Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2015.08.10 22:41:07 -
[1] - Quote
Hello. Been running L4s in high sec for about 2 years (no carebear hate please). All perfect battleship skills except Caldari, and have been completing missions rather quickly in a Vindi, Navy Dominix, Navy Apocalypse, and Nightmare. Almost perfect drone / gunnery skills as well.
Several corp mates suggested I move up to a Kronos, Machariel, or Paladin. But although I still haven't figured out how to use EFT, just basic math seems to suggest a Kronos would have inferior damage compared to a Vindi. A vindi gets a 37.5% damage bonus to turrets on top of the 8 it already has (for a total of 11 turrets worth of damage) while a Kronos gets 4 + 100% (for a total of 8 turrets) worth. Lack of range or tank is rarely of any a problem when running L4's. Not to mention I would think when using a MJD, drones become impractical as you are not going to be sending them 100km towards the enemy.
Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station).
I'm sure I can just skill up Marauders and try, but the 5x multiplier scares me
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8501
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 00:19:01 -
[2] - Quote
First... wrong forum section.
Second... (reserved for when I get home and on an actual computer)
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
|
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
6230
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 00:24:15 -
[3] - Quote
Thread has been moved to Missions & Complexes.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
|
Market McSelling Alt
Bernie Madoff Investment Services LLC
428
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 00:30:49 -
[4] - Quote
Kronos,
Here is why
You lose the DPS the vindi had, but you get better range, better tank, immune to ewar and you can drop the noctis because you can salvage and loot as you go.
Also
Vindi's are for incursion runners... incursion runners are evil... you don't want to be evil do you?!
Best description of Eve Online and why the community is the way it is
|
Buoytender Bob
Ronin Exploration Mission and Mining
61
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 02:14:28 -
[5] - Quote
Besides, MTUs attract the wrong groups of players looking for a shiny kill mail and MTUs are quite easy to scan down.
Marauder can move and loot ,losing little time and, if the feces hits the fan, you can either turtle up with the bastion or warp away without leaving a MTU to get destroyed by the ninjas.
To buck the popular trend, I began to Rage Start instead of Rage Quit.
...and every time I get another piece of Carbon, I know exactly what CCP is getting this Christmas.
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1529
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 07:12:15 -
[6] - Quote
The Kronos is only better if you are facing heavy electronic warfare or need an absurd tank.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
|
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1290
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:43:02 -
[7] - Quote
since level 4 loot and salvage became pathetic it's best to just do them as fast as you can to get lp.
Vindi fit's this purpose a bit better, although you will want to run with rails for that. |
C11H17NO3
MylittlePonyOnline
7
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 12:59:08 -
[8] - Quote
Golem or rattlesnake over both.
But if you insist on a railgun boat, kronos, just cram with tracking computers and mag stabs.. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
682
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 13:34:16 -
[9] - Quote
Blaster Kronos. Anyone using rails on a Kronos is just plain stupid. With null ammo I can hit out to ~70km. Any thing further and it's time to use the MJD and switch to Void.
If you like counting missiles or managing drones, by all means, go with a Golem or Rattlesnake; but turret ships are where the real damage is at. |
Shionoya Risa
The Xenodus Initiative.
60
|
Posted - 2015.08.11 14:23:19 -
[10] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote: but turret ships are where the real damage is at.
Can confirm. Once you switch to a proper ship you'll never look back. |
|
Goochan derp
Elewaitor
17
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 02:19:34 -
[11] - Quote
pve boils down to dps, if you can do more dps in a vindi and survive then you answered your own question. this is of coarse taking everything into account, a paladin can out dps a vindi if shooting sansha rats. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1405
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 05:09:45 -
[12] - Quote
Goochan derp wrote:pve boils down to dps, if you can do more dps in a vindi and survive then you answered your own question. this is of coarse taking everything into account, a paladin can out dps a vindi if shooting sansha rats.
I imagine that is more a case of applied dps than raw dps. Paladins have broken range, I dunno what else to say about it.
@ChainsawPlankto
|
Goochan derp
Elewaitor
17
|
Posted - 2015.08.13 22:12:53 -
[13] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:Goochan derp wrote:pve boils down to dps, if you can do more dps in a vindi and survive then you answered your own question. this is of coarse taking everything into account, a paladin can out dps a vindi if shooting sansha rats. I imagine that is more a case of applied dps than raw dps. Paladins have broken range, I dunno what else to say about it.
its about the rats resistance profile vs your damage profile. |
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
75
|
Posted - 2015.08.14 11:36:05 -
[14] - Quote
Yong Shin wrote:Hello. Been running L4s in high sec for about 2 years (no carebear hate please). All perfect battleship skills except Caldari, and have been completing missions rather quickly in a Vindi, Navy Dominix, Navy Apocalypse, and Nightmare. Almost perfect drone / gunnery skills as well. Several corp mates suggested I move up to a Kronos, Machariel, or Paladin. But although I still haven't figured out how to use EFT, just basic math seems to suggest a Kronos would have inferior damage compared to a Vindi. A vindi gets a 37.5% damage bonus to turrets on top of the 8 it already has (for a total of 11 turrets worth of damage) while a Kronos gets 4 + 100% (for a total of 8 turrets) worth. Lack of range or tank is rarely of any a problem when running L4's. Not to mention I would think when using a MJD, drones become impractical as you are not going to be sending them 100km towards the enemy. Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station). I'm sure I can just skill up Marauders and try, but the 5x multiplier scares me
2 YEARS!!! I've been grinding them for a year now, and on the verge of going mental from it. How do you do it?
Anyho, it's mostly dependent of your skills, but from efficiency standpoint, I'd say Golem or Rattlesnake if you got missiles trained.
If turret based, I'd say Vargur/Machariel for capless weapon system and selectable damage type.
If you're just looking for Hybrid only then either a Rail Vindi or Blaster Kronos would do. Of the two I'd choose blaster Kronos for it's AFKing ability. |
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 16:37:14 -
[15] - Quote
Daniela Doran wrote:Yong Shin wrote:Hello. Been running L4s in high sec for about 2 years (no carebear hate please). All perfect battleship skills except Caldari, and have been completing missions rather quickly in a Vindi, Navy Dominix, Navy Apocalypse, and Nightmare. Almost perfect drone / gunnery skills as well. Several corp mates suggested I move up to a Kronos, Machariel, or Paladin. But although I still haven't figured out how to use EFT, just basic math seems to suggest a Kronos would have inferior damage compared to a Vindi. A vindi gets a 37.5% damage bonus to turrets on top of the 8 it already has (for a total of 11 turrets worth of damage) while a Kronos gets 4 + 100% (for a total of 8 turrets) worth. Lack of range or tank is rarely of any a problem when running L4's. Not to mention I would think when using a MJD, drones become impractical as you are not going to be sending them 100km towards the enemy. Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station). I'm sure I can just skill up Marauders and try, but the 5x multiplier scares me 2 YEARS!!! I've been grinding them for a year now, and on the verge of going mental from it. How do you do it? Anyho, it's mostly dependent of your skills, but from efficiency standpoint, I'd say Golem or Rattlesnake if you got missiles trained. If turret based, I'd say Vargur/Machariel for capless weapon system and selectable damage type. If you're just looking for Hybrid only then either a Rail Vindi or Blaster Kronos would do. Of the two I'd choose blaster Kronos for it's AFKing ability.
Haha. Patience and more patience my friend. I'll keep that in mind! I just thought the Machariel was ugly, and I don't like missiles. |
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 16:40:56 -
[16] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:since level 4 loot and salvage became pathetic it's best to just do them as fast as you can to get lp.
Vindi fit's this purpose a bit better, although you will want to run with rails for that.
Haha thanks for the response. I actually remember you from when I first started the game two years ago. You and some guy were arguing on the forums about best ship to run L4's. He was on and on about how the Machariel was king and everything else was pitiful in comparison, while you advocated the Domi and CNR. Took your arguments to heart, and I skilled up core skills + Gallente BS to V & Drones to V first, and Domi was the first BS in my career |
Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
81
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 18:44:01 -
[17] - Quote
Sadly i don't have any experience with the Vindicator, but Kronos looks to me like it's just a way more flexible choice all around, if you stick with missions in Gallente space.
You can put rails on the same general base fitting you would use with blasters and also enjoy all the advantages of the marauder hulls. Much better range with rails might be of importance, too. Other than that Kronos is great to use with MJD, mobile depot and tractor beams. Even if salvage and loot got nerfed, they are still an additional income and for me just a byproduct of the missioning, as dropping MTU and using 2 salvagers or just drones isn't exactly a demanding activity while i'm blapping things around me. Also, check the prices of Null and Void against faction antimatter. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8268
|
Posted - 2015.08.17 19:25:32 -
[18] - Quote
Sell the others, skill up in projectiles, get an AC Mach with two Geckos
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
|
Arthur Aihaken
Perkone Caldari State
4582
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 02:58:09 -
[19] - Quote
Yong Shin wrote:Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station). Marauders let you "shoot and loot". Extra tractor beams can really reduce mission times as they allow you to snag mission objectives independently of a MTU or in situations where you're moving and don't want to go back to retrieve a MTU. In conjunction with a MTU, it allows you to simultaneously bring in up to 4 wrecks. Do keep in-mind that a popular pastime is to scan down and shoot absent MTUs...
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
|
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
692
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 14:48:49 -
[20] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Yong Shin wrote:Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station). Marauders let you "shoot and loot". Extra tractor beams can really reduce mission times as they allow you to snag mission objectives independently of a MTU or in situations where you're moving and don't want to go back to retrieve a MTU. In conjunction with a MTU, it allows you to simultaneously bring in up to 4 wrecks. Do keep in-mind that a popular pastime is to scan down and shoot absent MTUs...
Use your tractor beams to reel in the close ones, so the MTU is going for the ones out of your range.
Also, in regards to fittings, remember we now have the mobile depot. You can actually take one along with extra fittings, and refit your ship while in the mission, as needed. For instance, pesky ninja looter in your missions? Drop a mobile depot and refit to PVP with Heavy Neuts and a point. Can't handle the DPS? Refit for max tank. NPCs outside of your blaster range? Refit to rails. |
|
Jori McKie
Viziam Amarr Empire
270
|
Posted - 2015.08.18 15:17:28 -
[21] - Quote
Simple put, if you are going to use a web + MWD on a Blaster Vindicator it is better than any Kronos. Emphasis is on the 90% web and close range, you guys have no idea what a 90% web does to your tracking and how good your hits become. Read this http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage very very carefully. You can gain up to 12.5 to 25% DPS with better hits and btw no freaking dumb missile boat can do that. Have fun counting your missile volleys.....
The thing about DPS in PvE is not only raw EFT DPS, it is about application. That means range, tracking and how good your hits are for turret boats and knowing that missile boat are bad. End of story.
Edit: If you care about min/max your ISK/h you will use a Machariel put in warp speed imps and laugh about everybody else using something different.
2nd Edit: If you don't care about blitzing missions and min/max your ISK/h use polarized weapons on any turret BS or turret Marauder. Especially on a turret Marauder polarized weapons are great because adjusting your tank is very easy.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
|
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 16:35:11 -
[22] - Quote
Shionoya Risa wrote:Estella Osoka wrote: but turret ships are where the real damage is at. Can confirm. Once you switch to a proper ship you'll never look back.
Your avatar is adorable! |
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 16:36:31 -
[23] - Quote
Jori McKie wrote:Simple put, if you are going to use a web + MWD on a Blaster Vindicator it is better than any Kronos. Emphasis is on the 90% web and close range, you guys have no idea what a 90% web does to your tracking and how good your hits become. Read this http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage very very carefully. You can gain up to 12.5 to 25% DPS with better hits and btw no freaking dumb missile boat can do that. Have fun counting your missile volleys..... The thing about DPS in PvE is not only raw EFT DPS, it is about application. That means range, tracking and how good your hits are for turret boats and knowing that missile boat are bad. End of story. Edit: If you care about min/max your ISK/h you will use a Machariel put in warp speed imps and laugh about everybody else using something different. 2nd Edit: If you don't care about blitzing missions and min/max your ISK/h use polarized weapons on any turret BS or turret Marauder. Especially on a turret Marauder polarized weapons are great because adjusting your tank is very easy.
Hmm. Always wanted to try polarized weapons. Will give it a shot. Thanks!~ |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
694
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 17:01:05 -
[24] - Quote
Yong Shin wrote:Jori McKie wrote:Simple put, if you are going to use a web + MWD on a Blaster Vindicator it is better than any Kronos. Emphasis is on the 90% web and close range, you guys have no idea what a 90% web does to your tracking and how good your hits become. Read this http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Turret_Damage very very carefully. You can gain up to 12.5 to 25% DPS with better hits and btw no freaking dumb missile boat can do that. Have fun counting your missile volleys..... The thing about DPS in PvE is not only raw EFT DPS, it is about application. That means range, tracking and how good your hits are for turret boats and knowing that missile boat are bad. End of story. Edit: If you care about min/max your ISK/h you will use a Machariel put in warp speed imps and laugh about everybody else using something different. 2nd Edit: If you don't care about blitzing missions and min/max your ISK/h use polarized weapons on any turret BS or turret Marauder. Especially on a turret Marauder polarized weapons are great because adjusting your tank is very easy. Hmm. Always wanted to try polarized weapons. Will give it a shot. Thanks!~
Be advised, polarized weapons set all your resists to 0. |
Jori McKie
Viziam Amarr Empire
270
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 21:54:38 -
[25] - Quote
Quote:Be advised, polarized weapons set all your resists to 0.
I didn't mentioned that, so a little more advise. Usually you use hardeners to up your resist. Clearly that won't work with polarized weapons you will need dual or triple rep and no resist at all. Cap management can be tricky, shield has the best options to reduce it via rigs.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
|
Helena Khan
Ministry Of Reverse Engineering Special Circumstances Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.11 11:17:17 -
[26] - Quote
I fly both hulls to max skill levels and have run more missions than probably most. In regards to damage application, rails are the better option given that NPC transversal at their optimal range is usually low. If your DPS is sufficient (and working from the smallest hull upwards), most web/scram frigates can be killed before they become unhittable, at which point your light drones can take over for any that do get through.
I do not recommend an MWD/Blaster combination on a T1 hull for two reasons: you will often need to get close enough that you'll trigger more than one group, and the sig bloom heading in means you will take a majority of the incoming DPS. Without the T2 resists, that can be rather dangerous. Not to mention the NPCs that NOS once they get closer in....
The Vindi is a very fine hull, but more suited to PvP imho. The web bonus is awesome, but is to effectiveness and not range, limiting its application.
A twin target painter (rail) Kronos will have very good application and won't chew through a metric **** ton of ammo. It doesn't need to move often given an optimal of 40km+ with skills and 900+ DPS using faction AM (under bastion) not including drones. By comparison, null more than halves the optimal and is only 100 DPS more.
Travel takes time, even with an MWD. And you want to be removing the opposition off the field while they're in your optimal and you're not in theirs. The more you can operate like that, the more you can lessen tank (or cap stability) for damage output. The more applied deeps, the more income.
This obviously isn't for all missions, but does work surprisingly well (don't forget javelin ammo for closer in situations- drops your optimal down to about 20 and ups your tracking by 25%). |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |