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Amanda Rekenwhith
Bureau of CODE Enforcement CODE.
20
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Posted - 2015.08.31 06:58:25 -
[1] - Quote
I'm looking for a cat fit that can hold up to the gate guns long enough to pop a Tayra or other T1 industrial. Also does system security status matter? 1.0 vs 0.5 etc.
For dessert we're offering humble pie. -įWould you like some after you're done eating crow?
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Dreadchain
Lavateinn
125
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Posted - 2015.08.31 08:09:59 -
[2] - Quote
Cats simply don't tank too well - it's a stretch just to fit the blasters on it, not to mention their range makes their usefulness limited on gates if you're -10.
Most people prefer T1 cruisers for this sort of activity. They're an intermediate between a Catalyst and a Talos as far as the ISK to DPS ratio goes. Yet they can squeeze in just enough tank to survive on gate before concord drops by.
For example, a Vexor can dish out up to 1100 DPS, typically around 1000. Mallers and Moas make their appereance as well. Thrashers will also work for some less tanky targets, even industrials. Tornadoes and Taloses are for the bigger fish.
Do correct me if I'm wrong though, I don't do that much gate ganking.
www.minerbumping.com
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Valkin Mordirc
1444
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Posted - 2015.08.31 08:30:51 -
[3] - Quote
I've been only ganked once, and it was in a T1 cruiser. It was in a Vexor so I would probably suggest that,
#DeleteTheWeak
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Mag's
the united
20178
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Posted - 2015.08.31 09:41:44 -
[4] - Quote
You've no chance in low sec, never mind high. In low we had frigs on that gate, but with logi. Plus I may be wrong, but I'm sure that gate guns in high are more powerful.
(yes I know the question was regarding a dessy)
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
611
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Posted - 2015.08.31 10:32:16 -
[5] - Quote
The Vexor is the standard choice. See ParanoidLoyd's killboard for details. |
Malt Zedong
WorldTradersGuild.Com
18
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Posted - 2015.08.31 12:02:32 -
[6] - Quote
IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.
If it is personal, it is stupid.
If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.
WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
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Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
233
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Posted - 2015.08.31 12:38:10 -
[7] - Quote
IIRC 1.0 and 0.9 have 8 gate guns vs 6 on 0.8-0.5, but I can't log in to check ATM. Never seen a rail Catalyst for gate ganks, but assuming it's been tried and doesn't work so great or I'd see more Cat wrecks on gates instead of Thrashers.
Malt Zedong wrote:IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.
If it is personal, it is stupid.
If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future.
T1s are ganked all the time on gates with Cruisers. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2334
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Posted - 2015.08.31 13:04:53 -
[8] - Quote
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:The Vexor is the standard choice. See ParanoidLoyd's killboard for details. Confirming this. Paranoid Loyd is a master at doing exactly the kind of thing you're speaking of. His chip of choice is a rail Thorax, but I know other have great success with gank vexors.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
218
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Posted - 2015.08.31 13:35:53 -
[9] - Quote
In low it is impossibru without logi. In HS I've seen Vexors with gardes doing it but that was before the dda nerfs.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Paranoid Loyd
6805
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:41:12 -
[10] - Quote
Catalyst can kill untanked haulers on gates but they have to be auto-piloting. Two rail cats could theoretically kill non autopiloting haulers but if you are buying tags it is cheaper to use a single cruiser.
[Catalyst, Gate Cheap] Damage Control I Gauss Field Balancer I Gauss Field Balancer I
Limited Adaptive Invulnerability Field I Medium Subordinate Screen Stabilizer I
Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S Modal Light Ion Particle Accelerator I,Federation Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
I prefer the Thorax for a few reasons, but Vexor is still the most popular.
Sec status of system does matter, it's really only effective to use a cruiser up to .7 systems, higher than that you need to have enough alpha firepower to take out the target, this is usually accomplished with a Tornado, but Hurricane and Rupture also have their uses.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Noragen Neirfallas
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation Holy Arumbian Empire
1939
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Posted - 2015.08.31 16:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.
If it is personal, it is stupid.
If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future. Stop me if I'm wrong here (it was a little hard to understand) but are you suggesting that ganking t1 haulers doesn't happen, isn't profitable and/or CCP should nerf it if it does happen? If so...
You must be new here. Welcome to C&P Forums where we pride ourselves on being the largest collection of nefarious types in one place. And a infestation of trolls which can only be a good thing and leads to amazing concepts like our thunderdome. Also there is an etiquette thread which you may find useful for dealing with us scaliwags. I hope you enjoy your stay and I recommend not trying anything labeled 'free' around here
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
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Paranoid Loyd
6809
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:00:38 -
[12] - Quote
Confirming Zedong couldn't be anymore misinformed.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2340
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:01:38 -
[13] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:I prefer the Thorax for a few reasons... It's a phallic thing, isn't it?
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Noragen Neirfallas
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation Holy Arumbian Empire
1939
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Confirming Zedong couldn't be anymore misinformed. I'm noticing a severe trend of that in his posting history
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
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Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
2342
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:07:41 -
[15] - Quote
Malt Zedong wrote:IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.
If it is personal, it is stupid.
If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future. Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it.
Relatively Notorious By Association
My Many Misadventures
A brief history of C&P Thunderdome
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Bellatrix Invicta
New Order Logistics CODE.
422
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Posted - 2015.08.31 17:21:02 -
[16] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Malt Zedong wrote:IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.
If it is personal, it is stupid.
If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future. Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it.
Exactly this. CCP cannot support any playstyle in their game because bias. Once they do that then the floodgates are open and you may as well start selling Slushees and spun sugar at planetside stands because that would bring in the theme park.
Every playstyle is allowed, valid and seen as emergent gamplay in the eyes of CCP. This is the best thing that can be. No one breaks the rules, we all just find very creative ways to exist within them.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7106
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Posted - 2015.08.31 18:01:30 -
[17] - Quote
Tier 1 dessies have been glass cannons (or coffins) since it was just cats.
After a while you don't even bother to tank them.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Noragen Neirfallas
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation Holy Arumbian Empire
1940
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Posted - 2015.08.31 18:12:23 -
[18] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Malt Zedong wrote:IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.
If it is personal, it is stupid.
If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future. Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it. I believe the phrase used is 'mechanics working as intended' If that's not an endorsement I don't know what is
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
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Paranoid Loyd
6811
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Posted - 2015.08.31 20:07:36 -
[19] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Tier 1 dessies have been glass cannons (or coffins) since it was just cats.
After a while you don't even bother to tank them.
The exception is when the net DPS gain is more when fitting a tank than without. In the case of ganking on gates or stations, tank with downsized guns nets you more damage than a max gank setup.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
275
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Posted - 2015.09.01 02:36:50 -
[20] - Quote
Just to clarify:
Cruiser is better (vexor, thorax, rupture, Moa and maller) thrasher is the more common gate dessie but lloyds fit is how you would do it with a cat.
Nobody has yet clarified that/if we are only talking about half the industrials, the fatter weaker ones, the Iteron V and not the Nereus, the mammoth and not the wreathe.
The 1100 dps vexor mentioned is blaster/drone, not the garde rail gate ganking fit most are talking about.
Lot of bad info in this thread, listen to Lloyd and the guys he agrees with here |
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
615
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Posted - 2015.09.01 02:48:32 -
[21] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Malt Zedong wrote:IF someone is stupid enough to haul something worth lose a fight ship for in T1 undustrials, your ganking possible fit will most likely make you lose more than you have to profit.
If it is personal, it is stupid.
If you find a way to get cheap ganking fit enough to worth the trouble of ganking a T1 industrial, odds are CCP will change it. They did it in the past, they are doing it today, and they will do it in the future. Do a quick search of Iteron Mark V on any killboard and you'll see that there are plenty of T1 haulers flying around hisec that are worth ganking and that there have been for quite some time. CCP has come out not directly supporting suicide ganking, but has acknowledged that it is a valid playstyle and has no plans to change it.
Just look up ParanoidLoyd on zkillboard. He operates in a good 0.5 pipe and regularly catches idiots hauling 100M-1B worth of goodies in badly tanked or untanked T1 industrials. He doesn't feel the need to **** up the forums with trolling and attention threads but he's got the ganking for profit thing down.
If you have a couple of alts and can multibox a ganker, a hauler and a passive ship scanner, there's big bucks to be made popping dumbs hauling high value cargo in paper ships. There is a lot of that in highsec; I've done it myself a few times out of laziness. You just need to pick the right group of systems and have the proper setup.
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Demerius Xenocratus
Rapid Withdrawal
615
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Posted - 2015.09.01 02:55:06 -
[22] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:Just to clarify:
Cruiser is better (vexor, thorax, rupture, Moa and maller) thrasher is the more common gate dessie but lloyds fit is how you would do it with a cat.
Nobody has yet clarified that/if we are only talking about half the industrials, the fatter weaker ones, the Iteron V and not the Nereus, the mammoth and not the wreathe.
The 1100 dps vexor mentioned is blaster/drone, not the garde rail gate ganking fit most are talking about.
Lot of bad info in this thread, listen to Lloyd and the guys he agrees with here
There are T1 industrials designed to tank but how many people actually fit them properly?
My Nereus has almost as much EHP as a buffer cruiser, but many of the people hauling in highsec don't know how to fit a good, balanced buffer tank. Using a ship scanner + passive targeter scout (or scouts) allows you to easily identify promising targets and move your gank ship into position.
I would wager that maybe 1 in 10 of the T1 industrials I see in highsec has more than 10k EHP. So many killmails where they are unfit or half fit...it's awful.
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Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
275
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Posted - 2015.09.01 03:51:02 -
[23] - Quote
I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp. |
Amanda Rekenwhith
Bureau of CODE Enforcement CODE.
20
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Posted - 2015.09.01 06:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
I borrowed Paranoid Loyd's fit (I had to drop one of the shield rigs for a power grid boost as my skills aren't top notch) and I tore thru a Tayra in a 0.6 system. Nothing in it but I was shooting it as an experiment, not a gank. Gonna find me a good pipe. I got a hauler alt and a scanner alt. It's just getting used to using them all in concert.
Do gate/station guns delivery a certain type of damage I can tank against or do they just throw everything at you at once?
EDIT: Google is my friend. Kinetic and Thermal are the two bigger dmg types dealt.
http://eveinfo.com/npcships/99/sentry-gun/
For dessert we're offering humble pie. -įWould you like some after you're done eating crow?
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Noragen Neirfallas
Fredegar Hohenstaufen Corporation Holy Arumbian Empire
1948
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Posted - 2015.09.01 06:55:57 -
[25] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp. Digging the portrait
Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment
Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode favourite ISD
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Mortlake
Devils Rejects 666
646
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Posted - 2015.09.01 07:43:14 -
[26] - Quote
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:Tisiphone Dira wrote:I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp. Digging the portrait
Tisiphone's bio should say "Your mother sucks rocks in hell". |
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
108
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Posted - 2015.09.01 10:37:14 -
[27] - Quote
CODE member asking this stuff on eve-o forums? Now I've seen it all... |
Bellatrix Invicta
New Order Logistics CODE.
444
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Posted - 2015.09.01 14:58:28 -
[28] - Quote
Hall monitor, calm down.
If you think you've won, think again.
The CODE always wins.
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Paranoid Loyd
6816
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Posted - 2015.09.01 15:22:56 -
[29] - Quote
Tisi makes a good point, I should have specified. Bestower, Iteron, Mammoth and Tayra can easily be killed. The others all have a decent base tank relative to a gate cat's damage potential, so unless they are completely anti-tanked and you have very good skills, it's usually best to pass or ship up to a cruiser.
"Gankers are just other players, not supernatural monsters who will get you if you don't follow some arbitrary superstition. Haul responsibly and without irrational fear." Masao Kurata
Fix the Prospect!
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Tengu Grib
Black Hydra Consortium. CODE.
1405
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Posted - 2015.09.01 15:37:09 -
[30] - Quote
Tisiphone Dira wrote:I'm well aware, my kb is full of em. Not having access to eve or pyfa ATM given my and inexperience with ac thrashers (I just throw a vexor at it) or gate cats my quick eyeball of Nereus ehp says that the 4-4.7k (?) that the gate dessies can do isn't sufficient for even untanked 'beefy' (wreathe, Nereus...) t1 haulers or if it is, it's cutting it mighty close. I was just commenting on how it wasn't clear from this thread which untanked t1 haulers we are talking about, as it does seem to matter. It's not about their fits, we've established that they are unfit or anti-tanked, it's about their higher base ehp.
How is your head still attached to your shoulders? Your skill at making creepy portraits is only exceeded by your skill as an Agent.
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