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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2575
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Posted - 2015.08.20 07:44:54 -
[1] - Quote
Even in the cases most strongly tilted in favor of resist rigs, the hit point bonus rigs still add a lot more effective hit points. Sure, resists are more valuable overall than raw hit points, but you could increase the resist rigs a lot before you'd ever see them offer more EHP than the hit point rigs. As it stands, they offer so little difference it's just not worth fitting them in place of the HP rigs. A lot of times I don't fit them even when I'm not fitting anything else, simply because the drawbacks are too strong for such a weak bonus. I'd rather have empty rig slots than increase my sig radius or mass by a higher percentage than I increase my effective hit points.
I suggest boosting them to 40% resist for the tech 1 and 45% resist for the tech 2. That way they will offer more resist than shield amplifiers and armor energized membranes, which makes sense because the amplifiers and membranes have cheap fitting costs and do not confer any drawbacks.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
84
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 08:02:28 -
[2] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Even in the cases most strongly tilted in favor of resist rigs, the hit point bonus rigs still add a lot more effective hit points. Sure, resists are more valuable overall than raw hit points, but you could increase the resist rigs a lot before you'd ever see them offer more EHP than the hit point rigs. As it stands, they offer so little difference it's just not worth fitting them in place of the HP rigs. A lot of times I don't fit them even when I'm not fitting anything else, simply because the drawbacks are too strong for such a weak bonus. I'd rather have empty rig slots than increase my sig radius or mass by a higher percentage than I increase my effective hit points.
I suggest boosting them to 40% resist for the tech 1 and 45% resist for the tech 2. That way they will offer more resist than shield amplifiers and armor energized membranes, which makes sense because the amplifiers and membranes have cheap fitting costs and do not confer any drawbacks.
Not a bad idea. Due to the drawbacks I don't bother to fit any resist rigs unless I don't have the calibration to fit anything else and even then I'd look for something else, resist rigs just aren't worth it. Unless I have a huge resist hole that I really really need to plug up.
+1
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Arla Sarain
604
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Posted - 2015.08.20 08:18:40 -
[3] - Quote
EHP isn't everything though.
Especially considering how misleading the figure is, comparing between the ingame one, which is based on the lowest resist and EFT one, which based on the average of resists.
If you know what you are fighting, resist rigs offer a lot more that the meager increase from buffer alone. If you are active tanking, resists rigs are for more valuable as well since they increase the return per rep cycle. |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels FETID
739
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 08:22:30 -
[4] - Quote
Personally I feel that resistance rigs are pretty well balanced. They are a good option for active tanks and fill a hole in resistance profiles nicely.
A very small tweak or a change in drawbacks may be beneficial but the real reason HP rigs are overpowered is because they don't suffer from stacking penalties.
Rigs in general could use some iteration or a complete redesign. However, they are one of the only systems in EvE that work well (excluding the useless rigs) at the moment. There are bigger fish to fry. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2575
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 08:53:10 -
[5] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:If you know what you are fighting, resist rigs offer a lot more that the meager increase from buffer alone. If you are active tanking, resists rigs are far more valuable as well since they increase the return per rep cycle. Not really even then. Let me give you an example--I'll use a very rudimentary tank setup, one where the resist rig has a lot of room to provide a bonus, and little stacking penalty to stand in its way:
All skills level 5, no fleet boosts, no implants or boosters Ship: Harbinger - one of these shield fit is likely to rely on rigs to supplement the tank Modules: T2 shield extender, T2 EM hardener, T2 AIF, T2 Damage Control Rigs: 2x T1 defense field extender Resist hole: thermal
Lets use lasers against it. (damage profile 60% EM and 40% thermal)
Resist Layout: 70.9 // 51.0 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 52,169 Base max shield EHP regen: 59
If we add a T1 thermal shield rig to the last rig slot: Resist Layout: 70.9 // 63.8 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 56,163 +7.6% Base max shield EHP regen: 69
If we add a T1 shield extender rig instead: Resist Layout: 70.9 // 51.0 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 55,916 +7.2% Base max shield EHP regen: 68
In this extreme scenario, the resist rig is a little bit better than the hit point rig.
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
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Arla Sarain
605
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Posted - 2015.08.20 09:54:01 -
[6] - Quote
You say you want to protect yourselves from lasers, but then say you plug a hole. That's not protecting yourself from a certain damage type, it is just what it is, plugging a hole. Which in own capacity is the reward for rigs - a uniform defense profile that prevents your buffer from being depleted at an increased rate.
Another point is that the incoming thermal damage is only 40% of the total damage.
Receive pure thermal damage on that ship with the rig. Then do the same without. You get 36% and 49% of the damage, which is a 49/36 = 1.36 the difference. A third extender won't give you that.
Is it lopsided? Maybe. But it's a choice. And excluding that it requires more thought to execute properly, it's not worthless, or certainly not worse than extenders/trimark pumps. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1833
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 09:59:30 -
[7] - Quote
No, because you're forgetting how hard resists make logi repping multiply. Ever 0.1% makes the absolute values of HP repped by logi that much harder to re-remove.
In other words, buffer doesn't scale with logi, resists do.
This was why the hull bonuses dropped from 5% to 4%/level too. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2649
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 10:06:07 -
[8] - Quote
They can't be that bad they are used quite often.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels FETID
741
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 10:35:55 -
[9] - Quote
hhhmmmmm,
I don't know what's going on in EFT but when I add a shield extender to a Hurricane it adds more raw HP's than the LSE II is supposed to add (should +2600, actually +3250)
I'm guessing this is because the module adds the HP value to the base HP value of the ship and then it applies skills to that new value. [confirmed]
I was under the impression that skills only applied to the absolute base stats not to the "fitted ship" stats.
Learn something new everyday.
Anyway, this just compounds the issue with buffer rigs being percentage based without stacking penalties as they add even more with each rig applied. They also apply "last". So it gets even worse as the way it all adds up is like this:
(((Base stats + modules) x skills) = A (A being an unrigged but fitted ship stats)
A is then multiplied by the buffer rigs like this:
A x rig 1 (a CDFE II - 20% buff) = A x 1.2 which we will call Ar1 Rig 2 is then applied to Ar1 Ar1 x rig 2 = Ar1 x 1.2. which we will call Ar2 The bonus the second CDFE applies is +20% of Ar1 which actually equates to +24% buffer to "A". The 3rd rig also applies sequentially to Ar2 by buffing it by a further 20%. This actually equates to a 29% buff of the original buffer value.
This means that 3 T2 buffer rigs give you a 73% bonus from your original HP pool on your fitted ship. That is 3 off 20% bonus rigs giving 73% bonus.
Buffer rig stacking (or the lack stacking penalties) and the way rigs apply to ship stats is the imbalance when it comes to the differentiation between resistance rigs and buffer rigs.
Also, I haven't looked at how fleet or implant bonuses apply |
Samillian
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
928
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 11:05:45 -
[10] - Quote
afkalt wrote:No, because you're forgetting how hard resists make logi repping multiply. Ever 0.1% makes the absolute values of HP repped by logi that much harder to re-remove.
In other words, buffer doesn't scale with logi, resists do.
This was why the hull bonuses dropped from 5% to 4%/level too.
This is also my understanding of the relationship between rep and resist.
Not supported.
NBSI shall be the whole of the Law
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3041
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 11:38:24 -
[11] - Quote
I could be wrong, but I don't believe that compensation skills buff the resist amounts of resist rigs.
The only buff I could see is changing this so that compensation skills to work with resist rigs.
Roleplaying Trinkets for Explorers and Collectors
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels FETID
741
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 12:03:19 -
[12] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't believe that compensation skills buff the resist amounts of resist rigs.
The only buff I could see is changing this so that compensation skills to work with resist rigs.
Skills that increase HP values also don't increase the bonus rigs apply. This is working as intended.
Like I said above, the issue is how HP buffer rigs apply to the final fitted ship stats and then pile on top of each other sequentially with out stacking penalties.
This isn't the case with resistance rigs as they apply sequentially to the remaining resistance hole.
For example -
Shields because of the zero stating point:
3 off T2 EM resistance rigs fitted to an unfitted ship provide an increase in resistances from 0% to 63.8% even though each rig provides 35% bonus to shield resistances.
So why isn't it a final 105% resistance? Because resistance buffs are applied to the remainder of the resistance. The first rig is applied to a 0% resist which gives the full 35% increase in resistance. The second rig is applied to 35% resist which is then a 35% increase of 65% = 22.75% increase in resistance. But it actually doesn't. This is because resistance rigs have stacking penalties. Which means the second T2 EM rig only provides 30.5% bonus to the remainder of 65% which equals an increase of 19.8% and an end result of 54.8%. The third rig is stacking penalized and also receives the diminishing returns of only applying to the remaining 45.2% resistance hole.
Buffer rigs don't suffer from diminishing returns. They actually get enhancing returns as the more you use the more you get!
Buffer rigs are the issue. Not resistance rigs. |
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
277
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 12:28:48 -
[13] - Quote
I think resist rigs offer enough resistance, but I think reducing the penalty in comparison to trimarks/extenders would be a good move. |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1836
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 12:36:50 -
[14] - Quote
No. No. No.
A caracal with a single invuln has a 244 EHP/s tank from a SINGLE large remote shield booster.
Add 2x em and 1X therm rigs and that's suddenly 307 EHP/s.
Get the picture?
Yes, there are some ships which do better with trimarks/extenders HOWEVER they tend to be hulls already innately resist boost. No shocker there.
With logi in play, so long as you can not get alphad resists are ALWAYS superior.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2113
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 13:13:10 -
[15] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't believe that compensation skills buff the resist amounts of resist rigs.
The only buff I could see is changing this so that compensation skills to work with resist rigs. Skills that increase HP values also don't increase the bonus rigs apply. This is working as intended. Like I said above, the issue is how HP buffer rigs apply to the final fitted ship stats and then pile on top of each other sequentially with out stacking penalties. This isn't the case with resistance rigs as they apply sequentially to the remaining resistance hole. For example - Shields because of the zero stating point: 3 off T2 EM resistance rigs fitted to an unfitted ship provide an increase in resistances from 0% to 63.8% even though each rig provides 35% bonus to shield resistances. So why isn't it a final 105% resistance? Because resistance buffs are applied to the remainder of the resistance. The first rig is applied to a 0% resist which gives the full 35% increase in resistance. The second rig is applied to 35% resist which is then a 35% increase of 65% = 22.75% increase in resistance. But it actually doesn't. This is because resistance rigs have stacking penalties. Which means the second T2 EM rig only provides 30.5% bonus to the remainder of 65% which equals an increase of 19.8% and an end result of 54.8%. The third rig is stacking penalized and also receives the diminishing returns of only applying to the remaining 45.2% resistance hole. Buffer rigs don't suffer from diminishing returns. They actually get enhancing returns as the more you use the more you get! Buffer rigs are the issue. Not resistance rigs.
Buffer rigs are better on buffer fit.
News at 11. |
Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels FETID
741
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 13:19:59 -
[16] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't believe that compensation skills buff the resist amounts of resist rigs.
The only buff I could see is changing this so that compensation skills to work with resist rigs. Skills that increase HP values also don't increase the bonus rigs apply. This is working as intended. Like I said above, the issue is how HP buffer rigs apply to the final fitted ship stats and then pile on top of each other sequentially with out stacking penalties. This isn't the case with resistance rigs as they apply sequentially to the remaining resistance hole. For example - Shields because of the zero stating point: 3 off T2 EM resistance rigs fitted to an unfitted ship provide an increase in resistances from 0% to 63.8% even though each rig provides 35% bonus to shield resistances. So why isn't it a final 105% resistance? Because resistance buffs are applied to the remainder of the resistance. The first rig is applied to a 0% resist which gives the full 35% increase in resistance. The second rig is applied to 35% resist which is then a 35% increase of 65% = 22.75% increase in resistance. But it actually doesn't. This is because resistance rigs have stacking penalties. Which means the second T2 EM rig only provides 30.5% bonus to the remainder of 65% which equals an increase of 19.8% and an end result of 54.8%. The third rig is stacking penalized and also receives the diminishing returns of only applying to the remaining 45.2% resistance hole. Buffer rigs don't suffer from diminishing returns. They actually get enhancing returns as the more you use the more you get! Buffer rigs are the issue. Not resistance rigs. Buffer rigs are better on buffer fit. News at 11.
and the award for dumbness, trying to be clever, making a Cpt Obvious statement and completely missing the point goes to...............
I'll spell it out for you.....
Buffer rigs need a nerf (and probably stacking penalties). |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2113
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 13:25:45 -
[17] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Spugg Galdon wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't believe that compensation skills buff the resist amounts of resist rigs.
The only buff I could see is changing this so that compensation skills to work with resist rigs. Skills that increase HP values also don't increase the bonus rigs apply. This is working as intended. Like I said above, the issue is how HP buffer rigs apply to the final fitted ship stats and then pile on top of each other sequentially with out stacking penalties. This isn't the case with resistance rigs as they apply sequentially to the remaining resistance hole. For example - Shields because of the zero stating point: 3 off T2 EM resistance rigs fitted to an unfitted ship provide an increase in resistances from 0% to 63.8% even though each rig provides 35% bonus to shield resistances. So why isn't it a final 105% resistance? Because resistance buffs are applied to the remainder of the resistance. The first rig is applied to a 0% resist which gives the full 35% increase in resistance. The second rig is applied to 35% resist which is then a 35% increase of 65% = 22.75% increase in resistance. But it actually doesn't. This is because resistance rigs have stacking penalties. Which means the second T2 EM rig only provides 30.5% bonus to the remainder of 65% which equals an increase of 19.8% and an end result of 54.8%. The third rig is stacking penalized and also receives the diminishing returns of only applying to the remaining 45.2% resistance hole. Buffer rigs don't suffer from diminishing returns. They actually get enhancing returns as the more you use the more you get! Buffer rigs are the issue. Not resistance rigs. Buffer rigs are better on buffer fit. News at 11. and the award for dumbness, trying to be clever, making a Cpt Obvious statement and completely missing the point goes to............... I'll spell it out for you..... Buffer rigs need a nerf (and probably stacking penalties).
They don't need a nerf at all. They are good at what they do but don't overlap others in their own use case. |
Zimmer Jones
Aliastra Gallente Federation
284
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 13:56:53 -
[18] - Quote
What about just a reduction in stacking penalties for resist rigs?
Or, just for fun, go another way completely and have the rigs not as resists themselves but boost resist mods of their type, keeping the drawback of course. Useless rigs by themselves, not as utility and disposed of more often. Burn out your mods? Well rigs can no longer help you until said mod is replaced, but the drawbacks remain.
Of course that completely negates your concept of the rigs being useful on their own in comparison to mods, but i couldn't leave it at one question.
You are content to be content. This is not a jedi mind trick, you're just the game
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Spugg Galdon
Nisroc Angels FETID
741
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 14:13:24 -
[19] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
They don't need a nerf at all. They are good at what they do but don't overlap others in their own use case.
My point is that they are too good at what they do in comparison and also, their calibration point cost at this performance is too cheap.
Buffer rigs have needed a nerf for a long time. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2115
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 15:20:54 -
[20] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
They don't need a nerf at all. They are good at what they do but don't overlap others in their own use case.
My point is that they are too good at what they do in comparison and also, their calibration point cost at this performance is too cheap. Buffer rigs have needed a nerf for a long time. Lets look at it from another angle. Purger rigs increase shield recharge rate by reducing the time required to fully replenish the shields. So a CDFP II reduces the shield recharge time by 25% per rig. On a blank Drake: The 1st CDFP II reduces the shield recharge time by 25% A reduction of 262.5 seconds. The 2nd CDFP II reduces this modified shield recharge time by 25% A reduction of a further 196.9 seconds Only 75% of the effect the 1st CDFP II Or an effective reduction of 18.75% of the original recharge time. The 3rd CDFP II reduces this modified modified shield recharge time by 25% A reduction of a further 147.6 seconds Only 75% of the effect of the 2nd CDFP II and only 56% as effective as the 1st CDFP II. So 3 off CDFP II's at 25% reduction each only give a total reduction in shield recharge time by almost 58% Whereas 3 off CDFE II rigs which buff shield hitpoints by 20% each give a total HP gain of 74%. See what's wrong here? Purgers have a similar diminishing returns mechanic as resist rigs. Other rigs also have very similar diminishing returns. The only rigs, and maybe the only thing in the game, which has enhancing returns when fitting multiple of them are buffer rigs. Am I making it clear enough as to why buffer rigs are broken yet?
A case could be made that they need to also be affected by stacking penalty but according to CCP in the missile rig "debacle" that would not be a nerf but just a fix to game mechanic not applying correctly to the rigs. Pretty sure they are the only % bonus mods with no stacking penalty but that's more a "should the stacking rules apply to those too" than a "do they need to be nerfed" question.
Also, shield regen is probably the mechanic with the most case of some module being border line self defeating. |
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Arla Sarain
606
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 16:38:58 -
[21] - Quote
Spugg Galdon wrote:
So 3 off CDFP II's at 25% reduction each only give a total reduction in shield recharge time by almost 58%
Whereas 3 off CDFE II rigs which buff shield hitpoints by 20% each give a total HP gain of 74%. See what's wrong here?
58% reduction in time is more than 74% increase in recharge amount.
1/0.42 = 2.38 or 138%.
Three purgers are stronger than 3 extenders for recharge. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1326
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 16:43:57 -
[22] - Quote
Anything that buffs RR is not currently a good idea. Could you imagine what super fights would be like if you could actually tank an erebus? We'd go from 2 explosions / 1 hour to 1 explosion / 2 hours. |
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 18:14:50 -
[23] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:If you know what you are fighting, resist rigs offer a lot more that the meager increase from buffer alone. If you are active tanking, resists rigs are far more valuable as well since they increase the return per rep cycle. Not really even then. Let me give you an example--I'll use a very rudimentary tank setup, one where the resist rig has a lot of room to provide a bonus, and little stacking penalty to stand in its way: All skills level 5, no fleet boosts, no implants or boostersShip: Harbinger - one of these shield fit is likely to rely on rigs to supplement the tank Modules: T2 shield extender, T2 EM hardener, T2 AIF, T2 Damage Control Rigs: 2x T1 defense field extender Resist hole: thermal Lets use lasers against it. (damage profile 60% EM and 40% thermal)Resist Layout: 70.9 // 51.0 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 52,169 Base max shield EHP regen: 59 If we add a T1 thermal shield rig to the last rig slot: Resist Layout: 70.9 // 63.8 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 56,163 +7.6%Base max shield EHP regen: 69 If we add a T1 shield extender rig instead: Resist Layout: 70.9 // 51.0 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 55,916 +7.2%Base max shield EHP regen: 68 In this extreme scenario, the resist rig is a little bit better than the hit point rig.
So what your saying is that a resist rig only effective on 40% of the dmg is better than an extender rig that work on 100% of the dmg. Dont sound like they need much boosting if you ask me |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2121
|
Posted - 2015.08.20 18:33:36 -
[24] - Quote
Haatakan Reppola wrote:Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:If you know what you are fighting, resist rigs offer a lot more that the meager increase from buffer alone. If you are active tanking, resists rigs are far more valuable as well since they increase the return per rep cycle. Not really even then. Let me give you an example--I'll use a very rudimentary tank setup, one where the resist rig has a lot of room to provide a bonus, and little stacking penalty to stand in its way: All skills level 5, no fleet boosts, no implants or boostersShip: Harbinger - one of these shield fit is likely to rely on rigs to supplement the tank Modules: T2 shield extender, T2 EM hardener, T2 AIF, T2 Damage Control Rigs: 2x T1 defense field extender Resist hole: thermal Lets use lasers against it. (damage profile 60% EM and 40% thermal)Resist Layout: 70.9 // 51.0 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 52,169 Base max shield EHP regen: 59 If we add a T1 thermal shield rig to the last rig slot: Resist Layout: 70.9 // 63.8 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 56,163 +7.6%Base max shield EHP regen: 69 If we add a T1 shield extender rig instead: Resist Layout: 70.9 // 51.0 // 63.3 // 69.4 Effective Hit Points vs. Lasers: 55,916 +7.2%Base max shield EHP regen: 68 In this extreme scenario, the resist rig is a little bit better than the hit point rig. So what your saying is that a resist rig only effective on 40% of the dmg is better than an extender rig that work on 100% of the dmg. Dont sound like they need much boosting if you ask me
He also didn't take reps into account at all... |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2580
|
Posted - 2015.08.21 05:19:52 -
[25] - Quote
It only buffs one resist. I gave a case that while extreme is actually reasonable. Lasers are a common weapon you encounter and one of the more major ways your thermal resist hole gets hit. You can actually expect your incoming damage to be mostly or only one specific type unless you're either going into PVE or your PVP opponents are just bad. Sure, a resist rig for one type usually gives more for that type than a rig spread across all types. But what about when that's not the damage you're taking? It should be a lot stronger. Why do you think t1 hardeners grant 50% resist?
Pirate ship Nightmare, can you fathom
Larger but with smaller spikes than Phantasm
The Succubus looks meaner
But the Revenant cleaner
Seems as they get bigger, the smaller spikes they has'm
|
Daniela Doran
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2015.08.21 05:21:14 -
[26] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:I could be wrong, but I don't believe that compensation skills buff the resist amounts of resist rigs.
The only buff I could see is changing this so that compensation skills to work with resist rigs.
That would also give a reason to train Shield Resist compensation skills.
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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
1038
|
Posted - 2015.08.21 06:14:34 -
[27] - Quote
afkalt wrote:No, because you're forgetting how hard resists make logi repping multiply. Ever 0.1% makes the absolute values of HP repped by logi that much harder to re-remove.
In other words, buffer doesn't scale with logi, resists do.
This was why the hull bonuses dropped from 5% to 4%/level too. Let us not forget that OP is the one who also suggests to cut repping power of RR in two to four, apparently. Hence comparisons with buffer rigs first, I suppose.
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1846
|
Posted - 2015.08.21 06:44:31 -
[28] - Quote
Barrogh Habalu wrote:afkalt wrote:No, because you're forgetting how hard resists make logi repping multiply. Ever 0.1% makes the absolute values of HP repped by logi that much harder to re-remove.
In other words, buffer doesn't scale with logi, resists do.
This was why the hull bonuses dropped from 5% to 4%/level too. Let us not forget that OP is the one who also suggests to cut repping power of RR in two to four, apparently. Hence comparisons with buffer rigs first, I suppose.
But it really doesn't matter. Either reps hold, or they do not. Buffer has NOTHING to offer there, but more time until you die. Resists scale logi, no matter the logi, buffer does not so they are not comparable. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
400
|
Posted - 2015.08.21 06:44:31 -
[29] - Quote
I always wondering about native EM shield whole which is inherent to most of the t1 hulls. So probably the EM shield resist rig is one of the most popular in fittings. Same goes to Explsv rig on armor fits. Talking about T1 hulls.
And i was catching myself on the one big wish to shake this resists layout which we currently have. And probably get rid of resists rigssince we have nice mods to replace them. Having buff % of rigs would probably move those mods into the shadow. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
401
|
Posted - 2015.08.21 07:06:59 -
[30] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Barrogh Habalu wrote:afkalt wrote:No, because you're forgetting how hard resists make logi repping multiply. Ever 0.1% makes the absolute values of HP repped by logi that much harder to re-remove.
In other words, buffer doesn't scale with logi, resists do.
This was why the hull bonuses dropped from 5% to 4%/level too. Let us not forget that OP is the one who also suggests to cut repping power of RR in two to four, apparently. Hence comparisons with buffer rigs first, I suppose. But it really doesn't matter. Either reps hold, or they do not. Buffer has NOTHING to offer there, but more time until you die. Resists scale logi, no matter the logi, buffer does not so they are not comparable.
I do imagine logi would start feeding you with resisits transfer vs hit points, it's gonna be fun |
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