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Count TaSessine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.10 10:29:00 - [1] Originally by: n sx Edited by: n sx on 04/12/2006 08:40:06 Originally by: Leffe Please enlighten us. What are the dangers that ISS pose to the rest of the 0.0 community. I really would like to know. You're either completely new to ISS or are truly blind. IAC, as freespace advocates, much like yourselves pride ourselves and generally treasure neutrals and nearby friends operating from our infrastructure. Ultimatey its good business. The simple requirement to operate in IAC space is to refrain from being hostile towards IAC and preferably assisting us with defences of the area. Consistent offenders of IAC policy are actively hunted and station facilities removed. In that respect, additional to the fact we actively police our space technically makes it more beneficial to neutrals than ISS could even claim to be. The point that has been brought up in this thread is COMPLETELY true. In the 12 months IAC and ISS have been neighbours, the 'little' backstabs are near impossible to count, and the MONUMENTAL ones seem to happen every 6 months. We have merely turned a blind eye in the interest of keeping the peace. Your claims of absolute neutrality as you like to use when you choose in affect can facilitate the destruction of long time allies. How would you feel, if an alliance with 25+ dreads used IAC stations to siege you, one jump from two of your own and we simply allowed them to do it? Oh, add to the fact the CEO of IAC would be sitting at one of your POS' being sieged, in a pod watching. Tell me what that tastes like? .... if you can't imagine, please just ask. I'm not blatently accusing you all of being underhanded, I know for a fact some of you despise some of the backstabbing and intel sharing and know that others have left ISS because of it. There will always be those that ruin it for others, but ISS needs to take A side, and stick by it. Your consistent claim of neutrality will in the end be your destruction and this fact is becoming obvious as more and more corps and alliances turn on you. You cannot 'stay out' of the battles you choose and then fight in others without causing some kind of ripples in someone elses pond. It's not the front line policy and charter of ISS that's dangerous to fellow 0.0 inhabitants, it's the dealings that occur in the background that you're unable to police and the protection that your public policy allows. Add to that the added protection of public investors in your outposts and you've got even more of a cushion. Hi n sx I'm not usually one to air laundry in public, dirty or not, but it seems a bit too many myths are building up regarding ISS. 1/ The MC attack on IAC: the MC dread fleet was based in Fabrica during the UNITY campaign. As the campaign wound down, ISS left the area and the MC guys stayed on for a couple weeks to help UK stabilise the situation. Then, one friday, ISS Management, the whole team, went to London for a reallife meeting. Sometime during the weekend, I logged on to Eve-O from an internet cafT to check up on things. Two surprises awaited me: you guys had built a gallente outpost and someone, including MC, were attacking you. From the forums it wasn't really clear what was going on.. When we got back on Sunday, we started figuring out what was happening. 2/ ISS refused passage to the invasion fleet for a couple of hours in ZXIC. ISSN command stood down after a while because FIX were blue to us. Why were they blue? Because they had asked for it a few days earlier (probably because they were planning the attack on you). We had no reasons to deny them a NAP, so they got it. >>> Chairman, ISS
Count TaSessine ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.10 10:32:00 - [2] 3/ MC staging out of Fabrica. Believe it or not, but it took a couple more days to figure that one out. Contrary to what you think, ISS is not that tight. The Providence people didn't think anything of the MC dreads because they were used to seeing them during the Unity campaign and thus didn't report it to us. When we realised, we asked them to get out and they all moved somewhere else, Litom, I think. 4/ Yes at one point I was checking out an assault MC were doing on one of your POS. The reason was simply that I was curious to see what kind of force they were capable of fielding with FIX. I didn't mean to offend your feelings. Sorry about that one, I'm a nub, what can I say.. :-) 5/ Now, as for the 'major backstabs' you mention, we revised the Charter especially to avoid having to step out if a friend is attacked in the future. Now, if you read it, you will see no more mention of 'neutral', but 'apolitical': we have one master now, and one master only: the shareholders, which equals taking care of the financial wellbeing of their assets, ie the outposts. Considering the fact that IAC are freespace advocates and that you have always promoted trade, it is a no brainer that it's in our interest that you keep hold of the stations you paid for and that you built. 6/ To wind this long post down, I'll address the 'major backstabs'. There have been two that could be construed as major backstabs by you guys. The first is when Curse Coalition, led by VIRII (and Priory, who later joined your alliance), attacked ISS Tycho. You helped us as you were also -10 to VIRII. At one point VIRII asked for a ceasefire. This we granted (because the Charter seemed to direct it), and we allowed them to pull out of the system. We napped them, and they later left the region. You felt we left you out to dry because VIRII continued shooting at you and I can understand that. In retrospective we should have acted differently and we should have stood side by side with IAC against the Doril pirates. VIRII didn't deserve to be let off the hook so easy. Under the new charter we would not have had to act like that, but thats all water under the bridge. I don't know if it makes any difference, but I'd like to offer my apologies for the way we handled the situation back then. The remaining 'backstab' would be the McFIX attack, and I went over that already. Now to re-iterate one last time, ISS does not have any intentions whatsoever of breaking our NAP and attacking you. Feel free to convo me. Regards Count Chairman, ISS
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:08:00 - [3] No mention of the change of standings for Fix on the Friday night... Why not, i gather they are still hostile to ISS according to a post in another thread yet, 1 night before the McFix attack your Director Team grant docking rights to Fix at the ISS stations, an Alliance Hostile always in the past and still Hostile at the moment to ISS. Curious timing and decision making. Yes i also felt the Blade strike my back as you put the knife into every IAC fleet member that rallied to defend YOUR system, for the greater good of the community in that area. Left hung out to Dry. I was once ex ISS but to many political events have shifted my viewpoint on your Organisation. You play a dangerous political game behind the scenes while maintaining the face of an innocent child caught stealing the 1 penny sweetie at the confectionary shop when you are rumbled. It just dosn't work on me anymore.
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:15:00 - [4] Another attempt at trying to fix the already horrible ISS-reputation... Sadly this is too little and too late. Too many loose ends, and your post does nothing to tie them together. 1/10 for the effort, 10/10 for the upcoming drama. ____________ The Priory Killboard
Verone Veto.	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:21:00 - [5] It's over ISS, You are no longer a "neutral" entity in New Eden. Your own arrogance, and attempts to manipulate every standing change, open or stealth has made this a certainty, a fact. VETO FOR HIRE
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:23:00 - [6] Just to clarify one thing for those that support ISS out there. The large Alliances love them, they can be manipulated rather easily to create unrest and be used as support when it suits them. An Ace in the pocket - i can understand why they see ISS as a tool to be used to advance their prospects. ISS will and always have bent over backwords to anyone the perceive as being a powerhouse within the Community. Their management team strive to become the next powerhouse themselves - all in the name of the shareholder, they do this by giving ill favours to Alliances that can give them a bunk up the political ladder. However if you are a medium sized Alliance with localised interests - beware ISS and its long term goals. At some point its going to trample all over you. Not long ago ISS Navy posted a rather interesting thread where they attemtped to flex their muscles a little bit, proclaiming the "bit Part Alliances" better watch their backs. It was an I'll Advised thread that was ambiguous at best. Not content with a direct threat it set aside BOB,LV,MC - proclaimed them as the powerhouses of the game and gave them cordial worship (and in doing so attempted to ensure its ego did not get above its station and make them targets of their wrath) and them proceeded to threaten any other Alliance that should oppose them. In this thread ISS revealed its thoughts and desires, it does perceive itself as a the 4th powerhouse of the game. Interestingly no note was given to any Northern Alliance.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:24:00 - [7] I think there's an adage, that you should judge a person by their enemies. Probably am misquoting that somewhere. But I have to say, I am impressed by the sheer quality and effort going into the smear campaign. Makes me feel loved.
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Muadeeb Ousil No mention of the change of standings for Fix on the Friday night... Why not, i gather they are still hostile to ISS according to a post in another thread yet, 1 night before the McFix attack your Director Team grant docking rights to Fix at the ISS stations, an Alliance Hostile always in the past and still Hostile at the moment to ISS. Curious timing and decision making. Yes i also felt the Blade strike my back as you put the knife into every IAC fleet member that rallied to defend YOUR system, for the greater good of the community in that area. Left hung out to Dry. I was once ex ISS but to many political events have shifted my viewpoint on your Organisation. You play a dangerous political game behind the scenes while maintaining the face of an innocent child caught stealing the 1 penny sweetie at the confectionary shop when you are rumbled. It just dosn't work on me anymore. if your refering to my comment i all my information is old news fix were kos on iss standings, what they are now i have no idea don't go using my posts for information i am just a forum ***** knowledge is power.... guard it well
Del369 Caldari Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:29:00 - [9] <=== Also ex ISS, left to join IAC, and here's the thing Count, why its such a bitter pill, when were in ISS, IAC and ISS were friends very close friends, jumping to help each other, because it was the right thing to do, and we joined IAC from ISS under that auspisice (dont even know if i can use that word there lol) You were our first step into 0.0 and for that personally i'll always be grateful, and it was with that in mind that when in IAC, and IAC heard that CC had placed POS's in ZXIC, we formed up to come help, we weren't ordered or even asked to iirc, we just did because our friends were in trouble. Now you imagine how deep we felt that knife slide in when we were in ZXIC defending your space, out of friendship, when we suddenly hear that ISS is standing down, and while the fighting is still raging you've napped our mutual enemy, i mean ffs what were you thinking, and yea that did cut deep, with that single act you broke the best friendship ISS could ever have had in that area. Mind you i am pleasantly suprised to see some sort of apology at long last, and personally it's appreciated, i don't know if the members of IAC would or should be so forgiving though, but it is a start i guess, and i really hope you have learned the lesson there. this is all mho, it may or may not reflect the views of my Corp and or Alliance etc etc etc Originally by: Wrangler That is an outright lie! We don't want to discriminate anyone! We want both anti-social and social players to grief each other!
Rocko MonkeyBone Oberon Incorporated	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:38:00 - [10] Edited by: Rocko MonkeyBone on 10/12/2006 11:38:43 At one point I was the alliance leader for CHIMP. During my time we set up multiple coverts around ISS outposts near our space. Even had some docked up there. they were there for 1 reason, to watch who was using ISS outposts. RA and their pals were regular visitors to your stations to mount assaults into CHIMP space. One time inparticular was when we destroyed a large hostile gang, when they were podded... strangely enough they appeared in an ISS station.....odd? ISS have even engaged CHIMP on a few occasions, and YOUR diplomats say it was an accident... strange as BLUE on my overview means "Dont shoot"..... Hence you were neutral to us for some time, and we used your outposts for getting some easy kills as known hostiles undocked to use your space for ratting/mining and a staging point. Neutral you be.. and neutral you shall stay.

Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:39:00 - [11] Can we please start an "Official" ISS Bashing Sticky .......
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:40:00 - [12] oh it'll grow to 8 or so pages once the alts get in on the act knowledge is power.... guard it well
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:46:00 - [13] "Press Officer" you could always post with your main, rather than hide like a coward. One press release you didn't post is the one about Para' Soul region and your directors initial interest in taking residence in an outpost down there once BoB clears out ASCN -If they every do, think in terms of the LV setup with Tenerifs. Do you really think you can pull off another stunt like that ah la D2... PS check your mailing lists you possibly have a leak or you could always say that people hate you so much that they make it up. Makes no difference to me TBH.
insanebe Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance	Posted - 2006.12.10 11:49:00 - [14] Originally by: Muadeeb Ousil "Press Officer" you could always post with your main, rather than hide like a coward. One press release you didn't post is the one about Para' Soul region and your directors initial interest in taking residence in an outpost down there once BoB clears out ASCN -If they every do, think in terms of the LV setup with Tenerifs. Do you really think you can pull off another stunt like that ah la D2... PS check your mailing lists you possibly have a leak or you could always say that people hate you so much that they make it up. Makes no difference to me TBH. yes just like happened with the fix out posts ...oh wait.. knowledge is power.... guard it well
n sx The Tidemark Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.10 13:02:00 - [15] To Count TaSessine, Firstly thankyou for the delayed response to my queries as to how ISS is a threat to 0.0 existence. In regards to 'laundry' you and I both know we've discussed these points at length in private (particularly around the McFIX invasion) and got nowhere, maybe the public forums is the only place you will respond properly. Ultimately, IAC have nothing to hide in our dealings with ISS. I think you adequately confirm my concerns and the fact ISS acted in the wrong on numerous occasions and more often then not, IAC's walked away with a very sour taste in its mouth. I think and I hope you agree, given the actions over 12 months, we've been very tolerant of your policies and also your actions. I do however commend you for finally taking responsibility for these poor decisions. I also applaud you for recently ammending your charter to hopefully better assist those that increase your own business opportunities and general trade in the areas, in-line with your goal of 0.0 inhabitation. It's sad that it's taken this long, and this much bloodshed, mainly at the cost of your 'neighbours' for you to realise the faults in your previous agreement. With all of the above said, and our previous experiences in dealing with ISS it would be unwise of me to ignore your actions and only listen to your promises (our fault in the past). You have nearly 100 ISSN pilots one jump from our outpost, for an operation that I have been told has nothing to do with IAC (lies, more lies) and I know you personally have warned your own pilots to make sure all blues are on overview incase of incident. As I have said before, IAC's pilots have only been asked to exercise caution when operating near ISS and to remove assets from your stations. We dont currently have an army right up in your face, and its currently business as usual for our pilots. I recommend that you offer IAC the same courtesy.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.10 13:23:00 - [16] Originally by: n sx With all of the above said, and our previous experiences in dealing with ISS it would be unwise of me to ignore your actions and only listen to your promises (our fault in the past). You have nearly 100 ISSN pilots one jump from our outpost, for an operation that I have been told has nothing to do with IAC (lies, more lies) and I know you personally have warned your own pilots to make sure all blues are on overview incase of incident. This would be in the system where Tycho is, right? So as much 'right outside an ISS outpost' as 'one jump from your outpost'.
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:06:00 - [17] Originally by: maGz Edited by: maGz on 10/12/2006 11:58:50 Another attempt at trying to fix the already horrible ISS-reputation... Sadly this is too little and too late. Too many loose ends, and your post does nothing to tie them together. 1/10 for the effort, 10/10 for the upcoming drama. EDIT: How would ISS leadership explain the numerous ISS-pilots scouting for McFIX during the IAC-war? It seems strange that a long-term hostile (FIX) suddenly got a NAP prior to them attacking IAC, while ISS-pilots suddenly start flying around just ahead of McFIX fleets... im offended. honestly. why in the 9 hells would we use ISS to scout for us when we have perfectly good covert ops alts:) frick alone has at least half a dozen. Intelligence is life. I dont think your giving us enough credit. Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
maGz The Priory Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:12:00 - [18] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Originally by: maGz Edited by: maGz on 10/12/2006 11:58:50 Another attempt at trying to fix the already horrible ISS-reputation... Sadly this is too little and too late. Too many loose ends, and your post does nothing to tie them together. 1/10 for the effort, 10/10 for the upcoming drama. EDIT: How would ISS leadership explain the numerous ISS-pilots scouting for McFIX during the IAC-war? It seems strange that a long-term hostile (FIX) suddenly got a NAP prior to them attacking IAC, while ISS-pilots suddenly start flying around just ahead of McFIX fleets... im offended. honestly. why in the 9 hells would we use ISS to scout for us when we have perfectly good covert ops alts:) frick alone has at least half a dozen. Intelligence is life. I dont think your giving us enough credit. I don't give MC any credit as you do not deserve any... But in all honesty I do not expect a mere slave to understand - well anything ____________ The Priory Killboard
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:19:00 - [19] Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 10/12/2006 17:23:08 Originally by: n sx To Count TaSessine, [...]With all of the above said, and our previous experiences in dealing with ISS it would be unwise of me to ignore your actions and only listen to your promises (our fault in the past). You have nearly 100 ISSN pilots one jump from our outpost, for an operation that I have been told has nothing to do with IAC (lies, more lies) and I know you personally have warned your own pilots to make sure all blues are on overview incase of incident. As I have said before, IAC's pilots have only been asked to exercise caution when operating near ISS and to remove assets from your stations. We dont currently have an army right up in your face, and its currently business as usual for our pilots. I recommend that you offer IAC the same courtesy. are you seriously afraid of ISS attacking you and taking your outposts? Think things through thouroughly before posting ffs. Ok. let me explain this in modern terms. China is a capitalist country with a communist government. Their massive, burgeoning economy relies almost exclusively on the buying power of western nations, especially the US. The ISS, in this case, is china. They may have the military ABILITY to go on the offensive, but can/will not for a number of reasons. They are like china in that should they begin attacking ANYONE, attempting to siege someones stations, whatever, all public trust in ISS will be lost, and the shareholders who OWN iss outposts will be very unhappy. To say the least, the ISS economy would collapse. ISS will never attack IAC. My guess is that the farthest they will ever go is to defend ISS assets against IAC should IAC attack them. other reasons ISS will never attack a neutral/+ standings outpost, for any reason, or possibly even wont attack a -10 outpost: Manpower. ISSN, while a large corp, is a tiny pvp force compared to the pvp force able to be leveled by, say, any other 0.0 alliance. Public Outposts: ISS dont own their own outposts. Different, and some powerful, individuals in eve do. Such individuals would tear ISS apart if they began randomly attacking their neibors like "normal" alliances. Cap Fleet: Does ISS really have enough dreads to take down a large POS? Carebears: nough said. future outposts: ISS must stay true to their charter. If they do not, not only would their own corps leave them, but future IPO launches would be failures due to lack of public funding. I think the idea of IAC feeling threatened by ISSN a few jumps away from the outpost THEY just recently built there is funny as heck. The way I see it: ISS was there. IAC build an outpost next to ISS outpost, and decide they want both. IAC bluster, claim they are feeling threatened by ISS, and use it as an opportunity to get a free outpost or two. It sounds like IAC see's a squirrel and is shouting "OMG its coming right for us!" and then blowing the squirrel up with a bazooka. Theres no problem with attacking your neibors. thats part of EVE. just dont try and pretend you have the moral highground:-p as an outsider looking in, with great respect for both IAC (after our contract against them) and ISS (after working for them), it looks like you two really need to sit down, call "re-do!", and go at it it with a fresh, friendship-driven face. or else IAC need to just call a spade a spade:) I just hope i have enough popcorn to watch this play out! Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
FowlPlayChiken Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:26:00 - [20] Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 10/12/2006 17:28:29 Originally by: maGz Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Originally by: maGz Edited by: maGz on 10/12/2006 11:58:50 Another attempt at trying to fix the already horrible ISS-reputation... Sadly this is too little and too late. Too many loose ends, and your post does nothing to tie them together. 1/10 for the effort, 10/10 for the upcoming drama. EDIT: How would ISS leadership explain the numerous ISS-pilots scouting for McFIX during the IAC-war? It seems strange that a long-term hostile (FIX) suddenly got a NAP prior to them attacking IAC, while ISS-pilots suddenly start flying around just ahead of McFIX fleets... im offended. honestly. why in the 9 hells would we use ISS to scout for us when we have perfectly good covert ops alts:) frick alone has at least half a dozen. Intelligence is life. I dont think your giving us enough credit. I don't give MC any credit as you do not deserve any... But in all honesty I do not expect a mere slave to understand - well anything out of curiosity...all this bable has exactly...what? to do with the fact that we have covert ops pilots in the MC? what am I not understanding. please, enlighten me. Are my covert ops actually figmemts of my imagination? perhaps I should lay off the Grolsh. Am I somehow mistaken in my statements of fact? do convo me and explain in detail. I await breathless with anticipation. BAWK p.s. ive said all that needs saying. wont be posting in this thread again. g'day, sirrah! may you find much chicken love Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler

Butter Dog The Dead Miners Society	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:29:00 - [21] Edited by: Butter Dog on 10/12/2006 17:30:46 Originally by: n sx for an operation that I have been told has nothing to do with IAC (lies, more lies) Check the map. ISS deployed a new outpost recently (today I think). Now, call me intiuitive, but I would hazard a wild guess that is what those pilots relocated for. Believe it or not, the world doesnt revolve around IAC. You are a warmonger, and a rather poor one at that. We can see through it.
Firane Band of Builders Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:32:00 - [22] Originally by: Muadeeb Ousil Why not, i gather they are still hostile to ISS according to a post in another thread yet, 1 night before the McFix attack your Director Team grant docking rights to Fix at the ISS stations, an Alliance Hostile always in the past and still Hostile at the moment to ISS. It would take a person living in the south to be able to tell if we are hostile to ISS at the moment would it not? Looks on overview Doesn't see ISS ----------
Muadeeb Ousil Minmatar Office linebackers Center for Disease Creation	Posted - 2006.12.10 17:55:00 - [23] Ammusing to see BOB's play things come out to defend ISS, Guess you guys really are in bed together...
The Alien Primary Targets	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:22:00 - [24] Edited by: The Alien on 10/12/2006 18:22:44
Avernus Gallente Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2006.12.10 18:30:00 - [25] I may as well add my 2 cents in an attempt to clear the air; there seems to be some question as to how FIX managed to get standings with ISS just prior to the Prohibition campaign. It's very simple. I contacted them, and asked for standings. I told them that ISS isn't really a target of interest for FIX (and they aren't), and that we have no reason to be shooting at them. In return for standings, we ofc don't shoot at ISS pilots. ISS is a business interest... not getting shot at, is good business. Obviously, I didn't tell ISS that FIX was about to embark on a bit of fun with MC against IAC. To the best of my knowledge, there has only been one incident since we've gone blue to ISS. The pilot in question was kicked from corp and FIX. FIX will continue to maintain positive standings towards ISS. There is no cloak and dagger going on here, it's all pretty straight forward standard stuff. No ISS pilots provided intel to FIX or MC; there is nothing in our agreement that goes beyond a standard NAP. Blog
Press Officer Leaked Memo's	Posted - 2006.12.10 19:24:00 - [26] Totally agree with Fowl .... The IAC build an Outpost next to a "Public" ISS Outpost and then hatch a dirty smear campaign and plan to attack the ISS due to them suddenly "feeling scared" ....... rather pathetic and you, Priory, Rev and the rest of the "wannab's" need to think of something more creative ... Back down from you "attack plan" or you going to look silly when you lose everything and gain nothing..... do you really feel the Eve community is going to standby and do nothing while you try to scam an outpost for free.
Silvestri FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2006.12.10 19:37:00 - [27] Originally by: FowlPlayChiken Edited by: FowlPlayChiken on 10/12/2006 17:23:08 Originally by: n sx To Count TaSessine, [...]With all of the above said, and our previous experiences in dealing with ISS it would be unwise of me to ignore your actions and only listen to your promises (our fault in the past). You have nearly 100 ISSN pilots one jump from our outpost, for an operation that I have been told has nothing to do with IAC (lies, more lies) and I know you personally have warned your own pilots to make sure all blues are on overview incase of incident. As I have said before, IAC's pilots have only been asked to exercise caution when operating near ISS and to remove assets from your stations. We dont currently have an army right up in your face, and its currently business as usual for our pilots. I recommend that you offer IAC the same courtesy. are you seriously afraid of ISS attacking you and taking your outposts? Think things through thouroughly before posting ffs. Ok. let me explain this in modern terms. China is a capitalist country with a communist government. Their massive, burgeoning economy relies almost exclusively on the buying power of western nations, especially the US. The ISS, in this case, is china. They may have the military ABILITY to go on the offensive, but can/will not for a number of reasons. They are like china in that should they begin attacking ANYONE, attempting to siege someones stations, whatever, all public trust in ISS will be lost, and the shareholders who OWN iss outposts will be very unhappy. To say the least, the ISS economy would collapse. ISS will never attack IAC. My guess is that the farthest they will ever go is to defend ISS assets against IAC should IAC attack them. other reasons ISS will never attack a neutral/+ standings outpost, for any reason, or possibly even wont attack a -10 outpost: Manpower. ISSN, while a large corp, is a tiny pvp force compared to the pvp force able to be leveled by, say, any other 0.0 alliance. Public Outposts: ISS dont own their own outposts. Different, and some powerful, individuals in eve do. Such individuals would tear ISS apart if they began randomly attacking their neibors like "normal" alliances. Cap Fleet: Does ISS really have enough dreads to take down a large POS? Carebears: nough said. future outposts: ISS must stay true to their charter. If they do not, not only would their own corps leave them, but future IPO launches would be failures due to lack of public funding. I think the idea of IAC feeling threatened by ISSN a few jumps away from the outpost THEY just recently built there is funny as heck. The way I see it: ISS was there. IAC build an outpost next to ISS outpost, and decide they want both. IAC bluster, claim they are feeling threatened by ISS, and use it as an opportunity to get a free outpost or two. It sounds like IAC see's a squirrel and is shouting "OMG its coming right for us!" and then blowing the squirrel up with a bazooka. Theres no problem with attacking your neibors. thats part of EVE. just dont try and pretend you have the moral highground:-p as an outsider looking in, with great respect for both IAC (after our contract against them) and ISS (after working for them), it looks like you two really need to sit down, call "re-do!", and go at it it with a fresh, friendship-driven face. or else IAC need to just call a spade a spade:) I just hope i have enough popcorn to watch this play out! And MC complains about people jumping into posts....you're lame. Anywho, to Count....personally, love the post. Hope we all stay friends...
Dammar Ephorate	Posted - 2006.12.10 20:28:00 - [28] Just wanted to say that while I couldn't be bothered to read most of this thread, the entertainment value in the first post was substantial. I remember being in a certain alliance that lived in the constellation now owned by IAC (jzv). I Remember how IAC worked with ISS(one of the first major incidents questioning ISS neutrality..) and how much forum whoring it took to get ISS(n) off our backs so we could simply have less 'groups' of people shooting at our, again, smaller alliance which was purely in defence mode at that time. I guess it's all fun and games untill someone wets the bed. Also I find it highly amusing how the faces everyone seems to associate with 'IAC' these days...are the same people who were helping that aforementioned small alliance fight IAC those many moons ago. UMCON, it's too bad things worked out the way they did back then. If you guys were handed the reins instead of what actually happened, the landscape would possibly look a bit different in catch. Then again, maybe not. Anyway, just some stuff I felt like saying heh, carry on fhoraging.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:12:00 - [29] Aww crap, I go to sleep and the thread gets trolled by the same group of people every ISS thread get stroleld by. For christ sake, at least make constructive comments or discussion. It's gotten to the point where every time the ISS is mentioned in a thread, I see immature posts by Verone and usually every single active member of The Priory. And no, posting pictures of someone beating a horse and making baseless claims without even attempting to back them up is not constructive. I'll address a few points here, sorry that I can't quote the questons or people who brought each up, but here goes: Alt Scouting and the passing of intel The ISS charter forbids the passing of intel, including scouting for someone, to non-iss entities. Management do not condone actions that violate the charter (I really shouldn't need to point that out, it should be obvious) and if a pilot is doing that, report them to ISS Management. If something doesn't get sorted out, it's almost certainly because nobody reported it. That said, it is just as easy for someone to join any major alliance by joining one of its member corps as it is for someone to join an ISS member corp. If, and it's entirely possible that it could happen, an ISS pilot WERE scouting for another entity, it's also possible for that pilot to have been planted in the alliance specifically for that purpose. Therefore, the entire alliance cannot be held accountable for the immediate action of the individual ISS pilots, only for their continued action after that action is adequately reported it to ISS Management. And the same goes for EVERY SINGLE major alliance, if the alliance don't condone something and a member does it, the member is in the wrong, not the alliance. If you report a pilot for a charter violation such as passing intel, with adequate proof of course, they will be disciplined almost assuredly by removal from the alliance within the week. If they aren't removed from their corp, their corp will be removed from the alliance. And no, seeing an ISS pilot jump into a system ahead of a hostile fleet is not proof of scouting - it's proof of nothing more than that ISS pilots fly ships in space and anyone with a level head on their shoulders can see that. Now if you have fraps of it happening on a few separate occasions, that's solid evidence. Originally by: n sx for an operation that I have been told has nothing to do with IAC (lies, more lies) As ButterDog hinted at, before downtime we deployed the outpost LV Serenity, under contract with LV. This is what the huge ISS blob was for and it should be dispersed now that the outpost is secure. As has been said NUMEROUS times and is made clear by the ISS Charter, we will only amass forces for defensive operations in the best interests of the public outposts, on behalf of the shareholders that have stake in them. If you think anything other than that is going on, please contact a member of ISS Management to disuss it. We have made mistakes in the past, and we're trying to prevent them happening again The phrase "water under the bridge" clings to me right now. Yes, ISS have made a lot of mistakes in the past. So has every major alliance, we're not special and we're not ebil for making mistakes. Hanging IAC out to dry during the CC escapade all those months ago was the start of it and I'm personally pleased to see an official admittance that it was a mistake and an apology from Count TaSessine for doing it. We know we were wrong, we've admitted that in hindsight some decisions were bad, we've apologised AND we've actively sought to prevent similar situations occuring with the new charter etc. The charter should prevent old errors from occuring, maybe give it a chance? The ball in in IAC's court. We have plenty of common enemies, we have the same goals for the areas of space we inhabit and absolutely no reason to make enemies of each other. Can't we work together? More on this in a few minutes... Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Nyphur Pillowsoft Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2006.12.10 21:39:00 - [30] Standings and docking rights Another major point of contention has been the standings issues, regarding docking access in the ISS outposts. There are a few misconceptions to clear up. First, alliance standings and docking rights aren't linked at all in any way. I wish they were but they aren't. Docking access can't be set to alliances, it's set as a corp-to-corp standings change between the outpost owning corp and there are only so many slots in the standings list, a lot of which are taken up in day to day runnings of the outpost for jump clone standings and ISS corps that now get free docking rights and need standings set appropriately. Second, someone docking in an ISS outpost (though this should be painfully clear to anyone with some sense) does not inferr any kind of relationship with the ISS. The ISS outposts are all public, and for clarification here is the list of ISS outposts: "ISS Cassini", "ISS Borealis", "ISS Consido", "ISS Fabrica", "ISS Tycho", "ISS Marginis". The other two "LV Calico" and now "LV Serenity", deployed this morning, are not ISS outposts, those are LV outposts that we manage for them and use under a space rental contract (the kind we're open to with any other alliance if it's a good deal). The ISS outposts allow docking to anyone who is not SPECIFICALLY banned from docking, and the standings are set per outpost or group of outposts. I'm regonal coordinator for Providence, so I can tell you now that standings for Consido and Fabrica are set by ISS Providence corp as a set. Standings for Marginis and Tycho I believe are set by another corp as a group and Borealis and Cassini I'm not sure about as I live in the south and those are in the north. In order for an alliance to have docking rights revolked across the board, we'd need a list of ALL of their member corps and we'd have to manually set standings to each one of them. Once again, I WISH we could set it to use alliance standings but the outpost mechanics don't offer that option. Finally, there were issues regarding people using the outposts to stage attacks on nearby alliance's assets without risking their own. If you take a peek at the charter, you'll notice this is now prohibited by the following passage: " -- If an entity uses the outpost as a staging area to wage war, they may have their docking rights removed for the duration of the war." If someone is attacking you near an ISS outpost, it's a simple matter to evemail the regional coordinator for that area and ask that they have docking rights revolked. According to the new charter, we pretty much can't refuse. It'd be annoying and fiddly to set the whole of FIX to being unable to dock and would require a full corp list but we'd do it because it says it in the charter. Also see this passage: " - ISS allow pirates and fleets to dock but will respond to concerns of neighbours on docking rights." This pretty much says that if Ushra Kahn, IAC, Sylph Alliance, CVA and the others living around the south don't want their enemies to be able to dock at ISS outposts in Providence and Catch, we'll do it. In an effort to protect relations with our neighbours, which is a damn sight more important to the security of the outposts than profits, we'll work with our friendly neighbours to stop all of our hostiles docking, even ones that are neutral to us. If they don't want peace with our friendly neighbours, they have forfeited their rights to use our outposts. I don't know about everyone else but I want to see ISS being a strong asset to our friendly neighbours, if they will let us. **While I don't officially represent the alliance (as technically by the new charter only Count TaSessine can do that), I have its best interests at heart, I am part of the management team and I have permission to post on the forum to address questions and concerns that arise. For official diplomatic Contact and policy decisions not covered by the charter, contact Count TaSessine (drop him an evemail). Eve-Tanking.com - For tanking spreadsheet and resources.

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