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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32255
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 07:28:02 -
[1021] - Quote
Casuals who buy PLEX would stay, what are you talking about.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
636
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 07:35:29 -
[1022] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Casuals who buy PLEX would stay, what are you talking about.
The kind of people you're talking about - the ones who have the skill and experience and SP to grind a bil every month are not the casuals.
Casuals are the guys who sell PLEX to keep ahead whilr remaining on a subscription.
Let's just clear that up.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32255
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 07:39:32 -
[1023] - Quote
What if I have the skill and SP to grind tens of billions a month, but buy PLEX because EVE is torture?
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25887
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 07:51:54 -
[1024] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:What if I have the skill and SP to grind tens of billions a month, but buy PLEX because EVE is torture? Then CCP should probably look into licensing EVE to the security and defence sector and use the cash to offer it for free to the players.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 08:32:05 -
[1025] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I'm curious if rising PLEX prices will mean fewer casual sub-with-PLEX players and more casual sub-with-money players.
It's just supply and demand.
As soon as the demand drops so will the price. Although I doubt there will be a price crash as people see them as investments. It's more likely that players will just hold onto them if the price dips slightly preventing a price crash.
EVE's market is manipulated by the players to some degree.
I doubt EVE will lose many players just because of the PLEX price, it may lose a few that can't really afford to sub. It is more likely to lose alt accounts though but of course that will depend on how many are being run by someone and their personal circumstances. |
Skeln Thargensen
katana spelunking trips
588
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Posted - 2015.09.02 08:43:26 -
[1026] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:I'm curious if rising PLEX prices will mean fewer casual sub-with-PLEX players and more casual sub-with-money players.
i never bought PLEX for IRL cash before they hit 1Bn. the 2 pack seems a like a deal now if you can't spare the time or be bothered making ISK.
forums. -áserious business.
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Whitehound
2885
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Posted - 2015.09.02 09:14:23 -
[1027] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:... We can not know the instances when things occur ... Which is why to an observer it is random.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
338
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Posted - 2015.09.02 09:20:24 -
[1028] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Casuals who buy PLEX would stay, what are you talking about. Define casuals. I'm casual. I'm playing 2-3 hours sessions, not every day. I'm plexing my account because I know where to get ISK. What about those who don't know and can't afford to pay for sub?
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
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Darth Schweinebacke
We're Serious
51
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Posted - 2015.09.02 09:27:41 -
[1029] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:The fact is too many noobs play the game.
Something really drastic needs to change the face of PVP, i'm messing around FW space and like losing slashers. What annoys me more than anything is how you can set someone up perfectly just for a friend of the intended victim (that you don't see because the information is not there to be analysed) change the battle landscape. It's just causes PVP to be dull predictable and regimented.
I hate warp disrupters/scramblers (Cutting MWD off yes, stopping people from retreating no) they are one of the biggest deterrents for PVP because people won't commit. Some argue that you make the decision to engage and you must commit becuase you made a bad decision and you must pay the consequence. I don't agree on that at all. Someone can make a bad bad decision and have a mate come save him, you made a good decision but now because of unseen circumstances you have no way to regroup and retreat.
If anything, the next mods to hit the hammer should be warp disrupters and scramblers.
I like how you start your post and then expose yourself as one of them. Well done!
In regards to the worst ideas ever: This one must definetly be in the top10. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 09:28:46 -
[1030] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:Cancel Align NOW wrote:... We can not know the instances when things occur ... Which is why to an observer it is random.
Something may appear random to someone but that doesn't mean it is.
Like someone else said if there was no light there would be no colour, I disagree with that. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
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Darth Schweinebacke
We're Serious
52
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Posted - 2015.09.02 09:39:13 -
[1031] - Quote
Avvy wrote:
Like someone else said if there was no light there would be no colour, I disagree with that. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
You might want to do some research on that topic before making such a nonsense statement. |
Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
202
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Posted - 2015.09.02 09:48:23 -
[1032] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:The fact is too many noobs play the game.
Something really drastic needs to change the face of PVP, i'm messing around FW space and like losing slashers. What annoys me more than anything is how you can set someone up perfectly just for a friend of the intended victim (that you don't see because the information is not there to be analysed) change the battle landscape. It's just causes PVP to be dull predictable and regimented.
I hate warp disrupters/scramblers (Cutting MWD off yes, stopping people from retreating no) they are one of the biggest deterrents for PVP because people won't commit. Some argue that you make the decision to engage and you must commit becuase you made a bad decision and you must pay the consequence. I don't agree on that at all. Someone can make a bad bad decision and have a mate come save him, you made a good decision but now because of unseen circumstances you have no way to regroup and retreat.
If anything, the next mods to hit the hammer should be warp disrupters and scramblers.
You pick a fight, get tackled and whine when the target's friends arrive and blap you.
Yet you think you are the one who did not make the bad decision?
Kind of sounds like you are saying "I suck at PVP, nerf it so I can run away from a fight if I am losing."
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."
- Hunter S. Thompson
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Whitehound
2885
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Posted - 2015.09.02 10:01:24 -
[1033] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Something may appear random to someone but that doesn't mean it is. Of course not. If we assume the entire universe was predictable then nothing within would ever be random. Neither human behaviour nor the lottery. But this was not the question, was it? We certainly do allow events to be described as random, because of our lack of knowledge over what exactly caused them. Does a buyer buy items because he needs them? They most often do, don't they? Do we know why he thinks he needs them? That we also often know. But do we know the exact time when this will happen? We most often do not, but we can look it up after a sale has been made. That makes is random.
My point still is that loss is essential to PvP and that in market trading you are save from losses from others (excluding your own failures). The market environment protects you with guarantees (you either get the amount of ISKs you have asked for or you get the item back), shields you from being identified (competing sellers can not see your name, only buyers can know your name after the sale), allows you only to modify or to remove your own orders and turns it into competitive PvE.
The question over what the lottery was, since it is one of the most random things, was just a question. Still interesting to see how someone would describe the lottery as PvP.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Maraner
The Executioners Shadow Cartel
318
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 10:01:56 -
[1034] - Quote
The game does seem to be in flux at the moment.
There have been a long series of 'expansions' where a great deal of the content was moving the slider bars on the ship statistics... sorry CCP but that was just how it felt.
There needs to be some new content in the game that everyone can enjoy. Whilst a rationalization of some of the recent changes takes place.
However for me among many of the things that concern me the most is the pace of change. Last fanfest we were promised player made gates.... no sign after nearly a year.
The fozzie sov took a long time to appear and appears poorly regarded in many areas. BTW the troll ceptor needs to go away immediately, needs to be skin in the game. Cruiser hulls and bigger for the entosis module, hell I'd make it battleships only or bigger.
Nullified ships need to exit the game immediately. This immunity to being shot.... whoever thought that one up.... But most of all content. New content, new trailers like the butterfly effect. New ships T2 dreds? new modes of warfare and although I hate the use the term new Jesus features. Good ones. Oh and quickly please.... quickly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5LdPf2J_hs |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 10:06:32 -
[1035] - Quote
Darth Schweinebacke wrote:Avvy wrote:
Like someone else said if there was no light there would be no colour, I disagree with that. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's not there.
You might want to do some research on that topic before making such a nonsense statement.
Been afk making a drink, considering my comment you quoted here.
Ok, you're right but not much research needed, just had to remind myself what the definition of colour is. |
Darth Schweinebacke
We're Serious
52
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 10:10:11 -
[1036] - Quote
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
141
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 10:19:26 -
[1037] - Quote
Whitehound wrote: The question over what the lottery was, since it is one of the most random things, was just a question. Still interesting to see how someone would describe the lottery as PvP.
I don't remember anyone before MMOs talking about PvE and PvP.
As far as I know they were terms specifically used within video gaming to distinguish between two main styles.
I really don't think it matters outside of video games. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
25887
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 10:24:35 -
[1038] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:We certainly do allow events to be described as random, because of our lack of knowledge over what exactly caused them. No, we don't, because that would imply a lot more knowledge that's what's available in such an instance. Either way, it would be a wholly inaccurate description of the market, since we know what's causing it and since we know it's not random, nor does it appear to be random.
Quote: Does a buyer buy items because he needs them? They most often do, don't they? Do we know why he thinks he needs them? That we also often know. But do we know the exact time when this will happen? We most often do not, but we can look it up after a sale has been made. That makes is random. No, it makes it unknown. GÇ£Random" is something completely different, and since we know it is not random it would be entirely inaccurate to use that term.
Quote: My point still is that loss is essential to PvP Your point is still inaccurate, as has been amply demonstrated.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2.
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Bagrat Skalski
Poseidaon
9195
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 11:01:43 -
[1039] - Quote
I sometimes think you all like to argue over nothing in partcular, because you just had this impressions. I usually dont argue over impressions, even when someone says they are facts, they are often not.
Maybe just enjoy the game, if there is something to enjoy in the first place. Stop and ask yoursef that question, do you want to play the game, and why. Or maybe why not? Its everyones oppinion, how is the game doing...
If you want statistical data, make a survey.
Custom ship skins | Since 2014 | Character creator style "repaint" | Bring back the dream
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GeorgePenken
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 11:24:17 -
[1040] - Quote
Hilti Enaka wrote:The fact is too many noobs play the game.
Something really drastic needs to change the face of PVP, i'm messing around FW space and like losing slashers. What annoys me more than anything is how you can set someone up perfectly just for a friend of the intended victim (that you don't see because the information is not there to be analysed) change the battle landscape. It's just causes PVP to be dull predictable and regimented.
I hate warp disrupters/scramblers (Cutting MWD off yes, stopping people from retreating no) they are one of the biggest deterrents for PVP because people won't commit. Some argue that you make the decision to engage and you must commit becuase you made a bad decision and you must pay the consequence. I don't agree on that at all. Someone can make a bad bad decision and have a mate come save him, you made a good decision but now because of unseen circumstances you have no way to regroup and retreat.
If anything, the next mods to hit the hammer should be warp disrupters and scramblers.
I kinda like this idea. Instead of warp disrupters and scramblers being modules that have an on and off button - I suppose it would be kinda neat to have some sort of other gameplay, which means when you pick a fight, getting tackled isn't just about a target's friend arriving and blapping you making you think you are the one who made the bad decision. It's got nothing to do with sucking at pvp, nerf it so I can run away from a fight if I am losing, the thrill of PVP is just as much about surviving as it is about popping someone.
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Jill Xelitras
Xeltec services
365
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 11:44:59 -
[1041] - Quote
GeorgePenken wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:The fact is too many noobs play the game.
Something really drastic needs to change the face of PVP, i'm messing around FW space and like losing slashers. What annoys me more than anything is how you can set someone up perfectly just for a friend of the intended victim (that you don't see because the information is not there to be analysed) change the battle landscape. It's just causes PVP to be dull predictable and regimented.
I hate warp disrupters/scramblers (Cutting MWD off yes, stopping people from retreating no) they are one of the biggest deterrents for PVP because people won't commit. Some argue that you make the decision to engage and you must commit becuase you made a bad decision and you must pay the consequence. I don't agree on that at all. Someone can make a bad bad decision and have a mate come save him, you made a good decision but now because of unseen circumstances you have no way to regroup and retreat.
If anything, the next mods to hit the hammer should be warp disrupters and scramblers. I kinda like this idea. Instead of warp disrupters and scramblers being modules that have an on and off button - I suppose it would be kinda neat to have some sort of other gameplay, which means when you pick a fight, getting tackled isn't just about a target's friend arriving and blapping you making you think you are the one who made the bad decision. It's got nothing to do with sucking at pvp, nerf it so I can run away from a fight if I am losing, the thrill of PVP is just as much about surviving as it is about popping someone.
You can use energy neutralizers to shut down the warp scrambler of your enemy. You can use ecm drones to get a chance of breaking away from the fight, when you get a jam. You can fly an ecm bonussed ship and prevent getting shot for a good while ... I love Griffins. You can fly a ship with high alpha damage ... there's a reason why dessies and tier 3 BCs are popular.
There are many options.
Also, can someone explain what this thread is about?-á (Relax ! I'm just quoting Holgrak Blacksmith here.)
When life gives you lemons, swap letters and poof: melons, solemn melons.
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
636
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 11:55:21 -
[1042] - Quote
Bagrat Skalski wrote:I sometimes think you all like to argue over nothing in partcular, because you just had this impressions. I usually dont argue over impressions, even when someone says they are facts, they are often not.
Maybe just enjoy the game, if there is something to enjoy in the first place. Stop and ask yoursef that question, do you want to play the game, and why. Or maybe why not? Its everyones oppinion, how is the game doing...
If you want statistical data, make a survey.
How about CCP offer to make certain members of the community that actively contribute a part of some focus group? And I don't just mean the CSM because a lot of those votes are fixed anyway, I mean as best as possible people who have been identified as real contributors towards the game and get their (hopefully unbiased) opinions about what can be done.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
338
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 12:04:08 -
[1043] - Quote
Caleb Seremshur wrote:How about CCP offer to make certain members of the community that actively contribute a part of some focus group? And I don't just mean the CSM because a lot of those votes are fixed anyway, I mean as best as possible people who have been identified as real contributors towards the game and get their (hopefully unbiased) opinions about what can be done. It's CSM role. I wish we have CSM memebers more focused on certain aspects of the game. For example representant of PvErs, PvPers etc. More focused discussions of what is possible and what is not.
"-What are you doing?"
"-Docking."(...)
-"It's not possible"
-"No, it's necessary."
|
Murauke
Assisted Homicide
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 12:09:44 -
[1044] - Quote
Jill Xelitras wrote:GeorgePenken wrote:Hilti Enaka wrote:The fact is too many noobs play the game.
Something really drastic needs to change the face of PVP, i'm messing around FW space and like losing slashers. What annoys me more than anything is how you can set someone up perfectly just for a friend of the intended victim (that you don't see because the information is not there to be analysed) change the battle landscape. It's just causes PVP to be dull predictable and regimented.
I hate warp disrupters/scramblers (Cutting MWD off yes, stopping people from retreating no) they are one of the biggest deterrents for PVP because people won't commit. Some argue that you make the decision to engage and you must commit becuase you made a bad decision and you must pay the consequence. I don't agree on that at all. Someone can make a bad bad decision and have a mate come save him, you made a good decision but now because of unseen circumstances you have no way to regroup and retreat.
If anything, the next mods to hit the hammer should be warp disrupters and scramblers. I kinda like this idea. Instead of warp disrupters and scramblers being modules that have an on and off button - I suppose it would be kinda neat to have some sort of other gameplay, which means when you pick a fight, getting tackled isn't just about a target's friend arriving and blapping you making you think you are the one who made the bad decision. It's got nothing to do with sucking at pvp, nerf it so I can run away from a fight if I am losing, the thrill of PVP is just as much about surviving as it is about popping someone. You can use energy neutralizers to shut down the warp scrambler of your enemy. You can use ecm drones to get a chance of breaking away from the fight, when you get a jam. You can fly an ecm bonussed ship and prevent getting shot for a good while ... I love Griffins. You can fly a ship with high alpha damage ... there's a reason why dessies and tier 3 BCs are popular. There are many options.
I disagree -
You can use energy neutralizers to shut down the warp scrambler of your enemy. - Always depends on cap size of ship You can use ecm drones to get a chance of breaking away from the fight, when you get a jam. - This is very much at the mersey of chance, unlike disrupters that 100% of the time work. You can fly an ecm bonussed ship and prevent getting shot for a good while ... I love Griffins. - again this is down to chance. You can fly a ship with high alpha damage ... there's a reason why dessies and tier 3 BCs are popular. There is that but in the event that the OP was talking about being able to survive, if i understand correctly, much of the information you make when choosing to engage is from the information you can obtain from D scan etc, it almost sounds like the OP wants a better way to make a more informed decision, instead of the "regimented", point, hold wait for reinforcement and overkill. |
The VC's
The Scope Gallente Federation
164
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Posted - 2015.09.02 12:18:22 -
[1045] - Quote
This thread is embarrassing for us.
Please lock it. |
Whitehound
2885
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 12:18:40 -
[1046] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Whitehound wrote:We certainly do allow events to be described as random, because of our lack of knowledge over what exactly caused them. No, we don't ... Of course we do. We even have different names for it: arbitrary, noise, luck, ... Whenever we do not have any further information on the cause do we use them. Your favourite word is "irrelevant" and it serves you a similar purpose.
Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
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Salvos Rhoska
1319
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Posted - 2015.09.02 12:21:31 -
[1047] - Quote
Whitehound wrote:
My point still is that loss is essential to PvP and that in market trading you are save from losses from others (excluding your own failures). The market environment protects you with guarantees (you either get the amount of ISKs you have asked for or you get the item back), shields you from being identified (competing sellers can not see your name, only buyers can know your name after the sale), allows you only to modify or to remove your own orders and turns it into competitive PvE.
Loss, as your quote states, is meaningful. However what you ascribe as a loss, is measured against what values you hold it up to. Some people do not consider losing a 1bil ship, a "loss", but objectively, it is. Some people do not consider their commodities sitting on the market for 90 days, a "loss", but objectively any number of people were making profit in that interim, and directly denying that to the guy who has sold nothing (and who instead has effectively also lost all of their structural trading overhead costs for placing the orders, with no return).
Im market trading, the objective are profit, market share and equity. Yes, you can choose to never sell or buy anything, and subsequently never lose nor profit from trading. But that doesnt change the market game, just means you never play it. You can also choose to subjecrively consider yourself not taking a loss if someone manages to more successfully pursue their trading goals over yours, but the result is still that they benefitted by their actions, and you did not. You objecrively "lost" the opportunity, and they gained it and its benefits, due to their market actions as competetive against yours.
When you do involve yourself in it by buying or selling, you are in competetive interaction with other players. Whether they are anonymous (as we all are anyways in EVE, since we operate under alliases), does not change that. Knowing who they are, would be useful information that can be used for purposes of player vs player interaction and competition, but is not a condition of PvP. All the action on the market, is a result of player action (with the exception of a few NPC commodities, which they themselves also are ultimately subject to player action and manipulation, to a dynamic result). None of it is random, it is all deliberate and enacted by other players. There is no AI RNG affecting it.
The market system incurs some environmental constraints, in the form of limitations on range, tariffs/taxes/fees, number of orders etc. These can be mitigated by player action in terms of skilling, so as to improve that players competetive edge vs other players inthese markets. The trading environment itself, however, is AI inactive. It provides mearly the framework and basic interface mechanics for players to enact trading in EVE. Meaning players do not play against the AI/NPC, meaning there is no PvE element.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
32256
|
Posted - 2015.09.02 12:22:00 -
[1048] - Quote
The VC's wrote:This thread is embarrassing for us.
Please lock it. Freddie Mercury has spoken
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
143
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Posted - 2015.09.02 12:30:16 -
[1049] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:The VC's wrote:This thread is embarrassing for us.
Please lock it. Freddie Mercury has spoken
I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about anymore as it has deviated so much.
I think a lock might be a good idea.
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Salvos Rhoska
1319
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Posted - 2015.09.02 12:36:33 -
[1050] - Quote
Imo this thread has been such a remarkable ramble through so many topics that I suggest it remains open for it to run its course till it drops off the list on its own eventual lack of merit.
Sometimes threads with many overlapping topics involved can lead to wider discussion on interconnected stuff, that would not take place in other threads being as focused on specific ones at the exception of others.
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