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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
925
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:27:49 -
[31] - Quote
We actually have interesting capital and BS content in Low now and we would like to keep it that way.
Whatever adjustments are finally made to Jump Fatigue and Jump Range can CCP please make ensure that LowSec is not thrown under the bus.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Lu Ziffer
Jelly Baby Corporation Fidelas Constans
67
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:28:27 -
[32] - Quote
Overall problem what are capitals good for by now?
Quote:Altering jump ranges Look at that after player build stargates arrive.
Quote:Altering jump fatigue curves A fixed version or is more reasonable maybe also a charge up timer for the jumpdrive There was also the idea of having a jumpdrive not requiring a cyno and maybe giving it more drawbacks in return.
Quote:Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement Not unreasoanable it is a bit like the last season of BSG where basicly they get structure damage from using there jumpdrive.
Quote:Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?) Very interesting maybe a faster warp system only used by capitals with 0.5-1ly per minute.
Quote:Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue) This is something for the Observatory Array . |
Robnik Charante
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:29:45 -
[33] - Quote
NoobMan wrote: TL:DR There needs to be an opportunity to travel in a reasonable time inside our Local spheres and return home and repeat as many times as there is content to be had.
Other thoughts: Some sort of Region based fatigue system. Inside the Region you live you are given a certain set of rules that allow you to travel quickly. Soon as you cross into another region you are hit with some type of fatigue. You go one more Region your hit again.
This seems like it could be a good idea. Perhaps fatigue could be implemented based on both character and location? Imagine a "heat map" that is initially flat. Each time you activate a jump drive in a "cold" area, you receive normal amounts of fatigue, but the location you jumped away from becomes "hot" (on a per-character, not global basis). Surrounding systems also receive a certain amount of "heat" inversely proportional to LY distance from the locus. This "heat" decays over time. Whenever jumping away from a "hot" area, you get a reduction in the amount of fatigue taken from the jump. The idea is that you would take normal amounts of fatigue when jumping to new locations, but you could rapidly jump back and forth within a small area. It would also reduce fatigue buildup on return trips when using one or more midpoints.
I think a mechanic similar to this could give defenders a much-needed tactical advantage with jump bridges and Titan bridges. |
Darius Caliente
The Pinecone Squad Clockwork Pineapple
102
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:29:53 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Altering jump ranges
Yes -- BLOPS should be 10LY -- Capitals at 7.5
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Altering jump fatigue curves
Yes -- You shouldn't be able to exceed 48 hours of fatigue, no defensive timers should be longer than that, so it still prevents moving around to protect assets but doesn't limit game play as prohibitively as current numbers.
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based
It doesn't matter, you either have multiple ships or multiple characters. Multiple ships is easier to manage and probably going to make more players happy. Since both have a work around, why not aim for highest player highiness.
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?)
It would be nice to be able to move big ships (BC and BS) around faster.
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue)
Sov needs benefits and this sounds like a reasonable one.
Next Quote Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection
-- Remove the recent WH Nerfs, Increase Jump Protection, Gate projection is currently fine.
Next Quote Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement
This could be interesting. Obviously that initial jump can't affect combat effectiveness since it would render capitals useless (triage / siege). This would be most interesting on carriers. Allowing the suitcase carrier to return for nomads. Ideally, this would be handled by introducing modes (like T3Ds).
Carrier - Travel Mode - Reduction to Triage Capabilities and Drone Bandwidth Carrier - Combat Mode - Jump Fatigue
Dread - Travel Mode - Inability to Seige Dread - Combat Mode - Jump Fatigue
This would make it realistic to buy capitals in other regions and move them home again.
Next Quote Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops (e.g. Transforming into move mode (24 hour process) reduces combat capacity to near 0)
See above -- I don't think it needs to be a 24-hour process but rather a quick change mode and an incurred timer.
Carrier in Travel Mode Jumps (5LY) -- 50% reduction to Triage and Drone Bandwidth (1 hour) Carrier immediately switches to combat mode and jumps into fight (5LY) -- Jump Fatigue (1 hour) + Cooldown (6 minutes)
At this point the carrier would be in the fight with a 50% reduction in drone bandwidth or triage capabilities and an hour of jump fatigue but it has instantly traveled 10 LY.
Next Quote Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs)
The use of drugs would be interesting, a skill like Infomorph Synchronizing could provide a small decrease in jump fatigue. A better skill would be one to reduce the jump cooldown. This would be useful for black ops pilots.
Next Quote What does local-content mean to you?
Local content should be 1-2 regions in every direction from Syndicate (for example) -- Cloud Ring, Outer Ring, Placid, Verge Vendor, Solitude. Given the area I would then also include Black Rise. Local Content means that I should be able to hit 50% of the systems in that area via BLOPS and 25% with a capital.
Next Quote Metrics Pron Black-Ops BattleshipsCapitals
Do these graphics account for the people killing off capitals because it's easier to buy one when you move then to try and move your existing capital?
----
The most needed change is not mentioned here -- buffs to black ops. Currently, they do not fit the ninja like style they should support. You need a quick in and out at a decent range. This let's you attack and evac and also let's you stay off intel channels.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3593
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:38:16 -
[35] - Quote
Long range movement: This would be for getting to high sec, or just moving caps about. The idea is it takes time, but not tedium.
Currently, we already have warp drive. Use it, just in a new way. All ships can do long range warps. You select your destination system, and off you go. Many hours later, you arrive at your destination, say next to a stargate, station or POS. There would be no need to be logged in during the move.
If you log out, then log in later, but before your scheduled arrival time, you just see your ship in warp. You can chat, or do any other activity you could normally do while in warp. If you log in after your scheduled arrival time, you see the warp effect for two minutes, then you arrive.
Speed: a warp speed of 1 AU per second translates to a bit more than 1 LY per day. Too slow. A freighter would be in extended warp for over a month to get from deep null to high sec. A speed of 1 to 2 LY per hour may be about right. Or maybe just make any and all long jumps take 20 hours.
Other considerations: Maybe not to all systems. Maybe only to places you have been, or systems that are not hostile to you. Maybe a long warp incurs some jump fatigue, so fleets cannot do "long warp, then fast jump" to attack. Maybe jump fatigue prevents long warps, so long warps are not a quick escape methods. Its supposed to be a way to move, not to attack.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
594
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:40:44 -
[36] - Quote
Jump fatigue was a good idea, in theory, but a mistake in actual practice.
Why? Due to the supercap proliferation problem.
In order to truly "balance" null sec, we need to actively encourage more supercap engagements, not discourage them. The goal should be to get supercap destruction rates to exceed the construction rate.
So, I would recommend disabling jump fatigue for now, and developing other new game mechanics which encourage more supercap use, perhaps with some major sov benefit related to actually risking getting lots of them destroyed. After the supercap count has been significantly lowered, then jump fatigue can always be reactivated. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1950
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:42:48 -
[37] - Quote
Jump ranges fine? Pff come on.
Pre-Phoebe anyone could pile on anyone quickly, every big group kept the others in check, and batphone was possible for the small one. Good? Mayne not. Better than now? LOL NOPE.
Now we've entered the snowball era of local dominance. The local dominant group can hit on anyone and everyone because they know literally no meaningful force can reach them in time.
Lets not be ridiculous here with "oh fatigue and range are fine they just need tweaking"... NO. You're missing the whole f-ing problem!
The other big elephant in the room is that you created a gameplay mechanic (fatigue) that makes your GAME less FUN.
FFS you're game designers, don't tell me there is absolutely no way to balance this game other than by nerfing through boredom and chores. 'cause in six months we're gonna have the same discussion about the warp changes, mark my words!
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
Exploration Frontier Inc [Ex-F] CEO - BRAVE - Eve-guides.fr
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Andy Koraka
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
58
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:45:20 -
[38] - Quote
The exponential scaling of fatigue needs to go. A scaling reactivation delay to prevent rapid projection is important for balance, but the factor (fatigue) that determines your reactivation timer needs to reset in no more than 24 hours.
A 24 hour capped fatigue timer could still translate into several hours between reactivation, thus preventing dog-piling and helicopter-dicking, but no one should feel obligated to ignore a fleet because taking the bridge will screw their fatigue timer for the next week.
Lets face it, stacking fatigue that high doesn't have strategic implications anyway because when PL, or NCdot, or BL move they form a convoy, take some choice regional gates, carefully manage their fatigue, and move halfway across the starmap in an hour or two with fatigue reset in time for tomorrow's move op. The only one getting screwed is the guy unavailable for a few weeks due to work/school/deployment ect who has to make the trek 5ly at a time or risk taking gates unsupported. |
Ele Rebellion
Dead Star Syndicate
51
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:54:20 -
[39] - Quote
I like the limiting of capital force projection. I do wish that my Stratios woudn't get the same jump fatigue timer as a Carrier when I'm using a Black Ops battleship to bridge it. (Personally I feel that ships bridged by BLOPS should get the BLOPS reduction.)
Though I do want to ask the question. Is the jump Fatigue effective? Based on the charts provided it appears that it has done little to effect capital use.. for many people like me. We just purchased additional capitals and staged them in NPC null/low stations... grab a fast ceptor and just burn to which ever capital is closest to the staging area. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
289
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Posted - 2015.08.12 20:56:09 -
[40] - Quote
How about null to null or high to null incurs no fatigue or significantly reduced
Null to lowsec or high to lowsec incurs fatigue as currently in game
This will allow null to run around and helicopter **** each other, and still engage lowsec, but if we go to lowsec we will incur fatigue at the maximum rate
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
16868
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:02:20 -
[41] - Quote
Go on, do it. make CCP reverse the Pheobe changes, I dare you
I double ******* dog dare you. Do it you chickens.
Because here's what will happen if you do, based on the following facts:
(i) There's one superpower in EVE: The Imperium. (I'll define superpower as "able to contest any other group while defending its territory against other other single group")
(ii) Nowhere in 0.0 will be safe from any group anywhere willing to deploy.
Result:
(1) The Imperium will own 0.0. Everyone else in sov 0.0 will have to either kiss the ring or get burned out of their space at the whim of the Imperium leadership.
(2) The Imperium will react to any attempt to coalesce a group that could remotely challenge it.
(3) That's it. Goons own null until they get bored. The end.
So go on, do it. Go ahead I don't even care any more. I worked my fat white arse off for you people to try and get a game state that would allow diversity and independence in 0.0, and people such as myself, Marlona Sky, Manfred Sideous and many others made that case to CCP. Well I haven't got the energy to do it again, nor has anyone else who was at the front of that campaign.
So fine, go right the **** ahead: I'm in the Imperium now and I will take vindictive pleasure in actively burning out every last small independent group from 0.0 and, that done, you'd better believe I will be campaigning like hell to see the same happen to empire too.
buk buk
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Lord Longus
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:04:22 -
[42] - Quote
I'd prefer a system which only accumulates fatigue once you make a regional jump (be it with your jump drive or gate after using your jumpdrive). The rate on how the fatigue/reactivation timer should grow is not something that I could define right on the spot. But the idea is that you can get into the neighbouring regions without much delay while homeregion + 1 + x will take longer up to a certain degree where just gate travel would be faster again.
If we take the example first used by CCP Greyscale then we have little bobby tables sitting in UJY-HE in Deklein and he wants to go to Atioth UJY-HE in Deklein and he wants to go to Atioth
In this case within the same region, e.g. first 6 jumps he will not accumulate a jump reactivation timer based on distance traveled but just a standard jump reactivation timer of let's say 2 minutes.
However once he jumps into Tribute (by jumpdrive or gate) he will get a (regional) jumpreactivation timer of a formula which includes the amount of lightyears traveled and the amount of used regions (2 so far).
possible formula Jumpdistance (JD) * #used regions. In this case you would get 27ly * 2 which would result in a 54min regional jump reactivation timer (travel within the new regions are still possible though)
So little bobby tables has to wait for 54 before being able to jump into the next region (vale of the silent) but in the mean time he got through the next 2 system accumulating additional 9.5 ly JD
Once he jumps into vale of the silent he's at ~36 ly JD which now gets multiplied with 3 (number of used regions) resulting in a regional jump reactivation timer of 108 minutes
Same thing is the case now if he wants to get into geminate. After another 10 ly JD he's at 48 ly JD which will generate him 192 min of regional jump reactivation timer.
so after a total of roughly 3 h travel he will reach his destination.
With the numbers I used this time we still get too much mobility but the formula could be changed so that the number of regions will get multiplied by an exponential function (e.g. fibonacci sequence) in order to put a maximum travel distance that can be covered in a certain amount of time
This is just a quick outline of what was in my mind after today's roundtable and I wanted a rough idea of it posted asap. So I know that the current outline is far from perfect. But in case the general idea of it gets good feedback I could describe in more detail on how the jumpfatigue system would need to be changed in my opinion. |
Zepheros Naeonis
TinklePee
48
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:19:53 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Some of the interesting suggestions that we'd heard and would like to see player opinions on - - Altering jump ranges
- Altering jump fatigue curves
- Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based
- Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?)
- Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue)
- Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection
- Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement
- Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops (e.g. Transforming into move mode (24 hour process) reduces combat capacity to near 0)
- Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs)
- What does local-content mean to you?
We'd also love to hear your ideas, post away space friends. Metrics Pron
1. I think Jump Range could be increased again. 2. na 3. Ship based wouldn't really make any sense. It should stay character. 4. Not quick sure what to make on this. Like a once a day use for travel to ignore jump fatigue? A Hyperdrive across the EVE verse would take forever... at least technically speaking. 5. na 6. I am surprised someone else actually thought of this. It's one thing I pointed out early on that made no sense to me. 7. I could see this being a thing. Fatigue is a real thing, so to have it affecting a capsuleers ability to fly would make sense. 8. No. 9. Implants and drugs, yes. Skill? Possibly... but, probably not. |
Alexis Nightwish
323
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:23:02 -
[44] - Quote
Another pro-PL change brought to you by Larrikin and Manny!
Just as being able to get a fleet on top of capitals (due to their high sig radii making combat probing very fast) "needed" to be nerfed, now they "need" to undo all the good Phoebe did in order to promote their capital/supercap play style.
At least it appears that they won't **** the rest of the EVE playerbase when they remove something good this time.
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
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MItchell Jensen
Department of Internal Hemorrhaging
98
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:23:23 -
[45] - Quote
The system that I think would work nice is if players do not accumulate increased amounts of jump fatigue when jumping < X LY.
So lets say that you only want to make a jump to the system beside you. You'll accumulate a couple minutes of jump fatigue. If you jump back, your jump fatigue would only increase by x + y.
So capital pilots can slowboat it to avoid soul-crushing Jump Fatigue, only making short jumps which would take longer OR Capital pilots can make long jumps, which if done too much would give you soul-crushing jump fatigue. It's quicker, but you won't be able to make really long jumps for a while.
I may have a fundamental misunderstanding about Jump Fatigue however, since I stopped flying capitals before the Jump Fatigue changes.
CCP Dropbear: rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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Yroc Jannseen
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
134
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:24:56 -
[46] - Quote
I think the big thing that isn't being looked at, is factoring Jump Fatigue into the balance of individual ship classes.
Certain ships have no problem travelling by gates, obviously interceptors. But bigger subcaps are obviously less agile when it comes to taking gates and warping system by system. Why not give them an advantage in a fatigue reduction?
Of course subcap fleets are rarely all one class of ship, so that would obviously have to be looked at, but certainly something like Attack BC's have been used as single type fleets. I would think a bonus to jump fatigue could also fit into their hit and run role, except in this case mobility would be dependant on something else for bridging.
The key of course is figuring out that 2-3 jump curve that allows you to be tactical without getting into allow long distance travel to go crazy again.
The other thing that has been interesting with the evolution of capitals taking gates is how capitals are becoming integrated into subcap fleets. Triage is a big thing that stands out here. The problem of course that limits balance when talking about triage is the Ship Maintenance Bay. It's a tad clumsy, but would you consider giving triage modules a penalty to the SMB and drone bandwidth and a fatigue reduction while also increasing the module size so it could not be refit from the fleet hangar? The idea being that triage carriers become truly logistics only and in that role could gain the ability to jump more frequently. Part of this would work in concert with the idea about larger subcaps being more jump mobile. Also I think a lot of people would argue that the triage module itself is fairly balanced. |
Gabriel Karade
Noir. Mercenary Coalition
271
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:30:06 -
[47] - Quote
Not sure I would change anything tbh.
Things like 'move mode' sound compelling, with all sorts of scenarios/variations (been thinking for a while about having some sort of long 'spool up timers' to jump further than normal, but build up equivalent fatigue, as an example) but....
....the problem is always same; every thing designed to make moving that bit easier, still gives larger groups an easy option to project overwhelming power from a long way off, Roflstomping some poor sap "for the Lolz".
(particularly when there are eminently predictable things such as Sov/POS timers).
I guess people really just need to get used to the idea you don't move far, or if you do, it takes time and planning.
War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293
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Iori Asano
Bodacious Space Pirates
6
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:33:12 -
[48] - Quote
I'd like to see a flat rate for jump fatigue, none of this exponential bullshit.
Ranges could be slightly larger but for the most part i think its okay.
I'd like to learn more about this "hyper-drive". Is it like a minimum distance jump drive than has a long cooldown? |
Circumstantial Evidence
208
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Posted - 2015.08.12 21:49:24 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Larrikin's list:
- Altering jump ranges
Not now, this is a core element of major alliance planning that should not change often.
- Altering jump fatigue curves
Unsure. Agree with Quern's "light hand" suggestion.
- Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based
This idea was shot down in the Phoebe planning phase, and should stay shot.
- Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?)
If it was immensely expensive; the fatigue or range benefit should be no more than 5 - 10%.
- Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue)
Jumping from a capital system only, not back in: a small benefit for that first jump, would be cool.
- Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection
I see a lot of capital gate traffic; a small amount of fatigue per gate would make sense to me. WH has its own complications of mass limits and pseudo-randomness, I don't think it needs to be touched.
- Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement --- No.
- Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops... --- No.
- Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs)
No skills; it would simply become the thing everyone with a capital has to have, to fly a capital. Any module ("hyperdrive?") should be immensely expensive and give a mild benefit.
Similarly, expensive drugs or implants giving a small 5-10% benefit could be ok. I think a fatigue-reducing implant should come with drawbacks, like negating other implants that affect warp (esp. Ascendency). Any new methods of increasing range or reducing fatigue should be stacking-penalized.
I think any "active methods" should provide a better buff to economic activity, as rich players scramble to acquire a small advantage - than they would toward nerfing the Phoebe changes.
- What does local-content mean to you?
I 'liked' the first Querns post... Grrr Goons! There, I feel better. Phoebe changes have worked, more "local content" is staying local. Major alliances have had to split their capital forces, to keep a credible eye on activity outside their core area of interest.
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Michael Pawlicki
Aliastra Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2015.08.12 22:14:46 -
[50] - Quote
Jayne Fillon wrote:First! To answer your questions:
- Jump ranges are fine, they could be better, but they're okay. Keep capital/supercapital range equal.
- Jump fatigue needs to be capped at 120 hours so that Fatigue is ALWAYS gone by the next weekend
- Fatigue should remain character based, or people are just going to buy ships in duplicate and that's dumb.
- You should have a reduction in fatigue when returning to your capital system or point of origin.
- Jump fatigue should NOT affect combat effectiveness. At all. Ever.
- Move mode is a bandaid fix that isn't needed if the base mechanics themselves still allow enjoyable gameplay.
- Do not allow rigs or modules to reduce jump fatigue, but drugs would be okay if done right (w/ penalties etc).
- Local content means that I can fight in adjacent regions as much as I want, but not fight someone across the map.
Other suggestions:
- Make the use of jump bridges have a flat 90% reduction in fatigue when used, regardless of ship type.
- Give black ops battleships a reduction to jump fatigue.
- Give other ways for players in deep nullsec to reach empire without having to blue everyone in between.
- More suggestions as I think of them....
I very much like the idea of jump fatigue drugs. I would prefer to give them a slightly higher side effect chance, but that could be a very interesting industry, especially if the sites that have the materials for production are in 0.0 or 0.1 lowsec systems. |
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Michael Pawlicki
Aliastra Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2015.08.12 22:19:46 -
[51] - Quote
Alexis Nightwish wrote:Another pro-PL change brought to you by Larrikin and Manny!
Just as being able to get a fleet on top of capitals (due to their high sig radii making combat probing very fast) "needed" to be nerfed, now they "need" to undo all the good Phoebe did in order to promote their capital/supercap play style.
At least it appears that they won't **** the rest of the EVE playerbase when they remove something good this time.
Sorry if I misinterpreted this, but fatigue hits everyone who owns a capital, whether in PL or not. Even guys in wormholes hae issue with fatigue since it makes it harder to resupply lost caps, and jump freighters take longer to move things. It's a good idea but a poorly implemented mechanic that needs iteration on to make it less painful while still keeping content "local". I eagerly await your response. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
272
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Posted - 2015.08.12 22:21:42 -
[52] - Quote
Altering jump ranges The jump ranges for Combat Caps seems ok. The jump ranges for Jump Freighters seems ok. I think shortening the ranges further for either would be detrimental. I would be inclined to extend the range of combat caps, but that stems from wanting to move it with fewer jumps from point A to point B.
Altering jump fatigue curves I really do not have an opinion on this apart from it seems to be quite effective at limiting speedy movement.
Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based Very bad idea. Why even have jump fatigue if you are going to do this? Retain it as character based.
Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?) Hmmm.... Hyperspace. I like the idea. But it should take some time for the travel to take place (I suppose ship spinning in hyperspace is a bad idea) but does not require stopping in intermediary systems. Such a system of travel could use the sun in a system as a beacon. A new Citadel Structure could include the ability to detect Hyperspace travel and possibly interdict it. Hyperspace engines could be a Low or Mid slot add on, require a detectable "spool" time, and to add flavor the various modules and metas extend the range of the jumps. Small ships have a more limited range by default than larger ships... Could be used to reach Jove Space?
Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue) No. While it is attractive, no. But if you did add it... I suppose it would certainly encourage taking Sov in strategic locations to take the benefit of the Fatigue reduction. It might encourage more sov warfare or it might reignite the "blue donut".
Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection Jump Projection is ad hoc, controllable by those jumping and limited by range and fatigue (and the life span of the cyno ship). Gate to gate is predictable as you know where the gate leads from and to but without a scout on the other side you won't know what is there until you jump. Wormholes are unpredictable. You can try to force spawn them till you get to or close to the desired target, but in the end, they are not something any party controls apart from collapsing. Each is useful for what it is and each has their benefits and drawbacks.
Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement Will only encourage bigger and bigger blobbing to compensate for the loss in effectiveness. Keeping it as it is is better.
Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops (e.g. Transforming into move mode (24 hour process) reduces combat capacity to near 0) Give it fatigue like a Jump Freighter but the same range restriction it currently has.
Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs) No modules, Drugs might work....
What does local-content mean to you? Anything within 3 jumps. |
Max Kolonko
WATAHA. Unseen Wolves
530
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Posted - 2015.08.12 22:24:16 -
[53] - Quote
NoobMan wrote: ... TL:DR There needs to be an opportunity to travel in a reasonable time inside our Local spheres and return home and repeat as many times as there is content to be had.
Other thoughts: Some sort of Region based fatigue system. Inside the Region you live in, you are given a certain set of rules that allow you to travel quickly. Soon as you cross into another region you are hit with some type of fatigue. You go one more Region your hit again.
...
Maybe fatigue decay bonus / buildup reduction when jumping to / from systems close to Your capital system?
Read and support:
Don't mess with OUR WH's
What is Your stance on WH stuff?
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
1775
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Posted - 2015.08.12 22:43:27 -
[54] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:I 'liked' the first Querns post... Grrr Goons! There, I feel better.
Do not trouble yourself over this -- the truth transcends the limitations of one's in-game affiliation. I understand completely.
This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.
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Current Habit
Rusty Pricks
49
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Posted - 2015.08.12 23:08:52 -
[55] - Quote
In retrospect, it would've been better to just get a bunch of player questions, answer them in a huge devblog (along with metrics wherever possible).
In the beginning, the meeting was decent but deteriorated a shitshow (and that's what it's gonna be remembered as). |
Marranar Amatin
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2015.08.12 23:14:42 -
[56] - Quote
How about this: The system you start with at 0 fatigue counts as starting point A. Your fatigue cannot increase above the value that you would have gotten with a series of max distance jumps (without breaks), starting at A (maybe plus 20% or something like that). Otherwise everything is calculated normally. Since this is only a maximum value, it is virtually impossible that this change would lead to more fatigue at any point compared to now.
This will affect long distance projection only very slightly or not at all. If you travel long distances in a short time, you are below that maximum anyway. Since the maximum assumes jumps without break (which are not possible since you have reactivation) this will lead to a higher value than you would get after waiting for each timer. The +20% account for the assumed route optimization due to the assumed max range jumps (im just guessing with the +20%, maybe a different value is better).
But it would allow a pilot to operate round his starting point, without accumulating much fatigue. Jumping to a fight, jumping back home, and jumping right back into a fight, would not increase the fatigue much above the level of the first jump - the increase will never be more than 20% compared to the frist jump, you could do this all day long.
This keeps the original purpose of fatigue - force projection over long distances - intact, while mostly removing the side effect of hindering pilots to jump to fights in their home system. |
Jay Amazingness
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2015.08.12 23:23:40 -
[57] - Quote
75% fatigue reduction for black ops battleships (hull only) - bridge remains at 50% 50% fatigue reduction for jump bridges in systems with strategic index of 3 75% fatigue reduction for jump bridges in systems with strategic index of 4 90% fatigue reduction for jump bridges in systems with strategic index of 5
Carriers/dreadnoughts have their range upped to 7.5 lightyears with 50% of the fatigue they have now Supercarriers have their ranged upped to 6 lightyears however have 50 reduction bonus Titans remain 5 lightyears with 50% reduction bonus Rorquals range upped to 10 lightyears
15% fatigue reduction for Jump Portal Generators with racial Titan level 1 30% fatigue reduction for Jump Portal Generators with racial Titan level 2 45% fatigue reduction for Jump Portal Generators with racial Titan level 3 60% fatigue reduction for Jump Portal Generators with racial Titan level 4 75% fatigue reduction for Jump Portal Generators with racial Titan level 5
why are you punishing people for owning sov? i mean CCP really doesn't listen to their players for this sort of stuff but when people are unsubbing then they will act
http://jestertrek.com/eve/players/eve-players-since2008.png |
Geanos
V I R I I Ineluctable.
30
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 23:34:29 -
[58] - Quote
Everything is fine. The only thing I would change would be to allow caps to move through hi-sec gates to ease the pain of redeployment a little bit. Of course, while in hi-sec, players should be prevented to use any offensive, logistic or support modules and also launching drones, fighters or fighter bombers. |
Garrett Howe
Spectres
9
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 23:45:11 -
[59] - Quote
I think jump fatigue should reflect the great Eve values of risk and reward. -No limit on how frequently you can jump, fatigue still tied to player -Larger jumps add more fatigue, jumping in supercapitals builds fatigue faster than capitals, which build it faster than subcapitals -The more fatigue you have, the increased chance of exiting a jump with hull/module damage or some other detriment, up to complete loss of ship and/or pod
This way, there are no artificial limits restricting how players play, and each player has to evaluate the choice of whether to jump or not. Plus, would help thin down capital numbers which are excessive, to say the least. |
Moac Tor
Cy-Core Industries Stain Confederation
127
|
Posted - 2015.08.12 23:56:09 -
[60] - Quote
CCP Larrikin wrote:Hi Space Friends, Thanks for those that attended the Q&A session today, we appreciate those who took the time. We'd like to use this thread as a method of discussing Jump Fatigue ideas. Some of the interesting suggestions that we'd heard and would like to see player opinions on - - Altering jump ranges
- Altering jump fatigue curves
- Moving jump fatigue from character based to ship based
- Alternative FTL systems (Hyperdrive anyone?)
- Sovereignty effects on Jump Fatigue (e.g. jumping out of/back into capitals reducing jump fatigue)
- Balance of Jump projection v's Gate projection v's Wormhole projection
- Jump Fatigue effecting combat effectiveness instead of limiting movement
- Move-Mode for Capitals for move ops (e.g. Transforming into move mode (24 hour process) reduces combat capacity to near 0)
- Active methods of reducing jump fatigue (Modules, Skills, Drugs)
- What does local-content mean to you?
We'd also love to hear your ideas, post away space friends. Metrics Pron
The power projection changes were some of the best changes made in the last couple of years. It has added a lot more strategy to the game as a small entity now has a chance to use its own capitals without being stomped from half way across the universe.
If you are looking into this again then I'd suggest looking at reducing black ops and jump freighters in line with the other capital ships in terms of their jump range. Perhaps jump freighters should be reduced to around 8 LY, and black ops 5 LY
As for the jump fatigue, I've always thought it is a bit excessive that you can build unlimited amounts of fatigue, so that should probably be capped to a month worth of fatigue maximum.
As Malcanis posted above a lot of hard work was put into getting through these changes. I remember the resistance it was met with and I was happy to see Greyscale push them through in the end despite having to roll back the original plans for JFs.
My advice would actually be to not take too much notice of feedback you get here, but instead keep looking at the metrics and implement what you feel is best for the game as a whole. |
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