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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5694
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Posted - 2016.01.11 23:19:21 -
[3661] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:I, and others, do just fine soloing or small gang, escaping camps and "instalockers" and no we don't rely on WCS or anything silly like that. Your depiction of EVE PVP isn't necessarily unrealistic but it's kinda defeatist in a "there's nothing that can be done about it" as if you're trying to convince yourself that it's just futile to even try, and thus it's just better to stick to market stuff.
Solo PVP works fine in EVE, it's limited and you will run into problems a lot, but that's the way of niche game play (like how EVE is a niche game to begin with). You just have to agree to the limitations and issues that come with it.
"Market stuff" is actually PvP, every time I get "killed" in PvP I can lose 500M-10 billions (I mostly do long term trading, where money adds), which is well beyond what I'd lose if I played with ships.
The "instalock" stuff is not defeatism. Is denouncing an hideously stupid mechanic that scares "non pros" away from PvP.
Try going solo around in anything with killing ability that it's not some T3 cheat setup, you'll easily get caught and slammed. If you don't get slammed, then the other guy just sucks at ganking.
In comparison, "pathetic ED PvP" is a supreme giant, as you always get a chance when scrambled and one after being scrambled.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2167
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Posted - 2016.01.11 23:37:15 -
[3662] - Quote
This confirms my earlier "your vision on PVP is very limited", not to bash or anything but honestly "you can't pvp unless you fly a ship worth billions", "you need T3 to pvp" is hilarious nonsense. |
Solecist Project
Little Fat Mexican Appreciation Society
31316
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Posted - 2016.01.11 23:48:55 -
[3663] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:This confirms my earlier "your vision on PVP is very limited", not to bash or anything but honestly "you can't pvp unless you fly a ship worth billions", "you need T3 to pvp" is hilarious nonsense. The definition of insanity is to keep trying the same thing over and over again ... ... expecting a different result eventually.
I hereby question your sanity, because you keep argueing abou the same things ... ... even worse, often with th same people ... ... expecting they start to actually think.
Let them talk. It's irrelevant.
Those who know better won't magically turn dumb by reading them ... ... those who don't will not turn wiser by reading you.
The yet uninitiated and dumb ones can not be helped anyway ... ... and the smart ones will realize that the naysayers ... ... and those who constantly talk about limits ... ... have nothing to say anyway.
Hey today in some local someone said "omg Sol you really write like on the forums!"
That was hilarious! ^_^ |
Solecist Project
Little Fat Mexican Appreciation Society
31319
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Posted - 2016.01.11 23:58:16 -
[3664] - Quote
I wish for one thing....
That when this game hasn't died ... ... we collectively laugh about them and point at them.
Forever.
Just to make sure they'll never forget how they made fools of themselves ...
They really deserve it. Especially the overly self important carebear up there ... ... who has nothing to show but her silly, worthless words. |
Poddington Bare
Angur Therapy
99
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Posted - 2016.01.12 00:11:15 -
[3665] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:We'll have to wait until returning 3-monthers stop loggin in now that the fun is moving to low and null only, and then let their subscriptions lapse around March.
Jeezo, can you not just give it a rest? If you hate Eve this much, just send me your stuff and leave already.
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Solecist Project
Little Fat Mexican Appreciation Society
31323
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Posted - 2016.01.12 00:15:36 -
[3666] - Quote
Poddington Bare wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:We'll have to wait until returning 3-monthers stop loggin in now that the fun is moving to low and null only, and then let their subscriptions lapse around March. Jeezo, can you not just give it a rest? If you hate Eve this much, just send me your stuff and leave already. I'd suggest pointing a certain group at certain someone's actually obvious alts ... ... who are ludicrously easy to spot in OOPE ... ... who certainly keep flying freighters ...........
Oh boy I love my rare black top so much! :D |
Annemariela Antonela
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
179
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Posted - 2016.01.12 00:22:51 -
[3667] - Quote
Always late to parties. :sob:
Oh well. Tears in rain, Tannhauser Gate, etc. Ferris Bueller end credits, yadda yadda. In space no one can hear u quit.
GÇ£Culture is like a smog. To live within it, you must breathe some of it in and, inevitably, be contaminated.GÇ¥
GÇò Richard K. Morgan, Altered Carbon
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Solecist Project
Little Fat Mexican Appreciation Society
31325
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Posted - 2016.01.12 00:24:11 -
[3668] - Quote
Annemariela Antonela wrote:Always late to parties. :sob:
Oh well. Tears in rain, Tannhauser Gate, etc. Ferris Bueller end credits, yadda yadda. In space no one can hear u quit.
*leans head on your shoulder*
:) |
Cartridgexxxx
BALKAN EXPRESS Shadow Cartel
8
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Posted - 2016.01.12 06:04:30 -
[3669] - Quote
Jita Jitara wrote:I think the following might increase interest:
3) kill titans or make them stationary so that they serve a purpose of being a system defense structure rather then to move them about and use them in fleets. 11) Drones should drop loot, same as other npc factions
while the other points made were also genius work, i would just outline these 2 and say...
watch and learn how it's done, CCP ! |
Top Guac
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
103
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Posted - 2016.01.12 06:10:57 -
[3670] - Quote
Cartridgexxxx wrote:Jita Jitara wrote:I think the following might increase interest:
3) kill titans or make them stationary so that they serve a purpose of being a system defense structure rather then to move them about and use them in fleets. 11) Drones should drop loot, same as other npc factions
while the other points made were also genius work, i would just outline these 2 and say... watch and learn how it's done, CCP ! Well, we all know Shadow Cartel use their titans like jump bridges and not pvp ships. No need to force that on everyone else too.
Some people want to pvp in them as well. |
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
4491
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Posted - 2016.01.12 08:04:02 -
[3671] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Poddington Bare wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:We'll have to wait until returning 3-monthers stop loggin in now that the fun is moving to low and null only, and then let their subscriptions lapse around March. Jeezo, can you not just give it a rest? If you hate Eve this much, just send me your stuff and leave already. I'd suggest pointing a certain group at certain someone's actually obvious alts ... ... who are ludicrously easy to spot in OOPE ... ... who certainly keep flying freighters ........... Oh boy I love my rare black top so much! :D
Hi Sherlock, just to make things clear, I've never hidden any alts. I've made quite public that Ishtanchuk Fazmarai is alone on her account, Yiole Gionglao, Indahmawar Fazmarai and Lea-Marie 'Teacup' Nardieu share an alt account, and Cecilia Matilda Fock and Matilda Cecilia Fock share a third account.
CCP Seagull: "EVE should be a universe where the infrastructure you build and fight over is as player driven and dynamic as the EVE market is now".
62% of players: "We're not interested. May we have Plan B, please?"
CCP Seagull: "What Plan B?"
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Solecist Project
Little Fat Mexican Appreciation Society
31332
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Posted - 2016.01.12 08:24:35 -
[3672] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Solecist Project wrote:Poddington Bare wrote:Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:We'll have to wait until returning 3-monthers stop loggin in now that the fun is moving to low and null only, and then let their subscriptions lapse around March. Jeezo, can you not just give it a rest? If you hate Eve this much, just send me your stuff and leave already. I'd suggest pointing a certain group at certain someone's actually obvious alts ... ... who are ludicrously easy to spot in OOPE ... ... who certainly keep flying freighters ........... Oh boy I love my rare black top so much! :D Hi Sherlock, just to make things clear, I've never hidden any alts. I've made quite public that Ishtanchuk Fazmarai is alone on her account, Yiole Gionglao, Indahmawar Fazmarai and Lea-Marie 'Teacup' Nardieu share an alt account, and Cecilia Matilda Fock and Matilda Cecilia Fock share a third account. Yep, *I* certainly know. But most don't actually look into LAGL.
Well, that at least saved people some time. ^_^ |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5695
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Posted - 2016.01.12 11:51:43 -
[3673] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:This confirms my earlier "your vision on PVP is very limited", not to bash or anything but honestly "you can't pvp unless you fly a ship worth billions", "you need T3 to pvp" is hilarious nonsense.
Your ability to grasp my fairly simple English is limited as well, because I've said I Market PvP with billions and I've said you need some "trick" (like in example an appropriately fit T3) to escape those boosted gatecamps.
I don't recall saying anyone NEEDS to fly a billion ship or T3 just to be "enabled" to PvP. In fact I only ever PvPed in Rifters, cruisers, BCs and - seldom - in a Tempest. I have some T3 ships somewhere but they are for exploration and WH stuff.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Solecist Project
Little Fat Mexican Appreciation Society
31343
|
Posted - 2016.01.12 12:18:34 -
[3674] - Quote
Hey Gregor, how're you doing?
How's the weather? |
Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2177
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Posted - 2016.01.13 03:06:07 -
[3675] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Try going solo around in anything with killing ability that it's not some T3 cheat setup, you'll easily get caught and slammed.
What's this then?
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sero Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
100
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Posted - 2016.01.13 09:10:09 -
[3676] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Gregor Parud wrote:I, and others, do just fine soloing or small gang, escaping camps and "instalockers" and no we don't rely on WCS or anything silly like that. Your depiction of EVE PVP isn't necessarily unrealistic but it's kinda defeatist in a "there's nothing that can be done about it" as if you're trying to convince yourself that it's just futile to even try, and thus it's just better to stick to market stuff.
Solo PVP works fine in EVE, it's limited and you will run into problems a lot, but that's the way of niche game play (like how EVE is a niche game to begin with). You just have to agree to the limitations and issues that come with it.
"Market stuff" is actually PvP, every time I get "killed" in PvP I can lose 500M-10 billions (I mostly do long term trading, where money adds), which is well beyond what I'd lose if I played with ships. The "instalock" stuff is not defeatism. Is denouncing an hideously stupid mechanic that scares "non pros" away from PvP. Try going solo around in anything with killing ability that it's not some T3 cheat setup, you'll easily get caught and slammed. If you don't get slammed, then the other guy just sucks at ganking. In comparison, "pathetic ED PvP" is a supreme giant, as you always get a chance when scrambled and one after being scrambled.
Tbh. a lot of ships can escape gatecamps in high and low sec as an example pretty easily. Most T1, navy and pirate frigates can escape those camps without effort (I have both escaped and gatecamped many times). It happens in FW every day. You rarely get caught. Destroyers are more tricky, sometimes I make it, sometimes I do not. Anything bigger with no cloak will be caught.
Most things with mwd+cloak that is not a superslow BS or something will also mostly get away before being decloaked. Decloaking is not as trivial as you think, and depend alot on the distance they decloak at from your tacklers.
Some times you are lucky and manage to burn back to gate.
Strategic bookmarks can also help.
And then we have not discussed the possibility to have a scout at all yet. This is very efficient way to avoid gatecamps. The best way to not get killed in a gatecamp, is to never land in one.
More luck based is holding cloak and hope someone else will decloak in the meantime (has never worked for me though ).
"non pros" can also fly frigates or fit mwd cloak on a drone ship or one with a free utility high, I am sure.
"I'm all for pvp, don't get me wrong. I've ganked in Empire, blobed in low sec. Got T-shirts from every which-where.. But to be forced into a pvp confrontation that I didn't want is wrong ccp." RealFlisker
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5695
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Posted - 2016.01.13 11:54:17 -
[3677] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Try going solo around in anything with killing ability that it's not some T3 cheat setup, you'll easily get caught and slammed. What's this then?
sero Hita wrote: Tbh. a lot of ships can escape gatecamps in high and low sec as an example pretty easily. Most T1, navy and pirate frigates can escape those camps without effort (I have both escaped and gatecamped many times). It happens in FW every day. You rarely get caught. Destroyers are more tricky, sometimes I make it, sometimes I do not. Anything bigger with no cloak will be caught.
Most things with mwd+cloak that is not a superslow BS or something will also mostly get away before being decloaked. Decloaking is not as trivial as you think, and depend alot on the distance they decloak at from your tacklers.
Some times you are lucky and manage to burn back to gate.
I think I explained myself bad. I don't say it's impossible to escape gatecamps, I did that a lot of times myself (well played smartbomb camps are harder, if you didn't know the next gate has one and did not setup appropriate bookmarks in advance).
I am bringing the example from another game, where you can get a "gate camp" but the dynamics give you a proper fighting chance and to use a proper PvP ship to do that.
In EvE if you want to do more than just dart away but want to take the fight, your stabbed / nanoed / whatever ship is not exactly going to stand a lot of chances. That's why I bring the case for T3, because with them you can more or less replicate the (in my opinion, fun) mechanic of getting in a camp and decide to stay and fight back in good terms.
Then, of course, if the gatecamper(s) is bad, you might make it with a BC or BS but I'd hardly would go around looking for sparring with a lone BS, it's too juicy and easily picked target.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Ruune en Gravonere
Running with Dogs Stella Nova
37
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Posted - 2016.01.13 12:17:13 -
[3678] - Quote
So shoot me down but in order for Eve to continue to thrive and maintain its current community/universe it needs new players... Yes CCP needs to retain its loyal core of players as well but without fresh blood inevitably we are on a demographic down turn even if not in numbers then in game time (hell i don't know may be we should market at older/retired people who have much more time on their hands)...
And no one is going to like this but in order to attract a different cohort of players we need to offer a region of hi sec that is uber safe... so that people can work through the mechanics of the game, build skill points, get into the social aspect - we could still recruit these players to our Corps so they get tied into the game but they would only go into what is currently high sec if they choose to
So what I mean is real starter space that would be boring as hell given my interest is pvp and the constant threat of being popped anywhere including high sec... so a small region that is competely under concord control (you'd need to make sure it couldnt be used to subvert isk making in the rest of the universe thats where it all gets complicated i know) so no ganking... vanilla eve if you like... but where we get people hooked so they have the confidence and interest to explore the tougher and real universe that is lord of the flies eve style
And marketing... and more marketing... to get players in through the vanilla route or into the full on in at the deep end that is the eve experience
Yeah vanilla recruits may not stay but we have a lot of people who try and quit without giving the game enough time... do we know why? I have a suspicion that it isnt the game that makes it so hard at the beginning as such its the other players
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Top Guac
Mexican Avacado Syndicate
106
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Posted - 2016.01.13 12:23:41 -
[3679] - Quote
Ruune en Gravonere wrote:So shoot me down but in order for Eve to continue to thrive and maintain its current community/universe it needs new players... Yes CCP needs to retain its loyal core of players as well but without fresh blood inevitably we are on a demographic down turn even if not in numbers then in game time (hell i don't know may be we should market at older/retired people who have much more time on their hands)... And no one is going to like this but in order to attract a different cohort of players we need to offer a region of hi sec that is uber safe... so that people can work through the mechanics of the game, build skill points, get into the social aspect - we could still recruit these players to our Corps so they get tied into the game but they would only go into what is currently high sec if they choose to So what I mean is real starter space that would be boring as hell given my interest is pvp and the constant threat of being popped anywhere including high sec... so a small region that is competely under concord control (you'd need to make sure it couldnt be used to subvert isk making in the rest of the universe thats where it all gets complicated i know) so no ganking... vanilla eve if you like... but where we get people hooked so they have the confidence and interest to explore the tougher and real universe that is lord of the flies eve style And marketing... and more marketing... to get players in through the vanilla route or into the full on in at the deep end that is the eve experience Yeah vanilla recruits may not stay but we have a lot of people who try and quit without giving the game enough time... do we know why? I have a suspicion that it isnt the game that makes it so hard at the beginning as such its the other players Boring as hell space is going to hook new players?
I think not. That'd just drive them away. |
Vivias Xelnoa
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.01.13 13:26:02 -
[3680] - Quote
I need my 'safe space' :P. In all seriousness I've been playing in Hi-Sec without any issues for the last month as I've been gathering material and training skills. Feels pretty safe to me. |
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Kaivar Lancer
Placid Peace Corps
709
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Posted - 2016.01.13 13:26:33 -
[3681] - Quote
Alot of people are leaving Elite Dangerous. Might be a good time for CCP to stand on Frontier's throat and start an anti-Elite marketing campaign. This may help stop the decline from turning into rapid. |
Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13332
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Posted - 2016.01.13 13:28:20 -
[3682] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
I think I explained myself bad. I don't say it's impossible to escape gatecamps, I did that a lot of times myself (well played smartbomb camps are harder, if you didn't know the next gate has one and did not setup appropriate bookmarks in advance).
I am bringing the example from another game, where you can get a "gate camp" but the dynamics give you a proper fighting chance and to use a proper PvP ship to do that.
In EvE if you want to do more than just dart away but want to take the fight, your stabbed / nanoed / whatever ship is not exactly going to stand a lot of chances. That's why I bring the case for T3, because with them you can more or less replicate the (in my opinion, fun) mechanic of getting in a camp and decide to stay and fight back in good terms.
Then, of course, if the gatecamper(s) is bad, you might make it with a BC or BS but I'd hardly would go around looking for sparring with a lone BS, it's too juicy and easily picked target.
The problem you have is that you gave up trying, declared that a thing was impossible (this is usually done to salve one's ego) and now stick to the wrong conclusion because you're invested in it.
Since when is a Vexor a BC, BC of T3?
And OH WOW, did CCP sneak in some T3 haulers? Nope this solo pvp NEREUS is a tech1 ship
Same with this Exequror. And this other guy does it all the time in cruisers and frigs.
You can go on trying to compare the situation to some other game that lets you opt out of the entire universe while still letting you gain rewards, but again the reality is that you are complaining about a game situation that is actually a you situation instead.
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Reiisha
Repracor Industries
780
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Posted - 2016.01.13 13:41:51 -
[3683] - Quote
Heck, i'll just post it again.
EVE needs more active game systems and less passive game systems.
Unless something is done about the way the current systems work (you don't need to actually be online to operate most of them), new players will see empty space, game mechanics which require little to no input and as a result, not a lot of actual activity for them to engage in.
If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7061
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Posted - 2016.01.13 15:23:08 -
[3684] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Heck, i'll just post it again.
EVE needs more active game systems and less passive game systems.
Unless something is done about the way the current systems work (you don't need to actually be online to operate most of them), new players will see empty space, game mechanics which require little to no input and as a result, not a lot of actual activity for them to engage in. QFT.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13334
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Posted - 2016.01.13 15:53:45 -
[3685] - Quote
Reiisha wrote:Heck, i'll just post it again.
EVE needs more active game systems and less passive game systems.
Unless something is done about the way the current systems work (you don't need to actually be online to operate most of them), new players will see empty space, game mechanics which require little to no input and as a result, not a lot of actual activity for them to engage in.
Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".
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Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
37
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:01:30 -
[3686] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".
Exploration hacking mini game.
Check out mining in Galaxy On Fire 2;
http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/538192-galaxy-on-fire-2-ipad-screenshot-mining-mini-game-try-to-keep.png
How about mining has an active interface? Instead of watching a cycling module, play a mini-game. Pay no attention to it? Same as current yield. Pay attention? +10% - +20% yield.
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Fa Xian
Furious Timewasters
37
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:06:02 -
[3687] - Quote
Fa Xian wrote:Jenn aSide wrote: Give an example of what you mean by "active game systems".
Exploration hacking mini game.
This really shouldn't be underestimate in terms of brilliant EVE design.
It engages instead of making you wait. It distracts, making you PVP content for others. It scales. It uses player skill.
I suspect container spew was a prototype for mining ideas - it would have made more sense there.
Missions are already active.
Trading and manufacturing could use some help. |
SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
1516
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:46:57 -
[3688] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Alot of people are leaving Elite Dangerous. Might be a good time for CCP to stand on Frontier's throat and start an anti-Elite marketing campaign. This may help stop the decline from turning into rapid.
Implying that a lot of people were ever playing Elite Dangerous in the first place.
"Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
13334
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:54:13 -
[3689] - Quote
As long as it isn't mandatory, i don't have a problem with that. But personally I like EVE's "press button and wait" features like how hacking used to be (I don't mine). It's in keeping with the idea that we are the CAPTAINS of our ships (and thus not to be disturbed from our important sipping of Earl Grey Tea by menial tasks such hacking and deciding how to dismantle a space rock, we have "people" for such things lol).
Usually, people asking for more 'manual' stuff (like wanting to fly their ships with joysticks lol) would be happier in one of the Space "pilot" games, again, EVE is a game of Captains. People who want to be mere pilots should play ED or wait for Star Citizen and No Man's sky.
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Gregor Parud
Ordo Ardish
2186
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Posted - 2016.01.13 16:55:17 -
[3690] - Quote
SurrenderMonkey wrote:Kaivar Lancer wrote:Alot of people are leaving Elite Dangerous. Might be a good time for CCP to stand on Frontier's throat and start an anti-Elite marketing campaign. This may help stop the decline from turning into rapid. Implying that a lot of people were ever playing Elite Dangerous in the first place.
I got the expensive beta pack when I had the chance so I have free updates, played it a bit in the beginning but soon realised how hilariously shallow that game is. Picked it up again a few days ago played for 3 days and gave up, there's nothing there other than dreams and cool visuals. |
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