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Arbitos
GamCorp Almost Broken
45
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Posted - 2015.08.22 11:57:49 -
[151] - Quote
Snowmann wrote:Note: Reset all skills may be fine, but not skill points.
The only comment in this thread that actually made me think for a moment.
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AARC
The Dutch East India Company Fidelas Constans
13
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Posted - 2015.08.22 11:58:41 -
[152] - Quote
Funny, you guys are getting stomped to hell and back, i.e. losing the fight. And now you are whining about a full server wide reset? |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
406
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Posted - 2015.08.22 16:27:00 -
[153] - Quote
AARC wrote:Funny, you guys are getting stomped to hell and back, i.e. losing the fight. And now you are whining about a full server wide reset?
Surprisingly interesting insight into mindset. After the alliance headshot on Cascade Imminent, I was for a short while in a what is the point mindset. I mean there was a group of power players that were for all intents and purpose, invincible. The power projection was just too great. I held it not against those guys. I mean they worked hard to build up to what they had and were playing appropriately.
TEST, respect on that headshot.
But at the same time, it was limiting gameplay. Hence the revitalization of how sov works. It angered many people, but now Nullsec is able to support a larger density and over time, it can be expected to increase vitality and the dynamics. In addition. The changes that make mobile front lines instead of just a hotdrop sniping enhances small alliance abilities and what I hope for, actually bring in a necessity for neutral parties. That is a discussion for another topic.
So point being? Reset, no. But addressing why there is a (small) call for a reset? Yes. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6817
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Posted - 2015.08.22 16:34:28 -
[154] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote: I mean there was a group of power players that were for all intents and purpose, invincible. The power projection was just too great. I held it not against those guys. I mean they worked hard to build up to what they had and were playing appropriately. Project some interceptors and troll them
Every change leaves the badguys just about to fall.
We just need more coalitions to exist to destroy them, more legions to be paid off, more lasersov, more something!!
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
406
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Posted - 2015.08.22 16:54:32 -
[155] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Project some interceptors and troll them
Not my play style. That goes to other topics as well. Limited alternatives mean limited player base. Sides, back then I was also trolling goon space, as well as before and after. My isk came from exploration, my systems of choice were goon ones. I loved it when a big wack of ships would show up trying to find me, and then rant on forums of AFK cloaker. Or even more, when ratters would dock up.
But that was a side effect of what I was doing. The interceptor run and kite and disrupt would be fun at first, but very boing quite quickly. Sides, if they wanted the system, what would they care about an interceptor buzzing about in a ratting system during a CTA?
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Kiryen O'Bannon
Silver Guardians Fidelas Constans
229
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Posted - 2015.08.22 18:53:28 -
[156] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:I think there is a simularity between people who believe a reset will 'help' them (or the situation in general) and things like Fozzie sov (that's supposed to "open up" opportunities for the previously disenfranchised "small guy") and other changes CCP has made or wanted to make. Some people have the idea that "I want to do things, but I can't because of this unfairness, if only this injustice didn't exist, I would shine!" lol. What really happens is that when you remove all these 'barriers' you find the same people who succeeded in the past end up succeeding again (because success is a part of who they are and how they think) and the people who failed in the past (and blamed it on the barriers) keep failing. This is why CCPs attempts to "open up the game" have failed, the kind of person who will continue to play EVE past the trial would have continued under almost any circumstances, people who quit would have quit anyway. I actually saw this happen in real life, a guy working for my organization claimed that a few policies we had were all that was holding him back. So he ends up working for another organization that doesn't have the same restrictions....and still hasn't made any progress (and is now blaming it on a new set of conditions...conditions that didn't exist in the original organization lol). BTW, In the exact same time frame I've been promoted twice, because the things that guy thought were barriers , weren't The environment and circumstances matter sure, but at the end of the day, whether one experiences success or failure is fundamentally internal, not external. A Reset of EVE Online would just be confirmation of the fact that some people suck at gaming and others don't. We already know this lol.
The mentality you're describing is a major problem in real life; half the political spectrum is devoted to removing "barriers" to people's success, then inventing new barriers to remove in order to keep the gravy train going.
In real life people at least have the excuse that there's been plenty of real injustice in the world - EVE is a game. If it's unjust and unfair, get better or quit. Major "rock in the pond changes" because ~reasons~ are a terrible idea, but people with no critical thinking or analysis skills like to advocate for them. Look at the OP - despite "thinking a lot" no actual reasoning is presented.
Eternal Father, King of birth, /Who didst create the heaven and earth, /And bid the planets and the sun/ Their own appointed orbits run; /O hear us when we seek thy grace /For those who soar through outer space.
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Maradusa Macarthy
Hedion University Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2015.08.24 13:26:11 -
[157] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:... The environment and circumstances matter sure, but at the end of the day, whether one experiences success or failure is fundamentally internal, not external. A Reset of EVE Online would just be confirmation of the fact that some people suck at gaming and others don't. We already know this lol. Why haven't you tried to form your own cult yet?
pfft
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2260
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Posted - 2015.08.24 14:30:28 -
[158] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:... I'm going to keep talking, ... ... or you can try putting on a different record and having an original thought this year instead of repeating the same one from years gone by. Unfortunately for you, in order to accuse someone of argumentum ad nauseum, you also have to demonstrate that there's some other flaw in their argument. ... Arguing against an opinion is notoriously futile as it is seldom possible to empirically disprove.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
231
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Posted - 2015.08.24 14:37:14 -
[159] - Quote
A reset is a terrible idea, but TBH if they opened a new US server, I'd abandon my current characters and start over there, if for no other reason than to see if I get a lot fewer "socket closed" disconnects. I've played a lot of MMOs over the years, and never got disconnected near as often as happens to me in this one. |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12179
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Posted - 2015.08.24 14:46:17 -
[160] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:... I'm going to keep talking, ... ... or you can try putting on a different record and having an original thought this year instead of repeating the same one from years gone by. Unfortunately for you, in order to accuse someone of argumentum ad nauseum, you also have to demonstrate that there's some other flaw in their argument. ... Arguing against an opinion is notoriously futile as it is seldom possible to empirically disprove.
So is your belief that failure must mostly be external. That is your belief right? Because the post you responded to offered only the observation that a Reset won't help like some people like they think it would, because the problem was never the wealth or SP of other players, the problem was and is the limitations people put on themselves. Off all people you should understand this, Fozzie sov was put in place along much of the same thinking, and you've posted against that system.
You and I both know the real deal here though. What I said (and the things I say) strike too close to home with you, they go against what you need to believe, and yet you can't figure out a way to fight it with logic. So you lash out like a 5 year old who had his juice box taken from him, rather than reacting like an adult who has full confidence in his perspective.
I've said this to many a broken person who chose to post on this forum, and ill say it to you, if lashing out at me makes you feel better, have at it, but it ain't going to fix your problem..which is you. |
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12180
|
Posted - 2015.08.24 14:59:56 -
[161] - Quote
Kiryen O'Bannon wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:I think there is a simularity between people who believe a reset will 'help' them (or the situation in general) and things like Fozzie sov (that's supposed to "open up" opportunities for the previously disenfranchised "small guy") and other changes CCP has made or wanted to make. Some people have the idea that "I want to do things, but I can't because of this unfairness, if only this injustice didn't exist, I would shine!" lol. What really happens is that when you remove all these 'barriers' you find the same people who succeeded in the past end up succeeding again (because success is a part of who they are and how they think) and the people who failed in the past (and blamed it on the barriers) keep failing. This is why CCPs attempts to "open up the game" have failed, the kind of person who will continue to play EVE past the trial would have continued under almost any circumstances, people who quit would have quit anyway. I actually saw this happen in real life, a guy working for my organization claimed that a few policies we had were all that was holding him back. So he ends up working for another organization that doesn't have the same restrictions....and still hasn't made any progress (and is now blaming it on a new set of conditions...conditions that didn't exist in the original organization lol). BTW, In the exact same time frame I've been promoted twice, because the things that guy thought were barriers , weren't The environment and circumstances matter sure, but at the end of the day, whether one experiences success or failure is fundamentally internal, not external. A Reset of EVE Online would just be confirmation of the fact that some people suck at gaming and others don't. We already know this lol. The mentality you're describing is a major problem in real life; half the political spectrum is devoted to removing "barriers" to people's success, then inventing new barriers to remove in order to keep the gravy train going. In real life people at least have the excuse that there's been plenty of real injustice in the world - EVE is a game. If it's unjust and unfair, get better or quit. Major "rock in the pond changes" because ~reasons~ are a terrible idea, but people with no critical thinking or analysis skills like to advocate for them. Look at the OP - despite "thinking a lot" no actual reasoning is presented.
Exactly. The 'remove the barriers' types always mean well IMO (in game and out), but by not recognizing where the actual problem comes from (mostly inside, outside can be a problem but that can be overcome), they're solutions always miss the mark. Not only miss the mark, but frequently make things worse for the very people who they were trying to help.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2260
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:01:26 -
[162] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:... So is your belief that failure must mostly be external. ... My opinion is that it is usually a balance of both external and internal. However, I don't see this as a revelation that I must lecture people upon at every available opportunity.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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TrickyBlackSteel
Russia Caldari RUCA Emperor
31
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:04:53 -
[163] - Quote
i would say a big yes,but this wont happen:) its useless |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12180
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:35:57 -
[164] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:... So is your belief that failure must mostly be external. ... My opinion is that it is usually a balance of both external and internal. However, I don't see this as a revelation that I must lecture people upon at every available opportunity.
#1. If you don't like it, ignore function
#2. "A balance" is a cop out answer , basically proclaiming "the things I wanted to do but have failed to do in life haven't totally been my fault". In real life, It's BS if you live (or can get to) a developed country, in a sandbox game it's even worse than that. People in EVE have proven that you can take the 5000 isk you get on character creation and make a fortune with it, that you can take frigs or industrials and beat vets in cruisers, that you can take ships that "everyone knows suck" and end up on youtube pwning multiple other ships, that you can do the highest end PVE in cheap easy to train for ships etc etc.
Over time I've come to believe that the 'external factors' people tend to be the 'change the world' types who cling to the idea that if you just manipulate a certain environment or factors of it, you can create favorable situations. No one can be surprised that this is how you think, or that you would respond so negatively to the idea that YOU can't change things like you want, because the problem isn't the environment you can manipulate, the problem is people, that you can't (not in the same way).
TL;DR, people like you need it to be someone or something else's fault. It's not.
Back on topic, People who think a reset would help are people who hide behind the idea that some nebulous "external factor" is keeping them down. Part of me would actually like to see a reset, so that after 1-3 months with the people who are rich and prominent in EVE become rich and prominent again, at least we'd have somethign to show to all these 'external factors!' types. Not that it would make any difference to them (you). |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2262
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:47:46 -
[165] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:... In real life, ... if you ... can get to... a developed country, ... ... and here you show your awareness of external circumstances. I also love how you need to classify, "people like you."
... and we are into a worthless debate on your pet opinion. *Sigh*
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12180
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Posted - 2015.08.24 15:54:17 -
[166] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
... and we are into a worthless debate on your pet opinion. *Sigh*
This is what it looks like when an adult male has no sense of personal responsibility. You do recall that YOU replied to one of my posts right (and you keep doing so, and not using the ignore function)?
So ima keep talking, thank you for continuing to provide a platform from which I can broadcast my view of things (and looking at the replies since your post, my views resonate with at least a few others, more so than your own do). Couldn't do it without you...
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2262
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:05:44 -
[167] - Quote
"People like them," is an external factor, by the way. You are probably quite frustrated because you seem to live under the belief that you can change people.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12180
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:07:43 -
[168] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:"People like them," is an external factor, by the way. You are probably quite frustrated because you seem to live under the belief that you can change people.
I wouldn't change others if I could (exception, real life criminals). If I could change you, where would we get our entertainment from?
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2262
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:11:08 -
[169] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:... (exception, real life criminals). ... ... who often have a great many external circumstances that propell them in that direction and need exceptional internal will to avoid / overcome.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
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Bellatrix Invicta
The Conference Elite CODE.
231
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:11:10 -
[170] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:"People like them," is an external factor, by the way. You are probably quite frustrated because you seem to live under the belief that you can change people.
Just want to interject here and say that you went way off the target with this one. I was enjoying the read until you took a snipe like that; uncool. People can, and do, change and often times for reasons less important than spacepixels.
Carry on.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2262
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:44:25 -
[171] - Quote
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:... you can change people. ... People can, and do, change ... Ever seen anyone inject someone else with a cure for alcoholism that worked? I mean, sure, maybe Jenn is going for the brain washing angle but other than that, people will change from their internal self interest, not from the desires of others.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Bellatrix Invicta
The Conference Elite CODE.
234
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:51:19 -
[172] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:... you can change people. ... People can, and do, change ... Ever seen anyone inject someone else with a cure for alcoholism that worked? I mean, sure, maybe Jenn is going for the brain washing angle but other than that, people will change from their internal self interest, not from the desires of others.
Using a specific example to disprove a generalization is not only bad form, it's really really wrong. Just, stop.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2262
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:56:01 -
[173] - Quote
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Using a specific example ... Top of my head, patriots, nationalists, fundamentalists and Code.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Bellatrix Invicta
The Conference Elite CODE.
234
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:58:05 -
[174] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Bellatrix Invicta wrote:Using a specific example ... Top of my head, patriots, nationalists, fundamentalists and Code.
And now mixing in-game with RL.
"Kay. The thread is yours again; I'm done.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12180
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Posted - 2015.08.24 16:58:12 -
[175] - Quote
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:... (exception, real life criminals). ... ... who often have a great many external circumstances that propel them in that direction and need exceptional internal will to avoid / overcome.
That you would be an apologist for people who do real life evil is no surprise.
How then do you explain those of us from the SAME 'external' circumstances (poor, perhaps the "wrong color", from the 'wrong side of the tracks" with no 'connections, with adverse mental health histories in their families etc) who not only don't become criminals, but come up to contribute to society?
Believing in the power of the 'external factors' is just a way people salve their own egos about things. Problem, is, they take that believe into every endeavor. Even recreational ones (like playing a spaceship MMO).
Then they find themselves on said spaceship MMO's forum believing that 'if you just lower this barrier (or remove it, like resstting the whole game), more people will come'. So the game developer lowers the barrier, and more people don't come (because while they blamed the barrier, it was their lack of will that was at fault). Meanwhile, people who ignored the barrier (or NEEDED THAT BARRIER TO EXIST to make the journey into that mmo worthwhile) end up playing less because the game is less challenging. A fine example of a good intention making things worse rather than better.
I think it is no coincidence that EVE Online is today more safe, more user friendly, more accessible than ever before while at the exact same time seeming to be less popular than it has been in a very long time. The desire that some have for a reset is just a continuation of the failed "if you just level the playing field" mentality that imo has led to the current situation.
Real players don't give a flip about level playing fields, they simply find a way to be the guys standing on the best part of the field...
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Jenshae Chiroptera
2262
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Posted - 2015.08.24 17:13:57 -
[176] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:... How then do you explain those of us from the SAME 'external' circumstances... Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:... external circumstances ... internal will ... How do you explain the greater propensity for violent crime from poor backgrounds?
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Sarah Eyrou
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2015.08.24 23:51:55 -
[177] - Quote
how to reset? wont people lose their skills and assets? |
Jenshae Chiroptera
2263
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Posted - 2015.08.25 00:46:58 -
[178] - Quote
Sarah Eyrou wrote:how to reset? Yes, you basically just clear out the character database.
CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids
There are other ways to fix Null Sec stagnation and Fozzie SOV is the wrong approach.
|
Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing
599
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Posted - 2015.08.25 00:54:04 -
[179] - Quote
it's nice to see that the people who understand what's really going on are all coming to the same conclusion that EvE needs to be reset.
The rest of you:
Don't worry, we'll pick you up on the next lap. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
3200
|
Posted - 2015.08.25 01:14:37 -
[180] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:it's nice to see that the people who understand what's really going on
That would be CCP
Divine Entervention wrote:are all coming to the same conclusion that EvE needs to be reset.
Devblog? Dev post on the forum? I'll even take a failbook or twit message.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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