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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1453
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Posted - 2015.09.06 14:18:00 -
[121] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Avvy wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: High sec is just there for you to get your feet wet it was never intended for people to live there indefinitely.
I disagree, the area is far too big if that was the intention. Check the number of systems that are not high sec and then let us know what is big and what is not. Yes, I know. But there are still far too many high-sec systems if it's just meant to be a temporary stop over.
when you get to a stage where you are complaining that there is not enough content and trying to pull activities from other space is an indication you have outlived highsec
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1453
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Posted - 2015.09.06 14:28:33 -
[122] - Quote
Avvy wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Avvy wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Don't be sucked into the mindset where you feel you need level 5 before you can play. Especially when starting out, don't bother with training anything to level 5 unless it's a prereq for something you want...
There are quite a few of them that are prerequisites. Name the level 5 prerequ that is keeping you from doing something or having fun in this game. I'm presently training for interceptors, so there are two I can think of straight away, evasive manoeuvring and the frigate hull. Already trained evasive manoeuvring to 5, but as my attributes are heavily set on intelligence I've remained learning defense, core, ecm/eccm type skills and navigation. So when I get around to altering the attributes to mainly perception with the remaining in willpower, I'll start training, turrets, and ship hulls again. The problem is that the skills change too frequently when you're a new player in terms of the attributes required.
if you need hulls then get small guns to lvl 5 which is about a week or so, then frigate and you open up a ton of new ships and even t1 ships are great with t2 weapons, interceptors is a pretty long train but you have enough ships to actually learn how to fly first while you get into interceptors
i dont get why people complain about the training times, when i started i was so overwelmed with flying what i had and having fun to worry about training times
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
174
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Posted - 2015.09.06 14:34:26 -
[123] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Avvy wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:Avvy wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: High sec is just there for you to get your feet wet it was never intended for people to live there indefinitely.
I disagree, the area is far too big if that was the intention. Check the number of systems that are not high sec and then let us know what is big and what is not. Yes, I know. But there are still far too many high-sec systems if it's just meant to be a temporary stop over. when you get to a stage where you are complaining that there is not enough content and trying to pull activities from other space is an indication you have outlived highsec
I'm not complaining as such, it's a discussion not a complaint. Discussions would be boring if everyone just agreed all the time.
The only real complaint would be the attribute system. Low-sec and null wouldn't help on that one.
Still loaded GW2 up again Friday night so got a few things to do there whilst I'm in training here. Before you say it I'm not complaining it was my choice. Got a few things I don't mind finishing off in GW2 anyway, so it's all good.
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Lan Wang
V I R I I Ineluctable.
1453
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Posted - 2015.09.06 14:37:21 -
[124] - Quote
i didnt mean you, it was a generalisation towards the amount of other people complain about those things
EVEALON Creative - Logo Design & Branding | Digital Design
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
174
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Posted - 2015.09.06 14:51:04 -
[125] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:i didnt mean you, it was a generalisation towards the amount of other people complain about those things
Ah, ok
But even those discussions can be useful sometimes. Just because it gets mentioned in the forums doesn't mean it will alter the game. Even a complaint doesn't have to be negative, although if it's made in such a way that it's not really open to discussion then it is.
Don't know if you agree with that, but it's time for me to log. There's a drink in one of these establishment around here with my name on it. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
761
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Posted - 2015.09.07 06:07:50 -
[126] - Quote
Avvy wrote: I'm presently training for interceptors, so there are two I can think of straight away, evasive manoeuvring and the frigate hull. Already trained evasive manoeuvring to 5, but as my attributes are heavily set on intelligence I've remained learning defense, core, ecm/eccm type skills and navigation. So when I get around to altering the attributes to mainly perception with the remaining in willpower, I'll start training, turrets, and ship hulls again.
The problem is that the skills change too frequently when you're a new player in terms of the attributes required.
Holy Cow you don't remapp for a focused remap like that when you are new. You keep your attribute points spread around so that you can train everything.
So you are training for interceptors. I asked where a level 5 skill was preventing you from doing something or having fun. First off racial frigate 5 does not take long. Second anything that can be done in a interceptor can be done in a T1 hull. I'm not going to say that interceptors aren't nice I'm just saying that you can tackle someone in a T1 frig and PvP in a T1 frig and honestly a new player really has no business flying an interceptor into PvP until he learns more about the game.
In this game ships are a tool to get a job done and a consumable tool at that. I'm not asking what tool that you can't fly. I'm asking what job can't you do.
I can tell you now that you are either a poor troll or you seriously do not have the right mindset for this game.
Either way the inability to sit in an interceptor is preventing your from participating in nothing so my question still remains. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
761
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Posted - 2015.09.07 06:12:04 -
[127] - Quote
Avvy wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote: High sec is just there for you to get your feet wet it was never intended for people to live there indefinitely.
I disagree, the area is far too big if that was the intention. You are disagreeing with what? Watch some dev videos read some old dev blogs and watch some old fanfest videos. You will see the devs say again and again that they design the game intentionally to push people out of high sec and into riskier areas of space.
You can disagree if you like but you've got nothing to back it up. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
761
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 06:18:40 -
[128] - Quote
Avvy wrote: Yes, I know.
But there are still far too many high-sec systems if it's just meant to be a temporary stop over.
I never said temporary stop over. I said it was not meant for you to "live" there indefinitely. Yes most players do come back to high sec often and for various reasons but I'm saying the game is intentionally designed to push you out of high sec after you learn the basics.
If you are sitting in high sec running missions or minning day after day you are missing most of this game and are in no position to judge it since you've not even seen 90+% of the game.
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
761
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Posted - 2015.09.07 06:36:32 -
[129] - Quote
Avvy wrote: The only real complaint would be the attribute system.
Again I will repeat post #115. In Eve you are supposed to have to make decisions that carry consequences and deal with the results of that.
If you are not happy with having making tough decisions and compromises then you won't be happy with this game.
The min/max, "must be level capped fully decked out in best in slot gear", can't play the game until my stats are perfect mentality has no place in this game. That mindset is from other MMOs that have different mechanics and different game designs and different intentions and they are not Eve.
You are not playing Eve. You are in Eve playing WoW or GW2 or FFXIV or any number of other MMOs that are all pretty much the same as each other but none of them resemble this game and none of their base concept translates over to this game.
If you try and play eve as if it were like those other games you are not going to have a good time here and don't blame Eve for that since you never really gave the game a shot. You are trying to play Eve as if it were those other games and when you find out it's not instead of learning the game and adapting to the mechanics you come to the forums to complain how it's different. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
175
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Posted - 2015.09.07 13:56:38 -
[130] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:Avvy wrote: The only real complaint would be the attribute system.
Again I will repeat post #115. In Eve you are supposed to have to make decisions that carry consequences and deal with the results of that. If you are not happy with having making tough decisions and compromises then you won't be happy with this game. The min/max, "must be level capped fully decked out in best in slot gear", can't play the game until my stats are perfect mentality has no place in this game. That mindset is from other MMOs that have different mechanics and different game designs and different intentions and they are not Eve. You are not playing Eve. You are in Eve playing WoW or GW2 or FFXIV or any number of other MMOs that are all pretty much the same as each other but none of them resemble this game and none of their base concept translates over to this game. If you try and play eve as if it were like those other games you are not going to have a good time here and don't blame Eve for that since you never really gave the game a shot. You are trying to play Eve as if it were those other games and when you find out it's not instead of learning the game and adapting to the mechanics you come to the forums to complain how it's different.
Thank you for your concern that this might not be the right game for me, but time will tell.
As for attributes even CCP doesn't think they add much to the game.
Attributes tend to be a hindrance at the start, but once you've been here a few years I doubt you hardly notice them as the training times are so long and by then you have most of the basic skills you need. |
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Harrison Tato
Immortalis Fratres Vacui Legio immortales CXCI
483
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Posted - 2015.09.07 16:27:35 -
[131] - Quote
Tsukino Stareine wrote:You've gotten into the habit of everything being handed to you, it's now very tough to get out of that mindset but you'll find that you become a much better gamer in general after you do paying for games that you can start enjoying in less than a year.
FIFY |
Zihao
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
50
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Posted - 2015.09.07 19:50:46 -
[132] - Quote
Oh it's just a year now, thank goodness. You trolls had me convinced it was 50mil sp in the other thread. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1396
|
Posted - 2015.09.07 20:54:01 -
[133] - Quote
Harrison Tato wrote:Tsukino Stareine wrote:You've gotten into the habit of everything being handed to you, it's now very tough to get out of that mindset but you'll find that you become a much better gamer in general after you do paying for games that you can start enjoying in less than a year. FIFY
Why would you keep playing if you weren't enjoying it? EVE isn't for everyone, CCP has acknowledged this. |
Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:12:10 -
[134] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:The min/max, "must be level capped fully decked out in best in slot gear", can't play the game until my stats are perfect mentality has no place in this game. Well, other than PVP.
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1224
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:28:32 -
[135] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:The min/max, "must be level capped fully decked out in best in slot gear", can't play the game until my stats are perfect mentality has no place in this game. Well, other than PVP. You are dead wrong. There are a million examples of successful newbros PVPing with low SP. If you can't figure out how to play without max skills then the skills aren't the problem - you are.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Johnny Riko
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
14
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Posted - 2015.09.08 00:34:05 -
[136] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:The min/max, "must be level capped fully decked out in best in slot gear", can't play the game until my stats are perfect mentality has no place in this game. Well, other than PVP.
That's ridiculous. I really don't understand this mentality. If it were the case then the people who top the killboards for all ships would have the most expensive faction/office modules in every slot. Eve PvP is much more than having the best ship/modules/skills.
I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
11657
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 00:49:29 -
[137] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:The min/max, "must be level capped fully decked out in best in slot gear", can't play the game until my stats are perfect mentality has no place in this game. Well, other than PVP. *cough*<------ishkur pilot had 6(ish) million skillpoints to his name at this point verses Est. skill points52 million and three years of gamplay experiance
patience ,willingness to accept guidance , and big mother****ing balls are all you need to pull something like that off
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 02:32:17 -
[138] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:patience ,willingness to accept guidance , and big mother****ing balls are all you need to pull something like that off A fully T2 fit Assault Frigate probably doesn't hurt.
But you're right. If you try hard enough, and long enough, you'll eventually find somebody anti-tanked enough with stupid to overcome all the advantages handed to them.
Johnny Riko wrote:Eve PvP is much more than having the best ship/modules/skills. It's also having the best links/drugs.
If PvP was just about having heart, determination and numbers, Brave would own half of nullsec. Eventually you're going to run out of n+1, and you're going to need to pony up some better gear if you want to win. Do you think it's a coincidence that RvB puts "Hey, downship for fights if you have to - don't be a ****" in their FAQ? Or that the Alliance Tournament needs rules about deadspace mods?
Cara Forelli wrote:There are a million examples of successful newbros PVPing with low SP. There's a million examples of newbros killwhoring on gatecamps, or F1-ing when the FC tells them to.
There's also a million examples of newbros getting their ISK pushed in when somebody with some bigger bling to throw at the fight decides to take down a fleet twice their size.
You can certainly participate in PvP with a two week old character. In the same way you could participate in the NFL. The difference is, I don't blame people for aiming a little higher than participation. |
Caladan Panzureborn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
7
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Posted - 2015.09.08 05:07:06 -
[139] - Quote
It's nice to see the discussion is still going, though where it's going? Not sure. I'm still playing the game. I've tried joining a few corps. No luck there yet on one that fits my needs. Mining still appeals to me as a way of making ISK so Industry V just has one day left on the timer. Then I'll have a couple other skills i'll need to get to IV to be able to hop in the Procurer. My current fun in the game has been looting battle wrecks in low sec and null sec for sexy T2 modules worth a ton of ISK(to me as a newb anyway). I've found the threat of getting killed while I try to get to the best wrecks pretty exciting. I've had some good fun evading the dudes that try to kill me (so far so good thank you Warp Stabs) and it's pretty satisfying getting in and out of an area intact and with a cargo bay full of loots. I've been fired on like four times and was able to get away each time though one guy got me down to like 20% hull in what seemed like a single volley before i got out of there. I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not. I made it in and out of Jita without a hitch. Sold everything I brought and with a decent amount of change in the bank, thought ok, I can fly the Vexor now if I feel like it. As I was heading home from Jita in the freighter, I came across a T2 or T3 Cruiser wreck just sitting their with no one around. I moseyed on over to it at a whopping 150 m/s lol and boom: cha ching! 344 million ISK worth of modules. Awesome. I wasn't about to warp back to Jita with the yellow suspect time going so i docked a jump away and waited it out. Once the timer was clear, nervously jumped back into Jita and docked again with no problem, though as I was docking, a freighter next to me exploded. Eek! Better him than me, I thought. Came away with another 340 million or so. Easy money. I do still want to get into traditional ship combat PvP and plan on training up my T1 frigate skills I need once the mining stuff is done I've also considered doing my battle wreck looting in my Vexor so if any one does come after me, instead of running I would put up a fight as it's usually just one or two ships that come after me, but I'm not so sure if that's a profitable way to go. But could be fun! As it is now, I'm using a cheaply fitted Imicus for it and it's been working well as it has a decent cargo hold and is small and fast enough and if anyone did catch me slippin', meh. Less than a mill to replace and back at it. |
Tsukino Stareine
Sock Robbers Inc. Low-Class
1400
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 12:27:59 -
[140] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:patience ,willingness to accept guidance , and big mother****ing balls are all you need to pull something like that off A fully T2 fit Assault Frigate probably doesn't hurt. But you're right. If you try hard enough, and long enough, you'll eventually find somebody anti-tanked enough with stupid to overcome all the advantages handed to them. Johnny Riko wrote:Eve PvP is much more than having the best ship/modules/skills. It's also having the best links/drugs. If PvP was just about having heart, determination and numbers, Brave would own half of nullsec. Eventually you're going to run out of n+1, and you're going to need to pony up some better gear if you want to win. Do you think it's a coincidence that RvB puts "Hey, downship for fights if you have to - don't be a ****" in their FAQ? Or that the Alliance Tournament needs rules about deadspace mods? Cara Forelli wrote:There are a million examples of successful newbros PVPing with low SP. There's a million examples of newbros killwhoring on gatecamps, or F1-ing when the FC tells them to. There's also a million examples of newbros getting their ISK pushed in when somebody with some bigger bling to throw at the fight decides to take down a fleet twice their size. You can certainly participate in PvP with a two week old character. In the same way you could participate in the NFL. The difference is, I don't blame people for aiming a little higher than participation.
You're just bad. That's all there is to it. |
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
8462
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:31:59 -
[141] - Quote
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:It's nice to see the discussion is still going, though where it's going? Not sure. I'm still playing the game. I've tried joining a few corps. No luck there yet on one that fits my needs. Mining still appeals to me as a way of making ISK so Industry V just has one day left on the timer. Then I'll have a couple other skills i'll need to get to IV to be able to hop in the Procurer. My current fun in the game has been looting battle wrecks in low sec and null sec for sexy T2 modules worth a ton of ISK(to me as a newb anyway). I've found the threat of getting killed while I try to get to the best wrecks pretty exciting. I've had some good fun evading the dudes that try to kill me (so far so good thank you Warp Stabs) and it's pretty satisfying getting in and out of an area intact and with a cargo bay full of loots. I've been fired on like four times and was able to get away each time though one guy got me down to like 20% hull in what seemed like a single volley before i got out of there. I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not. I made it in and out of Jita without a hitch. Sold everything I brought and with a decent amount of change in the bank, thought ok, I can fly the Vexor now if I feel like it. As I was heading home from Jita in the freighter, I came across a T2 or T3 Cruiser wreck just sitting their with no one around. I moseyed on over to it at a whopping 150 m/s lol and boom: cha ching! 344 million ISK worth of modules. Awesome. I wasn't about to warp back to Jita with the yellow suspect time going so i docked a jump away and waited it out. Once the timer was clear, nervously jumped back into Jita and docked again with no problem, though as I was docking, a freighter next to me exploded. Eek! Better him than me, I thought. Came away with another 340 million or so. Easy money. I do still want to get into traditional ship combat PvP and plan on training up my T1 frigate skills I need once the mining stuff is done I've also considered doing my battle wreck looting in my Vexor so if any one does come after me, instead of running I would put up a fight as it's usually just one or two ships that come after me, but I'm not so sure if that's a profitable way to go. But could be fun! As it is now, I'm using a cheaply fitted Imicus for it and it's been working well as it has a decent cargo hold and is small and fast enough and if anyone did catch me slippin', meh. Less than a mill to replace and back at it.
I know you used paragraphs but still...holy wall of text, Batman :)
[b]----
CONCORD arrested two n00bs yesterday, one was drinking battery acid, the other was eating fireworks. They charged one and let the other one off.[/b]
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Samuel Triptee
Frankenstuff
109
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Posted - 2015.09.08 12:47:16 -
[142] - Quote
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:It's nice to see the discussion is still going, though where it's going? Not sure. I'm still playing the game. I've tried joining a few corps. No luck there yet on one that fits my needs. Mining still appeals to me as a way of making ISK so Industry V just has one day left on the timer. Then I'll have a couple other skills i'll need to get to IV to be able to hop in the Procurer. My current fun in the game has been looting battle wrecks in low sec and null sec for sexy T2 modules worth a ton of ISK(to me as a newb anyway). I've found the threat of getting killed while I try to get to the best wrecks pretty exciting. I've had some good fun evading the dudes that try to kill me (so far so good thank you Warp Stabs) and it's pretty satisfying getting in and out of an area intact and with a cargo bay full of loots. I've been fired on like four times and was able to get away each time though one guy got me down to like 20% hull in what seemed like a single volley before i got out of there. I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not. I made it in and out of Jita without a hitch. Sold everything I brought and with a decent amount of change in the bank, thought ok, I can fly the Vexor now if I feel like it. As I was heading home from Jita in the freighter, I came across a T2 or T3 Cruiser wreck just sitting their with no one around. I moseyed on over to it at a whopping 150 m/s lol and boom: cha ching! 344 million ISK worth of modules. Awesome. I wasn't about to warp back to Jita with the yellow suspect time going so i docked a jump away and waited it out. Once the timer was clear, nervously jumped back into Jita and docked again with no problem, though as I was docking, a freighter next to me exploded. Eek! Better him than me, I thought. Came away with another 340 million or so. Easy money. I do still want to get into traditional ship combat PvP and plan on training up my T1 frigate skills I need once the mining stuff is done I've also considered doing my battle wreck looting in my Vexor so if any one does come after me, instead of running I would put up a fight as it's usually just one or two ships that come after me, but I'm not so sure if that's a profitable way to go. But could be fun! As it is now, I'm using a cheaply fitted Imicus for it and it's been working well as it has a decent cargo hold and is small and fast enough and if anyone did catch me slippin', meh. Less than a mill to replace and back at it.
Sounds like some fun!
Think I may try it sometime...
Have You Hugged Your Frigate Today?
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1227
|
Posted - 2015.09.08 13:31:25 -
[143] - Quote
Glad you're still around and having fun OP.
Caladan Panzureborn wrote:I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not. Just a word of caution. You've mixed up some info regarding ganking. "Freighters" in EVE are specific ship class, not just any hauling ship. They are enormous, slow, and have huge bays and lots of HP. Which is why they need to be carying a decent amount to make it worthwhile to suicide gank them (since it takes many catalysts or tornados). The thing you read about having a billion in cargo refers specifically to freighters. A T1 industrial is likely to be ganked for much less. I always use extreme caution if I'm carrying more than 100 mil in an industrial.
There are a few things you can do to improve your safety whilst hauling. See: insta-docks, insta-undocks, and the microwarpdrive-cloak trick.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Johnny Riko
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
16
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Posted - 2015.09.08 14:48:33 -
[144] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:patience ,willingness to accept guidance , and big mother****ing balls are all you need to pull something like that off A fully T2 fit Assault Frigate probably doesn't hurt. But you're right. If you try hard enough, and long enough, you'll eventually find somebody anti-tanked enough with stupid to overcome all the advantages handed to them. Johnny Riko wrote:Eve PvP is much more than having the best ship/modules/skills. It's also having the best links/drugs. If PvP was just about having heart, determination and numbers, Brave would own half of nullsec. Eventually you're going to run out of n+1, and you're going to need to pony up some better gear if you want to win. Do you think it's a coincidence that RvB puts "Hey, downship for fights if you have to - don't be a ****" in their FAQ? Or that the Alliance Tournament needs rules about deadspace mods? Cara Forelli wrote:There are a million examples of successful newbros PVPing with low SP. There's a million examples of newbros killwhoring on gatecamps, or F1-ing when the FC tells them to. There's also a million examples of newbros getting their ISK pushed in when somebody with some bigger bling to throw at the fight decides to take down a fleet twice their size. You can certainly participate in PvP with a two week old character. In the same way you could participate in the NFL. The difference is, I don't blame people for aiming a little higher than participation.
Wow, you're truly ludicrous. I never said PvP was about "heart, dedication & numbers". My point was that a good pvp'er will know how to fit their ship, what type of ships it can engage, and how best to engage. Hence why Brave isn't the best Alliance in the game.
Eve isn't a game where you pay more isk to have a bigger sword to swing at people, every ship/module/tactic has hard and soft counters. In my experience, the best pvpers/alliances know how to exploit these counters to give themselves the best chance of victory.
I wanna join up. I think I got what it takes to be a Citizen.
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Caladan Panzureborn
Aliastra Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2015.09.08 15:13:49 -
[145] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:Glad you're still around and having fun OP. Caladan Panzureborn wrote:I bought a T1 Freighter to haul all my crap around and once I got about 100 mill worth of stuff together I decided to make the trip to Jita to see what it would be like and with the hope of selling everything quickly. Again, i found the possibility of danger pretty exciting and wasn't sure if any Jita Gankers would make a go for my ship. I had read that you need to have a cargo hold worth of a least a billion ISK for them to go for ya, not sure if that's the case or not. Just a word of caution. You've mixed up some info regarding ganking. "Freighters" in EVE are specific ship class, not just any hauling ship. They are enormous, slow, and have huge bays and lots of HP. Which is why they need to be carying a decent amount to make it worthwhile to suicide gank them (since it takes many catalysts or tornados). The thing you read about having a billion in cargo refers specifically to freighters. A T1 industrial is likely to be ganked for much less. I always use extreme caution if I'm carrying more than 100 mil in an industrial. There are a few things you can do to improve your safety whilst hauling. See: insta-docks, insta-undocks, and the microwarpdrive-cloak trick.
Cara, thanks a lot for the info and clarification. Yes, a T1 industrial is what I meant. I'll look into the dock tricks. I must've gotten lucky not getting ganked then from the sound of it.
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
95
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Posted - 2015.09.08 15:19:25 -
[146] - Quote
Johnny Riko wrote:Wow, you're truly ludicrous. I've also got it on good authority I'm "bad" too.
Quote:My point was that a good pvp'er will know how to fit their ship, what type of ships it can engage, and how best to engage. But a "good pvp'er" never has to decide "I can't handle this fight because I'm not skilled/fit enough"?
Quote:Eve isn't a game where you pay more isk to have a bigger sword to swing at people That is precisely what EVE is.
Think you're doing well in your Kestrel? Spend some ISK, upgrade to a Worm. Think your Worm is hot ****? Spend some ISK, upgrade to a Svipul. Think your Svipul is unbeatable tech? Spend some ISK, upgrade to ....
You might not be able to buy a ship that can kill everything, but let's not pretend that ISK can't buy wins. ___________________________________________________________________
There are tasks that don't take millions of SP to do. Even more can be started with low SP. Caladan's wandering salvage service is proof enough of that (grats on the cruiser find btw ).
But I don't get why people insist that all things in EVE can be accomplished with some player knowledge and a little old fashioned gumption. It's not true. You're going to need SP and ISK if you want to compete.
ISK is gated by in game activity. Sure, you could grind out missions for your ISK like most do. Or, like Caladan, you could try something new, get a bit lucky and make your fortune that way.
SP is a different animal. It's just "How much money have I given CCP?". It doesn't teach you anything, it doesn't prepare you for what's ahead, there's no reasoning or purpose to it. That little "Ding! Skill training completed." is just a confirmation that X days/weeks/months ago, you double-clicked a skill.
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Azda Ja
Green Skull LLC
4339
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Posted - 2015.09.08 15:40:33 -
[147] - Quote
The problem here is people are operating at the extremes. Yes, ISK can buy you a crazy good/borderline OP ship (looking at you Orthrus). What, I and most other PvPers are saying isn't that ISK and the SP is a non-factor; but rather that people make too big a deal about it. Yes, chances are you'll die going up a blingy ship with OP bonuses. But with know how and good old fashion gumption, you can drastically increase your chances of success, and get ridiculously awesome kills through good decision making and knowledge. Cara for example has killed a Rattlesnake in a bomber, by testing fits and tactics with yours truly and then having the balls to tackle one in game. One of Ralph's old corp mates killed a Marauder in an Ishkur at a couple months old.
These things may not be the norm, but that's because most people don't put in the effort to get those same kills. You have to actually step up to the plate to do it. It's not enough to just lol-tackle anything that moves and expect to win. Research and understanding the mechanics at play are one's primary concern when learning how to PvP. One's wallet balance and SP amount, while not irrelevant, takes a backseat to those first two. THAT is the point I and others are making.
If a newbie wants to get into the game and PvP. They should just go and do it, instead of bitching bout SP on the forums, because all the SP in the world is not going to help them when they're charging head on into an Artillery Tornado in a deadspace Svipul.
Because sometimes you die. And sometimes we are why. GSLLC is Recruiting.
Grrr I tell you. Grrr.
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
95
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Posted - 2015.09.08 16:21:48 -
[148] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:One of Ralph's old corp mates killed a Marauder in an Ishkur at a couple months old. That would be the one he linked to. Ironic, that he was using what I can only imagine was a focus trained AF toon (I can guarantee has a dozen skills to V) as an argument you don't need SP.
And I agree with the idea that a dramatic skill imbalance can overcome an ISK/SP imbalance. But that works both ways, and unless you plan on spending your life enforcing the CODE you're going to have to expect that you're going to get into a fight with somebody who knows what they're doing.
But extremes aren't the only issue. There's also the people who say "It's only 3 months to train" (i.e. the ~6M SP that Ralph says the AF pilot had) as if that wasn't an eternity for a character that's only 15 hours old. Forgetting where and how you start in the game is easily as big an issue.
There's also the people who see character age as a right of passage, which gives them a power they don't want to give up. For as much as people argue that SP aren't important, suggesting that the system should be done away with certainly brings out the fangs.
Maybe the one I find the most aggravating is portraying the newbie roles as something desirable. Those roles which, to be fair, need to be done - but nobody wants to do. So you get the newbro to Logi/EWAR/Suicide Tackle, because they don't really have any choice in the matter. It's all they've got SP for.
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Cara Forelli
Green Skull LLC
1227
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Posted - 2015.09.08 19:48:30 -
[149] - Quote
Aerasia wrote:And I agree with the idea that a dramatic skill imbalance can overcome an ISK/SP imbalance. But that works both ways, and unless you plan on spending your life enforcing the CODE you're going to have to expect that you're going to get into a fight with somebody who knows what they're doing. I can (but won't because of forum rules) link you a dozen kills I've had, completely solo, against older players in more expensive or larger ships. All within my first year of playing. I earned them by thinking outside the box. For instance, I put a neut on a breacher and killed a faction fit daredevil by capping him out. That Daredevil could have killed most any Breacher fit easily but by fitting unexpectedly I turned the tables on a much older player, with much better skills, in a much more expensive ship, with much stronger natural bonuses.
A while back I took on a 2008 player in a Thorax v. Thorax fight. He outmatched me in skills but I won by loading null and scram-kiting. I correctly guessed that he would underestimate me and use void, counting on his skills for higher DPS. I took advantage of my knowledge of his fit - mine was slightly faster because of the choices I made when fitting it. I exploited this to win the fight.
You don't need purple or green mods to win fights. You don't need max skills. You just need a little creativity and forethought. Will that work every time? No. There's plenty of potential engagements you should not take. Can't take a fight? Find a different one that fits your engagement profile. Or find a way to change your fit or your plan to win.
Aerasia wrote:But extremes aren't the only issue. There's also the people who say "It's only 3 months to train" (i.e. the ~6M SP that Ralph says the AF pilot had) as if that wasn't an eternity for a character that's only 15 hours old. Forgetting where and how you start in the game is easily as big an issue. I do kind of agree with this part. The first few weeks are a struggle. The combination of low SP, zero experience, and lack of acquaintances makes it difficult to PVP without getting discouraged by losses. However, only the first can be solved through skill-queue online. The others require you to play. Passively skilling for a year will not make you any better at PVP and you will still lose your first engagements due to inexperience.
Aerasia wrote:Maybe the one I find the most aggravating is portraying the newbie roles as something desirable. Those roles which, to be fair, need to be done - but nobody wants to do. So you get the newbro to Logi/EWAR/Suicide Tackle, because they don't really have any choice in the matter. It's all they've got SP for. I actually love all three of those roles and volunteer for one of them in 90% of my fleet activities despite having the SP to do whatever I want. I find them much more interesting than DPS, especially in larger gangs. Everyone has different taste.
What I find aggravating is people who discourage newbies from even trying to PVP. Yes, in the beginning it will be difficult. There's a lot to learn and there's a lot to skill. But there's also plenty of fun fights and exciting victories to be had. Just because you are at disadvantage doesn't mean you will lose, and it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. It means you need to find another way to win. And the "SP gap" doesn't last nearly as long as people make it out to.
Not being able to compete with vets is a myth. I did it many times when I was new, solo. I have friends that did it when they were new, solo. I've even had new players get the better of me since then, solo.
So stop telling them it can't be done. It can be done.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Aerasia
Republic University Minmatar Republic
95
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Posted - 2015.09.08 20:25:05 -
[150] - Quote
Cara Forelli wrote:What I find aggravating is people who discourage newbies from even trying to PVP. Which I'm sure I'm guilty of, even if indirectly and certainly unintentionally. I'm a big fan of organizations like RvB, which have a goal of not just creating content but putting it within a competitive structure. I'm just not sadistic enough to encourage somebody at 2M SP to go try their hand at Solo. Or even try and convince them they're an indispensable part of their corp fleet.
Quote:And the "SP gap" doesn't last nearly as long as people make it out to. That depends a bit on how you measure.
Take Ralph's friend in the AF. Having all the skills in place for that at only 6M SP seems out of place for an actual newbro, so I'm assuming that's an alt. And if so, that means the training queue was probably laser focused on Frigate combat.
A single toon player has to worry about replacing their ship in a way that alts don't. And there aren't a lot of ISK making opportunities in a frigate, so a new player is going to be naturally drawn to the obvious paths - Mining Barges and Mission Ravens. Those eat up millions of SP, and you need your income stream in place before you go losing AFs to Marauder gank attempts at 30M+ a pop.
You're right though, the raw gap is a lot less than it feels when you're starting out. I've been there, done that. Combat readiness seems impossibly far away when you're sitting in a Meta 0 fit Frigate with some modules only having just become available. But as I've said here, and every time the topic comes up, I see no reason that gap even has to exist. I'm not a fan of arbitrary time barriers.
Quote:Passively skilling for a year will not make you any better at PVP and you will still lose your first engagements due to inexperience. And this is part of why. I certainly don't expect somebody to AFK-skill for a year and come out of the gate a champ. But I also know that learning the ropes of PvP takes a lot less time than getting the SP for whatever role you want. |
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