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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Suitonia
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
615
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:10:57 -
[91] - Quote
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:How does this speed cap of 4000m/s stop interceptors from just offlining the module and gong full speed again? They've always been offline the module to gain their mobility and speed back so I don't see how this is any different
Offlining the Entosis doesn't speed you up.... you always kept the speed penalty........
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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Suitonia
Genos Occidere Warlords of the Deep
615
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:11:43 -
[92] - Quote
Oddsodz wrote:Speed limit on ships fitted Entosis links is WRONG.
A better way to deal with this is to just make the Entosis link module only fittable on destroyer class ships and above. So simple and yet fixes all the issues of the so called troll sepctor.
The funny thing is Troll Ceptors aren't the most broken thing, it's 500mn Strategic Cruisers
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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oodell
Thunderwaffe Goonswarm Federation
28
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:13:30 -
[93] - Quote
Oddsodz wrote:Speed limit on ships fitted Entosis links is WRONG.
A better way to deal with this is to just make the Entosis link module only fittable on destroyer class ships and above. So simple and yet fixes all the issues of the so called troll sepctor.
There are legitimate use cases for a frigate-sized ship which is also mobile.
Harpyfleet is a strategic doctrine used by more than one alliance for strategic fights over sov. There's no reason why a harpy shouldn't be able to entosis during a fight. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2096
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:15:11 -
[94] - Quote
Oddsodz wrote:Speed limit on ships fitted Entosis links is WRONG.
A better way to deal with this is to just make the Entosis link module only fittable on destroyer class ships and above. So simple and yet fixes all the issues of the so called troll sepctor.
not really if you want to go in a fleet of t3d you should be able to...
but if you want to go in with one ship that is where you should have a good chance of being caught.
That is why i have proposed making capture structures, outposts, ihubs and tcu have a chance to use a 75km scram and web.
This will make it so if a trollceptor tries to attack my outpost i simply undock in a insta thrasher and pop him.
Also with this mechanic and without looking at whats going to happen to capitals i would like to see the return of the option for the structure grind once you pass the first reinfoce timer.
basically you have to e-link the outpost or tcu or ihub and it goes into reinfoce mode. when it comes out you have to capture the capture stuctures in the constalation and that will then cause the second timer which will deactivate the shields...
since there are no shields left you can now shoot the structure... but at the same time there will still be caputre events... so you have to choose try and grind the structure or capture the annoms... or try both...
that way you can have a b-r like fight again.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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Sophie Elongur
Hooded Underworld Guys Northern Coalition.
0
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:16:35 -
[95] - Quote
Tentative steps in the right direction...
Stop listening to high and low sec pubbies who know nothing about null and start listening to nullsec players who live out here. |
Borachon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
56
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:24:51 -
[96] - Quote
A comment and a clarification:
- I really appreciate the commitment to keep working on this; even if I'm skeptical of this approach, that statement alone was worth the full price of admission of the post. Thanks.
- How do webs interact with the speed limit? Say, for example, an "attacker" starts with a ship that normally would have gone 8 km/s; they fit an entosis link on it, and it's speed is capped to 4 km/s. It's entosising a TCU, and a Huginn with a fed navy web lands and applies a 50km 60% web to it. Does its speed drop to 3200 m/s (8km/s * 40%) or 1600 m/s (4km/s * 40%)?
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5273
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:30:09 -
[97] - Quote
Well, I'm surprised.
Though I didn't agree entirely with all the feedback, even I could see what the majority wanted.
This wasn't it. In fact, most of these changes were not suggested by anybody in any thread I'm aware of.
It also still doesn't address:
CCP Fozzie wrote:Goal #1: As much as possible, ensure that the process of fighting over a star system is enjoyable and fascinating for all the players involved |
Reagalan
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
110
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:31:58 -
[98] - Quote
I'm saying this as nicely as possible. Fozziesov is a broken and fundamentally flawed system. No amount of tweaking will ever make it work as well as either of the two previous sov systems.
Fozziesov is not engaging for the average fleet member, who has to wait around while the magical sov hackers do all the work. Under Dominion sov, your average fleet member got to contribute via DPS, and at least got killmails at the end.
Fozziesov is not fun for a sov defender, who has to race to defend buffer zones from entities who have no intention of actually taking your space, or holding it, or even using it.
It's not fun to chase interceptors around. This has also been a problem as far back as since interceptors recieved bubble immunty which was also one of the worst design decisions in the history of Eve.
Fozziesov lacks permanence. Under Dominion sov, losing a system was potentially, for all intents and purposes, permanent. It could potentially fall into a timezone from which you would never be able to take it back. Under Fozziesov, you can lose systems and take them back later. Losing your space therefore has far less value. There is less on the line.
Since losing space has less value, fewer people give a **** about their space. This is readily apparent in the mass exodus from nullsec.
Fozziesov discourages fighting because it does not force an entity to control a grid in order to win an objective. Ironically, this was one of the stated goals of the system. It discourages fighting because there is no need to commit anything more to win an objective than a single sovhacker.
Any fleet that splits itself to cover multiple nodes, and protect multiple sovhackers, will fall prey to a fleet that maintains coherency, and rolls as one large group winning multiple small fights. It's therefore in the best interest of a defender to not engage, to retain a "fleet-in-being" to discourage an attacker from splitting up. By preventing an attacker from splitting up, he can therefore maximize the tedium on part of the attackers.
Dominion sov, at least, forced both the attacker and defender to commit to a grid to fight over an objective, no matter how adamant the defending FC was at attempting to blueball the attackers. There was always a final timer, and the defender must show up for it in force, or lose.
Fozziesov's focus on the "small entities" detracts from the immense amount of organization that has gone into the maintenance of large space empires. The idea that small, disorganized entities should have an easier time defending their space, or advantages when attacking someone else's, is contrary to the concept of "effort vs reward".
This blind focus on the "small entities" has also directly lead to far fewer large fights in Nullsec, and indeed, the need for them. Large fights, large wars, large empires, and large fleets, have always been far greater content producers than small gangs, or "small entities".
Large fleets make stragglers, targets for small gangs to catch, and reasons for industrialists to build things.
Large wars involve thousands of players, given them reasons to log in, reasons to fight, and reasons for large battles involving mass destruction of ships to occur.
Large empires drive a metagame that is not found in any other game in the world, and provide organizations and structures which unite large numbers of players and provide a support network for new ones, and causes and reasons for older ones to log in.
Eve's metagame has been the number one driver of content for the game. The metagame produces headlines, the metagame produces new players.
Fozziesov, and the focus on "small entities", aims to systematically destroy all of these, and, by extension, destroys a large part of why we play Eve at all.
Despite the focus on "small entities", Fozziesov heavily favors large entities with large numbers of people who are capable of providing extra ships to fit sovlasers to, and to rat and keep up ADMs.
The ADMs of Fozziesov aim to restrict the size of a space empire on the concept of "occupancy sov". In hindsight, "occupancy sov" was a misguided and flawed concept. The size of a space empire should not be limited to the amount of space it can utilize, but by the military pressure exerted by the other players and their space empires.
Entosis Links, the cornerstone of Fozziesov, are a major contributor to the flaws of Fozziesov, and are also a fundamentally flawed concept that should never have been implemented.
The idea of a "magical space laser" that determines whose flag is planted in space is, even on it's face, a laughable concept. We dumped millions of skillpoints into combat skills for a reason.
Citadels, which so-far look like a good re-work of POS/Stations, are greatly hamstrung in their potential because of their reliance on Entosis Link mechanics.
The issue of "trollceptors" is a direct result of Entosis Links. The EHP grind of Dominion sov, and of POS, was an inherent inhibitor of "troll" tactics. Higher DPS ships inherently cost more money. EHP grinds were, by design, inherently conducive to risk-reward concepts. To effect a change in sov, you needed to commit.
This commitment was a major driver of conflict. When a sov war occured, it was a big deal.
EHP grinds may not has been that much fun, but that wasn't the point. Eve was never a "fun" game. Eve inherently is incapable of being a "fun" game. Designing Eve to compete vs other video games is a futile effort, as other games that are designed to be "fun" games will easily outcompete Eve on fun.
Eve has always been the "serious business" game. For all the tedium of Dominion sov, thousands upon thousands of us were willing to harden the **** up and deal with it, because it had permanence, because it had a high bar.
The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system. |
Chessur
Mining Industry Exile Foundation Warlords of the Deep
589
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:35:25 -
[99] - Quote
I like the changes so far- 4K/S seems nice.
Any thoughts on making Ihubs / TCUs dead space? Or having a dead space deployable? |
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross Eternal Pretorian Alliance
157
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:37:54 -
[100] - Quote
Holy wall of text batman!
(he's right though) |
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Allawa Phantom
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:38:20 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Hire this guy
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Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
836
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:39:18 -
[102] - Quote
I love it. CCP is putting out the fire with petrol.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
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Nevil Kincade
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
9
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:39:45 -
[103] - Quote
NO FOZZY !
NO ! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
You are being told a fairy tale! We have taken a couple of systems (and lost them again) but never due to a single 'trolling' ship. This stuff just doesnt happen in reality against an organized alliance/coalition. It always involved fending of ewar and controlling access to the system. Perhaps stalling for time to get the entosis done but ultimately because the defenders CAME IN TOO LATE. And whos fault is that ?
I cant believe you are giving into this whining of people who just DONT WANT TO PVP. You should see the reality of 'Entosis Trolling' with your own eyes before you make such decisions. The defender comes in, jams the Entosis ship and your warm-up cylce goes to **** wasting you 20 minutes. And if you fit a ship to counter that kitsune or falcon by outrunning it they scream "Unfair! Unfair! Fozzy nerf it pleeeease !!!"
What is this bullshit ? Sov defence by crying for nerfs ? And you play along ???
Entosis links seriously need e-war immunity or be able to keep running without a lock-on !
What do you think how many successfull jams a falcon can get off during the warm-up cycle, 20, 200 ? Because thats the amount of Entosis ships you will need in the future to capture a TCU against a defender who is actually on the ball. And what if you field 20 ECM ships or 100 ? That gets us to a number the server cant even handle.
And how dare those that own sov to define that kiting is not a proper strategy to fight over a system ? They could easily have put on their OWN ENTOSIS onto the TCU and stopped the attackers progress. If they were TRULY holding the field that shouldnt be a problem right ? Our 9k m/s Entosis ships never could stay on grid with an actual force arriving by the way. Again: Fozzy bro is believing a fairytale.
What was happening the last few weeks was EXACTLY what Aegis Sov was meant to do: Make power blocs realize they cant occupy all the space themselves. They were supposed to feel the pain of an empire overstretch and make a tough call about what space is worth the effort.
THEY WERE MEANT TO LOOSE SPACE ! And not only the part they choose to. Now they are starting to loose their face in being outplayed and loosing Sov so they throw all their political power at CCP. Of course on the cost of the entire player base.
Please grow a spine you lush sack of potatoe meal ... im so ******* disappointed, you were the last hope for content and conflict in Eve.
P.S. Aegis Sov has made Pure Blind a content garden of even. Sure the Sov holders don't like to get slaughtered in skirmishes now that they are forced upon them but the content generation part of the new system is absolutely working.
Congratz on that part CCP! Please don't give up. All the criticism is purely political and certainly not about fun and explosion. |
Allawa Phantom
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:43:05 -
[104] - Quote
I Smell MOA Tears
Its really ironic how the entities who say this system is brilliant is the trolls who run around and entosis stuff then run at the first sight of danger |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
2096
|
Posted - 2015.08.19 00:46:24 -
[105] - Quote
Reagalan wrote:I'm saying this as nicely as possible. Fozziesov is a broken and fundamentally flawed system. No amount of tweaking will ever make it work as well as either of the two previous sov systems.
The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system.
I disagree. AFAIK one of the main reasons you guys won b-r was that you were able to lock down adjacent systems keeping out capital reinforcements.
ill say it again make fozziesov a mesh between structure and elink grind.
make it so you use the elink to reinforce the 1st time then you have to use elinks for the 1st capture event.
this then would cause the second reinforce which would then disable the shields and allow the structure to be shoot at.
so now you can put your capitals to work and attack the structure...
but even though the structure is vulnerable you can also choose to capture the annoms spread throughout the consultation.
So no you have a b-r type situation where you have your capital fight over the structure and then a bunch of sub cap fights over the capture annoms.
There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people...
CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.
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5pitf1re
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:47:45 -
[106] - Quote
Nevil Kincade wrote:NO FOZZY !
NO ! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
~some words~
It's funny how an entity whose sole purpose for years was and still is, to try to harass and troll a much larger entity is basically the only entity really supporting fozziesov. |
Nevil Kincade
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
9
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:47:48 -
[107] - Quote
Allawa Phantom wrote:I Smell MOA Tears
Its really ironic how the entities who say this system is brilliant is the trolls who run around and entosis stuff then run at the first sight of danger
We are not trolls, we fight CFC every day with great success and you know it. It's bad enough that the blob of garbage forces it's pvp style on so many players but the political bullshit going even into game design is a danger to Eve as a product. |
Tardvark McDoof
Enlightened Industries Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:50:25 -
[108] - Quote
Nevil Kincade wrote:NO FOZZY !
NO ! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
You are being told a fairy tale! We have taken a couple of systems (and lost them again) but never due to a single 'trolling' ship.
Strange, I must've imagined running into all those Interceptors burning off-grid in Pure Blind last night then.
At any rate, none of the 'fixes' really solve any of the complaints about the system. A's for Effort don't really work outside of grade school, you need to revisit your feedback and take it back to the drawing board CCP. |
Rashasha Imshee
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:51:06 -
[109] - Quote
Reagalan wrote:Won't do jack **** to a system that is fundamentally and critically flawed and unsalvageable.
Until you get off of this "small gang" and "local conflict" soapbox the decline of Eve will continue. We didn't sign up for small gang impermanent bullshit and we detest your attempts to force this playstyle upon us.
I love the tears from the biggest trolls in the game, who weaponized boredom, complaining about getting trolled. When you leave, ccan I have your stuff?
Good job Fozzie, and Team Five-O. |
My Lap
University of Caille Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:51:14 -
[110] - Quote
Reagalan wrote:I'm saying this as nicely as possible. Fozziesov is a broken and fundamentally flawed system. No amount of tweaking will ever make it work as well as either of the two previous sov systems.
...
The only solution to the problems of Fozziesov is to scrap the whole thing, return to Dominion sov, and iterate upon a proven system.
Truer words are seldom spoken as this. I doubt Fozzie will take the time to comment on this but it would be nice. |
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5pitf1re
4S Corporation Goonswarm Federation
34
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:51:44 -
[111] - Quote
Nevil Kincade wrote:Allawa Phantom wrote:I Smell MOA Tears
Its really ironic how the entities who say this system is brilliant is the trolls who run around and entosis stuff then run at the first sight of danger We are not trolls, we fight CFC every day with great success and you know it. It's bad enough that the blob of garbage forces it's pvp style on so many players but the political bullshit going even into game design is a danger to Eve as a product.
Yep, that's why numbers started dwindling at a disturbing rate ever since fozziesov hit TQ. It must be because it is such a great success and of course all we want is to destroy the game by having the cause of EVE's dwindling numbers reverted.
Hang on, I'm confused now ... |
its my cyno
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2015.08.19 00:56:06 -
[112] - Quote
Nevil Kincade wrote:Allawa Phantom wrote:I Smell MOA Tears
Its really ironic how the entities who say this system is brilliant is the trolls who run around and entosis stuff then run at the first sight of danger We are not trolls, we fight CFC every day with great success and you know it. It's bad enough that the blob of garbage forces it's pvp style on so many players but the political bullshit going even into game design is a danger to Eve as a product.
You mean you kill a bunch of ratters.
we know you know you aren't serious about sov other then to troll it.
Why not make it risk adverse if you are serious. Make it you have to pay1 bil x the adm level of the system. That way it will stop the trolls and make people like you that are serious about sov (yeah right) worth it. You win the isk is yours back you lose the isk goes to the sov holder. Lets see your success rate then |
Var D'ovoli
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2015.08.19 01:00:40 -
[113] - Quote
According to this (see the bottom graph) there was more newborn characters created than ever before in eve just a few days after the B-R5RB Battle. The scale of the battle was great advertisement for the game as it reached major news networks. People that I work with that have no interest in the game were talking about it. It's really too bad that that kind of attention will never be directed at eve again. |
Galphii
Oberon Incorporated Get Off My Lawn
325
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Posted - 2015.08.19 01:01:03 -
[114] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote: ill say it again make fozziesov a mesh between structure and elink grind.
make it so you use the elink to reinforce the 1st time then you have to use elinks for the 1st capture event.
this then would cause the second reinforce which would then disable the shields and allow the structure to be shoot at.
so now you can put your capitals to work and attack the structure...
but even though the structure is vulnerable you can also choose to capture the annoms spread throughout the consultation.
This would be my preference - the freedom to choose how to capture and defend sov. Small gangs can go the anom route while others who choose do to so can still use the grunt of their big ships. The biggest problem with domsov was capital imbalances, but instead of addressing them a new system was built to exclude them entirely.
Rebalance caps, depower supercaps and allow for this blend of styles in aegis sov.
"Wow, that internet argument completely changed my fundamental belief system," said no one, ever.
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Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
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Posted - 2015.08.19 01:02:57 -
[115] - Quote
Nevil Kincade wrote:Allawa Phantom wrote:I Smell MOA Tears
Its really ironic how the entities who say this system is brilliant is the trolls who run around and entosis stuff then run at the first sight of danger We are not trolls, we fight CFC every day with great success and you know it. It's bad enough that the blob of garbage forces it's pvp style on so many players but the political bullshit going even into game design is a danger to Eve as a product.
You what mate?
We all have read Gen Eve's and MASSADEATH's alliance wide evemails, advising line members to avoid fighting while trolling with Entosis links. And we have not termed this trolling, it is your FCs that named it so and ordered you to avoid fights at all costs.
You are just embarrassing yourself with the fairy tale that is your forum post.
Now, no PvP in their right mind believes your inner propaganda about how MoA is proficient at PvP. If you notice, the reaction such claims have been getting in every community medium is mockery of MoA.
So, it is in your best interests to save yourself further embarrassment under this thread. |
Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2268
|
Posted - 2015.08.19 01:08:04 -
[116] - Quote
Old farts still scared of 1v1s in small ships.
Bitter vets still think the once a year fight in 10% TiDi is the what people really want.
The vocal minority and their failed old ways still think they speak for the silent majority.
~ Professional Forum Alt -á~
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Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
842
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Posted - 2015.08.19 01:08:13 -
[117] - Quote
Nevil Kincade wrote:NO FOZZY !
NO ! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
You are being told a fairy tale! We have taken a couple of systems (and lost them again) but never due to a single 'trolling' ship. Hmm, I don't see any of your Ihubs in those systems. Just a pretty flag that doesn't mean you actually control those systems.
"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves."
The Trial - Franz Kafka-á
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Baku Saissore
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
1
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Posted - 2015.08.19 01:08:26 -
[118] - Quote
i cant believe the whining is still continuing!! You got what you wanted - f1 blobs are back!! with defense multipliers down to 24 minutes max , an attacking fleet doesn't have to worry too much about defenders - just bring a blob.
in particularly whats annoying is the whining re 4k speed limit. Have you never heard of a ceptor? .... you lazy F1 monkeys... |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
333
|
Posted - 2015.08.19 01:12:38 -
[119] - Quote
Baku Saissore wrote:i cant believe the whining is still continuing!! You got what you wanted - f1 blobs are back!! with defense multipliers down to 24 minutes max , an attacking fleet doesn't have to worry too much about defenders - just bring a blob.
in particularly whats annoying is the whining re 4k speed limit. Have you never heard of a ceptor? .... you lazy F1 monkeys...
Well, maybe if you actually played this game under sov scenario related PvP fights instead of struggling with your keyboard to spell English words out correctly here, you would have already known that the 4000 m/s is more than enough in any ship equipped with an Entosis link to simply align away from the sov module the moment a hostile pops up in local to break grid (or burn such an amount of distance from the sov structure that any attempt to catch will be futile) and reach complete safety.
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Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
384
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Posted - 2015.08.19 01:12:56 -
[120] - Quote
Nevil Kincade wrote:[quote=Allawa Phantom] ... the political bullshit going even into game design is a danger to Eve as a product.
/sign |
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