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Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5254
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Posted - 2015.08.13 22:16:29 -
[1] - Quote
Interesting to see what impact this has on the T2 BPO market, wish I was invested there right now.
After the Citadels are introduced you can get all of the benefits of Citadel science services with the same degree of safety as an NPC station - if your Citadel is destroyed, your T2 BPO is teleported to an NPC station and impounded.
Crius had just made it so that blueprints had to be at risk to benefit from non-station services, removing the ability to lock down a blueprint in a station and then use your POS to research it in the same system.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research Create Alliance
645
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Posted - 2015.08.13 23:18:53 -
[2] - Quote
Citadels aren't an industry focused structure, they may not be better than stations.
WTS ME 10 TE 20 BPOs & BPO Packs
WTS Collectible Large Rigged Small/Medium Ships
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Careby
229
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Posted - 2015.08.13 23:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Have they said anything about courier contracts to citadel structures?
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joyous the
Slippery Penguin The Crystal Palace
87
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Posted - 2015.08.14 01:06:25 -
[4] - Quote
The notion that people will want to ship to/from 0.0 to produce there is iffy at best. Logistics suck, especially now. Recent changes resulted in non-goon space changing hands, and continually doing so, and this is during the slow season. Any major producer isn't going to setup shop in space that isn't realistically insulated from disruption. Meaning Goon+pets are realistically the only logical area to benefit from any potential benefit circa now.
The flip side.
If there is such a reason to move a t2 bpo to 0.0 to produce for empire then the results will be counterproductive to empire. 0.0 producer with a benefit sells in empire on a leverage. Unwinnable price competition drives empire producer out. Enter the people who matter. Major interests compete for bpos, which in turn drives the bpo price up. After a while, after consolidation, we are left with a cartel controlled market; however, this time controlled at a price that is unviable to somebody who doesn't have a leverage; empire.
The middle
The people who matter simply do not care. 0.0 production for empire is a big undertaking. Without big backing, and big logistics, -even when conventional logistics are in place, the realistic feasibility of a mass undertaking is fools gold. With the absence of the people who matter then you are left with those hoping someday they will. A field in which a few people have a leverage against most people, but on a scale that isn't enough to cartel a market.. And most people, while technically able to compete simply do not have the know how, and assuming in many cases the will(i.e. moving to 0.0) to be able to effectively compete on the market, regardless whether or not they already have the required resources to compete(a t2 bpo). Thus you have a select few people who have bpos, the know how, the ambition, and the logistics to effectively throw chaos at the t2 market as empire competes against a minority of 0.0 that has a leverage on price.
Which obviously will lead to the eventualization that those on the leveraged but middle class field will go up, and in turn with money leads acquisition; and cartels are born again.
In conclusion? Chardonnay is good.
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goodlady Smith
Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy..
6
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Posted - 2015.08.14 02:07:13 -
[5] - Quote
I like the idea - it makes sections of space that are too 'scary' now more accessible. More people living in WH/Null = content.
I hear content is good.
Please like my posts it makes me feel better about the time I spend on the forums
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Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
181
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Posted - 2015.08.14 02:08:33 -
[6] - Quote
It all depends on the type of T2 BPO, one serious inventor can produce many multiples of units over a T2 BPO owner. There are only a few markets where a T2 BPO production volume has an affect on current prices. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5254
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Posted - 2015.08.14 03:30:23 -
[7] - Quote
joyous the wrote:The notion that people will want to ship to/from 0.0 to produce there is iffy at best. Logistics suck, especially now. Recent changes resulted in non-goon space changing hands, and continually doing so, and this is during the slow season. Any major producer isn't going to setup shop in space that isn't realistically insulated from disruption. Meaning Goon+pets are realistically the only logical area to benefit from any potential benefit circa now. The flip side. If there is such a reason to move a t2 bpo to 0.0 to produce for empire then the results will be counterproductive to empire. 0.0 producer with a benefit sells in empire on a leverage. Unwinnable price competition drives empire producer out. Enter the people who matter. Major interests compete for bpos, which in turn drives the bpo price up. After a while, after consolidation, we are left with a cartel controlled market; however, this time controlled at a price that is unviable to somebody who doesn't have a leverage; empire. The middle The people who matter simply do not care. 0.0 production for empire is a big undertaking. Without big backing, and big logistics, -even when conventional logistics are in place, the realistic feasibility of a mass undertaking is fools gold. With the absence of the people who matter then you are left with those hoping someday they will. A field in which a few people have a leverage against most people, but on a scale that isn't enough to cartel a market.. And most people, while technically able to compete simply do not have the know how, and assuming in many cases the will(i.e. moving to 0.0) to be able to effectively compete on the market, regardless whether or not they already have the required resources to compete(a t2 bpo). Thus you have a select few people who have bpos, the know how, the ambition, and the logistics to effectively throw chaos at the t2 market as empire competes against a minority of 0.0 that has a leverage on price. Which obviously will lead to the eventualization that those on the leveraged but middle class field will go up, and in turn with money leads acquisition; and cartels are born again. In conclusion? Chardonnay is good.
Citadels aren't 0.0 only. Some of them can even be in highsec.
Sir SmashAlot wrote:It all depends on the type of T2 BPO, one serious inventor can produce many multiples of units over a T2 BPO owner. There are only a few markets where a T2 BPO production volume has an affect on current prices.
I can build more than ten times as many units of Void M ammunition as a person that owns a single Void M BPO. The difference is, I'm building at a loss, they build at a profit, because gamewide Void M end user demand is less than the throughput of the BPOs that exist and I have to pay invention costs.
That's true of a lot of T2 modules, all T2 ammunition and some other things.
I'm confident (judging by patterns of how my buy orders are filled) that T2 BPOs have a non-negligible impact on even some of the higher demand T2 modules.
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1008
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Posted - 2015.08.14 04:19:50 -
[8] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Citadels aren't an industry focused structure, they may not be better than stations. This.
We have to wait until we know about the service, fitting and rigging options for citadels.
We also don't know how much the S&I specific structures are going to differ from citadels. Will they have the same asset safety mechanics? What role bonuses will they get? What will be their vulnerability characteristics? How will their fitting options compare?
We also don't know how much S&I functionality is going to remain within NPC stations and indestructible outposts in the long term.
But I'm hopeful that I'll be able to build a worthwhile, persistent, destructible, space factory complex again. Industry has been somewhat uninspiring for me since Crius devalued those into uselessness. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1008
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Posted - 2015.08.14 04:25:31 -
[9] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:gamewide Void M end user demand is less than the throughput of the BPOs that exist Which could and should be fixed by a balance pass on blueprint ranks and a separate balance pass on all T2 Ammo.
Production throughput on T2 ammo (and pretty much all other low-rank blueprints) should be lower, regardless of whether you are using a BPO or an invented BPC. This was messed up in Crius.
All T2 ammo types should be useful, but most are not. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
5254
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Posted - 2015.08.14 07:41:01 -
[10] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Sabriz Adoudel wrote:gamewide Void M end user demand is less than the throughput of the BPOs that exist Which could and should be fixed by a balance pass on blueprint ranks and a separate balance pass on all T2 Ammo. Production throughput on T2 ammo (and pretty much all other low-rank blueprints) should be lower, regardless of whether you are using a BPO or an invented BPC. This was messed up in Crius. All T2 ammo types should be useful, but most are not.
I did pick an ammunition type that gets used a moderate amount. It's not flavour of the month, but it has both PVP and PVE applications.
Solving the throughput issue is more important, but this appears to be an outright buff to T2 BPO throughput (given most T2 BPO owners do not use science/industry POSes as far as I can tell).
Shoot everyone. Let the Saviour sort it out.
I enforce the New Haliama Code of Conduct via wardec ops. Ignorance of the law is no excuse - read about requirements for highsec miners at www.minerbumping.com
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1009
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Posted - 2015.08.14 08:40:55 -
[11] - Quote
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:I did pick an ammunition type that gets used a moderate amount. It's not flavour of the month, but it has both PVP and PVE applications Indeed, but there are many T2 ammo types and T2 modules that do not have such uses. There is a balance issue with those items that needs to be addressed. Doing so will benefit the game in many areas, not just industry.
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:Solving the throughput issue is more important Absolutely. I feel reducing the production throughput of low rank items is the most important thing that can be done to EVE industry today. I even feel it is more important than giving us decent structures, a decent corp roles system or a decent contracts system, although all of these things are critical to improving our industry system as a whole.
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:but this appears to be an outright buff to T2 BPO throughput We don't know yet, because we don't know if there will be any advantages over NPC stations at all.
I assume there will be advantages to be gained from rigs and fittings, but so far we can only guess what those will be. We have been told that there will be fuel costs associated with services, so S&I functionality at a Citadel will come at a higher cost.
This may be an outright buff, but it may also be six of one and half a dozen of the other.
We also don't know if there will be any NPC stations with S&I facilities in the long term, so the current "safe option" may be time limited.
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:given most T2 BPO owners do not use science/industry POSes as far as I can tell Some do. Many more produce in outposts. Both give bonuses over NPC stations right now.
I think that any re-working of S&I related structures should be done in such a way that overall throughput is reduced. Re-balance the ranks, reduce throughput and then roll out structures with a host of buffing options that bring throughput back up by some of what was lost.
Also S&I bonuses and fitting options should explore more options than just throughput bonuses, like material reductions, installation cost reductions, index impact reductions and material recovery options on job cancellation. With fuel costs associated with services and considerable set up costs involved in the structures themselves we can have a system of interesting choices and trade-offs... not just a matter of EVE-IPH, cup of coffee, NPC station... profit.
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Hemmo Paskiainen
495
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Posted - 2015.08.15 00:48:48 -
[12] - Quote
Copy in high sec -> move to where ever you want manufacture = problem solved
"Relativity equals time plus momentum: if it can be erased by a single click on a button, would it be worth spending your time?"
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Wide Awake
Proxy Gallore
0
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Posted - 2015.08.17 00:41:48 -
[13] - Quote
I do think citadels will increase the throughput of T2 bpos but if its only the 25% reduction aka a 33% buff then should that effect the prices the same amount?
On a related note I wonder how Citadels will effect Reactions. If they remove the need of various components feeding into each other and it become closer to a blueprint it will be much more accessible. |
Jori McKie
Viziam Amarr Empire
263
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Posted - 2015.08.18 10:38:35 -
[14] - Quote
Wide Awake wrote:On a related note I wonder how Citadels will effect Reactions. If they remove the need of various components feeding into each other and it become closer to a blueprint it will be much more accessible.
Depending on how the new structures are implemented, it could be way more easier to run reactions without a big POS farm.
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."
--áAbrazzar
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1026
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Posted - 2015.08.29 12:32:53 -
[15] - Quote
Still no news on the actual production benefits, but the vulnerability and asset safety mechanics look pretty good for viable T2 production. |
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
182
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Posted - 2015.08.29 20:55:31 -
[16] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Still no news on the actual production benefits, but the vulnerability and asset safety mechanics look pretty good for viable T2 production.
I wonder what the % fee will be. While less risk than current POS mechanics, you could effectively bankrupt an entity if the fee is large enough and they put too many eggs into that basket.
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