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Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.08.26 22:34:42 -
[1] - Quote
I gots a Procurer and on another post I mentioned I had tanked my shields and I was thinking of placing armor rigs. A quick response was adamant about NOT DOING SO!
So I heed most advice yet - this guy said stick with shield rigs. Don't mix them up.
Okay.
So I look at the shield rigs and lo and behold they are a significant negative affect on my sig radius! A substantial negative affect on my sig radius in fact. So I re-look at the armor rigs affect and it has a drawback on my cargo hold.
So what? I use the cargo hold to store the few items I salvage from my kills. They are small.
So in this case it seems dual tanking cannot harm me. Am I wrong?
I just realized this is my alt character. No wonder people thought I was a virgin noobie. lol |
Paranoid Loyd
6770
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Posted - 2015.08.26 22:50:07 -
[2] - Quote
If you are going to dual tank, you should use bulkheads (hull) not armor.
[Procurer, 88K] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Medium Shield Extender II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.08.26 22:55:29 -
[3] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:If you are going to dual tank, you should use bulkheads (hull) not armor.
[Procurer, 88K] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Medium Shield Extender II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Thanks for this. |
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
265
|
Posted - 2015.08.26 23:08:03 -
[4] - Quote
The increased sig from those rigs is irrelevant.
You're already a large, slow, target. Being larger doesn't hurt you any extra.
If you're going for maximum EHP, hull tank rigs are what you want with the Damage Control and Bulkhead fitted. Otherwise, I think the shield rigs are the next best thing (which is useful because you can then put Laser Upgrades in the low slots). |
Ned Thomas
Stay Frosty. A Band Apart.
1763
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Posted - 2015.08.26 23:50:55 -
[5] - Quote
Just to point out, the "Transverse Bulkhead" rigs listed on Loyd's fit are actually rigs that affect you hull hp, not armor hp. The drawback to these is, in fact, a loss of cargo space, but that loss only affects the ships regular cargohold. Specialty holds like the Procurer's ore hold are unaffected. These are different than armor rigs, which have a drawback of reducing your ship's maximum speed. Try not to mix the two up.
(Note: I know that the bulkhead rigs show up in the Armor Rigs market category. This is because they're a fairly New item and are the only rig that affect hull hp positively. CCP got a little lazy here and just stuck them in with Armor rigs. They are not armor rigs)
Having said all that, I used a set up similar to what Loyd posted, except I split my three rigs between anti-em, anti-therm, and anti-kinetic rigs and used a medium ancillary shield booster instead of an EM ward field. This gave me a nice amount of ehp and thick shield resistences, plus some strong active reps in the event I needed them.
A Band Apart needs you!
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
722
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Posted - 2015.08.27 00:22:35 -
[6] - Quote
I did some quick math. On an all level 5 character in a proc with a T1 strip and 2 T2 MLUs and assuming you are solo mining veld with no fleet boost and no orca / rorqual boosts and assuming you sell the ore for jita buy prices you will make about 1.4 million per hour more by fitting for yeild than fitting for all tank.
Given that the ship and 3 mods goes for 26 million currently that means you you need to get about 18 more hours of minning time out of the proc fit for yield than out of the one fit for tank before it pays for it's self.
Since this is pretty much a worst case scenario (except for skills) anything other than this pretty much reduces that 18 hours.
The one qualifier that I will add is that is 18 hours of mining lazor up time. All the normal mining stuff like docking to unload and time lost on small roids etc.. still need to be figured in.
What I am trying to say is that the 19% or so boost that you get from the MLUs can pay for a new ship in not too long. However often one extreme over the other is not a good way to go about things. So maybe there is a happy medium between max yield and max tank.
Also just being in fleet with someone with passive leadership skills can get you 10% more shield and 10% more armor HP as well as 10% more yield as well as friends in the same system with you. As with most situations in Eve your challenges are more easily over come with friends than with modules. |
Memphis Baas
511
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Posted - 2015.08.27 00:30:18 -
[7] - Quote
Dual tanking in general harms you because each ship is limited in the following:
- high slots, medium slots, low slots, rig slots - power grid, CPU - capacitor recharge (provides energy to run things)
So, you have the free slots, but trying to put in shields AND armor will only allocate about half the powergrid to each kind of defense. Powergrid is very limiting in most non-combat ships, and often you can super-size the shields (with shield extenders) or armor (with armor plates) if you have good Engineering / Energy skills and a good fit. For example, most cruisers typically use cruiser-sized armor or shields, but if you eliminate the guns and rely on drones on a Vexor cruiser, you can put in battleship-sized (large) shield extenders or armor plates (this doubles the defense).
Typically, combat goes like this: attacker appears, locks you up, and then shoots you with everything he's got. It's better to have one big defense that can withstand that, than to have 2 weak defenses that are going to be chewed up sequentially.
As far as sig radius, it matters a lot for frigates. A mining barge is way too slow to take advantage of speed tanking, agility, or any of the tricks that the frigates use to survive. The barge is paper-thin, but behaves like a (slow) cruiser, so you have to defend it as one (install armor or shields, rather than rely on agility).
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Snuffed Out
8544
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 00:34:31 -
[8] - Quote
The reason you are not supposed to duel tank is because....
Memphis Baas wrote:When an enemy sees you, they will shoot you with everything they have. Defending against that is like defending against a tsunami wave: you put all the effort into making the tallest wall possible, rather than 2 smaller walls.
Your ship will have a limited number of slots, and limited power and CPU for modules, so if you're going to tank it, put all that power and the maximum number of slots that you can use into making one big defense (shields, or armor), rather than two small defenses. Keep in mind... certain rigs add on a percentage of extra armor/shields/hull... so you want to slap on a rig that beefs up the highest raw HP value.
Also... there are really only 2 fits for a Procurer...
[Procurer, CAN'TGANKMENOW] Damage Control II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Thermic Dissipation Amplifier II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
- With max skills it has ~81,000 effective hp... which is stupid high for a ship of its class and price (NOTE: it would take a minimum of 10 to 15 destroyers to gank this ship in 0.5 space... more if it is in a higher security system. This requires concerted effort on the part of gankers to kill it... so they will leave you be as they have easier targets to pick from)
- Keep the ECM drones out and set to "Aggressive" for an added layer of safety (they have a good chance of jamming the first person to shoot you). Use the Hobgoblins to kill annoying NPCs and "abandon" those wrecks as soon as you make them.
[Procurer, NOimmagankYOU] Drone Damage Amplifier II Damage Control II
Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II
Strip Miner I
Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Hornet EC-300 x5
- with max skills it has ~64,000 effective hp... but it can now keep hostiles from escaping!
- ~170 damage per second is not good, but not terrible either. It can certainly grind down some frigates and Tech 1 destroyers with relative ease. Tech 2 frigates it can kill with some difficulty. Anything beyond that and you need help.
How did you Veterans start?
The Skillpoint System and You
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1488
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Posted - 2015.08.27 02:15:48 -
[9] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:- Keep the ECM drones out and set to "Aggressive" for an added layer of safety (they have a good chance of jamming the first person to shoot you). Use the Hobgoblins to kill annoying NPCs and "abandon" those wrecks as soon as you make them. afaik drones don't do that anymore. Remember seeing a post saying drones wouldn't ever do anything that would create a limited engagement without direct player input. Think it was part of the mobile depot drone aggro fix or something
@ChainsawPlankto
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Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
266
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 03:06:04 -
[10] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:ShahFluffers wrote:- Keep the ECM drones out and set to "Aggressive" for an added layer of safety (they have a good chance of jamming the first person to shoot you). Use the Hobgoblins to kill annoying NPCs and "abandon" those wrecks as soon as you make them. afaik drones don't do that anymore. Remember seeing a post saying drones wouldn't ever do anything that would create a limited engagement without direct player input. Think it was part of the mobile depot drone aggro fix or something You being aggressed creates a LE.
You're confusing it with auto aggressing people that shoot your MTUs... which did get patched out. |
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Harry Forever
SpaceJunkys
1255
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Posted - 2015.08.27 05:24:38 -
[11] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:If you are going to dual tank, you should use bulkheads (hull) not armor.
[Procurer, 88K] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Medium Shield Extender II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I
Loyd must know he lost 2000 ships in 2 years
SpaceJunkys on YouTube - Harry Forever on the Forums
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Bitevni Shalina
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.08.27 07:12:47 -
[12] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:If you are going to dual tank, you should use bulkheads (hull) not armor.
[Procurer, 88K] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Medium Shield Extender II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Loyd must know the right fit, he only lost 2000 ships this year
Modulated Strip Miner II without mining crystal? Yield will be lower, than with Modulated Strip Miner I... Very few gankers use trashers - most use catalysts and so EM hardener is useless. I think I posted much better fits with relevant stats in OP's other thread about very same matter. |
Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
77
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 08:51:25 -
[13] - Quote
Tbh, a procurer isn't exactly a logical target to go for because it already has way more EHP than its counterparts. Because of that you just have to add some resists/extenders and then you're fine to add modules that augment your mining as there's really no need for this "must maximise my EHP at all cost because :reasons:" hysteria.
[Procurer, Tanked] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Survey Scanner II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5 |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1350
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 09:34:45 -
[14] - Quote
Rawketsled wrote:[You being aggressed creates a LE.
You're confusing it with auto aggressing people that shoot your MTUs... which did get patched out.
Wrong, if you perform no hostile action you do not get a limited engagement timer. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
816
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 10:09:59 -
[15] - Quote
0/10 no DCU would not mine with.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
79
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Posted - 2015.08.27 11:40:59 -
[16] - Quote
Yang Aurilen wrote:0/10 no DCU would not mine with.
Procurer doesn't need a DCU. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5524
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 11:42:43 -
[17] - Quote
https://o.smium.org/loadout/37949 is also an option
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 12:36:50 -
[18] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Dual tanking in general harms you because each ship is limited in the following:
- high slots, medium slots, low slots, rig slots - power grid, CPU - capacitor recharge (provides energy to run things)
So, you have the free slots, but trying to put in shields AND armor will only allocate about half the powergrid to each kind of defense. Powergrid is very limiting in most non-combat ships, and often you can super-size the shields (with shield extenders) or armor (with armor plates) if you have good Engineering / Energy skills and a good fit. For example, most cruisers typically use cruiser-sized armor or shields, but if you eliminate the guns (free up some powergrid) and rely on drones on a Vexor cruiser, you can put in battleship-sized (large) shield extenders or armor plates (this doubles the defense).
Typically, combat goes like this: attacker appears, locks you up, and then shoots you with everything he's got, guns, missiles, drones, overheated, everything. It's better to have one big defense that can withstand that, than to have 2 weak defenses that are going to be chewed up sequentially.
As far as sig radius, it matters a lot for frigates. A mining barge is way too slow to take advantage of speed tanking, agility, or any of the tricks that the frigates use to survive. The barge is paper-thin, but behaves like a (slow) cruiser, so you have to defend it as one (install armor or shields, rather than rely on agility).
Thanks for replying.
My capacitor is huge on this ship with my skills. It barely depletes with everything on now and I have 4 shield thingys in mid, and two MLU I's in low and the strip miner in hi. My shields already are not weak and bolstering my armor seems prudent. My shields are at 10K+ so it seems pretty good, everything being relative. My hull is at 6875. Is this paper thin? Sure, compared to a capital ship.
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Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 12:50:45 -
[19] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:Just to point out, the "Transverse Bulkhead" rigs listed on Loyd's fit are actually rigs that affect you hull hp, not armor hp. The drawback to these is, in fact, a loss of cargo space, but that loss only affects the ships regular cargohold. Specialty holds like the Procurer's ore hold are unaffected. These are different than armor rigs, which have a drawback of reducing your ship's maximum speed. Try not to mix the two up.
(Note: I know that the bulkhead rigs show up in the Armor Rigs market category. This is because they're a fairly New item and are the only rig that affect hull hp positively. CCP got a little lazy here and just stuck them in with Armor rigs. They are not armor rigs)
Having said all that, I used a set up similar to what Loyd posted, except I split my three rigs between anti-em, anti-therm, and anti-kinetic rigs and used a medium ancillary shield booster instead of an EM ward field. This gave me a nice amount of ehp and thick shield resistences, plus some strong active reps in the event I needed them.
Good point about the bulkhead reinforcement. It seems to me that tanking the hull is the scary way to go for me. If they got past my shields then my armor and they are working on tearing down my hull, my BP would go through the roof.
I guess it would best for me to tank shields. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1350
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 12:59:05 -
[20] - Quote
Hull tank is awesome, your shields and armour go and then you just see your Hull hp stuck as if it were bugged :p
also a lot of the time lulls people into a false sense of security/confidence |
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Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2015.08.27 13:02:49 -
[21] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Tbh, a procurer isn't exactly a logical target to go for because it already has way more EHP than its counterparts. Because of that you just have to add some resists/extenders and then you're fine to add modules that augment your mining as there's really no need for this "must maximise my EHP at all cost because :reasons:" hysteria.
[Procurer, Tanked] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Survey Scanner II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5
Your fit is nearly the exact fit I was going to try. How was your results the times your were ganked? What is the total HP with your fit? I feel the purpose of the procurer is mining first and tanking second. Once the mining is maxed, use the rest for tanking the shields is the thoughts I have on this but it is untested by me.
THanks for replying. |
Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 13:15:14 -
[22] - Quote
Bitevni Shalina wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:If you are going to dual tank, you should use bulkheads (hull) not armor.
[Procurer, 88K] Damage Control II Reinforced Bulkheads II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II EM Ward Field II Medium Shield Extender II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Medium Transverse Bulkhead I Loyd must know the right fit, he only lost 2000 ships this year Modulated Strip Miner II without mining crystal? Yield will be lower, than with Modulated Strip Miner I... Very few gankers use trashers - most use catalysts and so EM hardener is useless. I think I posted much better fits with relevant stats in OP's other thread about very same matter.
THe other post started out as a question about MLU's on strip miners and it expanded, as most threads do, to tanking. I wanted to catch other peoples' views on tanking a Procurer that were not following my OP. It worked.
I am sorry that you had to read the same subject twice and I appreciate your help. |
Tiberius Heth
Say No to Features
80
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 13:18:09 -
[23] - Quote
Abraham Kennedy wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:Tbh, a procurer isn't exactly a logical target to go for because it already has way more EHP than its counterparts. Because of that you just have to add some resists/extenders and then you're fine to add modules that augment your mining as there's really no need for this "must maximise my EHP at all cost because :reasons:" hysteria.
[Procurer, Tanked] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Survey Scanner II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5 Your fit is nearly the exact fit I was going to try. How was your results the times your were ganked? What is the total HP with your fit? I feel the purpose of the procurer is mining first and tanking second. Once the mining is maxed, use the rest for tanking the shields is the thoughts I have on this but it is untested by me. THanks for replying.
Against the damage types that matter you have 60+K EHP which is in the realms of "more than enough" to avoid casual ganking, they'll simply go for another target. Would you make it personal somehow, in that they're going for you rather than just a random miner then no amount of tank will save you so there's no point in even trying. A fit like that is enough to mine in 0.5 space (again, assuming you're not standing out somehow) without issues.
They will scan your ship, some random venture will enter your belt and will start mining but it's actually a scout providing intel and warp in. Your best defense is to not be a target in the first place which means flying the right ship with the right modules while not having silly expensive stuff onboard. If you fit the tank as listed, perhaps with some named invuls, then they'll do the math and come to the conclusion that there's far easier and juicier targets to gank so they will leave you alone. |
Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 13:23:39 -
[24] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Hull tank is awesome, your shields and armour go and then you just see your Hull hp stuck as if it were bugged :p
also a lot of the time lulls people into a false sense of security/confidence
I am not sure I understand your post. Did you say if you tank your hull, the damage only goes so far to your hulls then stops? I cannot see the hull being invulnerable ever, otherwise everyone would do it and no ships would get destroyed.
What did you mean please? |
Abraham Kennedy
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 13:42:15 -
[25] - Quote
Tiberius Heth wrote:Abraham Kennedy wrote:Tiberius Heth wrote:Tbh, a procurer isn't exactly a logical target to go for because it already has way more EHP than its counterparts. Because of that you just have to add some resists/extenders and then you're fine to add modules that augment your mining as there's really no need for this "must maximise my EHP at all cost because :reasons:" hysteria.
[Procurer, Tanked] Mining Laser Upgrade II Mining Laser Upgrade II
Survey Scanner II Medium Shield Extender II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Modulated Strip Miner II, Veldspar Mining Crystal I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5 Mining Drone II x5 Your fit is nearly the exact fit I was going to try. How was your results the times your were ganked? What is the total HP with your fit? I feel the purpose of the procurer is mining first and tanking second. Once the mining is maxed, use the rest for tanking the shields is the thoughts I have on this but it is untested by me. THanks for replying. Against the damage types that matter you have 60+K EHP which is in the realms of "more than enough" to avoid casual ganking, they'll simply go for another target. Would you make it personal somehow, in that they're going for you rather than just a random miner then no amount of tank will save you so there's no point in even trying. A fit like that is enough to mine in 0.5 space (again, assuming you're not standing out somehow) without issues. They will scan your ship, some random venture will enter your belt and will start mining but it's actually a scout providing intel and warp in. Your best defense is to not be a target in the first place which means flying the right ship with the right modules while not having silly expensive stuff onboard. If you fit the tank as listed, perhaps with some named invuls, then they'll do the math and come to the conclusion that there's far easier and juicier targets to gank so they will leave you alone.
EXCELLENT ADVICE! THere is no need for me to fly to lo-sec with this ship right now. I am already making good ore income in the area I am based now and I don't see it changing so quickly that I will need to move. The NPC's that attack me now are just gnats with this set up, due to my drone skills, and I constantly watch local. If I see more than one red-painted enter my system, I prepare for leaving and warp if they stay too long, as if they are d-scanning. I've picked a system nearby that has low traffic right now and I've learned the names of the residents.
Right now I am in a good spot. {yes yes yes, I understand how things change in EVE, trolling readers} |
Paranoid Loyd
6772
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Posted - 2015.08.27 13:49:07 -
[26] - Quote
Harry Forever wrote:Loyd must know the right fit, he only lost 2000 ships this year Learn to read a KB Harry, the 2000 ships have been lost over a 2 year period. Approximately half of those losses are the loss of a shuttle when I pull concord off the gate. Of the other half 98% of those losses where planned to be losses and those losses resulted in a net gain of approximately 200 mil isk per loss based on an average kill of 400 mil.
TL;DR I have made approximately 200 bil isk by losing 2000 ship.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Get Off My Lawn
1655
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Posted - 2015.08.27 16:07:24 -
[27] - Quote
Abraham Kennedy wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Hull tank is awesome, your shields and armour go and then you just see your Hull hp stuck as if it were bugged :p
also a lot of the time lulls people into a false sense of security/confidence I am not sure I understand your post. Did you say if you tank your hull, the damage only goes so far to your hulls then stops? I cannot see the hull being invulnerable ever, otherwise everyone would do it and no ships would get destroyed. What did you mean please?
No, he just means that you have so many Hull hitpoints that it does down very slowly. Normally Hull goes disturbingly fast.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So, why do I post here?
I'm stubborn.
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Bellatrix Invicta
The Conference Elite CODE.
294
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Posted - 2015.08.27 16:10:18 -
[28] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Harry Forever wrote:Loyd must know the right fit, he only lost 2000 ships this year Learn to read a KB Harry, the 2000 ships have been lost over a 2 year period. Approximately half of those losses are the loss of a shuttle when I pull concord off the gate. Of the other half, 98% of those losses where planned to be losses and those losses resulted in a net gain of approximately 200 mil isk per loss based on an average kill of 400 mil. TL;DR I have made approximately 200 bil isk by losing 2000 ship.
TL;RDR Shut up, Harry.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
727
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 16:56:15 -
[29] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:Hull tank is awesome, your shields and armour go and then you just see your Hull hp stuck as if it were bugged :p
also a lot of the time lulls people into a false sense of security/confidence For this reason hull tank is often referred to as bait tank |
zzzra
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2015.08.27 17:08:57 -
[30] - Quote
With a procurer without a survey scanner I'm finding that overmining... that is finding out at the end of a cycle that the asteroid is empty is happening roughly 1 cycle out of 3. If we assume it's at a random time during that cycle, on average you will be wasting half of every third cycle, or 1/6 = 16%. You can avoid this to some degree by turning the miner off and on repeatedly, if you have the capacitor to do that.
I'm thinking that the price of a middle slot for a survey scanner is good value for getting back a good portion of this 16%. Much better value than a mining upgrade in place of damage control in a low slot.
The overmining is a trap that doesnt show up when you compare the mining rates of the covetor and procurer on eft. It looks like the procurer cones reasonably close in yield, but the overmining is so much more of a problem on the procurer. That's because the covetor laser might clear a roid in about 2-3 cycles but a covetor laser might take 6-7. So the half cycle you lose at the end is a larger % for the procurer.
The survey scanner isn't someting I'd bother with on a covetor, not only because there is less wastage to worry about but also its hard work trying to organize it with 3 lasers. Which laser is minging which rock etc etc.
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