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Barrogh Habalu
Forever Winter Absolute Zero.
1040
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Posted - 2015.08.26 13:18:56 -
[31] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Seeing as how the predator holds nearly every advantage and is hunting it's prey to extinction.... Maybe not. As long as players will think with such categories and arbitrary terms as "prey", "predator", "profession", "playstyle", they will only see problems with EVE everywhere. You are correct though that ads are off when they tell you that you can have a good game and ignore most of its aspects at the same time. "Professions" are merely tools to fulfil particular tasks when needed, sticking just to one is a mistake indeed.
EVE is not many games, it's one game. One who understands that is a lot happier when he logs in.
Orca Platypus wrote:Don't forget that eve combat pvp is niche activity available once you get around 70 million SP. Trying to fight before you're there only entertains the griefers. What ship requires you to have 70m SP to fly it to its maximum potential and how getting into one automatically places you out of reach of "griefers"? Sorry if I can't see sarcasm here.
Mike Voidstar wrote:The ability to evade isn't a combat advantage.
It's the bald admission that you won, a ceding the field before a fight even begins because they have no chance to win. That's the balance of the game--- Unless your play is focused exclusively on PvP then you are at a severe disadvantage in any PvP fight. It's intentional... those PvE activities exist to create soft targets for PvP pilots. Why should you be given a combat advantage for calling yourself some arbitrary term, "PvE player", for example?
PvE is a name given to activities that are in essence are acquisition of resources. That's basically it. Your advantage when you do it is that it pays, unlike pretty much anything else in the game, and that is huge. And obviously you do that when you can as these resources fuel your options when something happens, but that doesn't mean you do that at the expense of everything else. Insisting to continue using a plow when it's time to pick an automatic rifle was never a good idea in any game of any genre ever, same with RL.
I don't understand why it comes up so often on these boards. Yeah, I understand that "sandbox, we do what we want" etc. but I've never seen Minecraft players complaining that their pickaxe is worse than sword at fighting and shovels don't shoot arrows. I also never seen those players not carrying aforementioned weapons around all the time and/or ignoring opportunities to prepare them in advance and learning to space themselves in swordfight or shoot straight with a bow. In EVE, on the other hand, sensible behaviour is apparently not a norm
Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
461
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Posted - 2015.08.26 14:21:20 -
[32] - Quote
OP see below I do have some things to share but first.
Adapt or get out of the game. Adapt or get into a NPC. Go fight in a war you have no chance to win. Go fight in ships that have no chance of survival no matter how good you are. And the list goes on.
It is so comforting to come here and see the same old crap being spewed forth by those who try to protect their rights to pick on a group of new players that has no realistic chance of fighting back. If you all want fights go to low and pick a fight, I can give you the names of several corps out there that would welcome you with open arms and fight you any time you want. I know you won't do that because at the core you are just as risk averse as the carebear newbies you love to war dec.
It is time for CCP to take a serious look at the entire WD mechanic since it is broken in so many ways I cannot even begin to count them. But it is likely they will not because in reality there is very little that can be done and the cries from one side or the other would be deafening even if they did.
Off the soap box and back to other thoughts.
Arya Regnar wrote:Yeah... No... 3b minimum for a week of wardecs where you can on average look at people dropping corps instantly and maybe getting a few kills which result in less than 300m total net worth for you from drops is a total nonsense. Oh now you have gone and broke my heart and it is bleeding all over for you. NOT. If you do not want to spend 3 billion a week on worthless war decs then go spend that 3 bil in low sec and find some real fights. On the other hand if you choose to spend that 3 bil on worthless war decs then don't come here and complain about it. Besides the simple fact that you CAN and WILL spend 3 bil a week on worthless war decs in high sec is all the indicator we need that they system is broken and is likely beyond repair.
To the OP. If you are telling the truth and you and your corp have been under a constant series of WD then file a ticket with CCP. Doubtful you will get a favorable response from them since they seem to be hell bent on allowing this type of behavior but it can't hurt either since this type of activity does meet the OFFICIAL CCP definition of griefing.
I agree with the others, any corp that advertises that they are CODE compliant is one you should not be in. CODE in nothing more than organised extortion, and I am OK with that it is all part of the game but you do not need to be a victim of it when there are other options.
To fight or not is a personal choice, my only caution is to be careful if you do choose to fight, no I do not mean careful as in how you fly your ships I mean careful in who you choose to fight. About 50% of the time fighting back will only encourage the WD corp because you are giving them what they want cheap and easy kills to pad kill boards. In some cases you are adding to their profits because they get a bonus for every ship they kill.
I agree with others if you have no roles then dropping corp and moving into an NPC. You cannot be war decced in an NPC and even better you get to go out and do whatever you want and there is nothing the WD corp can do but get angry and come here and cry about how unfair it is. Doing this may increase your risk of being gankled though so some additional cautions are advised.
Take advantage of the easy access to jump clones and keep them located all over the EvE Universe. Every 24 hours jump to another random clone and then go out and about for about an hour then dock simply to torment that WD corp. Unlikely they will chase after you when you do this as it takes far to much effort for many of them, but you will run into a few dedicated players that relish the hunt so caution is advised.
In the end the others are correct. Currently CCP does not consider the use of the war dec mechanic in the way you describe to be harmful to the game and they have repeatedly stated that they have no plans to change it. So spread the word if / when you or any other new players quit, as part of your request to terminate your subscription you need to be extremely vocal about why you are leaving. It will not do you any good, and it may not do any good overall but maybe the mounting evidence would have an affect over time. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
2093
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Posted - 2015.08.26 14:38:19 -
[33] - Quote
Tilah Chengdu wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Yeah... No... 3b minimum for a week of wardecs where you can on average look at people dropping corps instantly and maybe getting a few kills which result in less than 300m total net worth for you from drops is a total nonsense.
The mechanics allow anyone to freely get away from any kind of wardec instantly with very little downsides. As for you t3 arguments, you want to mine in a player corporation in highsec you have to deal with the second biggest but avoidable threat, the first being suicide ganking.
Locator agents offer the only way to wardec guys to not be a 24/7 uedama niarja jita amarr domixie campers. Locator agents are fine, maybe highsec is broken. In highsec you are too easy to follow, considered escaping to wormholes?
You want to play eve by your own rules in the dumbest way possible and then complain about how it's unenjoyable because of people that want to push you towards the very core mechanics of game.
Eve is a PVP game. Deal with it. Harden the f up, or get blown to bits. The sooner you stop being a PVP avoiding whinebear the more fun you can look forward to having in this game. Your view is very narrow and one dimensional. Your arguments are juvenile and donGÇÖt consider the bigger picture of healthy game population growth. Sounds like you are afraid of having to PvP against targets that can fight back and prefer the status quo you have become accustomed to.
On the contrary. YOUR view is very narrow. Youa re the one that do not understand eve. Eve is a game where you are NOT supposed to be safe EVER. Sicne you do nto understand eve, YOUR arguments are the juvenile ones.
War dec is NOT easy, we spend BIllions and most peopel just drop corp instantly WITH NO EXTRA COST for them to reform the corp with same name + a dot.
Hint you can learn a bit about the game, and HIRE mercenaries. When the war becoem too dangerous several groups will simply stop it.
"If brute force does not solve your problem.... then you are surely not using enough!"
For the rest hire PoH |
Recruitment
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Sonya Corvinus
Chickenhawk.
133
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Posted - 2015.08.26 16:06:13 -
[34] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:stuff
Today I learned that Mike still doesn't realize what game he is playing.
EVE has specifically been advertised as an open world, single shard PvP game. Nowhere did CCP ever give the impression that it is anything other than that.
Maybe this isn't the game for you.
And you claim the playerbase is terrible? wat? For newbies willing to listen and learn (which the OP has refused to do so far) EVE's playerbase is by far one of the most supportive and helpful of any game I have played. 99% of vets in EVE will give a few million isk to a newbie they just killed if that newbie asks questions, tries to improve and doesn't rage about it like you and the OP of this thread.
Quote: Like many new players you showed up expecting a game where you could enjoy the game (PVE) rather than play battlefield in spaceships.
Showing up to EVE expecting to do nothing but enjoy PvE is like showing up at a Justin Beiber concert expecting to see Steve from Blue's Clues sing a song. It simply isn't what it was made for. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
766
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Posted - 2015.08.26 23:14:13 -
[35] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: To the OP. If you are telling the truth and you and your corp have been under a constant series of WD then file a ticket with CCP. Doubtful you will get a favorable response from them since they seem to be hell bent on allowing this type of behavior but it can't hurt either since this type of activity does meet the OFFICIAL CCP definition of griefing.
Blah blah blah...
Quote:Petition evil basterds!!! This is the victim society we raise today. Don't bring this garbage of yours into eve.
Biomass.
There is nothing against rules to wardec a corp that constantly gives you free kills, if they want to have no wardecs they can drop to NPC corp, they clearly have options.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2658
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 23:35:08 -
[36] - Quote
This is the nature of the game. Just get stuck in with some friends and cheap ships. Winning is less important than the learning experience. These won't be your last wardecs if you stick with the game so get learning now.
If that is the last thing you want to do and you just want to play with some friends without wardecs, then you can show support for the social Corp idea. (Will link when not on phone)
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
116
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Posted - 2015.08.26 23:44:03 -
[37] - Quote
Tilah Chengdu wrote:You have minnows (new players) trying to swim around and grow to be big fish. The way things are currently setup itGÇÖs too easy for the larger fish to feed too aggressively on the young fish. If not corrected the overall population will continue to decline.
That's the nature of EVE, problem is with locator agents the minnows don't have many places to hide.
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Kestrix
Bedlam Escapees Silent Requiem
183
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Posted - 2015.08.27 00:15:37 -
[38] - Quote
Space is supposed to be vast, it would be nice to be able to move out of an area and 'hide' away from the war. It's too easy just to pay an agent to locate someone. My thought on this matter is to be able to pay the agents to look the other way so when someone tries to locate you the agent says 'nope pretty sure I don't know where he/she is' then they have to go out and look the old fashioned way. Would require getting a level 4 agent and paying isk for a block of time, 24 hours? That or move into WH space. |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
285
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Posted - 2015.08.27 00:57:13 -
[39] - Quote
War Decs are an unpleasant aspect to EVE, but the mechanic is necessary, despite what one may perceive as abuse, for legitimate PvP actions in High Sec by one corp against another.
In EVE you have many, many options for not only doing things but where you are doing them.
1 - most war decc'ers do not hunt for war targets in Low Sec or Null Sec. The draw back to Low and Null is that people can freely shoot you without concord intervention, but the general rule is: if it is not Blue, don't trust it.
2 - You can go to an NPC corp and not worry about War Decs, but you will still have to worry about Suicide Gankers. Plus you lose the joy of running your own corp.
3 - You can see about joining your corp to an Alliance for mutual protection and, easier support in Low/Null Sec.
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
285
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 01:25:13 -
[40] - Quote
So the OP's corp, VoidCraft, has 1 active dec and has had 16 war decs since it was founded this last February.
I see you are not the CEO of the corporation in question. Have you spoken with your CEO regarding options for your corporation to deal with War Decs? If they seem content, you might want to look at changing corps as it could be your corp is a feeding trough for Care-Bear PvPers.
In fact, looking at the kill reports, you really might want to reconsider why you are in the current corporation you are in.
Which leads to this question: what do you want out of EVE? |
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
463
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 02:33:03 -
[41] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Donnachadh wrote: To the OP. If you are telling the truth and you and your corp have been under a constant series of WD then file a ticket with CCP. Doubtful you will get a favorable response from them since they seem to be hell bent on allowing this type of behavior but it can't hurt either since this type of activity does meet the OFFICIAL CCP definition of griefing.
Blah blah blah... Quote:Petition evil basterds!!! This is the victim society we raise today. Don't bring this garbage of yours into eve. Biomass. There is nothing against rules to wardec a corp that constantly gives you free kills, if they want to have no wardecs they can drop to NPC corp, they clearly have options. Not going to biomass so you will have to suffer.
And no I am not promoting a victim based society. Simply pointing out that every player has the right to file a ticket with CCP to register a complaint and request aide and assistance. Based on what is publicly available it is not likely that anything will happen, but then CCP has access to records and information that we do not so who knows.
And you are also incorrect about one group being able to keep another under perpetual war dec. That is the very definition of griefing and I know from personal experience that it is not tolerated by CCP. But then CCP does not monitor these things as a matter of their daily operation so anyone that thinks they may be subject to actual griefing based on the official CCP definition and guidelines has to report it or nothing will happen. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
14311
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 03:17:41 -
[42] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: The ability to evade isn't a combat advantage.
It's the bald admission that you won, a ceding the field before a fight even begins because they have no chance to win. That's the balance of the game--- Unless your play is focused exclusively on PvP then you are at a severe disadvantage in any PvP fight. It's intentional... those PvE activities exist to create soft targets for PvP pilots.
If you don't like it, then stop being a prey animal.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
14311
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 03:19:51 -
[43] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: And you are also incorrect about one group being able to keep another under perpetual war dec. That is the very definition of griefing and I know from personal experience that it is not tolerated by CCP.
You re 100% wrong. If you are in a player corp, you are subject to wars for so long as someone wants to pay for it.
The GMs will tell you to drop to an NPC corp where you belong. Furthermore, you may even be warned against filing frivolous petitions in the future.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
117
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 09:17:51 -
[44] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: And you are also incorrect about one group being able to keep another under perpetual war dec. That is the very definition of griefing and I know from personal experience that it is not tolerated by CCP. But then CCP does not monitor these things as a matter of their daily operation so anyone that thinks they may be subject to actual griefing based on the official CCP definition and guidelines has to report it or nothing will happen.
Don't see how it can be griefing when you have the ability to avoid the war-dec. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
117
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 09:46:52 -
[45] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Mike Voidstar wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Sonya Corvinus wrote:
My EVE-sense is tingling. I have a sneaky feeling if OP doesn't come around he/she will have a few more wardecs in the morning because of this thread...
would settle for knocking off on pleading for the predator role getting another nerf. Seeing as how the predator holds nearly every advantage and is hunting it's prey to extinction.... Maybe not. If that were the case I wouldn't be posting here, I would be out rolling in corpses. It's much much easier to evade someone than it is to catch them and that's assuming they've been gracious enough to decide to remain a target at all. This drab, contemptuous attitude of yours is far more off putting and disheartening than anything I could do to someone The ability to evade isn't a combat advantage. It's the bald admission that you won, a ceding the field before a fight even begins because they have no chance to win. That's the balance of the game--- Unless your play is focused exclusively on PvP then you are at a severe disadvantage in any PvP fight. It's intentional... those PvE activities exist to create soft targets for PvP pilots.
If you're only into PvE then in this game you are effectively prey.
So take a note from nature;
Forage in larger numbers, added advantage being they won't get all of you.
See a predator or potential predator nearby get out of there, nothing wrong with running and hiding, that's one of the defense mechanisms of prey.
The ability to evade is a very useful ability for prey.
Also remember that prey is usually skittish and constantly monitor their surroundings.
There are other things you can do, you can strengthen your ship to withstand more punishment, which is also a defense that some animals have developed. Question is can you strengthen it enough.
So if you want to avoid the predators don't sit in the middle of the road like a rabbit staring at oncoming headlights.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
208
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Posted - 2015.08.27 10:42:31 -
[46] - Quote
Echoing some advice already given, the most important thing you can and should do is find a corporation that has experience dealing with wardecs. War and combat mechanics can be complicated (even the basic stuff everyone MUST know can be rather lengthy) and no amount of good forum advice is going to take the place of experienced corp mates who know what to do, how to do it, how to teach you, and how to work together to make sure it gets done right.
Wardecs are nothing to be afraid of or avoid. They just require a change in behaviors. And once you get into the groove of dealing with them, you'll find that EvE is actually much more fun with them, than without them.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
463
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:10:06 -
[47] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Donnachadh wrote: And you are also incorrect about one group being able to keep another under perpetual war dec. That is the very definition of griefing and I know from personal experience that it is not tolerated by CCP.
You re 100% wrong. If you are in a player corp, you are subject to wars for so long as someone wants to pay for it. The GMs will tell you to drop to an NPC corp where you belong. Furthermore, you may even be warned against filing frivolous petitions in the future. Anyone that files a ticket faces the chance of having it declared as frivolous. Yes you have the right to war dec whoever you want and for whatever reason you want. And no there is no official policy or guidelines published on this specific thing and each situation is reviewed and acted on according to that specific situation. As stated I have personal experience with this and I have seen at least one WD terminated by CCP because it was considered greifing after they reviewed the situation and the evidence presented.
So again I repeat myself. A corp that has been under constant WD since February has a possibility of having the WD classified as true griefing and thus having it nullified by CCP. But the only way the OP or anyone else will ever know is by filing that support ticket and asking for a review.
CCP is in a very difficult place with regards to WD, on the one side those who enjoy filing WD have a right to do so, on the other side CCP has a very real CASH based reason to watch the situation very carefully. Over the years I have always found CCP to be very accepting of players who file tickets to request a review and possible relief from the hassles of a WD. File that ticket the moment you are WD and you are likely correct and the GM would deny the request and likely issue the caution you mention. File that same ticket as a result of being under WD by the same group since February and I assure you the GM's response would be radically different. |
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
14317
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:21:09 -
[48] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: Anyone that files a ticket faces the chance of having it declared as frivolous.
Especially after being told beforehand that something is not petition-able. That's why your advice is so poisonous, because you're telling newbies to do something that anyone would know is wrong.
Quote: As stated I have personal experience with this and I have seen at least one WD terminated by CCP because it was considered greifing after they reviewed the situation and the evidence presented.
You lie.
This is very literally against policy, it would be like reimbursing someone for self destructing. If it actually happened, which I doubt, your duty as a player is to escalate it, because it should be seen by Internal Affairs.
"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs.
Best Meltdown Ever.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1872
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 14:29:12 -
[49] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:This is the nature of the game. Just get stuck in with some friends and cheap ships. Winning is less important than the learning experience. These won't be your last wardecs if you stick with the game so get learning now.
Actually the best way to shed decs is to deny them content. People quickly tire of paying isk for no content.
We are wardeced periodically (which is hilarious, living out of a hole) by the various high sec heroes and whilst we could go smash the deccers, doing so would only flag as people who entertain that sort of thing and invite more decs. So we don't bother.
No content for them, no fun for them, no more wardecs from them.
This will never change until the defending side has a reason to rock up and kerb stomp the aggressors beyond bragging rights/lols. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
465
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 02:44:19 -
[50] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Donnachadh wrote: Anyone that files a ticket faces the chance of having it declared as frivolous.
Especially after being told beforehand that something is not petition-able. That's why your advice is so poisonous, because you're telling newbies to do something that anyone would know is wrong. Quote: As stated I have personal experience with this and I have seen at least one WD terminated by CCP because it was considered greifing after they reviewed the situation and the evidence presented.
You lie. This is very literally against policy, it would be like reimbursing someone for self destructing. If it actually happened, which I doubt, your duty as a player is to escalate it, because it should be seen by Internal Affairs. Prove that I am lying, provide a link to this so called truth that some things (war decs specifically) cannot be petitioned because I cannot find it anywhere. And yes you will have to prove me wrong in this because the TOS specifically prohibits me from proving that I am correct. Any communications I may have had with CCP over this issue would be considered private and according to section 18 of the TOS (link below) I am specifically prohibited from posting them without permission. http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-tos/
On the other hand anything in the rules or TOS that might prove your statement would not be considered a "private" communication so you are free to link them without risk thus educating us all. |
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
1495
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 06:29:05 -
[51] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Prove that I am lying, provide a link to this so called truth that some things (war decs specifically) cannot be petitioned because I cannot find it anywhere. And yes you will have to prove me wrong in this because the TOS specifically prohibits me from proving that I am correct. Any communications I may have had with CCP over this issue would be considered private and according to section 18 of the TOS (link below) I am specifically prohibited from posting them without permission. http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-tos/ On the other hand anything in the rules or TOS that might prove your statement would not be considered a "private" communication so you are free to link them without risk thus educating us all.
This was the official policy although it has been "migrated" to the new support system and I cannot find it there:
CCP wrote: What is grief play?
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.
The bolding is mine.
That said, I am pretty convinced that CCP has refunded ships to valid gank targets on occasion, including targets I have exploded, so who knows how the GM choose to enforce their policies. But I would be surprised if they ever nullified a corporation war with no extenuating circumstances since the aggressing party would have to be informed and could raise a public stink. Giving free ships to gank victims undermines the economy and the integrity of the game, but does so in a quiet way. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
24908
|
Posted - 2015.08.28 17:31:34 -
[52] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:The ability to evade isn't a combat advantage. Evading means that you don't explode, that's an advantage in my book.
Quote:It's the bald admission that you won, a ceding the field before a fight even begins because they have no chance to win. Evade and survive is a century's old military tactic that is still in use today, I'd love to see you tell someone in the military that using it means that they've ceded the field because they had no chance of winning
Quote:That's the balance of the game--- Unless your play is focused exclusively on PvP then you are may be at a severe disadvantage, if you make poor choices, in any PvP fight. It's intentional... those PvE activities exist to create soft targets conflict opportunities for PvP pilots everybody. FTFY
I'm primarily a PvE player, I manage just fine in Eve despite the threat of wardecs, because they're trivial to evade even without taking advantage of the fact that I can drop to an NPC corp at will because I value my corp name.
The PvE activities in Eve are designed to either pit you against other players, or to pit other players against each other. In short PvP is not restricted to making stuff explode.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Fl4chz4ng3
Lost in shadow Brothers of Tangra
9
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Posted - 2015.08.28 17:58:04 -
[53] - Quote
Sadly they are right, you'll have to find others way to play and defend yourself.
Don't get me wrong I'm against the violence (except when you do not have other choices) but some players have use the game mechanics to control the hs and they are able to follow you everywhere.
May be they are room for improvements on the game design in the HS part but your post will not change it.
I suggest you try to advice your corpmates, think about moving in groups and not solo, make yourself less interesting to gank etc etc
Be clever than these people who want to watch new eden burn :-)
By the way yes you will die often during the process but at the end that's fun :-) |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
467
|
Posted - 2015.08.29 13:52:11 -
[54] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Donnachadh wrote:Prove that I am lying, provide a link to this so called truth that some things (war decs specifically) cannot be petitioned because I cannot find it anywhere. And yes you will have to prove me wrong in this because the TOS specifically prohibits me from proving that I am correct. Any communications I may have had with CCP over this issue would be considered private and according to section 18 of the TOS (link below) I am specifically prohibited from posting them without permission. http://community.eveonline.com/support/policies/eve-tos/ On the other hand anything in the rules or TOS that might prove your statement would not be considered a "private" communication so you are free to link them without risk thus educating us all. This was the official policy although it has been "migrated" to the new support system and I cannot find it there: CCP wrote: What is grief play?
A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersGÇÖ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities while he does not profit from it in any way. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account.
This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two (or more) players, such as corporation wars. The EVE universe is a harsh universe largely driven by such conflict and notice must be taken of the fact that nonconsensual combat alone is not considered to be grief play per the above definition.
An example of grief play would be the so called "Can baiting" in starter systems. An experienced player drops a cargo container with some items in front of a station in a starter system and waits for a new player to take from it. The new player is flagged and promptly attacked and killed by the owner of the container. Doing the same in starter tutorial complexes is also considered grief play and will not be tolerated.
The bolding is mine.
That said, I am pretty convinced that CCP has refunded ships to valid gank targets on occasion, including targets I have exploded, so who knows how the GM choose to enforce their policies. But I would be surprised if they ever nullified a corporation war with no extenuating circumstances since the aggressing party would have to be informed and could raise a public stink. Giving free ships to gank victims undermines the economy and the integrity of the game, but does so in a quiet way.
EDIT: The link doesn't seem to work so here it is in full: https://web.archive.org/web/20120503181713/http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Grief_play Black Pedro thank you for posting this.
I want to draw specific attention to this part.
"Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account."
As I stated earlier CCP is in a difficult position with war decs and this quoted segment of your post only serves to prove that. When a corp is war decced they are forced into playing the game in a way that they do not want to. Yes a WD is easily avoided but then again they are being forced into playing the game in a way that they do not want to. While CCP has routinely stated and I fully support any corps right and ability to WD another at any time and for any reason a WD that is continuously in effect over time could be and likely is in violation of this quoted segment. Taking an example if corp a WD corp b over a period of time and after a review CCP determines that one or more members of corp a have been or currently are in violation of this quoted segment and are banned. Is it not possible(even if unlikely) that CCP could invalidate the WD as a result of this situation? From a certain point of view invalidating the WD is the right and proper thing to do considering that some or all of the players that filed that WD have been suspended for violatiing the rules specifically because of the WD.
And so we get back around to where I started. If your corp has been under continuous WD by the same corp since February then file a ticket. It is extremly unlikely(although possible) that you would be reprimanded for doing so and there is a possibility that you can find relief from the WD. Nothing ventured, nothing gained seems appropriate here
And I am still waiting for that PROOF that you cannot file a ticket over a WD. And I am still waiting for the proof that you would be reprimanded if you did. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11503
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Posted - 2015.08.29 13:57:45 -
[55] - Quote
no they aren't, its not difficult in the slightest because CCP wrote:At our discretion
Better the Devil you know.
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admiral root
Red Galaxy
3233
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Posted - 2015.08.29 14:01:11 -
[56] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: And I am still waiting for the proof that you would be reprimanded if you did.
I see what you did there - rather than put yourself in a position where you later need to move the goalposts, you simply set an impssible goal in the first place. Sharing GM correspondence is against the rules.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
CODE. forum - everyone's welcome (no shiptoasters)
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11503
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Posted - 2015.08.29 14:05:16 -
[57] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Donnachadh wrote: And I am still waiting for the proof that you would be reprimanded if you did. I see what you did there - rather than put yourself in a position where you later need to move the goalposts, you simply set an impssible goal in the first place. Sharing GM correspondence is against the rules. not to mention discussion of warnings and banns also being prohibited
Better the Devil you know.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
125
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Posted - 2015.08.29 14:06:31 -
[58] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: I want to draw specific attention to this part.
"Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account."
As I stated earlier CCP is in a difficult position with war decs and this quoted segment of your post only serves to prove that. When a corp is war decced they are forced into playing the game in a way that they do not want to. Yes a WD is easily avoided but then again they are being forced into playing the game in a way that they do not want to. While CCP has routinely stated and I fully support any corps right and ability to WD another at any time and for any reason a WD that is continuously in effect over time could be and likely is in violation of this quoted segment. Taking an example if corp a WD corp b over a period of time and after a review CCP determines that one or more members of corp a have been or currently are in violation of this quoted segment and are banned. Is it not possible(even if unlikely) that CCP could invalidate the WD as a result of this situation? From a certain point of view invalidating the WD is the right and proper thing to do considering that some or all of the players that filed that WD have been suspended for violatiing the rules specifically because of the WD.
And so we get back around to where I started. If your corp has been under continuous WD by the same corp since February then file a ticket. It is extremly unlikely(although possible) that you would be reprimanded for doing so and there is a possibility that you can find relief from the WD. Nothing ventured, nothing gained seems appropriate here
And I am still waiting for that PROOF that you cannot file a ticket over a WD. And I am still waiting for the proof that you would be reprimanded if you did.
I was looking back over old info and patch notes yesterday concerning wardec amongst other things, which was a little confusing.
It seems to me that in the past you could not easily get out of a wardec so constant wardecs could be debatable over what the intent was.
But it looks like it was changed so that you could easily remove yourself from the wardec.
I think that might of been CCPs answer to not having to decide if constant wardecs were griefing or not. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
2667
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Posted - 2015.08.29 15:49:53 -
[59] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:This is the nature of the game. Just get stuck in with some friends and cheap ships. Winning is less important than the learning experience. These won't be your last wardecs if you stick with the game so get learning now.
Actually the best way to shed decs is to deny them content. People quickly tire of paying isk for no content. We are wardeced periodically (which is hilarious, living out of a hole) by the various high sec heroes and whilst we could go smash the deccers, doing so would only flag as people who entertain that sort of thing and invite more decs. So we don't bother. No content for them, no fun for them, no more wardecs from them. This will never change until the defending side has a reason to rock up and kerb stomp the aggressors beyond bragging rights/lols.
I prefer to use decs as a way to teach noobs. Since staying docked up isnt a guarantee that you wont get future decs, why not take the noobs out and teach them some basic PvP mechanics at least.
After all, they are in a corp to play with others and to compete with the greater player base, or they should be supporting social corps.
I'm all for giving defenders a reason to form up though, likely using the premature ending of a dec as incentive.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided" "So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time"
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
1879
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Posted - 2015.08.29 16:27:54 -
[60] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:afkalt wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:This is the nature of the game. Just get stuck in with some friends and cheap ships. Winning is less important than the learning experience. These won't be your last wardecs if you stick with the game so get learning now.
Actually the best way to shed decs is to deny them content. People quickly tire of paying isk for no content. We are wardeced periodically (which is hilarious, living out of a hole) by the various high sec heroes and whilst we could go smash the deccers, doing so would only flag as people who entertain that sort of thing and invite more decs. So we don't bother. No content for them, no fun for them, no more wardecs from them. This will never change until the defending side has a reason to rock up and kerb stomp the aggressors beyond bragging rights/lols. I prefer to use decs as a way to teach noobs. Since staying docked up isnt a guarantee that you wont get future decs, why not take the noobs out and teach them some basic PvP mechanics at least. After all, they are in a corp to play with others and to compete with the greater player base, or they should be supporting social corps. I'm all for giving defenders a reason to form up though, likely using the premature ending of a dec as incentive.
You mistake me: We dont dock (also living out SMA anyway :D), we just stay out of highsec more. All it means is a week of diminished personal logistics.
Our decs come from the usual mob, deccing loads of corps at once to farm easy highsec kills to pad their KB.
We deny them that, we deny them the (highsec) content and they go away. Every time.
See, despite all the wardeccer bluster about fighting everywhere (low/null/WH), they never actually do leave the shallows. |
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