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Author |
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Whitehound
2882
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:00:44 -
[601] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Yes, there is. The track you are running on, the finishing line you are crossing, the clock and the rules defining the victor are all part of the environment. GǪbut they're not the competition. Have you ever run 100m? Or a Marathon? Do the later and tell me you did not compete against the environment when you ran 42km and the road makes your feet hurt.
You actually have to get up from your computer and move your feet if you wanted to run. Say Hello to gravity for me when you try to get out of your chair.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3631
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:00:55 -
[602] - Quote
Now, about those "declining numbers". Concurrent users, averaged over a week or more:
Last week: 20K Last 2 weeks: 20K Last month: 21K Last 3 months 24K Last 5 months: 25K Best week (in early 2013) 36K
So we are not down by half from the best, but its close. But; that best includes more botters than we have now, and more key broadcasters than we have now, as CCP has cracked down on both in the interim. Lately, eve has not been dropping, but has been relatively stable.
Note that its hard to get data from periods longer than 5 months from the eve-offline site. For some reason Chribba's averaging algorithm changes for periods of 6 months, and gives results inconsistent with shorter periods.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25842
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:03:41 -
[603] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Have you ever run 100m? Or a Marathon? Fun fact: the track is not competing against you in either. In fact, it doesn't do anything GÇö it's a track.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24946
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:08:32 -
[604] - Quote
Aaron wrote:@ Jenn You misunderstood me Jenn, please go back and read my posts. Aaron wrote:Ok Here is my 2 cents worth.
Too many Eve players are bullies and you pick on weaker pilots till they get frustrated with the game and leave. I wish more of you would consider that your own actions contribute to people leaving.
This is a dark and brutal experience where there is no sympathy for anything, not everyone can handle this vibe so be mindful of this when you want to blame CCP for numbers dropping.
I am not complaining about dark and brutal, I like it and enjoy avoiding it or finding tactics to counter it. I've prepared a small role play to push my point further;
Noob: You killed my exhumer, it took ages for me to grind for that.
Ganker: Who gives a ****, go and play WOW, or hello kitty online.
Noob: Ok I will, Bye.
This is the norm in Eve, accept that your actions have consequence and accept that it is partly you who shapes the game and affects numbers. I have no problem with brutal and dark and Eve being rife with bullies, as I said in previous posts I enjoy avoiding it and finding tactics to survive. My point is that the same people who are here crying about numbers dropping are the same ones who bully noobs, pve'ers etc. What I am saying is that bullying and trolling whine forums has a consequence, It has made people leave. I'm only saying for the bullies and trolls to accept this and not come on here crying because numbers are dropping. You seem to be using the word bully out of context, using superior strength and influence to intimidate others is within the rules of the game and is a recognised activity that is encouraged by game mechanics.
While it certainly fits the real life definition of bully; in the context of Eve, its rules and mechanics and the general ambience of the game that definition is largely irrelevant and has no meaning. When people take that activity out of the context of the game is when it becomes bullying.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Whitehound
2882
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:09:18 -
[605] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Have you ever run 100m? Or a Marathon? Fun fact: the track is not competing against you in either. In fact, it doesn't do anything GÇö it's a track. If it is not doing anything then why does it require energy to run 100m?
Or is your mother driving you along the 100m track by any chance?
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
16
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:09:22 -
[606] - Quote
"Competitive PVE" sounds like people seeing who can get the highest score in space invaders. The Eve market you might compete to see who can get the highest score (Isk) from selling items. This is two real people trying to sell imaginary items to other real people and win by selling more. Sounds like PvP to me.
Hahaha, "Competitive PVE", that just sounds silly :) |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
132
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:10:00 -
[607] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Yes, there is. The track you are running on, the finishing line you are crossing, the clock and the rules defining the victor are all part of the environment. GǪbut they're not the competition. Have you ever run 100m? Or a Marathon? Do the later and tell me you did not compete against the environment when you ran 42km and the road made your feet hurt and bleed. You actually have to get up from your computer and move your feet if you wanted to run. Say Hello to gravity for me when you try to get out of your chair.
I used to run, hardest was probably a half marathon.
You compete against the environment, your own limitations, time and other competitors. |
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
253
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:10:37 -
[608] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Nobody is whining about new players leaving the game due to being faced with the harsh environment of EVE. This has always been the case, and will always be the case.
Not just new players, older players too. PVe'ers, and miners.
And forgive me for reading the title of this thread properly. the OP is talking about decline in numbers so that is what I will talk about.
Now you're going to tell me the harsh environment does not affect people right? Face it, too many of you have alienated lots of our older players and at the same time made it impossible for new players to get a foothold on anything.
My eyes are open man. I remember a thread where someone posted about another player calling him a child molester he was upset by being called this and nobody had any sympathy whatsoever. He was told to stop playing by lots of people, so he took their advice and did that. 1000s of people have had similar problems and guess what? Most of them have left.
I like a dark and harsh environment.
Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25843
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:14:35 -
[609] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:If it is not doing anything then why does it require energy to run 100m? Because that's something you're doing: running. The track isn't GÇö it's just a track. It is not competing against you; other people are (or, at best, you're competing against yourselfGǪ but that's still PvP since you are both GÇ£playersGÇ¥).
If your 100m or marathon turns into PvE, you should probably talk to the organisers and ask them to post shooters to keep the bears and tigers off the trackGǪ
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Whitehound
2882
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:18:44 -
[610] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:If it is not doing anything then why does it require energy to run 100m? Because that's something you're doing: running. The track isn't GÇö it's just a track. It is not competing against you; other people are (or, at best, you're competing against yourselfGǪ but that's still PvP since you are both GÇ£playersGÇ¥). While in real life your body always fights against gravity does the environment in competitive PvE not necessarily have to compete against you. You and another player might just be engaged in a race of flower picking and the one with the most flowers wins.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12290
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:22:34 -
[611] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Whitehound] If your 100m or marathon turns into PvE, you should probably talk to the organisers and ask them to post shooters to keep the bears and tigers off the trackGǪ
OMG that would be awesome, it would make marathons actually interesting to watch. The Kenyans would still win, but what can you do?
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25845
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:22:35 -
[612] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:While in real life your body always fights against gravity GǪgravity isn't competing in the race either.
Quote:You and another player might just be engaged in a race of flower picking and the one with the most flowers wins. Yes, that would be your bog-standard PvP over resources.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12290
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:25:34 -
[613] - Quote
Whitehound wrote: While in real life your body always fights against gravity
This thread is now about fat people. |
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
253
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:25:58 -
[614] - Quote
Some of you have a very nasty attitude man. People have placed cans in systems I've been in calling me racist names, My family has been insulted. I've been told to go have sex with my sister. I've been camped for 3 years of my game and I'm still here because I have a strong mind.
I remember 1 dude telling me someone had even insulted his dead brother. This thread will get closed or my posts could be deleted because I am not afraid to tell you about the game as I have experienced it.
Talking to people in the way I mentioned above will have a serious effect on some people and the game in general, people will leave and never come back. MAN UP!! and deal with it and accept that some of our players actions have contributed to players leaving.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
24
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:26:23 -
[615] - Quote
There is no PVP ... EVE is dyingGäó.
Now I see from where CODE people take that bull about "When you win you lose, when you lose you lose, CODE always wins.".
There are a whole lot of people who goes by that reasoning.
And that is true:
I saw a lot of people leaving EVE and a lot of people not even trying EVE for that precise reason.
I dont care about that and I think CCP should either, but lie about that is below the belt.
Recently I've watched some live transmissions from Markee Dragon, and in the chat box a lot of people comment on the fact that if people in EVE werent so creepy and scary, they would try the game.
I am happy they dont, and I like the way EVE shape its community. But again, there is no use to lie about that.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32254
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:26:30 -
[616] - Quote
After a housing market analogy derail, this thread will be foreclosed before I get home to reply using a keyboard.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11543
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:26:32 -
[617] - Quote
Hahaha, this is ridiculous.
The hound is soo far gone I don't think "wrong" even applys anymore.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24948
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:26:53 -
[618] - Quote
Aaron wrote:I remember a thread where someone posted about another player calling him a child molester he was upset by being called this and nobody had any sympathy whatsoever. Do you know why people had no sympathy? The player in question has repeatedly tried to intimidate people in various fashions over the years, he's also a well known troll, terrible shitposter and a massive manchild. He also failed to provide any proof whatsoever of the accusations he was making.
Quote: He was told to stop playing by lots of people, so he took their advice and did that. 1000s of people have had similar problems and guess what? Most of them have left. Guess what, despite his promise to never come back and his tear filled rants on external gaming sites, he still plays. He's quit at least twice in a massive self induced drama fest that I know of, and he's still a shitposting troll of a manchild.
Quote:Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror. I can think of at least 1 significant factor in dropping PCU numbers, which is the work of CCP.
At least 50% of the people you claim that we treat like crap came into Eve believing it would be WoW, or the equivalent, in space; they expected separate PvE worlds where they are not subject to PvP. They left when they found this to be a false impression.
Quote:Some of you have a very nasty attitude man. People have placed cans in systems I've been in calling me racist names, My family has been insulted. I've been told to go have sex with my sister. I've been camped for 3 years of my game and I'm still here because I have a strong mind.
I remember 1 dude telling me someone had even insulted his dead brother. This thread will get closed or my posts could be deleted because I am not afraid to tell you about the game as I have experienced it.
Talking to people in the way I mentioned above will have a serious effect on some people and the game in general, people will leave and never come back. MAN UP!! and deal with it and accept that some of our players actions have contributed to players leaving. Have you ever considered that you may be at least partially responsible for the experiences you've had?
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Salvos Rhoska
1302
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:26:58 -
[619] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror.
As I said.
Nobody is whining about new (or old) players leaving the game due to being faced with the harsh environment of EVE.
This has always been the case, and will always be the case.
------------
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Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
402
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:29:50 -
[620] - Quote
After slogging through several pages of this thread, one theme has emerged: the definition of PVP vs PVE. This is in no way helpful to the topic. And as usual in EvE, there are wildly polarized opinions with intractable positions that are perfectly justifiable in the minds of their owners, with no room for open mindedness or compromise. I'm sure I will be flamed merely for not accepting a highly polarized opinion.
Me and two other corp mates came back to EvE after a long hiatus only to find radically reduced population numbers. So much so that our cyno alts are almost never threatened, as a gauge. We met CODE after a few days and once we knew of their existence, studied up and found their manifesto and their "take it up the ass and state you like it or make it onto our **** list" practice. Everything they do is within the rules, and I dare say, is likely supported by CCP. We operate in CODE territory with impunity basically because I don't think they understand the concept of showing up with enough alpha to beat the Concord timer. Yes, we are on their **** list and they follow us all over the map, oh, except into low/null sec. They are not a threat.
Now, I am in a gaming group and we play a broad array of games, from D&D to board games, to Diablo III to EvE. Without exception, the non-EvE players think CODE's manifesto is Internet bullying and should be prosecuted as such. The EvE players among us will not disagree. So I need to ask, if my extended group of highly experienced gamers and hardcore PvPers thinks CODE qualifies for Internet bullying, then I would think many other gamers do too, especially those new to EvE who have met up with CODE the hard way. Who can possibly think that this kind of perception among non-EvE-centric gamers would lead to expanding populations?
I am not blaming CODE totally, but this kind of thing certainly contributes to low population. Many will not even consider EvE just hearing about this "fair" bullying and the EvE created term "Bully Corps". Great! Bullying by design. Others rage quit upon experiencing it. And I read many in this thread saying "good riddance" and "we are better off without them". Okay, cool. Then enjoy the low population, and stop wondering why.
Now add in the typical down time faux pas that CCP is famous for and the negative perception is sealed.
One way or the other, arguing over the definition of PVP vs PVE will not solve anything and is a waste of time and intellectual energy.
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
24
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:32:26 -
[621] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Aaron wrote:Most of you should stop contradicting yourselves and just accept that the community is partly responsible for numbers dropping, It is silly to treat 1000s of people like **** and then cry on the forum when they've left. Stop blaming CCP for everything and look in the mirror. As I said. Nobody is whining about new (or old) players leaving the game due to being faced with the harsh environment of EVE. This has always been the case, and will always be the case.
We players dont really care how many or how long players stay in EVE. We players dont really care in having a big family community in EVE. We players dont really profit from the number of people in EVE.
IF CCP that is the one who does is not giving a flying crap, why should we ?
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25846
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:34:22 -
[622] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Do you know why people had no sympathy? The player in question has repeatedly tried to intimidate people in various fashions over the years, he's also a well known troll, terrible shitposter and a massive manchild. He also failed to provide any proof whatsoever of the accusations he was making. To be fair, he did provide proof that he was breaking the same rules he accused the other guy of breaking and was initially angry about how he had been slapped on the wrist for doing so.
So you forgot to add GÇ£ridiculously self-important hypocriteGÇ¥ to the list.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Yockerbow
Aliastra Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:34:26 -
[623] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:I would agree with this sentiment except for the fact that for years eve increased its subs and online user numbers while still being a harsh place. In fact, that was eve's niche and how it was marketed. As soon as the current crop of devs decided to say "f-it! we are going after the causal player," things started to fall apart. The casual player is fickle and they have lots of choices for games with solid pve. In fact most games out there have better pve then eve. CCP has started driving away its core players, but is still unable to bring in and keep causal players in sufficient numbers to offset the decline. While it may be counter intuitive - CCPs best chance to increase subs again is to embrace its past, to go back to being a hardcore niche game.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Most of the people I've known who came to EVE and stayed came for exactly that niche; those just checking out another kid-gloves MMO usually don't stick around long, and likely won't stick around very long regardless of how the game is changed.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:38:22 -
[624] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:
We players dont really care how many or how long players stay in EVE. We players dont really care in having a big family community in EVE. We players dont really profit from the number of people in EVE.
IF CCP that is the one who does is not giving a flying crap, why should we ?
Maybe CCP gives a huge crap which is why for past few years the entire focus has been about making eve challenging, engaging and more available to new players. How do we know they don't give a crap? The level of engagement from the devs over the past while has shown they give a crap and are taking it personally. I cannot thing of many other games in which the developers are this in touch with player base.
Sometimes they do things counter to what current players want. Why? Cause they need new players. You cannot survive by only trying to keep the existing customer base. There can be a time where you actually have to tell them tough luck just to keep the business alive.
I laugh when vets whine about no content for them and that CCP was putting so much effort into the NPE. Why would CCP invest into keeping one account when they can make changes that will bring in two new ones? New players are our content. We want it all being improved from ground up. |
Whitehound
2882
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:38:35 -
[625] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:You and another player might just be engaged in a race of flower picking and the one with the most flowers wins. Yes, that would be your bog-standard PvP over resources. No, it is commonly called competitive PvE.
I then refuse to see flower picking to be the same as fighting in space ships. And a trader who does not undock, but just sits safely at his station will also never get the same respect as a player who engages in actual fighting.
I do not even know why anyone would want to make such a generalization when one can make distinctions.
So dig your own hole if you so desperately wish to be recognized as a PvPer, Tippia. I am not going to help you out.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Jenn aSide
Ascendent. Test Alliance Please Ignore
12293
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:39:49 -
[626] - Quote
Aaron wrote:Some of you have a very nasty attitude man. People have placed cans in systems I've been in calling me racist names, My family has been insulted. I've been told to go have sex with my sister. I've been camped for 3 years of my game and I'm still here because I have a strong mind.
Is that all. I used to be a member of NCDOT. Here is a picture of me at a NCDOT gathering. The bald guy is Vince.
Did you not know that the internet is a harsh place? You can play the victim or you can ignore ti and actually enjoy life. Players who can't do that much should be here, and the idea that there leaving is some kind of loss is insane.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24951
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:41:56 -
[627] - Quote
Urgg Boolean wrote:Now, I am in a gaming group and we play a broad array of games, from D&D to board games, to Diablo III to EvE. Without exception, the non-EvE players think CODE's manifesto is Internet bullying and should be prosecuted as such. The EvE players among us will not disagree. So I need to ask, if my extended group of highly experienced gamers and hardcore PvPers thinks CODE qualifies for Internet bullying, then I would think many other gamers do too, especially those new to EvE who have met up with CODE the hard way. Who can possibly think that this kind of perception among non-EvE-centric gamers would lead to expanding populations? In most other games it would be considered bullying, in Eve it is by design. Here you're either predator or prey, if you fall into the prey category you have two choices, be smart prey, or be dumb prey.
Quote:I am not blaming CODE totally, but this kind of thing certainly contributes to low population. Many will not even consider EvE just hearing about this "fair" bullying and the EvE created term "Bully Corps". Great! Bullying by design. Others rage quit upon experiencing it. And I read many in this thread saying "good riddance" and "we are better off without them". Okay, cool. Then enjoy the low population, and stop wondering why. I'm the guy who said good riddance, and for good reason. I certainly don't want to play a game with people who threaten to burn down my house, kill my dog, mutilate my mother and sexually molest any children I may have simply because their internet spaceship pixels exploded.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
25
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:42:39 -
[628] - Quote
Markus Reese wrote:Malt Zedong wrote:
We players dont really care how many or how long players stay in EVE. We players dont really care in having a big family community in EVE. We players dont really profit from the number of people in EVE.
IF CCP that is the one who does is not giving a flying crap, why should we ?
Maybe CCP gives a huge crap which is why for past few years the entire focus has been about making eve challenging, engaging and more available to new players. How do we know they don't give a crap? The level of engagement from the devs over the past while has shown they give a crap and are taking it personally. I cannot thing of many other games in which the developers are this in touch with player base. Sometimes they do things counter to what current players want. Why? Cause they need new players. You cannot survive by only trying to keep the existing customer base. There can be a time where you actually have to tell them tough luck just to keep the business alive. I laugh when vets whine about no content for them and that CCP was putting so much effort into the NPE. Why would CCP invest into keeping one account when they can make changes that will bring in two new ones? New players are our content. We want it all being improved from ground up.
I dont really agree with your conclusion, but your premisse is right, CCP does have endured to make EVE more challenging and engaging. But all they done was further more dig into the niche market they are, which are in no way publically liked and accept as a form of game.
Most of the changes are made to please and keep the current playerbase and very little was made to actually keep a diversified kind of new players.
EVE is like a prison, you only stay here if you are someone's female dog or you find someone to be your female dog.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
485
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:42:56 -
[629] - Quote
I ignore it as well, but I find it sad that there are people who want to be part of that attitude. It is why I have zero respect for some of these big alliances or those that are part of em. If a person chooses to socialize with that crowd, well, I ignore em too. Forums I chat in because they are discussions about issues. |
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
254
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:43:53 -
[630] - Quote
OMG, most of you think were playing Hello Kitty online.
For gods sake open your eyes. Eve is not an environment for normal people, Eve is a place where very nasty things WILL be said to you. Some people are good at ignoring it, Some people are not. For some of you to think that all the nasty stuff thats said by players does not have an effect is odd.
Lots of you lack the knowledge and awareness of what Eve is really like in some places.
I can also remember 1 dude who was a fireman in RL being told to go die in a fire because he disagreed with an in-game issue, He was a good player and got involved with lots of things and had fun, guess what he's left now.
Man up! HTFU! and accept the truth that some eve players are nasty and have had hand in making numbers drop significantly.
Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
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