Beam lasers as the 100%. Mega Pulse Laser: 106% damage and 44% range Cruise Missile: 79% damage and 127% range Torpedo: 145% damage and 15% range 425mm Railgun: 88% damage and 142% range Neutron Blaster Cannon: 130% damage and 23% range 1400mm Howitzer Artillery: 74% damage and 112% range 800mm Repeating Artillery: 95% damage and 31% range Note how every weapon with more dps than the tachyon has FAR less range, while the weapons with more range have a LOT lower dps. In fact, autocannons have way less range than tachyons and they STILL have lower dps. This is to balance out them not only being able to fire any damage type but also having exemplary tracking. As a general rule, range and dps multiplied give an approximate representation as to how much powergrid a weapon costs to mount. So with the exception of the maelstrom, amarr ships tend to have significantly more powergrid than minmatar ships.
About PG - Amarr ships have higher PG because Lasers req. ~15% more PG the Arties to fit
Also. Do not forget Amarr ships have less turret hardpoints usually or just can't fit a powerful version of it. Compare Harbinger to Hurricane. BSs is a little different story tho, they just can't fit powerful version. Moreover other ships usually have some choice, like 6 turrets and 2-3 launchers while Amarr ships sometimes have just lasters, again compare Harb and Cane. Bring back Blaze and Lux crystals! http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12812-Blaze-L-details.html http://eve.battleclinic.com/item/i12832-Lux-L-details.html |
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:00:00 -
[169] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:T2 Beams is almost impossible to fit in any Amarr ship because we have to waste a slot in Rigs of low slot to increase PG - that mean we have to lower ones again our capacitor or lower our dps/tank .... thats not option for mission runner or any1 who play solo in Eve with Amarr. Nobody is forcing you to equip tachyon beams. You could try using Mega beam or Mega pulse lasers. That should leave you with more powergrid, and won't affect your dps much. Tachyon Beam lasers have only 8% more dps than Mega Beam lasers, and Mega Pulse lasers (the lowest powergrid of the 3) have 6% more dps than Tachyon Beam lasers. And you really should count your chickens here. I'll give you a dps and range comparison, with Tachyon Beam lasers as the 100%. Mega Pulse Laser: 106% damage and 44% range Cruise Missile: 79% damage and 127% range Torpedo: 145% damage and 15% range 425mm Railgun: 88% damage and 142% range Neutron Blaster Cannon: 130% damage and 23% range 1400mm Howitzer Artillery: 74% damage and 112% range 800mm Repeating Artillery: 95% damage and 31% range Note how every weapon with more dps than the tachyon has FAR less range, while the weapons with more range have a LOT lower dps. In fact, autocannons have way less range than tachyons and they STILL have lower dps. This is to balance out them not only being able to fire any damage type but also having exemplary tracking. As a general rule, range and dps multiplied give an approximate representation as to how much powergrid a weapon costs to mount. So with the exception of the maelstrom, amarr ships tend to have significantly more powergrid than minmatar ships.
I see you have way more knowledge from me for the other factions but in Amarr you are wrong about the Tracking speed and that we make good dmg.DPS is only good when u`re target don`t have extreme Em resist.The real dmg Amarr make is pretty poor (exept Blood Raiders.Sansha,and some Drones. Even with 2000 Amarian DPS you will make FAR more dmg on the Guristas,Angels Cartel,etc with 1000 Caldari/Minmatar DPS because you hit the npc/factions where it HURTS.How many times i have to say this ...god. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:10:00 -
[170] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:Link me here pucture of Amarr Bs with T2Beams without using PG rigs etc. even with lvl5 WU and AWU you wil fail.I hope when you write something you people know its actually true ...not trolling. I didn't say it didn't use fitting mods. But it's got enough tank, enough cap, and 800 freaking DPS with good tracking. In fitting ships, the results matter, not the methods used to obtain them. And if I wanted to throw the bil or so I consider easy to justify at it, I can get even better results. To compare to my last missioning BS, I tanked less and did almost 100 less dps, and for the most part fought within the ranges this 2min Abaddon fit fights. Just because you have some fitting mod phobia doesn't mean Tach's are useless. It just means you're unwilling to use them. And using Tachs properly means using Faction guns, not T2.
There is only a few mission just a few in which you will find Tachy`s usefull ...i say it many times before,they have to much Fail Off range which mean you can`t hit your target under that Fail Off range ....if anything comes near you under 30 klm (god forbid under 20klm) check your Log what dmg you will make - 0dmg .....0 dmg .....0 dmg ....0 dmg etc :):):) i get with t2 Mega Pulse 73klm + and still hit cruisers Bc Bs in 0 klm range for exellent dmg. Tachy`s are snipers nothing else.I don`t know how you stay alive in missions so long with this Tachy`s ...maybe fleet or idk.Anyway the point was not sniper diferents but some other issues obviously no1 want to talk about.This topic go way to far from the real point i`m trying to make.
I would use 2-3 Tracking Computers with Tracking scripts, and let drones take care of those frigates that don't Pop on the way in. I have never seen a normal Rat bigger than a Frig orbit fast enough to get under a .03 rad/s tracking gun. Doesn't matter the range if your tracking is better than their transversal you hit. If making that happen is an issue, press the Keep at Range button and chase/get chased by them to minimize transversal (or fly manually for even better results). You're in a gunboat, learn to fly it.
Your insistance on natural cap stability is killing your ability to function effectively in the Cap Booster capital of EVE.
I'll say it again: Optimal and Falloff affect damage and Maximum ONLY. Hit probability is a function of tracking and transversal speed. That's why Nightmares still fit Tachyons for Vanguard sites in incursions where they will be shooting nothing but Frigates that orbit around 20km.
And I don't run missions, I live in Angel space so I use a Machariel because that's the Round Peg for the Angel's explosively round hole. When I lived in Guristas/Serpentis space I used a Kinetic Missile boat (Ham Tengu was sexXxy). If I ever lived in Sansha or BRaider space, I'd use a Laserboat. |
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:12:00 -
[171] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote: I see you have way more knowledge from me for the other factions but in Amarr you are wrong about the Tracking speed and that we make good dmg.DPS is only good when u`re target don`t have extreme Em resist.The real dmg Amarr make is pretty poor (exept Blood Raiders.Sansha,and some Drones. Even with 2000 Amarian DPS you will make FAR more dmg on the Guristas,Angels Cartel,etc with 1000 Caldari/Minmatar DPS because you hit the npc/factions where it HURTS.How many times i have to say this ...god.
How many times do we have to tell you to "STOP SHOOTING THE WRONG RATS" ...god. |
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:14:00 -
[172] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote: I see you have way more knowledge from me for the other factions but in Amarr you are wrong about the Tracking speed and that we make good dmg.DPS is only good when u`re target don`t have extreme Em resist.The real dmg Amarr make is pretty poor (exept Blood Raiders.Sansha,and some Drones. Even with 2000 Amarian DPS you will make FAR more dmg on the Guristas,Angels Cartel,etc with 1000 Caldari/Minmatar DPS because you hit the npc/factions where it HURTS.How many times i have to say this ...god.
How many times do we have to tell you to "STOP SHOOTING THE WRONG RATS" ...god.
As long as CCP make them pop up from all my Amarr agents :)
I can`t Decline forever lol |
Generals4
Caldari State
549
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:15:00 -
[173] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:[quote=Reaver Glitterstim]
I see you have way more knowledge from me for the other factions but in Amarr you are wrong about the Tracking speed and that we make good dmg.DPS is only good when u`re target don`t have extreme Em resist.The real dmg Amarr make is pretty poor (exept Blood Raiders.Sansha,and some Drones. Even with 2000 Amarian DPS you will make FAR more dmg on the Guristas,Angels Cartel,etc with 1000 Caldari/Minmatar DPS because you hit the npc/factions where it HURTS.How many times i have to say this ...god.
yes and in most cases you'll do much more damage on blood raiders, drones and sansha as amarr instead of Caldari, what's the point here?
Oh sure i could use EM missiles on a drake but i'd lose the +25% damage bonus for kinetic missiles. And if i'd be flying a rail/blaster ship i'd be even more screwed.
Quote: As long as CCP make them pop up from all my Amarr agents :)
I can`t Decline forever lol
And don't you think i had to decline many missions back in my missioning days as caldari? -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:16:00 -
[174] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote: I see you have way more knowledge from me for the other factions but in Amarr you are wrong about the Tracking speed and that we make good dmg.DPS is only good when u`re target don`t have extreme Em resist.The real dmg Amarr make is pretty poor (exept Blood Raiders.Sansha,and some Drones. Even with 2000 Amarian DPS you will make FAR more dmg on the Guristas,Angels Cartel,etc with 1000 Caldari/Minmatar DPS because you hit the npc/factions where it HURTS.How many times i have to say this ...god.
How many times do we have to tell you to "STOP SHOOTING THE WRONG RATS" ...god.
As long as CCP make them pop up from all my Amarr agents :) I can`t Decline forever lol
Get 2-3 agents in the same system, and sure you can. |
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:31:00 -
[175] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote: I see you have way more knowledge from me for the other factions but in Amarr you are wrong about the Tracking speed and that we make good dmg.DPS is only good when u`re target don`t have extreme Em resist.The real dmg Amarr make is pretty poor (exept Blood Raiders.Sansha,and some Drones. Even with 2000 Amarian DPS you will make FAR more dmg on the Guristas,Angels Cartel,etc with 1000 Caldari/Minmatar DPS because you hit the npc/factions where it HURTS.How many times i have to say this ...god.
How many times do we have to tell you to "STOP SHOOTING THE WRONG RATS" ...god.
As long as CCP make them pop up from all my Amarr agents :) I can`t Decline forever lol Get 2-3 agents in the same system, and sure you can.
Carthum Conglomerate Amarr make top ISK from it - 2 Agents level 4 - 11 Jumps away
Amarr navy -3 Agents level 4 - two of them 1 jump away the 3`d is 17 Jumps away ( those two that are in 1 jump away - 1 of them give you to much missions for low sec - useless )
Which one you will chose ? the other option is even poor of those :)
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RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:53:00 -
[176] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote: Carthum Conglomerate Amarr make top ISK from it - 2 Agents level 4 - 11 Jumps away
Amarr navy -3 Agents level 4 - two of them 1 jump away the 3`d is 17 Jumps away ( those two that are in 1 jump away - 1 of them give you to much missions for low sec - useless )
Which one you will chose ? the other option is even poor of those :)
Consider that they need not both be in the same Corp. In about a minute using the ingame finder I found 4 systems with more than 1 Amarr L4 Security agent.
Spend a day grinding standings again. Or accept that You might be unwilling to adapt to your chosen Eve profession. |
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 12:59:00 -
[177] - Quote
I don`t know a single player who can make ISk flying around the Universe changing corporations and transporting all of his ships.I`ve notice 95% of the ppl in eve are gainst Amarr,even after i show you how hard it is to be Amarr pilot.
PS: The days ahead for Amarr looks dark indeed. |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 13:04:00 -
[178] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:I don`t know a single player who can make ISk flying around the Universe changing corporations and transporting all of his ships.I`ve notice 95% of the ppl in eve are gainst Amarr,even after i show you how hard it is to be Amarr pilot.
PS: The days ahead for Amarr looks dark indeed.
You do it once then you don't do it again. Long term you make more isk/hr, and that offsets that downtime. Or you keep plugging away against a brick wall.
You have shown me nothing other than it's hard make Isk as a Lazy pilot, afraid of effort. |
IIIIIAMGIIIII
Flying Bags Inc. Bulgarian Space Federation
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 13:12:00 -
[179] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:I don`t know a single player who can make ISk flying around the Universe changing corporations and transporting all of his ships.I`ve notice 95% of the ppl in eve are gainst Amarr,even after i show you how hard it is to be Amarr pilot.
PS: The days ahead for Amarr looks dark indeed. You do it once then you don't do it again. Long term you make more isk/hr, and that offsets that downtime. Or you keep plugging away against a brick wall. You have shown me nothing other than it's hard make Isk as a Lazy pilot, afraid of effort.
If being lazy mean i make 7 bil under 20 days with l4 missions in high sec then yes,i am lazy ignorant,complaining newbie who don`t know nothing about Eve and just trolling the forum with my stupidity.
I wrote about what i`ve notice and i think it should be changed in Amarr mathers.This post is the last i make and i hope the things will change some day for better.
Thank you all :) |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
148
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 13:19:00 -
[180] - Quote
IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:RubyPorto wrote:IIIIIAMGIIIII wrote:I don`t know a single player who can make ISk flying around the Universe changing corporations and transporting all of his ships.I`ve notice 95% of the ppl in eve are gainst Amarr,even after i show you how hard it is to be Amarr pilot.
PS: The days ahead for Amarr looks dark indeed. You do it once then you don't do it again. Long term you make more isk/hr, and that offsets that downtime. Or you keep plugging away against a brick wall. You have shown me nothing other than it's hard make Isk as a Lazy pilot, afraid of effort.
If being lazy mean i make 7 bil under 20 days with l4 missions in high sec then yes,i am lazy ignorant,complaining newbie who don`t know nothing about Eve and just trolling the forum with my stupidity. I wrote about what i`ve notice and i think it should be changed in Amarr mathers.This post is the last i make and i hope the things will change some day for better. Thank you all :)
Best I ever did running missions was about 50mil an hour, let's call it 70 for the sake of math. 100 hours of missioning in 20 days and you can't spare 3 or 4 to boost your profits? Cool story. Tell me again why 7-8 bil a month needs buffing so badly and how you can't afford Cap Boosters in order to fit your ship properly? |
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