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Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing
603
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Posted - 2015.08.28 06:52:21 -
[1] - Quote
So for about 30 minutes I was toying with the idea of "maining" as a ferox pilot since I've made the mistake of focusing on hybrids instead of missiles.
So I built myself a ferox, fitted it out with rails and took a look at the dps.
It has less DPS than the Moa. It's slower than a moa, so it can't be used as a brawler. A brawler moa vs a brawler ferox = moa outclasses it in all aspects.
So I try to take into account the benefit the ferox gets for each battlecruiser level. Increased range.
Alright, so the ferox is suppose to be a mini-rokh, mega-cormorant? Sit back at 50km and pepper people with super high 250 dps.
I dunno, I guess this is just a bit of a rant post. The ferox is just so. . . Meh. Very underwhelming. |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
926
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Posted - 2015.08.28 07:15:31 -
[2] - Quote
-_- Tank... not sure how you missed that....
Ferrox is a great newbro ship for mid size roaming, chunky tank, 600dps and a set of tackle. Nobody primaries a ferox lol
No Worries
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
336
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Posted - 2015.08.28 07:32:24 -
[3] - Quote
The Ferox is the Drake of Hybrids. That said you technically haven't wasted training going into hybrids. For one the gunnery support skills will be used with lasers and projectiles and for another when you cross train into Gal there are some really great hulls there to play with (Deimos, Prot, Astarte, etc.)
In fact if your interest is in PvP I'd probably start that cross train into Gal sooner rather than later. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1498
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Posted - 2015.08.28 07:54:52 -
[4] - Quote
afaik the ferox has never really been all that good. but it does appear to out damage the moa, granted not by much, oh and it has a better drone bay. yea I'm not really going on much here.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Anize Oramara
The Arch Dashing Dashers
336
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Posted - 2015.08.28 08:04:30 -
[5] - Quote
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:afaik the ferox has never really been all that good. but it does appear to out damage the moa, granted not by much, oh and it has a better drone bay. yea I'm not really going on much here. Yea it's a little sad, it was my first BC hull back in the day and i really like the look of it. Not even the vulture is anything to write home about, pretty much being blown out of the water by the Astarte. The range is nice though but not really of any use most of the time. |
Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing
603
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Posted - 2015.08.28 08:21:25 -
[6] - Quote
The only way a ferox can have higher dps than a level 5 moa is if the ferox has very good drone skills, talking level 4-5 across the board. Even then it's only a matter of 10-15 extra dps.
I have a moa and a ferox right now and I'm switching between the two and because of the subpar drone skills, the Ferox's DPS is higher by 4.8, and that's only because of the 2 extra drones making up for the lesser overall blaster DPS.
The Ferox does seem like it'd be OK sitting back at a distance and slowly peppering enemies. But it's lack of mobility compared to moa, I can't really see too many reasons why I'd want to take it over the moa. I could just sit back in the moa and do the same, just from a bit closer range.
I don't really know though, it just feels that when compared to what's possible between the two, there's more reasons to fly the moa than the ferox. Maybe further down the line when I can attach a link onto it? But the powergrid isn't really well set up for it to be able to dps/tank/AND supply a link. |
Valkin Mordirc
1433
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Posted - 2015.08.28 10:28:55 -
[7] - Quote
The Ferox can project farther out than a Moa can. With AM and 250mm you are looking at a 9km difference, with Thorium you have 16km difference.
The Ferox is by far easier to fit 250mm rails then a Moa, a Moa is more likely to have 200mm Rails, which means the Ferox can project out even farther.
A Ferox fitted 250mm and Thorium will deal just under the dps of Moa with 200mm and Antimatter. But Thorium gets better ranges so again you project at longer ranges.
Ferox can also MJD.
Also the Ferox gets about 14k to 17k more EHP than a Moa.
If the Ferox good? I dunno. RvB used them against the Mercs when they decced Sengirs corp. And absolutely destroyed them. It need proper tackle support and a good logi wing but they burned a fleet made up of Battleships and T3's.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
983
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Posted - 2015.08.28 11:57:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Utility Hi Slot by itself is worth a lot. And with guns alone, the Ferox does about 11% more dps, versus a Cruiser 5 Moa.
So, I'm not really feeling this whine.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
366
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Posted - 2015.08.28 12:02:33 -
[9] - Quote
Can't recall the optimal of a rail ferox, but I would imagine that being able to hit targets out to 100km, and suddenly just MJD your fleet on top of them for instant tackle is a pretty significant advantage over a ship like the moa. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
1505
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Posted - 2015.08.28 18:43:41 -
[10] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:The only way a ferox can have higher dps than a level 5 moa is if the ferox has very good drone skills, talking level 4-5 across the board. Even then it's only a matter of 10-15 extra dps.
I have a moa and a ferox right now and I'm switching between the two and because of the subpar drone skills, the Ferox's DPS is higher by 4.8, and that's only because of the 2 extra drones making up for the lesser overall blaster DPS. EFT is saying with the same guns, ammo, and same number of damage mods the ferox has higher dps without using drones. Add in that the moa is probably using smaller guns and ferox should be doing even more damage.
@ChainsawPlankto
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Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
1239
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Posted - 2015.08.28 19:24:39 -
[11] - Quote
SFM Hobb3s wrote:Can't recall the optimal of a rail ferox, but I would imagine that being able to hit targets out to 100km, and suddenly just MJD your fleet on top of them for instant tackle is a pretty significant advantage over a ship like the moa.
Taking a rather cheapish Ferox, it does have a lot of tank and range. Very new bros might be better off with three LSEs and a RCU instead. After insurance, you're looking at 35-40mil each, maybe less. |
Tiddle Jr
Galvanized Inc.
434
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Posted - 2015.08.28 21:35:05 -
[12] - Quote
The only thing i could say is it's a cheap railgu. And good ship to run lvl3. |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
153
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Posted - 2015.08.29 15:41:37 -
[13] - Quote
To me the Ferox is a solid L3 ship. It has tank and gank at the same time. (other fits may vary)
Comparing the Ferox to a Moa is . . . why again?
A Moa with 250's leaves it lacking room for a good tank. It should be fitted with 200's, and it does very well with those.
So I fitted each accordingly, using same character for each, and will let those numbers speak for themselves:
Moa: 5 x 200mm T2, Caldari Antimatter, 4 x MFS II
fall off range - 26km optimal range - 18km 461 dps (no drones)
Moa: 5 x 250mm T2, Caldari Antimatter, 4 x MFS II
fall off - 33km optimal - 18km 484 dps (no drones)
Ferox: 7 x 250mm T2, Caldari Antimatter, 4 x MFS II
fall off - 40km optimal - 25km 565 dps (no drones)
Now my sooped-up Ferox (my alt uses) does a little better: 7 x 250mm T2, Caldari antimatter, 4 x Fed MFS II, 2 x Tracking Computer II
fall off - 59km optimal - 31km 625dps (no drones)
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing
605
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Posted - 2015.09.14 07:07:12 -
[14] - Quote
With the tweaks of combat battlecruisers looming, how do you think the ferox will fare?
I'm thinking it's going to be around a what, 13% (guess) DPS increase with a huge massive hit to it's defenses?
Not sure if it'll hurt or help it. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
198
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Posted - 2015.09.14 07:55:05 -
[15] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:With the tweaks of combat battlecruisers looming, how do you think the ferox will fare?
I'm thinking it's going to be around a what, 13% (guess) DPS increase with a huge massive hit to it's defenses?
Not sure if it'll hurt or help it. It's not a hit to defences. It's a +1 mid and +fitting (one less turret). Meaning you can choose between defence (add an invul in that new mid and you get the old ferox more or less) and utility (or more range via extra TC).
Well, an invul eats more CPU than any gun, but currently any ferox fit runs out of PG long before CPU. |
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.14 08:29:38 -
[16] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:With the tweaks of combat battlecruisers looming, how do you think the ferox will fare?
I'm thinking it's going to be around a what, 13% (guess) DPS increase with a huge massive hit to it's defenses?
Not sure if it'll hurt or help it.
It's going from 7 effective turrets to 7.5, roughly a 7% increase. Swap resist bonus for an extra midslot is more versatile and useful for pve at least, and much better range is always good.
Think the Ferox is coming out of this the happiest. Not like the poor 'cane getting another nerf... |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
198
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Posted - 2015.09.14 08:41:41 -
[17] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:Not like the poor 'cane getting another nerf... But cane's gonna b gut. Simple cane gets AC falloff which is what it lacks. Fleet cane gets murder arty of killer death from hell. |
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.14 09:29:57 -
[18] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:The Bigpuns wrote:Not like the poor 'cane getting another nerf... But cane's gonna b gut. Simple cane gets AC falloff which is what it lacks. Fleet cane gets murder arty of killer death from hell.
Sorry yes, misread that, thought plain cane was getting the same dps nerf. It benefits, but not by as much as the ferox.
But fleet cane, 10% dps loss for a falloff gain? You need to be quite far into falloff for the bonus to compensate for the nerf.
And I'm not a pvp'er, but swarms of alpha arty fleet canes sounds quite niche to me, are they a thing, or will they become things after this? |
ChromeStriker
Out of Focus Odin's Call
942
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Posted - 2015.09.14 10:14:52 -
[19] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:Torgeir Hekard wrote:The Bigpuns wrote:Not like the poor 'cane getting another nerf... But cane's gonna b gut. Simple cane gets AC falloff which is what it lacks. Fleet cane gets murder arty of killer death from hell. Sorry yes, misread that, thought plain cane was getting the same dps nerf. It benefits, but not by as much as the ferox. But fleet cane, 10% dps loss for a falloff gain? You need to be quite far into falloff for the bonus to compensate for the nerf. And I'm not a pvp'er, but swarms of alpha arty fleet canes sounds quite niche to me, are they a thing, or will they become things after this?
.... The Fleet cane is gaining the full flight of medium drones and its 5% dmg bonus is bing increased to 10% ... the dmg loss is going to be minimal if at all.... for the added bonuses of increased trcking AND the long needed falloff increase
Its going to be good :D
No Worries
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Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing
605
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Posted - 2015.09.14 10:18:36 -
[20] - Quote
Yea I don't really get the 7.5 turret thing.
How does taking away a turret, 7-1, end up equaling 7.5?
Are they implying that after factoring in level 5 damage bonuses that it ends up being 7.5 total compared to the 7 before the minus one's flat damage with no dps bonus?
Which if that's the case, the dps loss for anyone without level 5 cal BC is going to really hurt. Probably even cause them to stop flying the ferox until the complete 28 day level 5 training prerequisite is finished. Which will result in less people flying the ferox, the opposite of this change's intention? |
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Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
198
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Posted - 2015.09.14 10:24:52 -
[21] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote: But fleet cane, 10% dps loss for a falloff gain? You need to be quite far into falloff for the bonus to compensate for the nerf.
That's falloff and optimal gain. AND a tracking bonus. Fleet cane doesn't currently have a tracking bonus. That's minimal dps loss (if you exclude drones) for a substantial application boost. Essentially it will be doing more damage on anything that's not sitting close at zero transversal. AND it will have alpha second only to sleip among the medium guns. Around 4,5K volley on faction close range ammo (RF EMP and the like) with 3 gyros or 3K volley on tracking ammo (RF DU/TS). With a tracking, optimal and falloff bonus. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
198
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Posted - 2015.09.14 10:28:53 -
[22] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Yea I don't really get the 7.5 turret thing.
How does taking away a turret, 7-1, end up equaling 7.5?
Are they implying that after factoring in level 5 damage bonuses that it ends up being 7.5 total compared to the 7 before the minus one's flat damage with no dps bonus?
Which if that's the case, the dps loss for anyone without level 5 cal BC is going to really hurt. Probably even cause them to stop flying the ferox until the complete 28 day level 5 training prerequisite is finished. Which will result in less people flying the ferox, the opposite of this change's intention? It's 7.5 with BC5 or 7.2 with BC4 which is still more than 7. Moreover, with rails an optimal range bonus is pretty much equal to damage bonus, because you can use more damaging ammo on the same range. And the ferox is arguably getting the most from the range bonus, because rails benefit from both optimal and falloff. |
Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing
605
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Posted - 2015.09.14 10:35:33 -
[23] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote:Yea I don't really get the 7.5 turret thing.
How does taking away a turret, 7-1, end up equaling 7.5?
Are they implying that after factoring in level 5 damage bonuses that it ends up being 7.5 total compared to the 7 before the minus one's flat damage with no dps bonus?
Which if that's the case, the dps loss for anyone without level 5 cal BC is going to really hurt. Probably even cause them to stop flying the ferox until the complete 28 day level 5 training prerequisite is finished. Which will result in less people flying the ferox, the opposite of this change's intention? It's 7.5 with BC5 or 7.2 with BC4 which is still more than 7. Moreover, with rails an optimal range bonus is pretty much equal to damage bonus, because you can use more damaging ammo on the same range. And the ferox is arguably getting the most from the range bonus, because rails benefit from both optimal and falloff.
Better than nothing I suppose. It's range bonus is already active so that 7.0--->7.2 difference is probably going to be near negligible. It's the shield bonus removal that worries me. |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
198
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Posted - 2015.09.14 10:40:32 -
[24] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote: Better than nothing I suppose. It's range bonus is already active so that 7.0--->7.2 difference is probably going to be near negligible. It's the shield bonus removal that worries me.
Range bonus is not active. Now it only has 10% per level. It will get 25% optimal/fallof ON TOP OF THAT. So a double range bonus. And the shield bonus is offset by a mid you can use for an invul. |
Divine Entervention
Legion's Knights Of The Round Intrepid Crossing
605
|
Posted - 2015.09.14 10:57:29 -
[25] - Quote
Torgeir Hekard wrote:Divine Entervention wrote: Better than nothing I suppose. It's range bonus is already active so that 7.0--->7.2 difference is probably going to be near negligible. It's the shield bonus removal that worries me.
Range bonus is not active. Now it only has 10% per level. It will get 25% optimal/fallof ON TOP OF THAT. So a double range bonus. And the shield bonus is offset by a mid you can use for an invul.
Well that sounds promising.
I hold onto these BPC's. |
Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
647
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Posted - 2015.09.29 18:43:22 -
[26] - Quote
Alright so how's the ferox doing after this battlecruiser update? |
Uriam Khanid
New Machinarium Corporation
12
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Posted - 2015.09.29 22:05:54 -
[27] - Quote
Divine Entervention wrote:Alright so how's the ferox doing after this battlecruiser update?
a little better. just a little. |
Ion Kirst
KIRSTONE ALLIANCE
153
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Posted - 2015.09.29 23:58:28 -
[28] - Quote
Because of the new changes to the Ferox, this is a follow up posting. Go back and take a look at post #13.
. . . not only did they give the Ferox a 6th mid slot (yeah), they gave it more gank. Even at the expense of going from 7 turrets to 6, it does much better with the new bonuses. Of course when you gain something you lose some thing. The 4% resists have been eliminated, that is no big deal. The Ferox's fall-off and optimal have been increased, along with the dps.
From the numbers in post #13 you can add these new ones:
6x250mm T2, Caldari antimatter, 4xMFSII (same character, same implants, same same)
fall off - 52 km (old 40km) optimal - 33km (old 25km) 628dps - (old 565)
So, IMHO, the Ferox is much better. (when you eliminate targets quicker, you can get away with less tank.)
-Kirst
Always remember Tovil-Toba, and what was done there.
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Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
1067
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Posted - 2015.09.30 00:52:33 -
[29] - Quote
Blasterox is a lot nicer now.
Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.
I invented Tiericide
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Divine Entervention
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
647
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Posted - 2015.09.30 09:00:31 -
[30] - Quote
NExt day or so I should be able to personally check the ferox out and determine if it's worthy of the Divine Seal of Approval. |
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