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Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
17
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Posted - 2015.09.06 11:57:10 -
[91] - Quote
Just a quick post to let everyone know that I'm changing how you view your account. I'm going to be publishing it as a webpage and not sharing the documents anymore.
You'll be able to open this ingame and view it just as you were able to before.
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
17
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Posted - 2015.09.07 23:52:20 -
[92] - Quote
I would like to open up for discussion an idea I had today, I must admit it came to me while reviewing the Illegal Investments accounts and the Interest you are all building up ;)
The idea was to head into more of a Hedgefund route.
Everyone being paid out based on the % of ISK they have deposited against everyone else.
For example,
Barry has 1b invested
Jackson as 2b invested
At the end of the month Barry would receive 33% of the months profit and Jackson would receive 66%
Illegal Investments would take a cut before the profit is dished out but I was thinking about taking this direction with Illegal Investments instead. It feels to me more like we are in it together this way and not so much me just paying out isk.
Opinions?
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Thor Nergal
Impass Shipyards
5
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:08:47 -
[93] - Quote
Illegal Spokeswoman wrote:I would like to open up for discussion an idea I had today, I must admit it came to me while reviewing the Illegal Investments accounts and the Interest you are all building up ;)
The idea was to head into more of a Hedgefund route.
Everyone being paid out based on the % of ISK they have deposited against everyone else.
For example,
Barry has 1b invested
Jackson as 2b invested
At the end of the month Barry would receive 33% of the months profit and Jackson would receive 66%
Illegal Investments would take a cut before the profit is dished out but I was thinking about taking this direction with Illegal Investments instead. It feels to me more like we are in it together this way and not so much me just paying out isk.
Opinions?
Hmmmm,
Illegal you need to be careful of making to many changes at once, particularly to current/existing products.
At this point I am of the opinion that I have a interest-bearing account that pays out x% per day. Not shares that pay out a dividend thus I am at this stage not happy to go ahead with another change.
Anyway in relation to the proposed change You need to show us a real example as in
July profit = x isk invested funds = y isk dividend payable per z isk = p
makes it a lot easier to see the impact of the change.
Some questions;
1. How often do you plan to calculate the profit/loss? 2. What happens when a loss occurs (you wear it, investors wear it)? 3. When can investors request withdrawals.
To summarise this idea almost requires a new thread. |
Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
17
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:24:43 -
[94] - Quote
Thor Nergal wrote:Illegal Spokeswoman wrote:I would like to open up for discussion an idea I had today, I must admit it came to me while reviewing the Illegal Investments accounts and the Interest you are all building up ;)
The idea was to head into more of a Hedgefund route.
Everyone being paid out based on the % of ISK they have deposited against everyone else.
For example,
Barry has 1b invested
Jackson as 2b invested
At the end of the month Barry would receive 33% of the months profit and Jackson would receive 66%
Illegal Investments would take a cut before the profit is dished out but I was thinking about taking this direction with Illegal Investments instead. It feels to me more like we are in it together this way and not so much me just paying out isk.
Opinions? Hmmmm, Illegal you need to be careful of making to many changes at once, particularly to current/existing products. At this point I am of the opinion that I have a interest-bearing account that pays out x% per day. Not shares that pay out a dividend thus I am at this stage not happy to go ahead with another change. Anyway in relation to the proposed change You need to show us a real example as in July profit = x isk invested funds = y isk dividend payable per z isk = p makes it a lot easier to see the impact of the change. Some questions; 1. How often do you plan to calculate the profit/loss? 2. What happens when a loss occurs (you wear it, investors wear it)? 3. When can investors request withdrawals. To summarise this idea almost requires a new thread.
I was considering writing a new thread but just stuck it on the end here anyway.
I'm just going through calculations now. It's also very unlikely that I would suffer a loss with my trading.
Here is a quick example of something I was fiddling with in my spreadsheets.
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Siona Teg
New Groton Industrial Works
0
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:54:37 -
[95] - Quote
The example illustrates the concept.
However, I would like to see a list of active accounts showing amount invested. This would give each investor/depositor an idea of where we stand regarding their individual amount invested and total invested. This can be blind with no listing of depositor names by the amount invested.
Showing this with an estimate of actual earnings would allow us to evaluate the return based on the amount invested.
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Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
17
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Posted - 2015.09.08 01:05:44 -
[96] - Quote
I'm just banging out some calculations now.
I'm also speaking with some friends regarding it. I would feel much better with this but obviously as Thor stated. Cant go changing things every week :D
I don't think it would be a change over. It would have to be a "Closing and Reopening".
Would also allow me to relax more and not worry so much about making sure I reach certain amounts each day
Still in the early stages though. I think at this point people know I'm not a theif and unless they are cruel will be happy with my finding something that I feel 100% comfortable operating to benefit us both.
II
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
18
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:06:42 -
[97] - Quote
ok, after much discussion and number crunching we're going to see how September does in regards to profit.
The numbers all suggest that the Hedge fund setup would pay more to investors than the current bank setup so once September is done we're going to test this again with a full months data and then make some decisions.
II
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Thor Nergal
Impass Shipyards
5
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Posted - 2015.09.08 02:41:47 -
[98] - Quote
Illegal,
Please also put some thought into the following;
Withdrawal dates, Dividend date, How you will pay the dividend,
Also I am all for new products, just remember that you need to be able to show why we should use them.
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Nero Farway
Selectivity
33
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Posted - 2015.09.08 08:42:30 -
[99] - Quote
Illegal Spokeswoman wrote:I would like to open up for discussion an idea I had today.
Illegal Spokeswoman wrote: The idea was to potentially head into more of a Hedgefund route.
Everyone being paid out based on the % of ISK they have deposited against everyone else.
1.) Now that would mean that investors do not only have to trust your integrity, but also your skills and abilities to re-invest the ISK in game. However, I think its an interesting concept. The only thing that I would really want is a fixed amount of shares that are being initially issued at a fixed price, but are freely tradeable (preferably via the in-game system, that would also make paying out dividends easier. It can be done with a separate corp to prevent it from being abused). That would keep the spirit of the free market alive since, based on your performance and the current capital of illegal investments, theses shares will be traded at free market prices.
So say you have 50b of capital yourself (Net-Worth of Illegal investments - liabilities). Say you think you can easily trade with up to 200b. You then go ahead and issue ... say 200,000 shares @1mil each and you keep 50,000 of then (that represents your own capital). You then sell 150,000 shares here for 150b. These should come with at least partial voting rights regarding important stuff (like re-issuing shares, adding another business branch etc. but also voting right in regards to dividends paid). How say after 1 months Illegal investments is worth 250b, a 25% increase. Each share would now represent 1,25mil. If theres a dividend, lets say, 1%, then everyone gets 12,500 ISK per share but each share would now only represent 1,237,500 ISK.
However, since the shares are freely tradeable this doesnt have to be the price on the market. The market price would be affected by supply and demand, trust in the II (Illegal Investments) leadership, but also past and potential future dividends and price increases. Because of that, people would talk about it, especially here in MD, maybe opensing WTB/WTS order threads etc. This in term would give II a lot of publicity, which leads to 2.)
2.) This share thing can be used IN ADDITION to the current interest-bearing account. While the shares represent a part of II and are a sure thing in regards to capitalization (II doesn't have to buy them back, it can plan ahead with the capital a lot better), they also represent a long-term liability to II. If not all capital can be invested due to whatever reason, this might be running at a loss. The interest-bearing accounts can be used to quickly gain capitalization (ppl depositing) and to quickly get rid of liabilities (paying then out) at a predetermined rate. This might proof to be a very important part of II especially when diving into new branches. This would also show that II really thought about what amount it can profitably invest and what is too much. The amount that can be profitably invested can be gained through the sale of shares and everything that comes up later can be covered by these interest-bearing accounts. That doesn't exclude re-issuing some shares if shareholders agree.
3.) Whats in it for II? With the current model, it's pretty obvious. Investors get a certain amount per day depending on their investment and II gets to keep all the money in excess. With a share model, that wouldn't apply anymore. Others would get the same dividend and value appreciation per share as II itself, but with less effort than II. Thats where this comes in:
Illegal Spokeswoman wrote: Illegal Investments would take a cut before the profit is dished out but I was thinking about taking this direction with Illegal Investments instead. It feels to me more like we are in it together this way and not so much me just paying out isk.
Opinions?
Depending on what "taking a cut" is, I think thats a very good idea. Now the important thing is that, if a share represents a certain percentage of II, then not paying out all profit is not "taking a cut". It's still a value appreciation for the investor. 5% dividend and 3% value appreciation (through a net-asset increase in II) is still a 8%profit. Same for 1% dividend and 7% value appreciation. Not paying out too much is important in order to scale (and in order to maybe buy back some interest-bearing account liabilities).
"Taking a cut" would be an either flat payout to the guy running II (to his personal Account), or a percentage based on the profit made that month, or, what I think is best, a combination of both. A flat payout that has to be agreed upon by all shareholders, plus a percentage of the profit (also to be agreed upon). That would add motivation, since a good months earns more, but it would also provide a sure income each month (even if II operates at a loss that month for whatever reason). He he wanted, he would then buy II-shares on the free market with that payout :D
Just my 2 ISK. You asked for opinions :) |
Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
18
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Posted - 2015.09.08 09:56:00 -
[100] - Quote
Thanks for the input, Thor no changes are likely to happen to the banking section, it is more likely that this will either run seperately or replace it. We are going to wait till the end of the month to see how September does and use the data from that to properly assess how things might work. Though I'm quite inclined to keep the bank going as I've already put a lot of effort into it :)
Nero, I found what you put very interesting, I like the ideas you mentioned and particularly liked the share idea, though I'd want to make a separate corporation to decrease the chance of a "take over" so to speak :)
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Nero Farway
Selectivity
33
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Posted - 2015.09.08 10:08:20 -
[101] - Quote
Illegal Spokeswoman wrote:
Nero, I found what you put very interesting, I like the ideas you mentioned and particularly liked the share idea, though I'd want to make a separate corporation to decrease the chance of a "take over" so to speak :)
Thanks! Yeah there could just be a dummy corporation that is used for share & dividend management. I am looking forward to the coming changes. |
Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.09.08 17:16:37 -
[102] - Quote
Illegal Spokeswoman wrote:I would like to open up for discussion an idea I had today.
The idea was to potentially head into more of a Hedgefund route.
Everyone being paid out based on the % of ISK they have deposited against everyone else.
For example,
Barry has 1b invested
Jackson as 2b invested
At the end of the month Barry would receive 33% of the months profit and Jackson would receive 66%
Illegal Investments would take a cut before the profit is dished out but I was thinking about taking this direction with Illegal Investments instead. It feels to me more like we are in it together this way and not so much me just paying out isk.
Opinions?
I'm scratching my head on this one. You mention that profits would be divided at the end of the month with Illegal (ie: you) taking a cut. Later you say the investors should do better under this model. The flip side is you would then do worse. Why? Why are you heading down a path that puts more and more work on you and less and less reward for that work?
I have to say that this appears more and more like a ponzi where you are in the final stage of freezing the investors to get the last few suckers before it collapses. Combine with no trading results for the last couple of weeks - wow, I'd be concerned if invested.
Hope to be proven wrong.
Darion |
Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2015.09.08 17:40:48 -
[103] - Quote
You deleted the public EVE Mogul key in your lead post but forgot to delete a later post with it in it. Here for people's benefit:
http://www.eve-mogul.com/profile/2750
Shows a little over 2B in profits this month, 355m yesterday, 160m so far today. That is the inflow. For outflow, you are showing 150m in daily interest in your account page. So you are making payroll so to speak but not a lot more. Care to comment?
Darion |
virm pasuul
FRISKY BUSINESS. No Handlebars.
317
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Posted - 2015.09.09 12:29:39 -
[104] - Quote
I was hoping this one would go much further before it popped. I wanna see a proper tulip bubble story. |
Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
18
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Posted - 2015.09.09 13:20:33 -
[105] - Quote
Hello, Darion and virm
I'll start of by apologising for my late reply as I didn't check the forums last night and was away this morning.
The "Bank" hasn't popped. The eve mogul page was not removed to hide it from anyone, if I wanted to hide it I would have disabled public assess on eve mogul itself. I'm sorry to disappoint you both, Illegal Investments is not as was never a scam attempt.
Yes the isk being made is covering the costs of interest, my plex and a little on top. I see no issue here. Account holders will still get their interest regardless of Illegal Investments performance. Illegal Investments is currently operating in surplus.
Isk is not Illegal Investments primary objective, isk is not what drives me to log on everyday. Isk is a by-product of my gameplay.
Hopefully this provides some clarity, if not feel free to post again and i'll do my best to answer your questions.
II
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2015.09.09 14:43:37 -
[106] - Quote
No worries, and actually no more questions. Just felt weird that you set up the bank, give out fairly high interest rates - 16% monthly. Then reduce that to 10% to be more sustainable. Then begin discussing changing the model to profit sharing with a fixed cut to yourself. Which, unless the fixed cut is gigantic means you went back to what is in essence a higher interest rate. Top that with poor investment gains and it had (and has) me wondering.
Hoping this all turns out well for you and your investors.
Darion |
Dextrome Thorphan
Intrepid Crossing
130
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Posted - 2015.09.09 14:50:33 -
[107] - Quote
Darion Maken wrote:No worries, and actually no more questions. Just felt weird that you set up the bank, give out fairly high interest rates - 16% monthly. Then reduce that to 10% to be more sustainable. Then begin discussing changing the model to profit sharing with a fixed cut to yourself. Which, unless the fixed cut is gigantic means you went back to what is in essence a higher interest rate. Top that with poor investment gains and it had (and has) me wondering.
Hoping this all turns out well for you and your investors.
Darion
It doesn't really sound all that fishy imo...
Switching from a fixed intrest rate to a dividend system does not translate into a higher intrest rate. It will actually ensure that Illegal will never have to pay more intrest than profit that he made. Which sounds pretty reasonable to me. |
Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
19
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Posted - 2015.09.09 15:27:31 -
[108] - Quote
I wanted to open up the other idea for discussion to get some feedback and possibly help with some ideas or issues I hadn't considered.
Please don't think I'm making changes hastily, a lot of thought goes into each and every decision and direction Illegal Investments takes. I have RL friends which are always happy to discuss things as well as account holders who are always happy to give feedback when it concerns their isk.
As Dextrome mentioned, not having to worry about interest and just having a payout each month would keep things simpler and easier to run. There are still things to be flushed out such as how the payouts would be handled, what to do with the bank if I wanted to start this other venture, etc etc.
I understand how a new system might be a little confusing as it could potentially mean more isk for the investors than the bank set-up but the ease and simplicity is something that attracts me to that.
As mentioned in a post above somewhere, I'm going to use September statistics to get a better idea of how the idea might work and make an informed decision.
II
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2015.09.09 15:30:36 -
[109] - Quote
Dextrome Thorphan wrote:
It doesn't really sound all that fishy imo...
Switching from a fixed intrest rate to a dividend system does not translate into a higher intrest rate. It will actually ensure that Illegal will never have to pay more intrest than profit that he made. Which sounds pretty reasonable to me.
Hmmm....Illegal was doing somewhere south of 1 billion a day in trading profits back in July and August. That's with his money. He's since opened a bank. Gathered almost 50 billion in uncollaterlized deposits. Pays out 150m in interest a day and had his daily profits drop to around 200m a day. Now he's looking at changing the model to profit sharing. Shouldn't he be focused on doing something with that extra 50 billion? That sort of money should have easily pushed him into 2 billion a day in trading profits.
None of that sounds fishy?
On a side note, I'll be posting soon for a 50 billion ISK loan. Coincidentally, I'll offer a 10% interest rate with no collateral on my part. As an additional benefit I'll add a 5 billion ISK profit sharing payout if I make my trading goal for October. Any similarities to all the posts above would stop at the point that the 50 billion would actually result in increasing my daily trading profits. Perhaps Illegal Investments could be one of the investors?
Darion |
Nero Farway
Selectivity
34
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Posted - 2015.09.09 15:40:57 -
[110] - Quote
I just withdrew 3b. The withdrawal got processed quickly (within a few minutes). |
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Darion Maken
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2015.09.09 15:54:23 -
[111] - Quote
Darion Maken wrote:
Hmmm....Illegal was doing somewhere south of 1 billion a day in trading profits back in July and August. That's with his money. He's since opened a bank. Gathered almost 50 billion in uncollaterlized deposits. Pays out 150m in interest a day and had his daily profits drop to around 200m a day. Now he's looking at changing the model to profit sharing. Shouldn't he be focused on doing something with that extra 50 billion? That sort of money should have easily pushed him into 2 billion a day in trading profits.
None of that sounds fishy?
On a side note, I'll be posting soon for a 50 billion ISK loan. Coincidentally, I'll offer a 10% interest rate with no collateral on my part. As an additional benefit I'll add a 5 billion ISK profit sharing payout if I make my trading goal for October. Any similarities to all the posts above would stop at the point that the 50 billion would actually result in increasing my daily trading profits. Perhaps Illegal Investments could be one of the investors?
Darion
Re-read and realized I'm getting snarky. Sorry about that. I'm going to let this rest and watch from the sidelines. On a more positive note, I may actually post for a loan. While I wrote the above in jest, on some thought, it appears there is money out there actively looking for a return. Perhaps I can provide a month or two return for those folks.
Illegal - best of luck on this bank model. I only see this working with an altruistic person who is willing to pay for the idea out of his profits. I hope you are that person.
Darion |
Dextrome Thorphan
Intrepid Crossing
130
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Posted - 2015.09.09 16:28:58 -
[112] - Quote
Don't get me wrong Darion, I didn't say I completely trust it either :)
Just saying I'm still giving Illegal the benefit of the doubt... I've just got a tiny bit of isk invested, we'll see how it turns out. |
illumed
Hashshashin Inc.
0
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Posted - 2015.09.09 16:31:21 -
[113] - Quote
Interested in 1-2 month return with 3rd party :D |
Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
19
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Posted - 2015.09.12 17:54:05 -
[114] - Quote
Illegal Investments, back on top!
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
20
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Posted - 2015.09.15 10:54:35 -
[115] - Quote
Hello again, just a quick little update.
The my eve-mogul was having issues related to the eveonline login, yesterday had all of the account data migrated onto a new account.
The public profile box is ticked but if the link no longer works I'll make a new one.
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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goodlady Smith
Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy..
37
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Posted - 2015.09.16 10:53:08 -
[116] - Quote
I have been watching as was keen to get in on the action if this stood for a while but your API seems to no longer function, will you enable again?
Please like my posts it makes me feel better about the time I spend on the forums
Buy your drugs from: Charlinda Akheteru, AIA Pharmaceuticals
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Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
20
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Posted - 2015.09.16 11:04:58 -
[117] - Quote
Yes, I was having some issues with eve mogul and a long story short I remade my API even though it didn't fix anything haha.
Here's the new one.
KeyID : 4681071 vCode : xClpX2UspnUHcZa8kDrmjQYfgcXfC9gOQuutaJJGQRE1JpGbMRSLThEddDxRSso1
Has access to the corporation Wallet Journal and Balance.
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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Stella Lass
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:12:53 -
[118] - Quote
1 bill deposited |
Illegal Spokeswoman
Illegal Investments
20
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Posted - 2015.09.16 15:14:27 -
[119] - Quote
Account sorted and account link set.
II
Gÿà Illegal Investments Gÿà Banking Gÿà
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goodlady Smith
Exit-Strategy Exit Strategy..
37
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Posted - 2015.09.16 19:32:48 -
[120] - Quote
Illegal Spokeswoman wrote:Yes, I was having some issues with eve mogul and a long story short I remade my API even though it didn't fix anything haha.
Here's the new one.
KeyID : 4681071 vCode : xClpX2UspnUHcZa8kDrmjQYfgcXfC9gOQuutaJJGQRE1JpGbMRSLThEddDxRSso1
Has access to the corporation Wallet Journal and Balance.
II
Working again thanks
Please like my posts it makes me feel better about the time I spend on the forums
Buy your drugs from: Charlinda Akheteru, AIA Pharmaceuticals
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