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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
500
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:33:40 -
[961] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote: But what you're saying is that people should just choose to not be the victim of a crime. Like someone shooting you in the chest or raping you in an alley is something you have the option of avoiding. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that in EVE you can't avoid being hyperdunked, but to suggest that in real life you can simply opt to never be the victim of a crime is a whole new level of stupidity.
You can however choose not to walk through a war torn country with signs brandishing racial slurs or through some slum waving around large amounts of cash....
We are trying to think of eve as a civil and happy place. It isn't Remember this is a system where two whole factions (minmatar and caldari) were driven from their homes under gunpoint. It is a place where racial tensions are deep. It is lawless as you get away from these corps. People commit crimes in eve, and are punished. But if you are out in the hood, might take a bit before the police can respond, if safe to at all.
That said, the punishments for empire crime could be a bit sterner and more lasting. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25882
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:34:00 -
[962] - Quote
It is, isn't it, especially since it proves you wrong aboutGǪ ohGǪ almost everything. It does so so completely that it's not even really a GǣtryGǥ any more, but rather a GǣsuccessGǥ.
Quote:While your google skills are strong, I don't see this as being anywhere similar to Hyperdunking That's because that wasn't the question. What you're doing here is engaging in yet another fallacy called GÇ£moving the goalpostsGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Whitehound
2884
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Posted - 2015.09.01 20:34:16 -
[963] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:... How does a limited anonymity factor in the whole thing not being PvP. I could play a shooter or a racing game, where everyone is anonymous. As long as we're competing against each other and not against AI it is PvP.
As for not losing on the market ... that was explained already. No need to see an explosion to lose ISK on the market. The point is to make a distinction between competitive PvE and PvP. The anonymity is what removes the identification of players. You know there are other players acting on the market, but you do not know who they are or where they are. You then do not think of the lottery as PvP just because you know it has lots of people in it who are all trying to win, do you?
Of course can you throw away your ISKs, trash your ship or lose it to an NPC. The loss alone does not make it PvP. Only when the loss was caused to you by another player is it PvP. If you then did something on the market that caused you a loss is it only self-inflicted (you never really wanted it anyway), but was not caused by another player. You got what you have asked for, which is fair and not a loss.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9212
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:35:57 -
[964] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:Update on the issue of CONCORD evasion as related to some in this thread:
Exploit Notification - Delaying CONCORD Response 2015-09-01 16:45 By CCP Falcon We would like to inform players that distracting CONCORD by jettisoning ships into space to distract them from attacking the perpetrator of a criminal act is now considered an exploit. As of the date and time stamp of this message, this practice is now considered an abuse of the criminal flagging system, and will be actioned as an exploit under our suspension and ban policy. http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/exploit-notification-delaying-concord-response/ Bringing current and relevant info directly quoted from CCP into a thread like this?
Have you no shame, Salvos? I'm petitioning to get you a six hour time out. Use it to think carefully about your attempt to use facts in a troll thread.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25883
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:36:43 -
[965] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:The point is to make a distinction between competitive PvE and PvP. The anonymity is what removes the identification of players. GǪwhich doesn't in any way disqualify it from being PvP. Anonymous or not, they're still players, not AI-controlled entities, so there's still no PvE to compete in or over.
If you want to make a distinction between GÇ£competitive PvEGÇ¥ and PvP, it helps if you actually try to include some PvE in the first part.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
24
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:39:26 -
[966] - Quote
Throth wrote:Odie McCracken wrote:Throth wrote:For the nubs that pretend to have been around Eve from the beginning and pretend that suicide ganking was there from the start contrary to what I said, the first Eve post mentioning it was mid 2006 on the old forums - years after I was playing Eve... just like I said. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=303483 2004 would like a word with you http://www.eve-search.com/thread/74718-0/page/1 Edit - interesting how many of the replies to that thread are similar to what is said today. Some things never change Nice try. CCP quickly fixed it in the next expansion. While it happened without my knowledge when I was playing, it wasn't for long, and seemed to only affect the players that hung out in Yulai according to every post I can find searching kamikestrel. While your google skills are strong, I don't see this as being anywhere similar to Hyperdunking, and is still referencing the era where CCP fought against suicide ganks and exploits - not where they started to allow them later. https://namamai.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/missiles-in-early-eve-and-cruise-missile-kestrels/
They rebalanced missles in the next expansion, that wasn't to fix suicide kessies. I'll definitely agree that is nowhere near hyperdunking, but then freighters didn't even exist back then.
Once the missles were changed, people switched it up to heavy missle caracals, they adapted. Nowhere in there was CCP trying to curb suicide ganking. They've always allowed it, hell it used to be that you could tank Concord and get away after killing someone in high sec.
Again, my very simple point is that CCP always allowed suicide ganking. I'd say they've been fighting an uphill battle of trying to balance the whiners vs what they see as their vision of their game.
Sure Hyperdunking kicked it up a notch, no argument there. By the look of things that just got hit with a change though having never done it myself I don't know how it will be affected.
Anyway my point, as ever, is that suicide ganking has always and will always be a thing in Eve. It may take many forms, undergo many changes, but at the heart people are still getting blown up in high sec. Cool
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25883
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:43:39 -
[967] - Quote
Odie McCracken wrote:Sure Hyperdunking kicked it up a notch, no argument there. By the look of things that just got hit with a change though having never done it myself I don't know how it will be affected. It won't. What they just outlawed was an evolved version that's designed to cut down on the number of damage ships used (and thus on cost and complexity), and instead sacrifice a crapton of worthless decoys.
Hyperdunking continues as before, and is still an unusually harmless single-player version of the regular fleet-based gank (unusually harmless exactly because and as a direct consequence of the whole single-player bit).
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Whitehound
2884
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:44:55 -
[968] - Quote
Tippia wrote:[quote=Whitehound]The point is to make a distinction between competitive PvE and PvP. ... Where is the proof that you have lost or won? Over whom did you win or who made you lose?
I want names, dates and numbers or it did not happen.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25883
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:45:51 -
[969] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Where is the proof that you have lost or won? Over whom did you win or who made you lose? At what?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1520
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:46:06 -
[970] - Quote
Britney Fears wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Uhhh wut? Is that hyperdunking or just something similar? It reads like it's something different to be honest. It bans hyperdunking in a way, but in essence it is more a nerf It does not affect hyperdunking. It does ban pre-flooding the grid with ships so that when you go criminal the CONCORD spawns are overwhelmed and take much longer before finally destroying your currently occupied ship. Hyperdunking does not rely on delaying CONCORD in this way, or at all.
Superhyperdunking indeed. I hope Globby spends a little more time before naming his next innovation.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
500
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:46:20 -
[971] - Quote
Whitehound wrote: The point is to make a distinction between competitive PvE and PvP. The anonymity is what removes the identification of players. You know there are other players acting on the market, but you do not know who they are or where they are. You then do not think of the lottery as PvP just because you know it has lots of people in it who are all trying to win, do you?
Of course can you throw away your ISKs, trash your ship or lose it to an NPC. The loss alone does not make it PvP. Only when the loss was caused to you by another player is it PvP. If you then did something on the market that caused you a loss is it only self-inflicted (you never really wanted it anyway), but was not caused by another player.
.... this is still going on? You are misunderstanding competitive pvp being indirect.
Indirect competition means that your result has no effect on the other person's attempt. Time trials and such. That is considered Competitive PvE. You are going against the environment. Take said results and compare. Example of Competitive PvE in eve is when me and my buddies would compare bounty ticks. We would run a leader board of who would get the most bounty payout in a tick.
Markets, I change my sell/buy order values, it affects your ability to buy/sell items. I am directly affecting you, one player to another. It is a direct response. I lower my selling price, you stop selling items. Direct response. If you sell elsewhere, you are in a different area is all. Player vs Player. PvP is not restricted to kills and losses. It is simply Player! vs! Player! They are not on isolated environments where the final score is the only thing compared. It is one field, competing for resources.
I really don't know how much more clear it can get? For the rest of you debating it, if it continues, I really say to drop it. Any more debate is an attempt to troll or just the most stubborn ignorance I have encountered. |
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
362
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:50:44 -
[972] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:... How does a limited anonymity factor in the whole thing not being PvP. I could play a shooter or a racing game, where everyone is anonymous. As long as we're competing against each other and not against AI it is PvP.
As for not losing on the market ... that was explained already. No need to see an explosion to lose ISK on the market. The point is to make a distinction between competitive PvE and PvP. The anonymity is what removes the identification of players. You know there are other players acting on the market, but you do not know who they are or where they are. You then do not think of the lottery as PvP just because you know it has lots of people in it who are all trying to win, do you? Of course can you throw away your ISKs, trash your ship or lose it to an NPC. The loss alone does not make it PvP. Only when the loss was caused to you by another player is it PvP. If you then did something on the market that caused you a loss is it only self-inflicted (you never really wanted it anyway), but was not caused by another player. You got what you have asked for, which is fair and not a loss.
Lottery = 100% chance based . It's neither PvP nor PvE. Even if I knew all contestants, it wouldn't change a thing. What next on your list ? Beauty pageants ?
We have explained how one trader can manipulate the market or deny trades ... not going over this again.
Have you been around when some miners needed to have explained to them that the minerals they mined are not free just because they didn't spend isk to get them ? This discussion reminds me a lot of that. Opportunity cost is real.
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Whitehound
2884
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:51:43 -
[973] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:Where is the proof that you have lost or won? Over whom did you win or who made you lose? At what? What do you think we are talking about, Tippia? You have been replying to me all day. Did you already forget?
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25883
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:54:25 -
[974] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:What do you think we are talking about, Tippia? We were talking about how your supposed competitive PvE had no PvE in it, at which point you started asking completely unrelated and incoherent questions that need to be clarified.
So clarify them by answering the question: at what?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
573
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 20:55:59 -
[975] - Quote
I am starting to think Whitehound is merely trolling to get this thread locked and dropped off the front page. I know when I have won in my market niche: the opponent stops undercutting my prices and my margins return to normal. |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32255
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:02:23 -
[976] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Just cancelled an account due for renewal in less than two weeks.
Will pay $60 to transfer the characters to active accounts. Ouch,
Won't affect the CUC at all. This strikes me as interesting since the $20 option is now better than the 2 PLEX option.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Whitehound
2884
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:08:25 -
[977] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:Lottery = 100% chance based . It's neither PvP nor PvE. Even if I knew all contestants, it wouldn't change a thing. What next on your list ? Beauty pageants ?
We have explained how one trader can manipulate the market or deny trades ... not going over this again.
Have you been around when some miners needed to have explained to them that the minerals they mined are not free just because they didn't spend isk to get them ? This discussion reminds me a lot of that. Opportunity cost is real.
Lottery is PvE, because the random event is usually an event within the environment (a spinning wheel, bouncing balls, etc.).
In market trading can players only improve upon their own position and only one player gets the best spot (not necessarily as players can choose different stations and market hubs are not always the best place, still ...). When a buyer will buy your items or when a competitor changes their orders is also chance based. There is no guarantee for a sell order to always go through.
For simplicity, let's assume only one player at a time can make a sale and that in a lottery there was only one winning ticket. How would you say is market trading different from a lottery with regards to PvP?
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
|
Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
362
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:12:40 -
[978] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Tippia wrote:[quote=Whitehound]The point is to make a distinction between competitive PvE and PvP. ... Where is the proof that you have lost or won? Over whom did you win or who made you lose? I want names, dates and numbers or it did not happen.
Sorry, I have to protect my sources. I need to call my lawyer. I'm not saying anything without my lawyer.
Back on topic:
Winning / Losing doesn't always take a binary form of either winning or else losing. In war you can win a battle and lose the war.
For the market it's easier to imagine a backwater system low-sec, null-sec ... rather then Jita. Remember the example I gave with me selling shuttles in low-sec ? Me, selling all the shuttles I had on the market and then denying sales to the guy who had bought and relisted them ... I think that's a clear win for me.
There are billionaires who manage to do the same in an actual market-hub.
Basicall every profitable sale you make = you win every profitable sale somebody else makes, by offering below your price = you lose, they win every unprofitable sale you make = you lose even more
Keep in mind that you don't have to get scammed or type in a zero to many or to few. It's enough to overestimate demand or underestimate other traders capacity to list sell orders below your price or buy orders above your price.
If you don't believe us, head over to market discussions and as them
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25883
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:13:31 -
[979] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Lottery is PvE, because the random event is usually an event within the environment (a spinning wheel, bouncing balls, etc.) No, lottery is lottery GÇö you're not competing against anything (except maybe the lottery company's greed, but honestly, it's not a competition GÇö they've already won by design).
Quote:In market trading can players only improve upon their own position and only one player gets the best spot (not necessarily as players can choose different stations and market hubs are not always the best place, still ...). GǪand this competition between players makes it 100% PvP, since there is no GǣenvironmentGǥ (i.e. AI) part involved.
Quote:How would you say is market trading different from a lottery with regards to PvP? Market trading is a competition between players; a lottery is not a competition. This further demonstrates why the whole winner/loser thing is not a particularly relevant component.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Throth
Viziam Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:26:59 -
[980] - Quote
My last post since I finally have Eve installed and can delete this toon. My response is to the original poster from my perspective as to why I left Eve after over 10 years: I like PVE, and Eve always had a place for it. Slowly over time, to what seemed to me an attempt to keep PvPers and gankers happy, CCP stopped fighting against griefing and started allowing it. Safe PvE became less and less possible without taking great strides in protecting yourself from griefers. My last resort was hauling, but not in a player corp - because until recently Awoxxing would happen. So I had to stay in a NPC corp and do contracts... until Hypedunking. After an unsuccessful hyperdunking against my freighter, I realized that I'm just tired of where this game has gone. The idea of trusting no one while at the same time making in a world where you have to be able to rely on someone else to survive is illogical. Just reading the forums and reading how quick this community is to defend griefers and griefing says a lot about the quality of character this game retains. This game is not for me. I won't miss it for a second, and the community here won't miss me or anyone like me. Have fun scamming, exploiting and griefing each other. That's Eve's legacy now. |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25883
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:29:06 -
[981] - Quote
Again, so much for GÇ£experienceGÇ¥.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
|
Salvos Rhoska
1319
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:31:34 -
[982] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Lottery is PvE, because the random event is usually an event within the environment (a spinning wheel, bouncing balls, etc.)
Actually, that too is PvP, as long as there are other human participants.
If we are referring to choosing X numbers out of Y, which are then rolled out of a random spinning wheel, its technically PvP. All players are subject to the same environmental constraints and odds are equal. However if 2 players both get the same number of right numbers, the winnings are split between them, which means the players are, after all, in direct competition with each other for a finite resource. The amount of players hence directly affects the degree of winnings, through increased competition for those winnings, if they "play as good as you", by getting the same result right as you.
If we are referring to a raffle lottery, in which the more tickets you buy, the more your odds of winning increase, it is again PvP. By buying more tickets than other players, you remove those from the market, and increase your own competitive edge against theirs, towards a finite resource. Same also goes for scratchcard lottery, in which the choices of which cards you buy, remove those from the pool, and ultimately also removing winning tickets from the total available to other players. In both cases, if theoretically you buy ALL the tickets, or are the only participant, then only you win, meaning it is competitive based on other PLAYER participation (not on any non-human participant), in everycase where you have not bought them all.
As to your point:
An example of a PvE lottery, is slot machines. There you put in your money, and hit the button, and there is no competition for or division of your winnings by other players, and it is entirely determined between you and the artificial non-human random mechanism.
------------
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Whitehound
2885
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Posted - 2015.09.01 21:37:43 -
[983] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:What do you think we are talking about, Tippia? We were talking about how your supposed competitive PvE had no PvE in it. And what did I tell you?
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25884
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:41:34 -
[984] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:+ê-ç-ë -ä++++ +¦++-ë-â-â+¦+¦+« +¦+¦+¦++-î-ä++-ä+¦ +¦++-î-é -â+¦+++¦+¦+¦+¼-ü+¦ +¦+«-Ç++ Answer the question: at what?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
363
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:46:33 -
[985] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Jill Xelitras wrote:Lottery = 100% chance based . It's neither PvP nor PvE. Even if I knew all contestants, it wouldn't change a thing. What next on your list ? Beauty pageants ?
We have explained how one trader can manipulate the market or deny trades ... not going over this again.
Have you been around when some miners needed to have explained to them that the minerals they mined are not free just because they didn't spend isk to get them ? This discussion reminds me a lot of that. Opportunity cost is real.
Lottery is PvE, because the random event is usually an event within the environment (a spinning wheel, bouncing balls, etc.). In market trading can players only improve upon their own position and only one player gets the best spot (not necessarily as players can choose different stations and market hubs are not always the best place, still ...). When a buyer will buy your items or when a competitor changes their orders is also chance based. There is no guarantee for a sell order to always go through. For simplicity, let's assume only one player at a time can make a sale and that in a lottery there was only one winning ticket. How would you say is market trading different from a lottery with regards to PvP?
Time to crack open economy 101.
The value of an item is not chance based. This is not a single player game with a market- fairy pulling random numbers out of a hat.
A market is by definition where offer and demand meet, the intersection of offer and demand being the price. The price is therefore not random but determined by what buyers are ready to spend and sellers are prepred to offer. This whole thing is not static either. You don't position yourself once and hope for the best. On the contrary, you change your offer according to what other sellers do. The eve market is not unlike a stock exchange.
Next thing you say that it's chance based when a competitor changes their offer. NO ! They don't roll the dice to decide what to do next. You may not be able to predict what others do, but it's not random what they do.
Actually I start to believe that you're trolling ... if so: well done, hat off to you.
Lottery is PvE, yeah that was funny.
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
25
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:47:58 -
[986] - Quote
Throth wrote:My last post since I finally have Eve installed and can delete this toon. My response is to the original poster from my perspective as to why I left Eve after over 10 years: I like PVE, and Eve always had a place for it. Slowly over time, to what seemed to me an attempt to keep PvPers and gankers happy, CCP stopped fighting against griefing and started allowing it. Safe PvE became less and less possible without taking great strides in protecting yourself from griefers. My last resort was hauling, but not in a player corp - because until recently Awoxxing would happen. So I had to stay in a NPC corp and do contracts... until Hypedunking. After an unsuccessful hyperdunking against my freighter, I realized that I'm just tired of where this game has gone. The idea of trusting no one while at the same time making in a world where you have to be able to rely on someone else to survive is illogical. Just reading the forums and reading how quick this community is to defend griefers and griefing says a lot about the quality of character this game retains. This game is not for me. I won't miss it for a second, and the community here won't miss me or anyone like me. Have fun scamming, exploiting and griefing each other. That's Eve's legacy now.
Have fun in whatever games you play in the future |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
576
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:50:27 -
[987] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:What do you think we are talking about, Tippia? We were talking about how your supposed competitive PvE had no PvE in it. And what did I tell you?
About 8 pages ago you made a statement that Tippa is challenging. You have not addressed Tippia's challenge and subsequently Tippia will keep returning to that point until you adequately reply. Attempting to move the discussion beyond that point will (and has) resulted in you believing the discussion was about a different topic than what Tippia is discussing. Raising new points will result in Tippia arguing those points while stating that you are shifting the goal posts.
I suggest you read back through the thread and see where you missed the link and address that post. |
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
502
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:51:46 -
[988] - Quote
Lottery is actually a poor example in the general. One where a selection of numbers is chosen and anybody can select those are essentially competitive pve. True your share drops, but that is essentially a tie.
Stuff like a 50/50 can be PVP cause only one has a number. The person who buys more is a better chance of winning. Investment is the ammo. |
Whitehound
2885
|
Posted - 2015.09.01 21:54:48 -
[989] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote: Actually, that too is PvP, as long as there are other human participants.
If we are referring to choosing X numbers out of Y, which are then rolled out of a random spinning wheel, its technically PvP. All players are subject to the same environmental constraints and odds are equal. However if 2 players both get the same number of right numbers, the winnings are split between them, which means the players are, after all, in direct competition with each other for a finite resource. The amount of players hence directly affects the degree of winnings, through increased competition for those winnings, if they "play as good as you", by getting the same result right as you.
No. You are implying that the players would somehow have a control over the outcome, which they do not. The split you have introduced in your lottery (not mine) is merely a detail of the randomness. There is no need to make a split and the winnings can just simply go to the first winning ticket. Nor did the players ever get a guarantee over the amount they will win or that they win at all. So even with a split is there no control, because not only is the winning number a random event, but the number each player has is often also random (unless you have a lottery where player can pick their own number, which all in the bigger picture will also just be a random number).
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2015.09.01 21:57:36 -
[990] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Whitehound wrote:Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:What do you think we are talking about, Tippia? We were talking about how your supposed competitive PvE had no PvE in it. And what did I tell you? About 8 pages ago you made a statement that Tippa is challenging. You have not addressed Tippia's challenge ... Oh I have. This is also going on for more than 8 pages. You better start reading back. Tippia has so far conceded twice and I have stopped taking her seriously. She has repeatedly failed to provide proof and is refusing to answer my questions. Now she is answering in a language I cannot read. I can only take that has her third concession.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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