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Sugar Kyle
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1024
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Posted - 2015.08.21 14:33:24 -
[1] - Quote
Hey there. IGÇÖve been tasked with a little fact finding and IGÇÖd love to get some help in this. IGÇÖve been gathering the complaints, hopes, and dreams of members of faction warfare since I was elected and ramped it up a bit since Fanfest. There is a lot on this plate with proposals and documents and thousands of lines of productive discussion involved in looking towards Faction Warfare's future.
IGÇÖd like to take a minute to focus on the new players entering Faction Warfare. They are suggested to their various militia during the career missions. Some, we hope, will find themselves a corporation and learn. Others cast themselves into the war and plan to learn along the way.
We need to make this better.
IGÇÖve collected lots of hurdles for new players enter FW. From the standings hits that they will take to the lack of a good overview tab to help them sort out who is friend and who is foe there are dozens of things that could make this process smoother. IGÇÖd love to hear your ideas.
I know that we have a lot of high end things to discuss from better PvP rewards to missions god help them and all of us. IGÇÖm paying attention to all of that too. But this is a point IGÇÖd like to hear from you all about. Your personal experiences, your recruiters experiences, the things that you believe will improve your militia and help inject new blood into things.
Like the faction police in high sec. Should we be laughing at them? How do we look at giving militia chat an MOTD or some type of information board with things like militia coms, overview packs, and general help? Standings, oh my oh my, standings. Should pirate frigates be in novice plexes?
And thatGÇÖs just the tip of the iceberg. Please help me unearth the rest.
Member of CSMX - CSMX Weekly Updates
Member of CSM9
Low Sec Lifestyle - An Eve Blog
@Sugar_Kyle
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
489
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Posted - 2015.08.21 14:37:44 -
[2] - Quote
Welcome to FW mail from NPC corp with useful information. Basic Militia Overview in Militia chat and FW panel and in welcome to FW email. Contracts to Militia so that corps with established and strong logistics groups can help support newbros with prefit ships. Get rid of allied militia/purple overview issues. Strengthen the response of highsec navy NPCs so that the rats can't be tanked nor dragged away forever. This will still allow speed based attacks (warp in, pew, run away) in enemy highsec. Standings Issues. Smooth out the tier system so Tier1 isn't so bad and Tier4+ isn't so amazingly good. Ban T3Ds from small plexes. Remove aggression from plex rats (solves afk oplexing in a drone boat as well as making sure newbro's aren't taking damage from a freshly spawned NPC while also combatting the enemy).
*reserved for more* |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
292
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Posted - 2015.08.21 15:21:07 -
[3] - Quote
If they want to stay in a NPC corp, maybe swap them to a specific faction NPC corp, so corp chat will be amongst other people in the same militia only, this will help communication quite a bit. |
Veratrix
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
26
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Posted - 2015.08.21 15:28:20 -
[4] - Quote
Militia contracts would be nice. Would let us put up lots of attrition fit stuff that we can get to the general militia population that would make it much easier for them to participate in the big system pushes.
A militia overview pack would be great. Don't set the allied militia blue to start off with(hopefully will be solved with 4 way war), put militia in front of pirate/suspect/criminal.
Don't do high sec shenanigans, so no opinion on the npc rats. Seems like the highsec FW noob should be a bit more protected then they currently are(should join a corp and live in lowsec really), but I have no strong feelings either way.
Missions are obviously much harder for gallente then any other group. I'd actually much rather other groups missions be as difficult as ours as opposed to making ours easier, but I don't really make my isk with missions or care that other people do so I'll let more passionate people expound on that subject.
I know you said this is not what this is about, but I'll still mention every time. Faction standings losses from aoe weapons need to go. Either an exemption for fleet members or getting rid of them altogether. Stopping us for participating in lots of gameplay and tactics open to literally everyone else in game. Quite ridiculous. |
Drackarn
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry Templis CALSF
66
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Posted - 2015.08.21 15:36:11 -
[5] - Quote
Overview is one of the biggest issues I come across. As a "Security Status Challenged" individual I get many new-bro's charging into my plex and engaging when we are in same militia.
Perhaps the 'pilot in same militia' needs to override the 'Pilot is a filthy piwat'
Another one is the allied militia thing. Once they get the overview right, they then get spanked by someone they thought was friendly but is actually in the allied militia and simply uses that to gank people. I have used this trick before to get close to stabbed farmers and triple scram them. Then again they deserve to die.... horribly.
As someone previously posted, if we decouple the alliances in faction war and go for some 4-way action in FW this won't be an issue.
http://sandciderandspaceships.blogspot.com/
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate
1458
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Posted - 2015.08.21 15:44:08 -
[6] - Quote
Most beginners complain to me about not being able to be taxed on their LP.
An LP Tax would help them a lot.
https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
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X Gallentius
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2903
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Posted - 2015.08.21 15:52:54 -
[7] - Quote
I think the guys above have covered most of the stuff.
Default Militia-specific overview available. Stops newbie awox issues of newbs shooting FW pilots with low standings. Automatic suspect flag in plexes. Keeps noob standings high so they can still live in high sec. Get rid of allied-militia purple OR hammer standings for allied militia kills (Gallente on Minmatar violence, for example). - The current war is defined as Gallente+Minmatar vs. Caldari+Amarr. - Either set the game up so this is true, or break it apart to a real four way war. No ambiguity. Ban high sec station access to opposing militia. Gets rid of high sec station games.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Sugar Kyle
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1024
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Posted - 2015.08.21 16:13:43 -
[8] - Quote
IbanezLaney wrote:Most beginners complain to me about not being able to be taxed on their LP. An LP Tax would help them a lot.
New players and new entrants to FW come to you and state that their game would be improved if they could just have their LP taxed?
Member of CSMX - CSMX Weekly Updates
Member of CSM9
Low Sec Lifestyle - An Eve Blog
@Sugar_Kyle
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Arla Sarain
609
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Posted - 2015.08.21 16:42:17 -
[9] - Quote
Bring awareness to Highsec-lowsec camps (not intel, just their possibility)
Bring awareness to the available evasive options against camps
Introduce Militia Personal Deployables? Eg: Militia Mobile Depot - a lot cheaper, lasts 1h.
Fleet window tutorial of some kind, outlining broadcasts, fleet hierarchy, watchlists, the ability to lock from broadcasts, broadcasts going to the top of overview, etc. Functional details, so that they don't go "where did that target just go I cant see it".
Mention tunnel vision...
Gather facts tho, I get the impression that the newbies who want to actually fight in FW simply look for dedicated corps, and figure things out from there. The ones who are stubborn and keep flying through Tama/Villore are just farmers looking for a quick buck.
Also T3Ds, whilst should definitely get canned one way or another, are hardly the first threat to newbies. Even opponents flying T1 frigs with T2 modules and higher SP will most often destroy newbies. |
Nyjil Lizaru
Aideron Robotics
39
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Posted - 2015.08.21 17:15:19 -
[10] - Quote
Lots of great ideas already.
If CCP really wants brand-new players to enter FW, then the overview and the entry-level ISK-making opportunities are probably the two biggest issues.
We always say that new players should join a corp, but we need to acknowledge that the very stories about the game that draw people to EVE also make them suspicious. And we're gonna have 'lone wolves' in FW, it's one of the places that draw them. So an appropriate MOTD in either militia chat or the FW NPC corp chat sounds like a good idea, something that points them to more information. A way for those who aren't sure who to trust to find stuff that isn't covered in the tutorials. It might mean gathering various FW guides that have been made by players into a central location and making them semi-official, not sure how CCP would feel about that.
The faction police are OK that way they are, imo. I know they're a bit of a joke, but I think the opposing faction players should be the concern, not the NPCs.
Repeating from above because it's a big one: Automatic suspect flag in plexes. (Larger question: why do we lose sec status for shooting 'bad guys'? If I'm -2 and shoot at a -10, I should get a boost! ;) )
Get T3Ds out of smalls.
Is there any way to make LP easier to cash out without opening it to abuse? That might help the new players (not sure about that, just a thought).
Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law: -á "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
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Nameira Vanis-Tor
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
231
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Posted - 2015.08.21 17:17:37 -
[11] - Quote
Some elements that would help new players in FW:
1) Very very simple, sticky the active and recruiting FW corps thread in this forum located here...https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=342520&find=unread
If you can get an in game pointer to it somehow that would be useful. This will allow new players to find FW specialist corps who don't mind new recruits quickly and learn the ropes from them.
2) Faction standings hit are a problem for new players, if they are to be kept it would be good if the players can be clearly warned that this will happen.
3) Sec standings hits are a barrier to playing FW. Pirates are an important part of the warzones however engaging them in plexes results in FW players having to constantly repair their sec status if they want to go in high sec at all. Vet players with ISK just buy tags. New pilots have to waste a lot of time PVEing in order to access trade hubs. Giving a criminal flag for entering a plex will help new pilots to stay in FW.
4) Pirate faction frigs should be banned from Novice Plexes OR Novice Plexes should be renamed. It is a misleading name when a vet in a Garmur or Worm can pulverise a squadron of new players single handed with ease. The purpose of Novice Plexes should be to allow low skilled pilots to still be able to influence a system attack/defence and level the playing field a little bit versus high sp pilots; Pirate Fac frigs (especially Garmurs and Worms) negate this purpose.
5) T3 Dessies should not be in small Plexes they have become cancer there and are not new pilot friendly.
Some of the other things raised would be useful but the above would be quick fixes to help new entrants and FW pilot retention in my opinion. |
Moglarr
Operation Meatshield
117
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Posted - 2015.08.21 17:58:51 -
[12] - Quote
Why can the default order of things in the overview be not be changed? I think that would be easier than an overview pack.
I think it would be nice to have militia-level contracts, but if they work just like public contracts I am not sure I see a problem with just using public contracts.
I hear suspect flags for neutrals hitting plexes are inbound, I like that. (This also resolved a lot of issue with the 'safety' feature so yay!)
The thing I run into the most with my newbros is the "warp to a plex @ 10km" thing. Every vet FW players knows this and does it by default now, but also every one of us has died to an enemy fleet because that first time we hit a plex we warped at 0 and were stuck inside the acceleration gate. I don't know if that is a bigger EVE thing or just a FW thing, but that would be nice to fix. Not the biggest of deals tho.
I don't know 100% where to land on the high end faction frigs and tech 3 destroyers in plexes. Although I will admit I struggle to counter the t3d with the lower SP pilots I tend to fly with, so it would obviously help me and my newbros out if one or two Svipuls couldn't single-handed-ly lock my gangs out of small plexes. However, all of my Garmur and Worm kills have come from the enemy pilot thinking he was hot **** with his links, drugs and w/e only to get caught on the beacon.
I also like Nameira Vanis-Tor's idea of making a sticky of this thread would help.
I think something should be done about faction police, but I haven't really ever left low sec so I don't know enough to comment. However, the number of newbros that get ganked via elite high sec PVP concerns me.
Operation Meatshield! GETUP and fight!
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
3369
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Posted - 2015.08.21 17:59:30 -
[13] - Quote
reduce the volume of covops cloaks so that we can loot them with a interceptor.
how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
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Jes Jernau
The Order of Thelemic Ascension Novus Dominatum
0
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Posted - 2015.08.21 20:23:43 -
[14] - Quote
Started EVE in January 2015 and joined a FW Corp shortly afterwards.
I would suggest reworking the jumpclone mechanics, specifically reducing the cool down timer. New players trying to skill up to pew but take a training hit when out of learning implants. Especially early in the game.
Or as suggested bump new player skills up a bit.
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Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
700
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Posted - 2015.08.21 21:14:06 -
[15] - Quote
Apply FozzieSov to FW. |
X Gallentius
Aliastra Gallente Federation
2905
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Posted - 2015.08.21 21:35:22 -
[16] - Quote
(Newbro thread, not overall FW improvement thread)
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate
144
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Posted - 2015.08.22 00:36:18 -
[17] - Quote
Good luck with this mate. And congratulations on getting what I reckon is the first and only sticky I've ever seen in this section of the forums.
What do CCP envisage for a FW newbie? Hopefully it's not the quadruple warp core stabilised ship farming novice complexes. Tell us what they are aiming for and maybe we can help. Otherwise it's all just lip service.
Perhaps CCP need to provide a lot more information or links to information about faction warfare first up on the enlistment page. Expanding the rules of engagement could use a lot more information also. To put this into context, our corporation bulletins have more relevant info that a new bro would find about FW than CCP provide via in game sanctioned methods.
Make it easier for new bro's to find a new-bro friendly corporations. Expanding the corporation recruitment ads could facilitate this. Include a check box for newbie friendly and the faction. Add a MOTD in the NPC chat channels directing newbies to these corporation ads might work perhaps? Make it easier for the new player to get out of the NPC corporations where they will always be met with suspicion and prejudice.
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate
1460
|
Posted - 2015.08.22 01:11:31 -
[18] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:IbanezLaney wrote:Most beginners complain to me about not being able to be taxed on their LP. An LP Tax would help them a lot. New players and new entrants to FW come to you and state that their game would be improved if they could just have their LP taxed?
Yep.
Happens almost daily.
https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
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Sugar Kyle
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1028
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Posted - 2015.08.22 06:14:09 -
[19] - Quote
Silverbackyererse wrote:Good luck with this mate. And congratulations on getting what I reckon is the first and only sticky I've ever seen in this section of the forums. What do CCP envisage for a FW newbie? Hopefully it's not the quadruple warp core stabilised ship farming novice complexes. Tell us what they are aiming for and maybe we can help. Otherwise it's all just lip service. Perhaps CCP need to provide a lot more information or links to information about faction warfare first up on the enlistment page. Expanding the rules of engagement could use a lot more information also. To put this into context, our corporation bulletins have more relevant info that a new bro would find about FW than CCP provide via in game sanctioned methods. Make it easier for new bro's to find a new-bro friendly corporations. Expanding the corporation recruitment ads could facilitate this. Include a check box for newbie friendly and the faction. Add a MOTD in the NPC chat channels directing newbies to these corporation ads might work perhaps? Make it easier for the new player to get out of the NPC corporations where they will always be met with suspicion and prejudice. EDIT : - Please don't dumb FW down by aiming to please the lowest common denominator!
I understand your request but that is not the direction that I will find what I need. I need to know what is needed jow and what pain points there are. I don't need people to temper and try to design it. I need them to share what is said and heard and expierence from logging in each day.
Member of CSMX - CSMX Weekly Updates
Member of CSM9
Low Sec Lifestyle - An Eve Blog
@Sugar_Kyle
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
589
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Posted - 2015.08.22 17:02:54 -
[20] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:Silverbackyererse wrote:Good luck with this mate. And congratulations on getting what I reckon is the first and only sticky I've ever seen in this section of the forums. What do CCP envisage for a FW newbie? Hopefully it's not the quadruple warp core stabilised ship farming novice complexes. Tell us what they are aiming for and maybe we can help. Otherwise it's all just lip service. Perhaps CCP need to provide a lot more information or links to information about faction warfare first up on the enlistment page. Expanding the rules of engagement could use a lot more information also. To put this into context, our corporation bulletins have more relevant info that a new bro would find about FW than CCP provide via in game sanctioned methods. Make it easier for new bro's to find a new-bro friendly corporations. Expanding the corporation recruitment ads could facilitate this. Include a check box for newbie friendly and the faction. Add a MOTD in the NPC chat channels directing newbies to these corporation ads might work perhaps? Make it easier for the new player to get out of the NPC corporations where they will always be met with suspicion and prejudice. EDIT : - Please don't dumb FW down by aiming to please the lowest common denominator! I understand your request but that is not the direction that I will find what I need. I need to know what is needed jow and what pain points there are. I don't need people to temper and try to design it. I need them to share what is said and heard and expierence from logging in each day.
The fact that every faction's missions can be solo farmed in bombers except Gallente due to permajamming Caldari rats, is a long-standing gripe. I am not sure how to fix this other than removing the jams and making missions equally farmable for everyone. Perhaps they could be changed somehow to make bombers less viable. Add a few sentries perhaps? Enough to pop a bomber but not to trouble a properly tanked ship overmuch?
Oh and, war targets should not be able to dock in highsec militia stations, and using a drone+neutral logi to pull faction navy is an exploit which needs addressing. Agree with Moglarr that we don't need to incentivize bored highsec mercs hopping militias and vaping newbies in highsec. |
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Torbrand Mandero
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2015.08.23 04:26:16 -
[21] - Quote
As a newbro myself dabbling in FW over the past two weeks, I'll share my notes:
First, I agree totally with removing T3 destroyers and Pirate Faction frigs from small and novice plexs respectively. The whole point of different grades to me seems to be to allow players to find an even and fun fight. Getting blasted in seconds by a vet or pirate isn't fun, and drives new players away. I never even considered getting into a corp since I was just playing there while I looked for a new corp outside of strictly FW activities. Some kind of automated message in militia or npc corp channels could help direct new players to using the corp search tool to find specifically FW centered corporations to join. Maybe also directing them to form non-corporation NPSI type fleets (although I'm sure this is totally possible in the militia channel, it was rare for me to see anyone actually forming fleets up for FW in the militia chats.) I don't know if this is asking too much, but having to deal with an npc rat in a plex and another player usually means you'll lose. It's hard to pay attention to both at once. Maybe the AI of plex rats could be modified so they only respond once aggressed? There seems to be a lack of focus on the actual objective of FW, which is capturing plexes to capture systems. I get this, because lots of people are simply looking for fights. I feel like some plexes take too long to capture. Sitting 20 minutes on a plex in order to capture it isn't fun. Maybe a mechanic could be introduced to speed up the capture times if there are more players in the plex of the same faction? That'd serve the purpose of making capturing plexes less time consuming and motivate people to fleet up Hopefully that feedback helps. I didn't spend too much time in FW and my knowledge of all the mechanics isn't perfect, so forgive me if some of the info above is incorrect or if I've missed important details (such is probably likely.) I feel that making FW more new player friendly is definitely a good priority, as it's the only place where a new player can feasibly be successful at PVP. Other areas of the game punish new players for low sp and t1 ships because just about everyone has a better ship and more skill that you, so unless you're in a fleet you usually don't stand a chance. For that reason, I feel like getting pirate frigs out of novice plexes and t3 destroyers out of small plexes is probably the simplest fix and one most important to helping new players enjoy FW. |
Silverbackyererse
The Church of Awesome Heiian Conglomerate
145
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Posted - 2015.08.23 05:20:43 -
[22] - Quote
Sugar Kyle wrote:
I understand your request but that is not the direction that I will find what I need. I need to know what is needed jow and what pain points there are. I don't need people to temper and try to design it. I need them to share what is said and heard and expierence from logging in each day.
Understood. You need feedback from the newer characters not the old, bitter and twisted ones who've forgotten what it was like to be new to faction war and low security space.
Can I throw throw one more thought out there before I move on?
Change the name of the novice complex to something like minor complex (might want to make sure there's no spelling mistake on that one too - there's enough Ventures 'mining' in them as it is). One suspects that the current nomenclature is giving the new folks who run them a false sense of security.
/ Flees.
Seriously though, good luck mate and thanks for all your effort on low sec and FW in particular. |
Julius Foederatus
Spiritus Draconis Spaceship Bebop
259
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Posted - 2015.08.24 20:25:44 -
[23] - Quote
Since new FW guys get disproportionately camped in high sec systems, I think removing both the faction navy, and the ability for WTs to dock in enemy high sec would go a long way to making their time in FW a little easier. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
810
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Posted - 2015.08.24 23:28:58 -
[24] - Quote
Dear CCP please fix the default overview of all newbros. Like seriously he was shooting at our entire fleet because he sees us as suspects/pirates. Said newbro in question: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48626902/
I mean damn everyone was telling him stop even the guys in his fleet.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
1510
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Posted - 2015.08.24 23:41:29 -
[25] - Quote
Default window layout and overview has to be the single worst part of new player experience in any and all pvp FW included.
It doesnt make any sense that to even play the game you have to first fix the UI layout. |
Nameira Vanis-Tor
Angry Mustellid The Periphery
245
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Posted - 2015.08.25 02:07:58 -
[26] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:Dear CCP please fix the default overview of all newbros. Like seriously he was shooting at our entire fleet because he sees us as suspects/pirates. Said newbro in question: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48626902/ I mean damn everyone was telling him stop even the guys in his fleet.
Although this is a common problem it is much easier to fix now that you can link and share overview layouts.
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
813
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Posted - 2015.08.25 02:28:06 -
[27] - Quote
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:Yang Aurilen wrote:Dear CCP please fix the default overview of all newbros. Like seriously he was shooting at our entire fleet because he sees us as suspects/pirates. Said newbro in question: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48626902/ I mean damn everyone was telling him stop even the guys in his fleet. Although this is a common problem it is much easier to fix now that you can link and share overview layouts.
That usually only happens once one of you dies(usually the newbie) since most people won't stop shooting at some one they're shooting if they asked for it since it might be a trick.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
82
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Posted - 2015.08.25 14:25:57 -
[28] - Quote
Silverbackyererse wrote:One suspects that the current nomenclature is giving the new folks who run them a false sense of security. On the other hand, there should be a complex which does fit the novice.
Ideally? No pirate, no faction, no links. If you're going to tell a 8 day old character to throw themselves into lowsec to pew, at least give them an area to do so on as equal a footing as they can get. Given the choice, I'd say expand the entire complex system so that it better tiers fights (i.e. T3Ds in Smalls problem). But that's not exactly a newbie problem.
Another problem is logistics - As a week old toon, you don't want to put your training on hold for a month to train up an industrial alt. You also don't realize that the opposing faction likes to camp the highsec pipes for people who didn't drop FW while doing a resupply run. If you're part of a FW corp, hopefully they do that for you because you don't even have the option of going neutral to get a new supply of hulls.
There are some other smaller factors like, "How do I earn ISK to fund my explosions in FW?" not being terribly obvious. L1 FW doesn't earn jack (especially if your faction is currently Tier 1 as well), and both that and plex farming run into the same shipping problems as getting your hulls out of highsec.
There is probably something to be said about how difficult frigate combat is to learn, but that might be more of a 'bringing solo back' problem than a proper FW one. |
Dispex
Hoplite Brigade Hashashin Cartel
0
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Posted - 2015.08.26 07:17:54 -
[29] - Quote
Extra tickboxes in the ingame-corp-search-tool for each race under the FW-tickbox would have eased my long search for the corp I have now. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
873
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Posted - 2015.08.26 13:01:14 -
[30] - Quote
From my perspective:
1. Changes to default overview as noted above. 2. More resources in General Militia on active FW corps - possibly GenMil MOTD?
I think that between more obvious resources to help players find active FW corps, and a default overview that doesn't get you killed, you'll solve the biggest friction points.
I feel that there's a lot of things that we FW players can do to educate folks in NPC militia corps, and that we're probably better positioned than CCP to take on the mentoring roles that a lot of folks have asked for above.
Not me specifically though - a patient understanding teacher I am not!
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..."
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